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F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 50 04 Dec 2000
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet community | "FidoNews" |
| _ | 1-714-639-0377 1:1/23 |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | |
| | | \ \\ | Editor: Warren Bonner |
| | (*) | \ )) | editor@fidonews.org |
| |__U__| / \// | fidonews@netscape.net |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
ZONE ONE COORDINATOR ELECTION DISCUSSIONS THIS WEEK
Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL ................................................ 1
-=+Editorial+=- .......................................... 1
2. GUEST EDITORIAL .......................................... 3
-=+GUEST EDITORALS+=- .................................... 3
3. LAND OF THE LOST NODES ................................... 7
*****NavyNode***** ....................................... 7
4. LETTERS TO THE EDITOR .................................... 9
-=+LETTERS TO EDITOR+=- .................................. 9
5. ARTICLES ................................................. 12
-=+ARTICLES+=- ........................................... 12
6. COLUMNS .................................................. 16
-=*+DALLAS' COLUMN+*=- ................................... 16
-=*+JANIS' COLUMN+*=- .................................... 23
-=*+ROSS' COLUMN+*=- ..................................... 29
+*RUTH ARGUST'S COLUMN*+ ................................. 38
7. GETTING TECHNICAL ........................................ 45
8. WE GET EMAIL ............................................. 49
-=+ECHO MESSAGES OF NOTE+=- .............................. 49
9. NET HUMOR ................................................ 54
-=*Jokes for today*=- .................................... 54
10. QUESTION OF THE WEEK .................................... 56
-=+THIS WEEKS QUESTIONS+=- ............................... 56
11. NOTICES ................................................. 59
===+NOTICE+=== ........................................... 59
12. FIDONET BY INTERNET ..................................... 61
13. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .................................... 66
FIDONEWS INFORMATION ..................................... 66
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 1 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
EDITORIAL
=================================================================
Hi friends in Fidoland...er, fight-o-land! I hope you all have your
sense of humor caps on this week! Wow... what a week it has been.
As ol' Clem Cadidalhopper says onna hot day, "Boy-howdy it's hotter'n
a fire-cracker"! Well the temperature in the echoes your editor has to
work with, plus phone calls and netmails, indicates it is about to
reach "RED-LINE" warning level. Everyone is excited, the adrenaline
level is high, and the feistiest sysops already have their contest
gloves on and are swinging. I just hope that EVERYONE comes together
when the election is over, and not act like Floridians... oops 'scuse
me Andrea, honest I wasn't talking about you. <G>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FRIENDS
Love starts with a smile, grows with a kiss, and
ends with a tear.
Don't cry over anyone who won't cry over you.
If love isn't a game, why are there so many players?
Good friends are hard to find, harder
to leave, and impossible to forget.
You can only go as far as you push.
Actions speak louder than words.
The hardest thing to do is watch the one you love,
love somebody else.
Don't let the past hold you back, you're missing
the good stuff.
Life's short. If you don't look around once in a
while you might miss it.
A best friend is like a four leaf clover, hard to
find and lucky to have.
Some people make the world special just by being in it.
Best friends are the siblings God forgot to give us.
When it hurts to look back, and you're scared to look
ahead, you can look beside you and your best friend
will be there.
True friendship never ends.
Friends are forever.
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 2 4 Dec 2000
Good friends are like stars....You don't always see
them, but you know they are always there.
Don't frown. You never know who is falling in love
with your smile.
What do you do when the only person who can make
you stop crying is the person who made you cry?
Nobody is perfect until you fall in love with them.
Everything is okay in the end. If it's not okay,
then it's not the end.
Most people walk in and out of your life, but only
friends leave footprints in your heart.
Send this on to everyone special in your life,
even the people who really make you mad sometimes.
Remember, every minute spent angry is sixty seconds
of wasted happiness.
~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 3 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
GUEST EDITORIAL
=================================================================
By: Dave Hamilton, Aurora Exploratoria (229/622)
To: Warren Bonner
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Answering a question about the election choice offered to R17 sysops,
RC12 Darrell Salter responded:
They don't. R17, like many Regions, believe in *C partisanship. They
couldn't care less about Fidonet sysops except as a manipulative tool
to get what they want. The R17 Good Ole Boys prop up their own Good
Ole Boy in return for favour and power. Now they're hoping the Good
Ole Boys at the RC level will prop him up as Z1C. That's why they
advertise him as the best of the Good Ole Boys. He is. He didn't even
flinch at selling out the sysops with P4, just like Ross, and both
quickly and proudly exclaimed 'What a Good Ole Boy am I'. Has nothing
to do with the choice of sysops. Whichever one is elected will serve
the RCs and the RCs will serve them. Watch what happens, especially
for those that have helped them perform the rape of the sysops.
Dallas claims he'll do away with the system that sees ZC appoint RC
who in turn appoints ZC. He'll never do that. He's into acquiring
power not relinquishing it. Dallas is into manipulation and will use
every tool available to him, especially Pee4. It's been his modus
operandi as long as I've known him. That's where he gets his kicks.
That's what makes Fidonet "fun" for him. I suspect he secretly
despises sysops and wants only to lord over them. He'll be positively
gleeful at the prospect of being an RC-elected Z1C. Once he's there,
he'll be just like Satti, and it'll be eons before we're rid of him.
Ross is nowhere near as intelligent as Dallas. Ross is a yes-man
claiming to represent sysops but actually doesn't represent anyone
that doesn't approve of him. He'll say just about any thing to any one
to get the approval his sorry, frightened ego needs. He is deathly
afraid of Dallas and I suspect he craves approval, perhaps because he
was ignored as a child and is seeking that approval vicariously
through Fidonet. Dallas knows this and will continue as Ross' father
figure.
Both are extremely dangerous *C-for-lifers that will choke the life
out of this network in Zone 1 if elected by their RC buddies. Their
goals are identical ...
Getting what they want at the expense of the sysops. They both see
themselves as superior sysops, and let's face it, most RCs do. Their
reasons are different and have nothing to do with the betterment of
Fidonet and it's sysops. One's a manipulator, one's a yes-man. Neither
one has a shred of integrity where Fidonet sysops are concerned. I
wouldn't trust either one of them. What they both have going for them
is that most sysops don't care if they are truly represented or not.
Pee4 saw to that many years ago by giving the RCs the big stick to use
against any sysop that rose up to challenge them. Remember, we just
recently saw 2 RCs, one of them Dallas, pick up that stick and use it
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 4 4 Dec 2000
against any sysop that dared to exercise a choice.
Look for more of the same in the future.
Ross the yes-man quickly sold out the sysops and fell in line. One
region and one RC alone has demonstrated any spine, and that has
brought onto them P4 threats of excommunication and a carefully
orchestrated hate-mongering campaign. Such is the P4-era of Fidonet,
the one Tom Jennings objected to so strenuously, and it'll get much
worse soon. Watch for it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Gary Gilmore
To: Ruth Argust
----------------------------------------------------------------------
RA> I have not jumped to =any= candidate's defense in this election.
Of course not. You're too busy trying to beat up on all of them. You
seem to have all the answers, but you declined to be a candidate for
the Z1C position. If you truely know how it should all work, then one
would think that you'd be more than happy to help our hobby by
volunteering to lead. Of course, I also respect anyone's decision to
participate as much or as little as they like, but don't hold a lot of
respect for those that can tell everyone how it should be done while
standing on the sidelines. To those types, I can only say "Show us
how it should be done by running for the position yourself".
I have great respect for all the candidates for being willing to take
the unfounded accusations, tarring, implications, character
assasinations and general miserable attitudes of some here just for
the "honor" of VOLUNTEERING, not actually DOING the job yet, but
taking all this crap just for VOLUNTEERING. Then they'll have two
years of being beat up all over the Fidonet echoes when they don't
serve the whims of each and every individual. (That "what's in it for
ME" or "what have you done for ME" syndrome. Gosh, what an honor.
They probably ALL deserve to be Z1C just for putting up with it. No
where in policy, or any other Fidonet document, does it state or imply
that "Those that run for any office in Fidonet shall subject
themselves to be covered in flaming dogshit, have their parentage
questioned, be lied about and have to answer each question to the
satisfaction of each and every person", but that's what happens. Some
of the same people that would have poo-pooed what Clinton did as "none
of our business" would hold a Z1C candidate (someone who doesn't have
control of taxes or nuclear weapons) to a much, much higher standard.
It's a no-win situation, and we wonder why ZCs retreat, or quit. Hmmm,
can't imagine why.
My "defense" of Janis wasn't a defense, it was pointing out what YOU
were on about. Let's see...
1) Janis mentions FileGate in her lists of activities. 2) You state
that FDNs aren't Fidonet. You say this a few times. 3) You then start
to ask leading questions about FileGate stuff.
{I say something here, which you call "defense".)
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 5 4 Dec 2000
4) You then toss up an old conflict you had with Janis regarding the
FileGate. 4a) When some question you about it, you basically state
"Well, SHE brought it up first". Cheesy.
Hmmm... Seems you were using your line of questioning not because of
concerns for the ZC position, but as a weapon to "get even" for some
past event which you harbor a grudge over. Truely honorable.
I too have had disagreements with Janis WRT the FileGate. However, I
don't hold a grudge over them. I'm not going to use that against her,
because I feel she's a good candidate. (Indeed, I nominated Janis
because there were only 2 "real" candidates IMHO, and the rest were
nominated "in spite" or because someone thought they were being funny.
I don't take the ZC position lightly enough to play those games with
nominees.) I wanted to see a wider playing field and more choices.
Perhaps others, instead of stamping their feet and crying "THIS
ELECTION IS POOPY AND WE'RE NOT GOING TO PLAY AND WE'RE GOING TO TELL
OUR MOMMY ON YOU <pout pout>", should have nominated candidates that
they believed in, and we'd have an even larger choice, and a more
varied ballot. That didn't happen, so oh well. <shrug>
I've had disagreements with Dallas, though I think he's a good
candidate. I'm not going to hold a grudge and use this time to beat
him up to get even for something in the past. I know that, if he's
elected, we'll have differences, which I'm willing to work
with/around/to change.
I've had disagreements with Ross, though I think he's a good
candidate. I'm also not going to hold a grudge and use this time to
beat him up to "get even".I know that, if he's elected, we'll have
differences, which I'm willing to work with/around/to change.
Point being, *I* can have differences with the elected ZC without
trying to sabatoge them in the election. Differences are a part of
nature. Being able to deal with them on a rational and honest level
are part of being an adult.
Now, let's take your line of questioning. You're were obviously
leading up to a "get even" sort of thing. Let your grudges go, and
ask yourself "will candidate X be good for the good of Fidonet as a
whole?". I think they all would be, with varying degrees of how
they'll do it. The ZC is but one leader, your RC is another, and the
RCs will balance out the ZC. No renegade ZC will be able to do much
if your RC (and the other RCs) are bucking them on the behalf of their
regions.
To paraphrase "ask not what your ZC will do for you, as what you can
do for Fidonet". What have -you- done for Fidonet, Ruth? What's your
legacy? If you're better and have done more than these three
candidates, then by all means be holier-than-thou if that's what you
want. All of these people have volunteered to do things "above and
beyond" those asked of Joe Average Sysop to help better the hobby, or
at least a higher level of resonsibility in it. I commend them for
that, and I thank them for being willing to parade around with a huge
target on their backs so people like you can shoot arrows at it.
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 6 4 Dec 2000
I have no problems with any of the candidates, and look forward to the
decision of my region as to who they want to lead the zone, no matter
which person it is.
--gary
~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 7 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
LAND OF THE LOST NODES
=================================================================
(14725) Thu 30 Nov 00 9:25p Rcvd: Sat 2 Dec 9:22a
By: SHANNON TALLEY
To: WARREN BONNER
Re: Navy?
St: Rcvd
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WB>I wasn't seeking an official declaration, just an ARTICLE exalting
the lifestyle of a sailor on a technically equipped ship, at sea doing
what most sysops do at home land side. Would be interesting to know
how the computer time is allotted, and what your duties are. What is
your rate? How old are ya? Do you do two year stints between xfers?
Can you get the area/base/sta/ship you choose in xfers? I wasn't
looking for mil. secrets about the ship at all... they are most likely
available in Mil.com anyway. <G>
=============================================
Hi Warren!
I'll try and answer these to the best of my ability. I'm writing this
using DOS Edit on my personal laptop using Bluewave. I connect to the
ships network using a P266/NT based computer and software specially
configured to the ship's system. We can't install anything special on
the server simply due to the possibility that some sailor might give
the network a virus. It is a very logical security precaution.
Bandwidth is somewhat limited, but I can't go into details regarding
our bandwidth's capabilities or limitations. I download a QWK file
from my BBS at www.fidotel.com / telnet.fidotel.com. I've got a simple
way to download QWK via HTML on my BBS. It's VERY handy. Simply click
a URL on my QWK page, and it creates a QWK file and it's automatically
Emailed it to me.
I am an "Intelligence Specialist First Class" (E6). Due to my
occupation, I have unfettered access to the Internet. I spend most of
my day reading material generated on other networks. Some of my time
is spent reading CNN Emails I have sent to me as well as doing
research on some news sites. I really enjoy the "White House Press
Releases" as they are distributed in Echomail.
I'm 33, and I've been in the Navy nearly 14 years. I've been assigned
to an F14 Squadron (jets), Naval Special Warfare (SEALs), Instructor
Duty, and the ANZIO is my second ship. In "my" occupation we serve 3
years at an over-seas job or ship, and 3 years stateside (shore) duty.
I have 2 years left on the ANZIO and 3 1/2 years shore duty and I will
be eligible for retirement. So far, I have received orders everywhere
I have requested. I am in a small and very manageable occupation, so
we usually get what we want (as long as the request isn't unreasonable
or outside our standard sea/shore rotation).
Basically I am an information manager. I funnel the right information
to the right people which helps tactical commanders make sound
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 8 4 Dec 2000
tactical decisions.
The crew has unfettered access to Email unless they have abused Email
in some way. Internet access is available to the crew certain times
of the day or night depending on bandwidth availability or
restrictions. We have a general lounge with several computers
available for Email and games. Most crew members have a computer
available to them in their work center. Everyone who wants to send
and receive Email has a computer available to them.
When I first came in the Navy, Email was never heard of. I had used
Fidonet before and thought Email was just a "dream" in the Navy. The
fact is, it has changed the way many of us function. "NOW" when I go
to sea for a long period of time, I have my bills forwarded to me here
on the ship. I then connect to my bank and write online checks which
my bank mails to my creditors (for only 5.00$ per month). I receive
voicemail and faxes to my 800 number using Efax.com which are then
forwarded to my Email account here on the ship. I can also "Send"
faxes via Email using Efax. Technology has made going to sea much more
bearable than what it used to be. "Instant" mail has made staying in
touch with our families so much easier.
The true benefit of all this technology was that I would often record
a voice message on the computer and attach it to Email and mail it to
my daughter. She would reply by leaving a message at my 800 number. I
could listen to her say, "I love miss you daddy". It would often
bring a tear to my eye as I was trying to do my job while operating
off the coast Yugoslavia in the Adriatic Sea.
I realize most of this is kind of jumbled thoughts... poorly
organized... I just don't have allot of time out here to sit and write
a thoughtful page. Please take this, and take some literary liberty
with it and see if you can make it a little more coherent. Also -
please run spell check.. this DOS edit doesn't have it... :)
Thank you Warren! Shannon
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 --- Platinum Xpress/Win/WINServer v3.0pr5 *
Origin: FidoTel on the Web! www.fidotel.com, Virginia Beach!!
(1:275/311)
~~~~~~~~~~END~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 9 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
=================================================================
By: Lesley-Dee Dylan, Leftover Hippies (250/525)
To: Warren Bonner
Re: Snooze submission
----------------------------------------------------------------------
MY OPINIONS ON THE Z1C CANDIDATES:
THE BENEVOLENT ELFLORD Dallas Hinton - This guy believes that he knows
what his region wants, and needs, and he will take care of it for
them. He believes he is benevolent. Hebelieves he knows best. He
believes that it is in the best interest of the sysops of Fido that
the existing administrative structure and power of Fido is taken care
of in all cases, even if it means losing a few sysops along the way.
His region in Western Canada should not be required to hold any
elections, because the sysops of his region do not want them, and he
knows this because hedetermines what the sysops of his region want. If
The Benevolent Elflord is elected as Z1C, he will >know< our needs are
that we never be bothered with anything devisive or stressful like
democracy everagain.
THE WOULD-BE ELFLORD Janis Kracht - This gal believes just about
everything Dallas believes, withoutthe part about benevolence. She
was trained by Elflord-for-Life Martin Belcke, who recently resigned
his Elflord position in Region 11, turning the reins overto his best
buddy Gary Gilmore. In five months, Gary has not been able to
"manage" to pull an election together (his latest excuse is that there
is a Z1Celection on, so the region cannot have an election at the same
time - didn'tstop Region 12). Janis turns to Gary for help on all
matters that are over her head, which is just about everything. Gary
is the asshole who filed a policy complaint against Net 163 for
providing a node number to a node in Malaysia when there was no other
way for him to be in Fido. Janis is expected to lean on Gary for
support for a while, then get full of herself and throw him off. When
she figures out that she is not capable of handling the position, and
doesneed help after all, she will turn to Dallas Hinton, and he will
end up controlling the zone. Since Janis objects strongly to any hint
that Region 11 should have an election for RC, do not expect to every
be bothered with an election for Z1C again if she wins.
THE KISS-ASS ELFLORD Ross Cassell - This mail mover does not see a
conflict of interest between mailmoving and nodelist clerking. He
believed that the zone should have been allowed to have a one-sysop,
one-vote, non-electoral college, direct vote for the Z1C position, but
backed down on his position as soon as Dallas Hinton saidno and then
Ross changed his vote. This is what we can expect from Ross
throughout his term as Z1C. At the end of his two-year term, Ross
Cassell can be depended upon to try to hold an election for Z1C. If
Dallas Hinton still wants to be Z1C, then we will have an election, so
that Dallas can try to grab the reins of power. If Dallas Hinton has
decided that it is better to be the puppet master behind the Z1C, and
let Ross take all the flack, while Dallas holds all the power, then we
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 10 4 Dec 2000
have no chance in hell of ever having a Z1C election again.
My suggestion is that the first place vote go to Ross, and the second
place vote to Dallas. Janis is the biggest threat to Fido I have seen
in a long time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Michael Grant To: Ross
Cassell Re: Questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Ross;
A little clarification on a point or two, if you please...
MG> 1. Will you work actively as Z1C to bring about changes to the
Fidonet P-4.07 policy document? If these efforts produce a palatable
document for the majority of members of Zone 1, will you present
it to the other Zone coordinators as a possible new policy document
for all of Fidonet?
RC> No. If we went this route, the other zones would see this as
a ZONE1 authored document. Rather we get all zones to send
representativces to a committee of sorts.
It is my opinion (without any proof, I readily admit) that it is
mainly Zone 1 that desires change, and that the will does not exist in
other zones to change the document. What steps do you think you could
take to confirm or deny this from within the ZCC? Would you take the
other zone coordinators at their word or would you seek opinion from
individual sysops in other zones, perhaps via an independant poll?
MG> If the other Zones seem opposed or indifferent to it, will you
then work to have it adopted as Zone 1 policy?
RC> As suggested by myself earlier, I would favor the RC> creation of
a Z1 policy document.
Would you prefer to first attempt making a network-wide change to the
P-4.07 document over drafting a Zone 1 policy?
MG> Would you attempt to remove any RC whom you discovered was going
against the wishes of his or her region, if that region had no recall
mechanism? What criteria would you consider a valid one for such a
removal?
RC> Not unilaterally. I would consult with the members of that
region to find out whats going on, what they want et al?
Would your consultation be mainly weighted by the sysops of the
region, or would you also consult the RCC? Can you state in some form
of a percentage basis if you consulted both, what the ratio of weight
of consideration you would lend to each group?
Thank You.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 11 4 Dec 2000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 12 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
ARTICLES
=================================================================
By: Steve Quarrella
To: ZC Candidates
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I think George brings up a good point to address. What are your
thoughts on this one?
* Forwarded from '** FTSC_PUBLIC'
* Originally by George Roberts, 1:220/10
* Originally to Leonard Erickson
* Originally dated Wed 29 Nov 2000 10:52P
-*- Forwarded message follows: -*-
-=> Leonard Erickson wrote to George Roberts <=-
-=> Quoting George Roberts to Steve Quarrella <=-
GR> I believe that the ideal would be that ANYONE who has a POTS line
be listed in the nodelist based on geographic area, and that
anyone who is ION be listed in a completely seperate region. That
way people could easily see that the people were ION based on
their node number.
LE> Two problems. First, "net" numbers *aren't* as closely tied to
region numbers as some folks think.
I understand that.
LE> Second, a number of people get *really* irate at the idea of
"forcing" ION nodes into different nets.
Well, I wasn't stating that we should *force* people into the ION net,
just that if someone was applying for a node # in Fidonet, they could
be placed in an ION net for ease of getting them set up. Do you
realize that it took me weeks to get into Fido? Not because the
people who I was contacting weren't helpful, because they definately
were. It's because there is NO WHERE that states HOW to get into
Fidonet if you are an Internet Only node.
I had to happen across someone who gave me point access and then route
netmails to people I thought could help.
Obviously, someone who is ION with an existing node number would not
be forced to switch nets. I'm just talking for ease of bringing new
sysops into Fidonet. In case people haven't noticed, Fidonet's
numbers are slipping... yet people are putting up telnet BBSes
everyday. Why aren't we getting these people quickly and easily into
Fidonet?
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 13 4 Dec 2000
Regards,
George A. Roberts IV, email: groberts@nexusbbs.net Developer, Nexus
Bulletin Board System http://www.nexusbbs.net/ *
telnet://bbs.nexusbbs.net
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: David Calafrancesco
To: all candidates
Re: questions for the candidates...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello all!
I haven't seen any platforms from any of you as of yet so we need to
ask some questions to get the measure of you as potential ZCs.
1) Are you willing to bind yourself to only invoking P4.07 to solve a
problem rather than prevent someone from doing what they feel needs to
be done? Examples would be using P4.07 to force a node into a local
geographic net against their will when they want to be listed
elsewhere and have an NC/RC willing to have the listing etc...
2) Are you willing to bind yourself to accepting the will of the
members of a region in selecting their own RC (eg sysop voting in a
region)?
3) In Region 13 we have a local election policy that allows for a
recall vote for RC, will you bind yourself to accept the results of
such a recall should it ever be needed?
4) What experience do you have working with people you disagree with?
4a) Can you work with them without losing your temper? 4b) Have you
lost your temper working with people you found disagreeable, if so,
what happened and what were the circumstances?
5) What circumstances (other than a dead telenumber) in this day and
age are sufficient to toast a node's number? 5a) Do you support
leaving a 'toasted' node in the nodelist pending their appeals except
in the very rare case of there being demonstrable harm to the network
if the node is left in the nodelist pending the appeal?
6) Do you have any other duties in FIDO? 6a) Will they conflict with
your being the ZC? 6a1) if so, what do you plan to do about them?
7) Do you feel that P4.07 needs to be fixed? 7a) If so, in what ways?
7a1) What do you feel you can do to bring about change?
8) What do you feel should be done to market this hobby to potential
new customers?
9) Do you support the inclusion of IP Only nodes? 9a) Do you support
IP Only nodes in coordinator positions? 9b) Do you support the
creation of an IP Only region or at least an IP Only net? 9c) Do you
agree that any node in north america (at least) on the internet is
local to every other internet node and as such could band themselves
together into a net if they so desire?
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 14 4 Dec 2000
10) What techincal changes should be made in FIDO to make it more
stable and open to potential new members?
Thanks...
Dave Calafrancesco, Team OS/2 dave@drakkar.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Dallas Hinton
To: Steve Quarrella
Re: Suggestion for the future
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Steve -- on Nov 30 2000 at 10:06, you wrote:
SQ> I think George brings up a good point to address. What are your
SQ> thoughts on this one?
George is absolutely right -- there is no reason why we shouldn't be
contacting telnet BBSes to invite them to join FidoNet. Everybody
would win, imo.
Who should do this? It would make sense for the invite to come from
the NC of the net the telnet system might belong to, but as ZC I'd
certainly have no problem writing a message which someone could
deliver on my behalf. If *I* happen to see a telnet system I'll
deliver it myself, but the more eyes the better!
Cheers... Dallas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Foxy Ferguson
To: The Candidates
Re: Questionaire
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Some of the members of my net wish me to forward to them the
candidate platforms along with voting instructions. Here are
eight questions for you as a candidate. Please try to cover
these concerns as succinctly as possible.
1) How long have you been a member of Fidonet?
2) What volunteer/appointed/elected positions have you held
during that time?
3) What do you envision the Z1C position to entail?
4) Do you believe you have the time and wherewithall to do
justice to the duties you would be called upon to perform?
5) What is your vision of Fidonet's future and what can be
done to achieve it?
6) As objectively as possible, analyze yourself and indicate
the qualities you possess that would have a bearing on how well
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 15 4 Dec 2000
you would be able to fulfill the Z1C job as you view it.
7) Why did you accept the nimination?
8) Why do you think you would be a =better= person for the job
than the other two candidates?
I, the silent ones of my net, and no doubt many others shall
appreciate your response to these points and I, personally, wish
to thank all three of you for deciding to seek the Z1C job,
despite the obvious hazards.
Regards,
Foxy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Jack Yates
To: Steven Horn
----------------------------------------------------------------------
SH> In other words, David did not get a sysop election across Zone 1
(if that is what he wanted) but he did get a sysop election within
each region. Since he authorized the release of the election rules
that led to this, he can't have been totally upset.
JY> I've watched this football get kicked from one end of the parking
lot to the next and wonder why no one has realized:
David Moufarrege is the ZC, yes; David is also a SysOp, one SysOp out
of many in Zone 1. While David can *want* a Zonewide election that
does not involve the ultimate appointment by the RCC as mandated in
Policy and say so pubicly *as a SysOp*, he cannot order one *as the
Zone Coordinator*. Whether some of us deny it, ignore parts oor all
of it, adhere to the spirit, but not the letter, or embrace it fully,
Policy 4.07 does exist and is the guiding documentof this hobby; to
decree that an election such as several members of Region 12 would
like may be an improvement over what has been done in the past but the
Policy Wankers would call him on the carpet with a swiftness, I'm
sure. Further, a Z1C could (figuratively) walk into the ZCC, sit down
at the table and be told to go back and be properly appointed before
taking that seat; i.e. he would be powerless in the ZCC and not
particularly strong among the folks inZone 1 who still believe in
Policy, of which there are more than a few.
AFAIC we have the best of elections we can have at this point in time
and if weare to do otherwise in the future, we should create a Zone
Policy that mandates the RC reflect the choice of their regions in a
Zone-wide election.
However, before such a policy is created, it should be determined if
the grunt SysOps of all the regions actually *want* to vote on every
issue.
~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 16 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
COLUMNS
=================================================================
By: Dallas Hinton
To: All
Re: Z1C questions 1 of 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Group: Now that I'm home from work and have had time to consider
your questions, I'd like to try and answer them all in one big
message. That way, you've got all my answers in one place!
From: David Calafrancesco
1) Are you willing to bind yourself to only invoking P4.07 to solve a
problem rather than prevent someone from doing what they feel needs to
be done? Examples
Absolutely -- one of the basics of P4, imo, is the concept that each
sysop is a self-governing entity and that the purpose of Policy is
define standards for us to communicate easily. In the old days, that
meant enforcing zone-mail hour -- but now that's unnecessary (at least
in Zone 1) and Policy should be changed.
2) Are you willing to bind yourself to accepting the will of the
members of a region in selecting their own RC (eg sysop voting in a
region)?
Absolutely -- just I have done with NCs in Region 17, so I would do
with RCs if I were the ZC. And before anyone comments, let me tell you
right out that I have replaced an NC on two occasions, and closed down
several nets because of missing NCs. In every case, I took those
actions as a last resort, and with appropriate consultation and
support from the affected members.
3) In Region 13 we have a local election policy that allows for a
recall vote for RC, will you bind yourself to accept the results of
such a recall should it ever be needed?
Yes.
4) What experience do you have working with people you disagree with?
4a) Can you work with them without losing your temper? 4b) Have you
lost your temper working with people you found disagreeable, if so,
what happened and what were the circumstances?
:-)) I'm a high school teacher, involved in Career Preparation (Work
Experience) programs. I regularly have to deal with other teachers who
disagree with letting students leave school for a week to experience
the work world. We're still able to sit together in the staff room.
:-) I HAVE lost my temper with some -- I do my best to bite my tongue
and go away until I can regain my temper -- if necessary, I apologize
to them and try again.
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 17 4 Dec 2000
5) What circumstances (other than a dead telenumber) in this day and
age are sufficient to toast a node's number?
Beats me -- I'm sure there are some (Major and repeated spamming comes
to mind) but I sure don't want to make up a blanket rule. Such things
should be dealt with on a case by case basis with input from all
affected parties, and from the RC council. RCs tend to have a lot of
people skills, for the most part, as well as technical skills and it
would be foolish of any ZC to ignore that resource.
5a) Do you support leaving a 'toasted' node in the nodelist pending
their appeals except in the very rare case of there being demonstrable
harm to the network if the node is left in the nodelist pending the
appeal?
Yes, even if it means providing an independent number (I've had to do
that on one occasion).
6) Do you have any other duties in FIDO? 6a) Will they conflict with
your being the ZC? 6a1) if so, what do you plan to do about them?
I'm currently RC 17, and will be resigning that in early Spring,
regardless of the outcome of this election. If I am chosen as ZC, I'll
resign earlier. I move a small amount of mail for a small group of
friends -- I don't see any conflict there.
7) Do you feel that P4.07 needs to be fixed? 7a) If so, in what ways?
7a1) What do you feel you can do to bring about change?
P4 is badly out of date. Much of it is still quite workable ("too
easily annoyed", for example) but other parts are just plain
ridiculous (Zone mail hour) or fuzzy (ION). I believe I can bring
together good people to redraft P4. A multi-stage approach will be
needed, first to amend the revision process, then to do the actual
revisions. Along the way, we may be able to use a Zone Policy to help
accomplish what we (as a group of sysops) decide we want our hobby's
policy to be.
8) What do you feel should be done to market this hobby to potential
new customers?
I've a number of ideas, but again I'd like to get input from the zone
rather than trying to play the expert. I'm a coordinator, not a expert
with all the answers.
9) Do you support the inclusion of IP Only nodes?
Yes, absolutely.
9a) Do you support IP Only nodes in coordinator positions?
With some hesitation, yes. The hesitation is that I think it's
important that no sysop become disenfranchised by losing the ability
to contact his/her coordinators even though s/he has only POTS
connectivity. I've seen several suggestions for work-arounds, and I
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 18 4 Dec 2000
suspect we'll have to again deal with this situation case by case.
9b) Do you support the creation of an IP Only region or at least an
IP Only net? 9c) Do you agree that any node in north america (at
least) on the internet is local to every other internet node and as
such could band themselves together into a net if they so desire?
Yes on b and c. I already have an IP net in my region, although it's
not exclusively IP.
10) What technical changes should be made in FIDO to make it more
stable and open to potential new members?
I wish I knew! Obviously we have to use the Internet to make echomail
and filebone transfers fast and affordable. Equally obvious, those of
us still running a BBS need to maintain POTS and (I'm working on this
for my system) add Telnet capability. Beyond that, I think it's time
we got some of our good people writing/assembling turn-key packages
that will work as well as a Yahoo- type email account. Connectivity
first, then technical knowledge -- goodness knows I couldn't have got
MY system running without help and the challenge was to find that
help!
Continued to next message....
By: Dallas Hinton
To: All
Re: Z1C questions 2 of 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi All -- following up a message from Dallas Hinton to you:
From : Foxy Ferguson
1) How long have you been a member of Fidonet?
I set up my first system on March 1, 1988, and joined FidoNet almost
at once.
2) What volunteer/appointed/elected positions have you held
during that time?
NEC (2 years, I think), NC (2 years), and RC (7 years)
3) What do you envision the Z1C position to entail?
The most important job, of course, is Nodelist building and
distribution (yes, a nodelist clerk!). However, other jobs (in no
particular order of importance) include representing Zone 1 to the
other ZCs, coordinating the Zone as a whole (through a
representational process that starts with the individual sysop and
works up through the NC / RC chain), hearing any policy complaints or
appeals beyond the RC level, and coordinating the formation and work
of various groups to develop software packages, FidoNet advertising
packages, and Policy revisions, and, of course, providing technical
assistance wherever possible.
4) Do you believe you have the time and wherewithall to do justice to
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 19 4 Dec 2000
the duties you would be called upon to perform?
I do, or I wouldn't have accepted the nomination. I gave it a lot of
thought and discussion before deciding, and my wife still thinks I'm
nuts! :))
I'm close to taking early retirement from work; I have most evenings
free at home, and have a lot of experience as a coordinator.
5) What is your vision of Fidonet's future and what can be done to
achieve it?
I think I've addressed that in my earlier message.
6) As objectively as possible, analyze yourself and indicate the
qualities you possess that would have a bearing on how well you would
be able to fulfill the Z1C job as you view it.
I've had close to 20 years as a teacher of adolescents, and I'm still
(mostly) sane. I've spent most of those years persuading
administrators to give my programs more money (with some successes and
some failures). I'm a reasonably calm person and can usually find the
humour in things that go wrong! I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong.
And yes, I think I can even work with Ward, despite our philosophical
differences!
7) Why did you accept the nomination?
Sheer stupidity? (see above) :-)
8) Why do you think you would be a =better= person for the job than
the other two candidates?
I'm not sure I do think that. I believe that any of the three of us
would do a good job for FidoNet, and if I'm not the winner I won't be
all that unhappy!
I, the silent ones of my net, and no doubt many others shall
appreciate your response to these points and I, personally, wish to
thank all three of you for deciding to seek the Z1C job, despite the
obvious hazards.
You're welcome!
CONTINUED...
By: Dallas Hinton
To: All
Re: Z1C questions 3 of 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi All -- following up a message from Dallas Hinton to you:
From : Ruth Argust
1 - Have you ever filed a policy complaint?
Yes.
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 20 4 Dec 2000
2 - Without details as to the instance, what was the result of your
filing a policy complaint?
The sysop in question appealed the ruling to the then RC who upheld
it. The sysop was suspended for a period of time.
3 - Did the "punishment" benefit Fido or was it for personal
satisfaction?
I believe it benefitted FidoNet -- things were much quieter for a
while after that event.
4 - Did you ever rule on a policy complaint?
Yes, I've received several over the years, both as NC and as RC (not
the same complaints, of course!). In almost every case, I managed to
bring resolution between the participants without having to formally
"rule".
5 - Was the policy complaint appealed?
n/a
6 - If appealed, was your ruling upheld?
n/a
7 - Without details as to the instance, what was the "punishment"
deemed to be?
None.
8 - As Z1C, you may at some time need to rule on a policy complaint.
Do you see excommunication as the only punishment suitable for a
violation of policy or are there other alternatives available and if
so, what are they?
There are many alternatives, but I believe it important to aim for
resolution of the dispute rather than punishment of an offense. If
resolution just can't be achieved, then "punishment" might consist of
a period of enforced down time, removal from a net (to Regional or
Zone Independent status). I'd sure like to avoid that approach if at
all possible.
Cheers... Dallas
From : David Hallford
What is your stance on the inclusion of non POTS nodes in the
nodelist?
As addressed earlier, I'm all in favour of them, although I have some
reservations regarding having them take on *C roles.
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 21 4 Dec 2000
What is your position on geographical exemptions and what, if any,
administrative actions would you require before a non-geographical
node number was issued to a node?
Particularly given the ION situation, I see no particular reason to
enforce geography any more -- that's one of the changes I'd like to
see in P4. Certainly the *Cs affected should be given an opportunity
to discuss such a move, but as long as there's no harm being caused to
FidoNet I don't see any reason to try and block such moves. I would be
somewhat unhappy about cross zone exemptions, although I'm not
entirely sure why. :-) It would be a topic for discussion, for sure.
What is your position on sysop level elections for all *C positions?
Like you, I'm ambivalent. I believe the purpose of having the RCs vote
is twofold:
1) to provide each region an equal voice regardless of
population/membership;
2) because in reality, it's the RCs who have to work with the ZC and
therefore they should have a large voice in picking a ZC.
Do you support the internet oriented flags in the nodelist?
For sure!
That pretty much covers my concerns. Thank you for taking the time to
read this message.
Thanks for asking!
Continued to next message...
Cheers... Dallas
No-one has asked me this question, but I'd like to answer it anyway!
:-))
If I am elected as ZC, my first priority will be to get the nodelist
building process transferred and stable. Fortunately, I have holidays
from December 22 to January 7th, so I'll have ample time to get that
done and make sure it's stable and replying to incoming segments
promptly.
Following that, in no particular order, I would:
1) Establish links with the ZCC (multiple links for redundancy, by
preference);
2) Establish links with the RCC (multiple links for redundancy, by
preference);
3) Establish links with the other zones to ensure smooth transfers of
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 22 4 Dec 2000
zone segments;
4) In consultation with the RECs, select a ZEC;
5) Get sysop committees formed to begin (or continue) the process of:
a) revising Policy;
b) determining an ION policy;
c) determining a better way of
selecting/electing *Cs (note, NOT *ECs --this is none of the ZC's
business, imo);
6) Select an assistant/backup ZC who would mirror all nodelist
processing and be able to step in at short notice should such become
necessary;
That's all I can think of at the moment -- I'm sure there are other
details I've overlooked, but I perceive those as being the most
important!
Cheers... Dallas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Dallas Hinton
To: Michael Grant
Re: Questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Michael -- on Nov 28 2000 at 00:49, you wrote:
MG> 1. Will you work actively as Z1C to bring about changes to the
Fidonet P-4.07 policy document? If these efforts produce a
palatable document for the majority of members of Zone 1, will you
present it to the other Zone coordinators as a possible new policy
document for all of Fidonet? If the other Zones seem opposed or
indifferent to it, will you then work to have it adopted as Zone 1
policy?
Yes.
MG> 2. Do you support the idea of making all coordinator positions in
Zone 1 elected positions, with set terms of service and recall
mechanisms? If so, what terms of service and mechanisms/causes
for recall would you propose?
No. While having all *C positions is, on the face of it, a noble
ideal, the reality is that we don't have enough volunteers now.
*Requiring* elections might well scare off some otherwise-willing
volunteers, as well as forcing an action which some regions (or nets)
wouldn't want. I suggest that giving nets and regions freedom of
choice is a better solution; those that want elections can certainly
have them, while those who would rather ignore the whole issue can do
that to.
MG> 3. Will you respect the rights of the separate regions of self
determination, accepting their choices for RC if they decide to
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 23 4 Dec 2000
elect them, and ensuring that each region has an equal say on all
matters of importance?
Absolutely -- as I already said in some earlier diatribe. :-)
MG> Will you accept the individual members of the RCC as
representative of their respective regions, and consult that body
on matters of importance to the entire zone?
Yup -- that's what the RCC is for!
MG> Would you attempt to remove any RC whom you discovered was
going against the wishes of his or her region, if that region had
no recall mechanism? What criteria would you consider a valid one
for such a removal?
If a region wants to replace an RC, they have only to do so and advise
the ZC. That practise was established during Bob Satti's tenure and I
certainly would continue it. The criteria are up to the region -- an
RC represents his/her region and if the region no longer considers
him/her to be doing the job they should choose a new one asap.
MG> 4. Will you be open and communicative to any individual sysop of
Zone 1 who may pose questions to you in public (sysop-only) echos
such as Z1C, FN_SYSOP, SYSOP, ZCC_PUBLIC, or RCC-PUBLIC? Will you
be prompt in answering concerns sent via netmail or e-mail? Will
you act in as timely a manner as possible in any matters of
importance that you are asked to consider, such as policy
complaints or serious concerns about one who holds a *C position?
Of course -- that's how I am as an RC, and I see no reason why I would
behave any differently as ZC. That doesn't alter the fact that my
reply may well be to redirect the questioner to someone who knows more
about that issue than I do!
MG> Thank you in advance for taking the time to answer these
questions.
You're welcome.
MG> ... Be polite. First listen to sermon, THEN eat missionary.
Wait -- ZC -- I'm not so sure.....
Cheers... Dallas
~~~~~~~~BEGIN~~~~~~~~
***JANIS' COLUMN***
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
By: Janis Kracht
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 24 4 Dec 2000
To: All
Re: Questionnaire
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>1) How long have you been a member of Fidonet?
I believe since sometime in 1991.
>2) What volunteer/appointed/elected positions have you held
>during that time?
NC, REC, International Coordinator of the FileGate.
>3) What do you envision the Z1C position to entail?
Timely distribution of the nodediffs, as well as work with RC's and
others in Fidonet to create an atmosphere that makes current sysops
want to stay in the network, and makes Fidonet an attractive place for
new sysops and users on our systems.
>4) Do you believe you have the time and wherewithall to do
>justice to the duties you would be called upon to perform?
Yes.
>5) What is your vision of Fidonet's future and what can be
>done to achieve it?
In the past few years we've taken the attitude that the internet can
be "used" in a sense to enhance our connectivity to our network as far
as HUBing, picking up echomail and files, etc. Now I believe we need
to turn this around somewhat and actually start to make our bbs
systems a place where internet users will feel comfortable and
interested in our systems.
As I mentioned in David's inquiry, I've already started a project to
do this. This new project will use internet technology to attract
Internet users to our bbs systems. The project is at its very
beginning of Phase one, with some minor details yet to be worked out.
Phase one of this idea involves creating a database of all systems in
Fidonet to allow a browser user to select a site in the database based
on features provided by the site such as message boards (echos), games
(doors), etc. Phase 2 of this project will involve tieing dialup nodes
to the database to pull in connections to systems not available on the
internet.
I also feel it is important to have systems and people connected to
Fidonet regardless of what software they use, or how they connect to
Fidonet (ip nodes, etc.)
>6) As objectively as possible, analyze yourself and indicate
>the qualities you possess that would have a bearing on how well
>you would be able to fulfill the Z1C job as you view it.
I'm patient <smile>. I am generally able to think of ways to have
people work together, and enjoy doing so.
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 25 4 Dec 2000
I do not work full-time. I have the time to give to the network.
>7) Why did you accept the nomination?
I accepted the nomination because I think I can do the job well.
>8) Why do you think you would be a =better= person for the job
>than the other two candidates?
I have time to devote to it, I play well with others <g> and I look
forward to helping our hobby to survive beyond 2001 with some new
ideas.
>I, the silent ones of my net, and no doubt many others shall
>appreciate your response to these points and I, personally, wish
>to thank all three of you for deciding to seek the Z1C job,
>despite the obvious hazards.
:)
Take care,
Janis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Janis Kracht
To: All
Re: questions for the candidates...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Are you willing to bind yourself to only invoking P4.07 to solve a
problem rather than prevent someone from doing what they feel needs to
be done? Examples would be using P4.07 to force a node into a local
geographic net against their will when they want to be listed
elsewhere and have an NC/RC willing to have the listing etc...
Certainly. As we try to find ways to deal with the survival of our
network given the Internet's influence, I believe a number of
situations should be examined with a different mindset.
2) Are you willing to bind yourself to accepting the will of the
members of a region in selecting their own RC (eg sysop voting in a
region)?
I don't think the word bind is a necessary thing here David. I think
it makes sense to do so.
3) In Region 13 we have a local election policy that allows for a
recall vote for RC, will you bind yourself to accept the results of
such a recall should it ever be needed?
Yes.
4) What experience do you have working with people you disagree with?
Plenty. The fact that the Filebone and the FileGate can work together
and have for a good number of years is indicative of this. Within the
FileGate itself, I've also worked with people who did not agree with
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 26 4 Dec 2000
me for one reason or another. If someone had a problem with a
particular file echo for instance, I generally am able to find a
suitable work-around to take care of the problem.
4a) Can you work with them without losing your temper?
Yes.
4b) Have you lost your temper working with people you found
disagreeable, if so, what happened and what were the circumstances?
No.
5) What circumstances (other than a dead telenumber) in this day and
age are sufficient to toast a node's number?
Offhand I can't think of one. I think as we move into more internet
connectivity, IP nodes/nets,etc., situations may develop that we
haven't thought of at this time. As these issues emerge, I believe
they should be looked at on an individual basis with input from RC's,
and NC's, etc. regarding how they should be dealt with.
5a) Do you support leaving a 'toasted' node in the nodelist pending
their appeals except in the very rare case of there being demonstrable
harm to the network if the node is left in the nodelist pending the
appeal?
Yes. And the same with *C positions as well (NC/NEC, RC/REC, etc.)
6) Do you have any other duties in FIDO?
Yes. Coordinator of the FileGate. Network Coordinator of net 2320.
Regional Echomail Coordinator of Region 11.
6a) Will they conflict with your being the ZC?
No, though I've mentioned to those in my net that should I win this
election that if they'd like an election for NC2320, and I'd be
willing to continue pulling in the net's echomail/netmail if
neccessary.
6a1) if so, what do you plan to do about them?
7) Do you feel that P4.07 needs to be fixed? 7a) If so, in what ways?
7a1) What do you feel you can do to bring about change?
Yes I do feel P4.07 needs to be fixed or rewritten altogether. I
think we need to re-think the strict geographic conditions of policy
4.07, Zone Mail Hour, and "general sysop-level elections" (or lack of
them rather) in Policy 4.07. While some feel Sysop-wide votes can be
messy, I don't think they are impossible if organized.
8) What do you feel should be done to market this hobby to potential
new customers?
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 27 4 Dec 2000
While I don't look at bbs users as customers, nor do I look at nodes
in Fidonet as customers, I'm hoping that the idea being worked on in
number 10 below may help in this aspect.
9) Do you support the inclusion of IP Only nodes?
Yes.
9a) Do you support IP Only nodes in coordinator positions?
If the coordinator is easily accessable by those in this person's
network, yes.
9b) Do you support the creation of an IP Only region or at least an IP
Only net?
I think that a dialup network presense in an area can only help to
bring nodes _back_ to Fidonet, so I'd like to see both IP regions/nets
and geographic regions/nets be available in Fidonet.
9c) Do you agree that any node in north america (at least) on the
internet is local to every other internet node and as such could band
themselves together into a net if they so desire?
Yes.
10) What techincal changes should be made in FIDO to make it more
stable and open to potential new members?
One idea I've already started working on with some non-Z1 nodes is a
new project to use internet technology to attract Internet users to
our bbs systems. The project is at its very beginning of Phase one,
with some minor details yet to be worked out. Phase one of this idea
involves creating a database of all systems in Fidonet to allow a
browser user to select a site in the database based on features
provided by the site such as message boards (echos), games (doors),
etc. Phase 2 of this project will involve tieing a dialup node to the
database to pull in connections to systems not available on the
internet.
Take care, Janis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Janis Kracht
To: Ruth Argust
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Ruth,
>> 2) Are you willing to bind yourself to accepting the will of the
members of a region in selecting their own RC (eg sysop voting in a
region)?
>> I don't think the word bind is a necessary thing here David. I
think it makes sense to do so.
> Since you do not wish to use the word "bind", would you please
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 28 4 Dec 2000
provide an example when would it not make sense to do so?
What I said was I didn't think it was necessary to "say it". In other
words, it goes without saying. I don't have a problem with accepting
the elected RC of a region.
>> 4) What experience do you have working with people you disagree
with?
>> Plenty. The fact that the Filebone and the FileGate can work
together and have for a good number of years is indicative of this.
Within the FileGate itself, I've also worked with people who did
not agree with me for one reason or another. If someone had a
problem with a particular file echo for instance, I generally am
able to find a suitable work-around to take care of the problem.
> But in some cases, it was true that certain of the rules you
established or > "coordinated" were quite inflexible irregardless of
the circumstances.
Like?
I didn't want to remove the Xfiles echomail listing from filegate.zxx.
That was a matter of the work in maintaining two documents. I also
didn't think it was that big a deal to the operation of the FileGate,
but removing those listings probably would have alienated the
coordinator who was already feeling a bit "outside" the flow of things
because of some people's comments.
> In view of this, how would you determine which parts, if any, of P4
were inflexible?
You'd have to give me a more specific question if you'd like a
specific answer here Ruth :) In general I can tell you that I don't
feel there is a whole lot about policy 4 that I can't be flexible
about. I assume you've also read the other posts I've made regarding
questions asked here of the candidates.
>> 6) Do you have any other duties in FIDO?
>> Yes. Coordinator of the FileGate.
>A very long fought battle says that the FILEBONE and the FILEGATE are
NOT part> of FidoNet.
So? It takes up some of my time. Isn't that the real question that
was asked? I thought it was :) Also, insinuated by the question was
the issue of experience in dealing with problems, people and such..
all of which are part of coordinating the FileGate.
>> Network Coordinator of net 2320. Regional Echomail Coordinator of
Region 11.
>> 6a) Will they conflict with your being the ZC?
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 29 4 Dec 2000
>> No, though I've mentioned to those in my net that should I win this
election that if they'd like an election for NC2320, and I'd be
willing to continue pulling in the net's echomail/netmail if
neccessary.
>> 6a1) if so, what do you plan to do about them?
> I am a bit unsure about your NC hat above. Would you please clarify
since the> sentence seems incomplete.
Personally, I don't feel that being the NC of net 2320 will conflict
with my being ZC, however I'm leaving it up to my net whether they'd
like me to drop out as their NC. If they need me to continue to pull
in the traffic for them I don't have a problem with that. I said this
to them because some of the people who might want to run in the
election might not want to pay for the internet service necessary to
do so.
>> 7) Do you feel that P4.07 needs to be fixed?
>> 7a) If so, in what ways?
>> 7a1) What do you feel you can do to bring about change?
>> Yes I do feel P4.07 needs to be fixed or rewritten altogether. I
>> think we need to re-think the strict geographic conditions of
>> policy 4.07, Zone Mail Hour, and "general sysop-level elections"
>> (or lack of them rather) in Policy 4.07. While some feel Sysop-wide
>> votes can be messy, I don't think they are impossible if organized.
>It should be said that attempts to change P4 for many years have
failed. But a>David asked, what do you feel you can do to bring about
change and further, ho > would you work to accomplish this?
I'd like to organize a task force of sysops and *C's to rewrite policy
4.07 or amendents to it.
Take care,
Janis
~~~~~~~~~BEGIN~~~~~~~~~~
***ROSS' COLUMN***
-----------------------------------------------------------------
By: Ross Cassell
To: David Calafrancesco
Re: questions for the candidates...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello David!
26 Nov 00 21:58, you wrote to all candidates:
DC> I haven't seen any platforms from any of you as of yet so we need
to ask some questions to get the measure of you as potential ZCs.
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 30 4 Dec 2000
It was beginning to become impossible for the platforms, given the
other noise.
DC> 1) Are you willing to bind yourself to only invoking P4.07 to
solve a problem rather than prevent someone from doing what they feel
needs to be done? Examples would be using P4.07 to force a node into a
local geographic net against their will when they want to be listed
elsewhere and have an NC/RC willing to have the listing etc...
If the instance involves some sort of refugee status, then listing
them where they want as opposed to losing them outright is
preferrable.
One however doesnt need a NET 1212 node number to pull mail from a NET
1212 node.
DC> 2) Are you willing to bind yourself to accepting the will of the
members of a region in selecting their own RC (eg sysop voting in a
region)?
I come from such a region, so yes.
DC> 3) In Region 13 we have a local election policy that allows for a
recall vote for RC, will you bind yourself to accept the results of
such a recall should it ever be needed?
I come from such a region that has the recall bit outlined, so yes.
DC> 4) What experience do you have working with people you disagree
with? 4a) Can you work with them without losing your temper? 4b) Have
you lost your temper working with people you found disagreeable, if
so, what happened and what were the circumstances?
I am well known to have a thin skin and a thick skin, but I also am
not well known to be overly laid back. I'll tell you outright, I do
not tolerate baseless accusations or theories, suppositions or
innuendo if there are zero facts or incomplete facts to back it up.
When it comes to working with people, it takes 2 to tango, there are
individuals I disagree with on one facet of fidonet, but can get
things done with them on other facets.
I feel strongly about what I have done, am doing and can do for this
network and I do hit back when this is impuned.
DC> 5) What circumstances (other than a dead telenumber) in this day
and age are sufficient to toast a node's number? 5a) Do you support
leaving a 'toasted' node in the nodelist pending their appeals except
in the very rare case of there being demonstrable harm to the network
if the node is left in the nodelist pending the appeal?
The NODELIST is FIDONETS phone book, I do not support leaving dead
nodes in this list as window dressing, as removed node can be
re-inserted as fast as it was removed, but pending appeal the node
should be left in, perhaps with the HOLD flag?
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 31 4 Dec 2000
I do not look kindly at Policy Complaints, because you have one fellow
hobbyists trying to deprive another hobbyist of the hobby.
I have had only one PC cross my netmail folder since I was the R18C,
fortunately I was able to talk both parties into compromising and
apologizing that made the notion of the PC a moot point, the
complainer got what he originally wanted and the other party stayed.
Every *C, whom finds his or herself in the position of deciding a PC,
needs to step back and ask the complaining party, "Are you sure", "Are
you aware of..." and other points.
DC> 6) Do you have any other duties in FIDO?
Yes, I am a mail mover.
DC> 6a) Will they conflict with your being the ZC?
No, I have separated those duties from my RC hat.
DC> 7) Do you feel that P4.07 needs to be fixed?
Yes. (But see answer to 7a1)
DC> 7a) If so, in what ways?
More sysop inclusion in decision making, such as removing ambiguity in
the selection of *C's. This does not mean to mandate elections, but to
specifically allow them in those cases, areas where they are desired.
Region XX might be ok with electing the RC, Region ?? might be
comfortable with some other method?
DC> 7a1) What do you feel you can do to bring about change?
An outright policy revision is going to be a more monumental task,
since we have 5 other zones to bring on board to do it. A Z1C is gonna
have to find out via the ZCC how active/alive the other zones are and
if there is some discontentment among these other zones with p4,
enough in which to effect change.
If said is determined have each region in each zone elect a
representative to a committee to begin working on a revision?? (I am
of course open to other ideas)
Another thought to consider is this:
A few regions in Z1 have written policies that supplement Pee4 without
exceeding pee4 and cover such things as elections and the like. Why
not create a Z1 policy document?
DC> 8) What do you feel should be done to market this hobby to
potential new customers?
Word of mouth has always been the best tool, I once dropped off
business cards describing my BBS at local computer stores, of course
this only worked locally and we cannot expect to have sysops go print
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 32 4 Dec 2000
up business cards..
Most sysops with Internet Access usually get some web space with their
accounts, I suppose the sysops whom care could put some info on their
pages describing Fidonet and promote it with moderated echoes as
opposed to the free for all usegroups on the Internet.
DC> Do you support the inclusion of IP Only nodes?
Absolutely.
DC> 9a) Do you support IP Only nodes in coordinator positions?
If an NC, only if they can maintain FTN contact with a IP capable *C
above them.
POTS may be, a rarer thing, but it isnt passe.
DC> 9b) Do you support the creation of an IP Only region or at least
an IP
NETS.
DC> Only net? 9c) Do you agree that any node in north america (at
least) on the internet is local to every other internet node and as
such could band themselves together into a net if they so desire?
Most regions have ION nets already..
NET 211 in R10 NET 3830 in R19
et al
RIN section in R18
I believe its up to each region how to deal with ION's.
DC> 10) What technical changes should be made in FIDO to make it more
stable and open to potential new members?
The further promotion of ION ability and the absolute erasure of the
concept that one must run a BBS to be in Fidonet.
In the time I have been the R18C, too many times have I heard this:
"Ummm Ross, I have been in Fido for xx years, over the past x years,
my BBS has suffered xx usage drops and I cannot keep or justify having
the BBS anymore, I must resign my node number"
I have been successful in a number of these cases in retaining these
sysops, once I educated them on the fact that a BBS is not a
requirement, but many have been a victim of this MYTH.
== Ross E-mail: rcassell@home.com ICQ = 5305939
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 33 4 Dec 2000
To: Ruth Argust
Re: questions for the candidates...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Ruth!
27 Nov 00 15:41, you wrote to me:
RC>> If the instance involves some sort of refugee status, then
listing them where they want as opposed to losing them outright
is preferable.
RA> I would like to clarify this a bit if I may. David did not mention
refugee status, he simply said if they "want" to be listed elsewhere.
Are you saying that listing a node(s) elsewhere would only apply =if=
it involves refugee status? Or would a node have to "threaten" as in
"I'm leaving Fido if I can't switch"?
In my answer I am assuming no one would want to switch unless under
duress?
RC>> I feel strongly about what I have done, am doing and can do for
this network and I do hit back when this is impuned.
RA> And what would that hitting back consist of if the following were
involved:
RA> 1 - A sysop?
RA> 2 - An RC?
RA> 3 - The IC?
RA> Basically, what is your definition of hitting back?
To defend my position if I can.
There are times when you cant because the opponent is a brick wall,
but there are times when you can and should.
RC>> The NODELIST is FIDONETS phone book, I do not support leaving
dead nodes in this list as window dressing, as removed node can be
re-inserted as fast as it was removed, but pending appeal the node
should be left in, perhaps with the HOLD flag?
RA> Why change that node's status in any way at all while under
appeal? Using a HOLD flag may prevent ERN from reaching that node.
Most mailers will NOT dial a HOLD node for direct/crash netmail. Isn't
that actually disenfranchising that node while under appeal?
I believe Roy Witt has functioned quite well in this network with the
HOLD flag.. :-)
Note the perhaps..
But also note that a removable offense better be serious.
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 34 4 Dec 2000
RC>> A few regions in Z1 have written policies that supplement Pee4
without exceeding pee4 and cover such things as elections and the
like. Why not create a Z1 policy document?
RA> If region xx wants zone-level elections for the z1c position for
example, while region xx wants the electoral college method of voting,
how could agreement ever be reached as to any Z1 policy document?
Time, patience & compromise.
Compromising has to be a factor..
It would have to be put to the zone in such a way as to show a benifit
for all, at least to those not as used to electing the *C structures.
I am sure Gerry has been able to convince you as to why he needs a new
power drill, the same applies here.. We will have to try to convince,
sell our side of the story.
RC>> I believe its up to each region how to deal with ION's.
RA> And what if an ION node located in R19 wished to be listed in
R10's ION net?
Well, the R10 ION net currently has an International flavor. :-)
But to not dodge the spirit of the question, I would hope the node
gave R19 the chance to list him or her within the methodology it had
set aside for ION's?
Being listed in the same net because 'your buddy' is, seems silly to
me, you are ultimately in the same ASCII text file, just not within 5
or 6 lines of your buddy..
You and Dee for example are pretty good friends, she is in 250, you in
2404. Both of you several lines apart, but never more than a netmail
message away.
RA> In situations, such as you describe, allowing a sysop to continue
with a MO flag is preferable to losing that node but I would not say
it is a preferable thing to do. In fact, looking at the nodelist, I
see that many RCs indeed run only MO with no BBS. While, again, it is
not required, it does tend to discourage growth of Fido.
RA> Don't you think it would set a better example if the Z1C ran a
BBS?
The promotion of Fidonet in Spartanburg, SC???
Actually I was the last local dial-up BBS to go down in my town, I do
not know on Davids situation, as Rochester NY is a bigger metro area?
I stuck it out for a long long time, I printed business cards and
distributed them to local computer stores (also now defunct thanks to
Best Buy). In the end, what callers I had left, all 5 of them, treated
my Spitfire BBS like a dial-up nintendo and ignored the message base.
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 35 4 Dec 2000
I am still maintaining a Fido presence tho, this is still key.
== Ross E-mail: rcassell@home.com ICQ = 5305939
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Ross Cassell
To: Dave Hamilton
Re: Questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Dave!
29 Nov 00 21:28, you wrote to me:
DH> How will you know "the sysops" don't want an RC?
By receiving input or any complaints by the affected sysops.
DH> Will you ask the RC? Will you ask the RC to poll the sysops that
might not want him, to see if any have the nerve to tell him they want
him removed? Then consider that a valid survey when he reports that
they are happy with him?
DH> Can you see any flaws at all in this process?
After hearing one side of the story, I would ask the RC for their side
of the story and consider things from there. But I would not charge
the RC with asking his or her own constituents if they want to keep
him or her. Also bear in mind we are talking about regions that dont
have a recall mechanism in place.
You could also come up with a number of scenarios, but each one is
different and unique.
Food for thought, I might be hesitant to do anything if I am only
hearing from 5 or 6 sysops whom are being what we know to be a vocal
minority. It might give me cause to poll the NC's to get a bigger
perspective.
I believe Ruth Argust can give you a more detailed recollection of the
Bob Kohl thing than I could, so having said that my take on that is
the then Z1C should have been more pro-active to have headed that herd
of at the pass.
I do not feel the current crop of RC's have the attributes that
existed in the afore mentioned former R10C either.
But know this, any *C cannot be everything to everybody, to think
otherwise is foolish. So if ever presented with a scenario, one factor
to consider is the personality conflicts involved.
Christopher Baker was the then R18C, when my region adopted electing
RC's and a R18POL. Christopher Baker had theses attributes:
* Extremely competent on the technical levels and knew policy like the
back of his hand. (these were different times then)
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 36 4 Dec 2000
* His communication skills were sorely lacking, he could often be
condescending.
The second attribute cost him the election.
Obviously if the RC cannot work the NC's and sysops in his region
because of an attitude on the RC's part, it might be more detrimental
to let the *C stay, but that question is up to the affected sysops and
not a sole decision to be only decided by a ZC.
== Ross E-mail: rcassell@home.com ICQ = 5305939
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Ross Cassell
To: Dave Hamilton
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Dave!
30 Nov 00 10:43, you wrote to Darrell Salter:
Dave, I am going to give the peacock his reply here, since many of you
astutely pointed out that this is a public echo, he can read it here,
I see no reason to duplicate my responses.
My oh my how we have this never ending desire to be placated, is this
an eastern canadian attribute?
RC>>> I already stated that I wouldnt dictate these things not to
happen (if elected), I still reserve the right to have the opinion
that it is not necessarily a requirement to be in the same net to be
with like minded people.
DS>> You wanking hypocrite! That is exactly what you did when I asked
you to allow a sysop to become a member of a net in your region,
remember? They were buddies and wanted to be in the same net,
remember? You clearly went on a big power trip and adamantly refused
that request on geographic grounds [...]
Times change and opinions change.
The parties involved also were involved in an Othernet<tm>.
Nevertheless this was not the case of a stranded node, but already
established nodes.
Had I been asked 4 years ago about myself drinking beer, my opinion
then as compared to now would be different... Then I did, now I dont..
If Darrell wants to wind his panties in a wad so tightly by not
recognizing *OR* allowing one to change or adopt different
philosophies, let him..
DH> Now you're going to be considered a fanatic because *you* are the
one who coughed up the evidence. Let's see if he accuses you of
putting a spin on it.
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 37 4 Dec 2000
No his recollection is fairly accurate, his crystal ball is flawed.
DH> There is no pattern of his doing what he claims to support. If you
can corner him into a straight answer, you can't predict that his
future behaviour will match it.
I have nodes geographically located in 18 but listed elsewhere and
nodes located elsewhere listed in 18..
Maybe you are hypothesising incorrectly?
== Ross E-mail: rcassell@home.com ICQ = 5305939
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Ross Cassell
To: Michael Grant
Re: Questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Michael!
28 Nov 00 00:49, you wrote to Z1C Candidates:
MG> 1. Will you work actively as Z1C to bring about changes to the
Fidonet P-4.07 policy document? If these efforts produce a palatable
document for the majority of members of Zone 1, will you present it to
the other Zone coordinators as a possible new policy document for all
of Fidonet?
No.
If we went this route, the other zones would see this as a ZONE 1
authored document.
Rather we get all zones to send representativces to a committee of
sorts.
MG> If the other Zones seem opposed or indifferent to it, will you
then work to have it adopted as Zone 1 policy?
As suggested by myself earlier, I would favor the creation of a Z1
policy document.
MG> 2. Do you support the idea of making all coordinator positions in
Zone 1 elected positions, with set terms of service and recall
mechanisms? If so, what terms of service and mechanisms/causes for
recall would you propose?
No.
I support letting each net and region decide on the mechanism's in
which their *C is selected.
I favor elections for the ZC position, the thing to do now is to come
up with a universally accepted guideline to use, via any potential
zonal policy document?
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 38 4 Dec 2000
MG> 3. Will you respect the rights of the seperate regions of self
determination, accepting their choices for RC if they decide to elect
them, and ensuring that each region has an equal say on all matters of
importance? Will you accept the individual members of the RCC as
representative of their respective regions, and consult that body on
matters of importance to the entire zone?
Yes
MG> Would you attempt to remove any RC whom you discovered was going
against the wishes of his or her region, if that region had no recall
mechanism? What criteria would you consider a valid one for such a
removal?
Not unilaterally.
I would consult with the members of that region to find out whats
going on, what they want et al?
MG> 4. Will you be open and communicative to any individual sysop of
Zone 1 who may pose questions to you in public (sysop-only) echos such
as Z1C, FN_SYSOP, SYSOP, ZCC_PUBLIC, or RCC-PUBLIC? Will you be prompt
in answering concerns sent via netmail or e-mail? Will you act in as
timely a manner as possible in any matters of importance that you are
asked to consider, such as policy complaints or serious concerns about
one who holds a *C position?
Yes.
But as real-life permits.. :)
== Ross E-mail: rcassell@home.com ICQ = 5305939
~~~~~~~~~~~~BEGIN~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
***RUTH'S COLUMN***
-----------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Ruth Argust" <ruth@petpride.org>
To: <wdbonner@pacbell.net>
Subject: replace other article of mine
Date: Friday, December 01, 2000 10:11 PM
Comments on the Z1C Election
Ruth Argust
1:2404/201
We have at hand an election for the position of Z1C. David Moufarrege
rendered his intention to surrender the position on October 19, 2000.
With that and other posts, David restated his wishes in regard to
filing the position "... I made it quite clear that I favor a
direct and general election, not the "electoral college" model with
no statuatory accountability for the vote."
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 39 4 Dec 2000
Unfortunately, after his intent to surrender, the issue went to the
RCC where somehow the RCs had gotten the impression that they were to
fill the Z1C position with an Interim and hold elections at a later
date. Time was wasted while some RCs ran to their regions asking for
input in regard to this Interim. Other time was wasted as some RCs
objected to David's having cast Zone 1's vote for Ward Dossche and
wished it withdrawn. Finally they got to work and the first draft,
called Version A, did indeed allow for zone 1 sysop-level voting in
the election. As time passed, however, Jim Cannell later joined by
Dallas Hinton strongly objected to this version insisting that it
violated Policy. They ignored the similarity to RCs being elected
in some other regions by sysop-level elections and the fact that
the Z1C has simply "appointed" that RC to their position to satisfy
Policy 4. If the RCs had agreed to accept the results of a direct
sysop-level vote and simply cast their votes in this manner, there
would be no conflict with P4.
The Jim-Dallas steam roller effect had begun and one by one, whether
in the interests of time, expediency or in preventing a war within
the RCC itself, enough of the RCs agreed on what was called Version C
to govern the election. Only the RCs will vote and how each RC
decides to cast their vote depends entirely on what that RC wants to
do. They do NOT have to consult at all with the sysops in their
regions. Some regions will poll their sysops. Some RCs will simply
cast their regional ballot however that RC chooses to do so.
If you recall, in the last Z1C election, RCs were mandated to collect
the votes from the NCs (who were to poll the sysops) and vote
accordingly. While that is not the ideal, we are now regressing back
to a time when sysops may not be counted at all.
All Zone 1 sysops should feel angry and cheated. The RCs have reneged
on the words of the Z1C and while many of us were protesting, we have
been called trouble makers and the MOB among other terms. I
personally asked Dallas no less than three times directly "Why are
the RCs refusing to have a sysop-level vote?" and the question was
never answered. In regard to a zone 1 position, there is no real
reason why each region individually should cast one vote. Arguments
as to population are simply not valid and may harshly skew the
results. As has been seen in the discussions, sysops from all over
the zone have many of the very same concerns as evidenced by the
questions posed to the candidates.
Zone 1 is presented with three candidates for the Z1C position
(alphabetically listed):
Ross Cassell
Dallas Hinton
Janis Kracht
The regional vote collection process (if there is one in your region)
is set to begin. Will your vote as a sysop even matter? Check with
your RC to see what method is being used in your region if you have
not yet been informed.
Who should you vote for?
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 40 4 Dec 2000
This depends on what you are looking for as qualities in a Z1C. All
the candidates have said they do have time for the duties of the
position. All appear to be technically competent in order to compile
a nodelist. Most of the candidates have, in one way or another,
agreed to ignore geographic restrictions, Ross being a bit more
strict than the other two. All candidates support ION nodes and
FidoNet growth by use of ION nodes. All agree that Policy 4.07 is
outdated and needs change, some suggesting that we first try to
implement a Zone 1 Policy. Only one of them has ever filed a Policy
Complaint, that being Dallas Hinton. That PC was based on echomail
content and even though it was filed in 1995, Dallas contends that
the situation is different now. Since there have been no changes in
policy in the last five years, I don't see how that is so but no
response has yet been made by Dallas at the time of this writing.
Ross made the following comment in regard to Policy Complaints,
"... I do not look kindly at Policy Complaints, because you have one
fellow hobbyists <sic> trying to deprive another hobbyist of the
hobby." Janis is the "dark horse" in this election since she is not
a current RC. Other than her discussing plans to bring new nodes into
Fido, Janis has been rather brief on many responses she has given.
Whether she has been reading administrative echoes in the past is not
known but she has not been an active participant. She does show
naivete in many of her responses that leads one to believe she is not
well versed in some important parts of Fido history which do impact
how FidoNet runs at this time.
The qualities beyond this that I would want in a Z1C, you may not
care about even though you should. I would look for a person who
stood for sysop rights, who would be willing to work to be certain
that the next election for Z1C would indeed be a zone-wide sysop-level
election. I would look for a person who would care about working
first with the sysops and next with the RCs and not the other way
around. I would look for a person who does not believe in any "upper
levels" or "lower levels". I would look for a person who wants to
serve the sysops of the Zone as the sysops wish the Z1C to serve
them. I would look for a person who believes we are all equal sysops
with none more equal than any other. I would look for a person who
does not feel that being the Z1C places them on any pedestal, who
does not treat the sysops like unintelligent children but realizes
that Fido's true strength and power comes from the sysops and them
alone. And I would look for a person who truly believes that
Fido = SYSOPS.
After careful consideration of all of the above, I would cast my vote
for Mickey Mouse.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(14039) Tue 28 Nov 00 2:01a
By: Ruth Argust
To: Dallas Hinton Re: Z1C
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Dallas.
Dallas Hinton wrote in a message to All:
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 41 4 Dec 2000
Please bear with me, I have changed the initials to reflect the
section that I originally posted so as not to be confusing to others.
DH> From : Ruth Argust
<snip>
RA> 2 - Without details as to the instance, what was the result of
your filing a policy complaint?
DH> The sysop in question appealed the ruling to the then RC who
upheld it. The sysop was suspended for a period of time.
Forgive me but I do not see suspension in Policy 4.07. If the sysop
was "suspended," that sysop was most likely dropped from the nodelist.
Per Section 2.1.12, "a system which has been dropped from the network
is said to be excommunicated (i.e. denied communication)."
Therefore, it seems that your policy complaint resulted in a sysop
being excommunicated for an undefined period of time, correct?
<snip>
RA> 3 - Did the "punishment" benefit Fido or was it for personal
satisfaction?
DH> I believe it benefitted FidoNet -- things were much quieter for a
while after that event.
RA> Only for a while? Does this mean that the excommunication did not
resolve the problem? Why not?
<snip>
RA> 8 - As Z1C, you may at some time need to rule on a policy
complaint. Do you see excommunication as the only punishment
suitable for a violation of policy or are there other alternatives
available and if so, what are they?
DH> There are many alternatives, but I believe it important to aim for
resolution of the dispute rather than punishment of an offense.
Certainly, that is a given.
DH> If resolution just can't be achieved, then "punishment" might
consist of a period of enforced down time,
RA> I don't see enforced down time in Policy 4.07 either. Is this
again excommunication disguised in other verbiage? If you note my
original question was posed as to elicit some creative thinking in
order to see what type of alternatives might be available other than
excommunication. It appears, however, that you have listed that first.
DH> removal from a net (to Regional or Zone Independent status). I'd
sure like to avoid that approach if at all possible.
*ruth*
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 42 4 Dec 2000
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(14919) Fri 1 Dec 00 8:20p
By: Ruth Argust
To: All
Re: Dallas and FidoNews
St:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Other than removing the line feeds, this has not been edited by me in
any manner whatsoever. There are many sites on the Internet to find
old issues of FidoNews if you wish to confirm this article.
-----------------------------------------------
F I D O N E W S -- Vol.12 No.37 (11-Sep-1995)
------------------------------------------------
Dallas Hinton Falsifies Evidence In Policy Complaint
By Alan Boritz - 1:2605/102@fidonet.org
A FidoNet RC falsify evidence against one of his fellow sysops?
Strange, but apparently true. It seems that Dallas Hinton, a former
Canadian high school music teacher, currently the region 17
coordinator, and a sysop of three systems in the same network as Bob
Satti (net 153), was so eager to file a policy complaint against one
sysop that he skipped the most basic step in any Policy4 complaint
action (communication with the "problem" sysop).
Mr. Hinton's "complaint" began with a netmail message. This one,
in fact. Note the date and time when written:
(85) Thu 3 Aug 95 20:47 Cost: 0
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
By: Dallas Hinton, BandMaster (1:153/715)
To: Brent Hamm
Re: Policy Complaint
St: Pvt Crash Kill
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
@MSGID: 1:153/715.0 0219075d
@CHRS: IBMPC 2
Original message addressed to: Brent Hamm (1:2805/1).
Carbon copies sent to: Will Wright (1:2805/0), Tim Pearson (1:14/0),
Bob Satti (1:1/0).
Brent!
In a recent message in the WARNINGS echo, you signed yourself as:
_ _ _ O / _ _ C_U_T_ H_E_R_E_ _ _ _
O \
The Terminator, 1:289/22
FidoNet International Coordinator
--- FMail/386 1.0g
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 43 4 Dec 2000
* Origin: The EchoMail Liberation Army (1:2805/1)
[...]
PATH: 2805/1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 153/920 716
_ _ _ O / _ _ C_U_T_ H_E_R_E_ _ _ _
O \
If you post another message with a fake signature, you will be the
subject of a policy complaint. Impersonation of a *C is not
acceptable behaviour in FidoNet.
Dallas Hinton
RC 17
@Via 1:153/715 @19950804.054749 TNT 0.99B0204+
24 hours later, Dallas Hinton posted a public message in the MODERATOR
conference announcing that he had ALREADY filed a PC against Mr. Hamm:
Date: Fri Aug 04 1995 20:55:54
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From: Dallas Hinton
To: Charles Ring
Subj: Hijacking Threat
MODERATOR -------------------------------
Hi Charles -- recently you wrote in a message to All:
CR> "The Terminator" has already started disrupting the WARNINGS
CR> echo and has convinced some users that he's its moderator.
CR> It's not the first time that this vandal/bully has caused
CR> havoc. Why is everyone afraid of him?
I would suggest that a flood of netmail to his Net Coordinator would
impress the NC to hint gently at him regarding the likelihood of his
node number lasting.
FYI, I have filed a policy complaint (section 1.3.5, paragraph 2,
sentence 5) with his NC (Will Wright) over Mr. Hamm signing himself as
"FidoNet International Coordinator". I promptly received netmail from
a mental midget in a different net signing himself "Satanus Maximus"
and claiming to be "Regional Coordinator of Region 17". Since I
haven't been told by the ZC that I've been replaced, I'll be filing a
PC against him, too. <sigh>.
That's more PCs in a week than I've filed my previous 8 years in
FidoNet.
Cheers ... Dallas
Moderator, SURVIVOR and RGN17 echoes
RC 17
-!- timEd 1.10.g1+
! Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver BC, CANADA [604-266-7754]
(1:153/715)
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 44 4 Dec 2000
--
Let's recap the dates of those messages:
Thursday, 8/3/95 @ 20:47 - Hinton SENDS his 9.1 message.
Friday, 8/4/95 @ 20:55 - Hinton claims he's ALREADY filed a PC with
N2805C.
RA> Mr. Hinton, supposedly an experienced RC and competent sysop, had
reason to know that a netmail response may not be immediately
forthcoming, since he had no way of knowing when Mr. Hamm would first
read his netmail message, and especially since Mr. Hinton has admitted
to having "problems" with netmail. And as an experienced sysop,
familiar with echomail topology and message propagation, Mr. Hinton
knows full well that echomail messages can take several days to travel
through wide-area routing between Mr. Hamm's and his locations.
RA> Although Mr. Hinton now claims to have "communicated" with the
subject of his PC, Mr. Hinton's own messages, presented to Will Wright
(N2805C) and posted publicly, show that he had NO intention of waiting
for Mr. Hamm's response to his 9.1 (required communication) message
before filing his PC, since he acted LONG before he could have
reasonably received either a response, or to see the results of his
"request" in the echomail conferences Mr. Hinton was reading that
resulted in this conflict.
RA> A ridiculous PC based on a ridiculous "complaint," with no
relation to Policy4. Hinton's complaint has already been struck down
at the NC and RC levels, though Hinton secretly filed his complaint
with R14C (so that the sysop against whom the complaint was filed
would not have the opportunity to respond to his appeal). Will Hinton
appeal secretly (again) to Z1C, and will Bob Satti (Z1C) mysteriously
"recover" long enough to issue a decision on his friend's appeal? Will
Hinton abuse more sysops though the Policy4 complaint/appeal process
before Satti resumes his duties as Z1C? Stay tuned here to find out.
RA> Dallas Hinton has refused to comment on these issues, but you can
reach him at 1:153/715@fidonet.org or dhinton@portal.ca.
Ruth
* Origin: The Great White South (1:2404/201)
~~~~~~~~~~END~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 45 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
GETTING TECHNICAL
=================================================================
-=+TECH NOTES+=-
Internet Only Nodes by David Hallford 1:211/103
With the explosion of internet only nodes, I think we in Fidonet
should revisit the idea.
The count as of the last nodelist in November of internet capable
nodes yields the following numbers:
IP:
25 ITX:
109
IUC:
110 IBN:
634 ITN:
211 IVM:
67 IFT:
74 IFC:
194 IUC:
110 ISE:
14 IEM:
101
Seperate lists of these nodes in 3d format are parsed from the
nodelist weekly and distributed in the fileecho INODELST weekly from
David Moufarrege's system <thank you David>, as well as lists which
are importable/includable for BinkD and TransX.
I have no clue how many of these are internet only nodes, but I know
there are a fair amount out there just from reading the echos. The
problem is, however, how do we reach these nodes? I see two
possibilites - one is that we have an email contact flag (not IEM
which is used for something else) the other is that we have a routing
flag.
Both ideas have an up and down side, but I would actually like to see
both used. The routing flag can be parsed from the nodelist easily, as
currently are the other internet flags and melded with your current
route file. The e-mail address can also be parsed weekly and
distributed as a simple text file for reference.
Think about these things. It's really easier than you think to
implement either idea (or both).
The guy who does the INODELST parsing says he can easily modify his
software to do this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: David Hallford
To: Ross Cassell
Re: Questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 46 4 Dec 2000
RC> Hello David!
Hi Ross!
Thank you for your timely response. Greatly appreciated.
with warm regards,
Dave
Electronic Postscript:
RC> If elected, I intend to continue and try to
RC> further the inroads Mouf made in this area.
I think David did an excellent job in this area also. A lot of folks
have overlooked that. Two years ago Mouf started distributing the
weekly lists parsed from the nodelist of the I-suite of flags. I thank
him for that.
--- GEcho 1.20/Pro
* Origin: The Psychotic Submarine (1:211/103)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Steven Leeman
To: FidoNews Robot
Re: FidoNews 17:48 [04/06] Technical
St:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello FidoNews,
Sunday November 19 2000 14:15, FidoNews Robot wrote to All:
FR> GETTING TECHNICAL
FR> ============================================================
FR> by Steve Leeman
FR> By: Steven Leeman To: All Re: V92 en V44 another occurence
FR> of the coming of a new modem protocol!
aargh...you could have asked an English translation...as was posted in
ftsc_public a few days after mine inhere :-)
FR> FidoNet: Echo for Point from Holland) * From: Henri Derksen,
Fidonet Technical Standards Committee Public (2:292/624) FTSC_PUBLIC
From : Henri Derksen 2:280/1208 Thu 16 Nov 00 01:11
Subj : V92 and V44
* Forwarded from "125 HS_Modems International"
Hallo Everybody,
In the English magazine Acorn User issue 225 from Oktober 2000 sysop
David Dadementioned the ratification by the ITU-T (CCITT) of the new
modem standards V92 and V44. See also: http://www.acornuser.com
For clearity here the old situation:
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 47 4 Dec 2000
HighSpeed DataComm with a V90 modem on even Analogue as on ISDN-lines
or a combination of those two.
ITU-T V90 64000/56000/33600 bps (inclusive the rest of V34)
BBS-user / Point BBS BossNode / InterNet Service Provider
Originate modem Answer Modem Max possible speeds in bps:
1 Analogue Analogue Rx 33.600 / Tx 33.600 = V34+ / V34+
2 ISDN Analogue Rx 33.600 / Tx 56.000 = V34+ / V90c
3 Analogue ISDN Rx 56.000 / Tx 33.600 = V90s / V34+
4 ISDN ISDN Rx 56.000 / Tx 56.000 = V90 / V90
5 ISDN ISDN Rx 64.000 / Tx 64.000 = V90 / V90
New is the ITU-T V92 standard with 44.000 bps in stead of the 33.600
bps on High Speed Split Bitrate connections.
ITU-T V92 64000/56000/44000 bps (inclusive the rest of V90 and V34)
BBS-user / Point BBS BossNode / InterNet Service Provider
Originate modem Answer Modem Max possible speeds in bps:
1 Analogue Analogue Rx 44.000 / Tx 44.000 = V34+ / V34+
2 ISDN Analogue Rx 44.000 / Tx 56.000 = V34+ / V92c
3 Analogue ISDN Rx 56.000 / Tx 44.000 = V92s / V34+
4 ISDN ISDN Rx 56.000 / Tx 56.000 = V92 / V92
5 ISDN ISDN Rx 64.000 / Tx 64.000 = V92 / V92
Note: an old famous Low Speed Split Bitrate connection was 1200rx/75tx
;-). Thats why an InterSpeedBuffer was often used! Sure on PC's witch
had a serial port that could not accept split rates.
Also new is V44 that follows the V42bis OnLine DataCompression. V44
uses the LZJH algorithm and has a max OnLine Compression rate of 1:6
against 1:4 with V42bis, 25% better thus !
May be the V92 and V44 are the latest technical mutations for analogue
modems? After that the ISDN-, ADSL- en CAI-Coaxkabel-modems are more
used.
Who knows more about V92 and V44?
Until now I have heard very little about it.
I wanted to upgrade my ZyXEL Elite 2864 modem (V34) with flashrom to
V90. But I think I can better wait until the V92 flash-rom-image is
ready ? ;-).
I am very interested in your answers.
Greetings from |_| |\ | |enri |/erksen, SysOp UniCorn BBS
NetMail: 77:8500/504.1 @ AcoNet
2:2801/208.1 @ FidoNet
InterNet E-Mail to: Henri_Derksen@aconet.org
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 48 4 Dec 2000
UniCorn BBS: +31-(0)26-4425506 Modem 8N1 t/m V34 28.800 bps
TeleFAX: +31-(0)26-4425506.
o Steven Leeman,
)/\,[_) Sysop SkyNET Bbs
`T7 ]=[ http://welcome.to/skynetbbs (Dutch/English)
... Fidonet, Where do you want to go today
---
* Origin: SkyNet Bbs <32-(0)16-580862> (2:292/624)
~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 49 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
WE GET EMAIL
=================================================================
By: David Calafrancesco To: Janis Kracht Re: questions for the
candidates...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Janis Kracht wrote in a message to Ruth Argust:
>> 6) Do you have any other duties in FIDO?
>> Yes. Coordinator of the FileGate.
>A very long fought battle says that the FILEBONE and the FILEGATE are
>NOT part
> of FidoNet.
JK> So? It takes up some of my time. Isn't that the real question
JK> that was asked? I thought it was :) Also, insinuated by the
JK> question was the issue of experience in dealing with problems,
JK> people and such.. all of which are part of coordinating the
JK> FileGate.
Correct, as the person who wrote that question, I was looking for any
and all jobs that related to FIDO and your experience coordinating
files is relevant to that question and the others.
Dave Calafrancesco, Team OS/2
dave@drakkar.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Janis Kracht
To: David Hallford
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello there David,
> First: I want to thank you for being willing to take on the duties
as Z1C. I know that any position of service in Fidonet requires the
use of your time and tends to make you a target for not so nice echo
and net mail.
One thing you learn early in Fidonet is how to roll with the
punches <g>
> My major concerns deal with the political climate within Fidonet
these days. Go figger. To be fair (not to sandbag you) I will tell
you how I stand on the>issue before I ask you how you stand on it.
This way there will be no hidden trick questions.
> #1. I support 100% the inclusion of none POTS nodes in the nodelist.
I am one being that I send and recieve all my mail by an email
tunneling program. As a traveling man this allows me to remain in
Fidonet.
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 50 4 Dec 2000
> What is your stance on the inclusion of non POTS nodes in the
nodelist?
No problem whatsoever.
> #2. I also support a nodes right to go into any zone/region/net that
can give them the best level of support or protect them from
percieved persecution regardless of the geographical constraints of
P4.
Same here :)
> What is your position on geographical exemptions and what, if any,
dministrative actions would you require before a non-geographical
node number was issued to a node?
I don't see a reason for "admistrative actions" to qualify a node for
what policy 4.07 now refers to as an exemption.
Here's an example of what I mean, "One Internet FidoNet Node's Story"
if you will <smile>:
A fellow from the Internet contacted me via e-mail asking how he could
join Fidonet. I worked with him to get his IP mailer running
correctly, and then later I worked with him to get his echomail and
files tossing correctly. Once things were going well, I put him in my
net, and then contacted the NC of the net he would have been in had he
been a land-line node. I asked the NC to let me know when he would be
able to put this fellow in his own net but that this fellow could
continue to pick up any traffic from me. That NC was out of town for
over a month for personal reasons and though we've been in contact
with each other, he still has yet to move this node over to his net.
Is this hurting anyone? I don't think so. Oh, I did contact my RC
over this as well... in case anyone decided that seeing this node in
my net was offensive <g>, but I don't feel in general that one needs
an administrative decision or action to accept a new node into our
network.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Jerry Schwartz
To: David Calafrancesco
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello, David...
Nov 26, 2000 at 10:06, David Calafrancesco wrote to Jerry Schwartz:
DC> A question for you... will R16 be voting on the ZC candidates and
DC> will you bind yourself to voting their will at the RCC level?
As I already said, I am conducting a plebiscite in which every R16
sysop is entitled to one vote. I, as RC, will vote for the candidate
who got the most votes. In the event that the candidate who got the
most votes is eliminated and a runoff is required, I will vote for the
remaining candidate who got the most votes in the plebiscite. In the
event of a tie in the plebiscite, I will choose among the tied
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 51 4 Dec 2000
candidates. (I couldn't see any other way to proceed.)
As to whether or not they will vote, I hope so; but I wouldn't be
surprised if I only see a handful of ballots.
Regards,
Jerry
mailto:jerryschwartz@comfortable.com
http://www.writebynight.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Lesley-Dee Dylan
To: David Calafrancesco
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DC> No... it was constructed to allow a region like yours
DC> to let their RC get away with not representing them
DC> again. Please don't expect the rest of the zone to make
DC> your RC stand up and play nice with you. If you want an
DC> RC to represent you, then bind them with a policy that
DC> binds them to your collective will. We in R13 have such
DC> a policy and an RC that bound herself to that policy.
Darrell is representing our region just fine, thank you. Don't
complain if you don't like the way he is doing it. Region 12 likes it
just fine.
BS> I would suggest that you put your efforts towards
BS> organizing region 12,
With the current situation, an election for RC underway in Region 12,
we have to have the agreement of the sitting RC, the RC-election-RO,
and both the candidates running for the office before an RO for the
Z1C election can be appointed. We have three in agreement at the
moment, for the RO-candidate I nominated, and we are awaiting the last
one to agree. If s/he doesn't agree, then we start again and try to
find another one.
I've been asked to assume the position of RO myself, but I consider
that it would be an inappropriate inpropriety for me to accept, since
one of the candidates is my immediate uplink. I take the subject of
the impartiality and independence of an RO very seriously.
DC> Sorry... compromises sometimes have to be made... make
DC> the best of it. Tell Darrell to represent your region
DC> with a sysop election in the region, period.
Darrell has been representing our region very well. Our region
believes, overwhelmingly, that the RCC should not be redefining sysop
level to mean electoral college. David Mouffarege had said "direct;"
how does that cover electoral college? That is not direct. Darrell
has been doing an excellent job of telling the RCC and the zone that
this is the opinion of our region. Darrell has also shown us that the
RCC carries on in their super-secret elflord conference to the
detriment of the freedom of the sysops. He has told us that he feels
that the appropriate response to this is to withdraw from the elflord
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 52 4 Dec 2000
conference, to the public echos, unless specifically asked by a member
of the region to speak on his/her behalf in the secret echo. The
region agreed with his evaluation, and told him to go ahead. Darrell
wants to be held accountable - to his region. He wants us to see what
is happening. He wants it done in public, where we can watch over him
and make sure he is doing what we want on our behalf.
Darrell is representing Region 12 extremely well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Michael Grant
To: Z1C Candidates
Re: Questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello Ross, Dallas, and Janis.
Thank you for accepting your nominations for the Z1C position, and
best of luck in the election.
A few questions for you:
1. Will you work actively as Z1C to bring about changes to the
Fidonet P-4.07 policy document? If these efforts produce a palatable
document for the majority of members of Zone 1, will you present it to
the other Zone coordinators as a possible new policy document for all
of Fidonet? If the other Zones seem opposed or indifferent to it, will
you then work to have it adopted as Zone 1 policy?
2. Do you support the idea of making all coordinator positions in
Zone 1 elected positions, with set terms of service and recall
mechanisms? If so, what terms of service and mechanisms/causes for
recall would you propose?
3. Will you respect the rights of the seperate regions of self
determination, accepting their choices for RC if they decide to elect
them, and ensuring that each region has an equal say on all matters of
importance? Will you accept the individual members of the RCC as
representative of their respective regions, and consult that body on
matters of importance to the entire zone? Would you attempt to remove
any RC whom you discovered was going against the wishes of his or her
region, if that region had no recall mechanism? What criteria would
you consider a valid one for such a removal?
4. Will you be open and communicative to any individual sysop of Zone
1 who may pose questions to you in public (sysop-only) echos such as
Z1C, FN_SYSOP, SYSOP, ZCC_PUBLIC, or RCC-PUBLIC? Will you be prompt in
answering concerns sent via netmail or e-mail? Will you act in as
timely a manner as possible in any matters of importance that you are
asked to consider, such as policy complaints or serious concerns about
one who holds a *C position?
Thank you in advance for taking the time to answer these questions.
Mike Grant.
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 53 4 Dec 2000
~~~~~~~~~~~~end~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 54 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
NET HUMOR
=================================================================
Definition: Impotence... Nature's way of saying,
"No hard feelings".
---------------------------------------------------------
Q: What's the difference between medium and rare?
A: Six inches is medium, Ten inches is rare
---------------------------------------------------------
An elderly couple were celebrating their 50th wedding
anniversary, so they decided to return to the little town
where they first met. They sat in a small coffee shop in the
town and were telling the waitress about their love for each
other and how they met at this same spot. Sitting next to
them was the local cop and he smiled as the old couple spoke.
After the waitress left the table, the old man said to his
wife," Remember the first time we made love, it was up in
that field across the road, when I put you against the
fence. Why don't we do it again for old times sake?" The
wife giggled like crazy and said, "Sure, why not."
So off they went out the door and across to the field. The
cop smiled to himself, thinking how romantic this was and
decided he better keep an eye on the couple so they didn't
run into any harm.
The old couple walked to the field and as they approached
the fence they began to undress. The old man picked up his
wife when they were naked and leaned her against the fence.
The cop was watching from the bushes and was surprised at
what he saw. With the vitality of youth, the wife bounced up
and down excitedly, while the husband thrashed around like a
wild man, then they both fell to the ground in exhaustion.
Eventually, they stood up, shook themselves, and got
dressed. As they walked back towards the road, the cop
stepped from his hiding spot and said, "That is the most
wonderful love making I have ever seen. You must have been a
wild couple when you were young."
"Not really," said the old man, "when we were young, that
fence wasn't electric."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do you get an elephant into a Safeway grocery store?
Answer: You take the "S" out of Safe and the "F" out of way...
hmmmmm.....there is no "F" in way!
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 55 4 Dec 2000
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How did you do on your blind date last night, Sarah?
"Terrible!" the room-mate answered. "He showed
up in his 1932 Rolls Royce."
"Wow! That's a very expensive car. What's so bad
about that?"
"He was the original owner."
~~~~~~~~~~END~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 56 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
QUESTION OF THE WEEK
=================================================================
By: David Hallford
To: Candidates
Re: Questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi!
First: I want to thank you for being willing to take on the duties
as Z1C. I know that any position of service in Fidonet requires the
use of your time and tends to make you a target for not so nice echo
and net mail. It speaks well of all of you that you are willing to do
this in support of Fidonet.
My major concerns deal with the political climate within Fidonet
these days. Go figger. To be fair (not to sandbag you) I will tell you
how I stand on the issue before I ask you how you stand on it. This
way there will be no hidden or trick questions.
#1. I support 100% the inclusion of none POTS nodes in the nodelist. I
am one being that I send and recieve all my mail by an email tunneling
program. As a traveling man this allows me to remain in Fidonet.
What is your stance on the inclusion of non POTS nodes in the
nodelist?
#2. I also support a nodes right to go into any zone/region/net that
can give them the best level of support or protect them from percieved
persecution regardless of the geographical constraints of P4.
What is your position on geographical exemptions and what, if any,
administrative actions would you require before a non-geographical
node number was issued to a node?
#3. I am ambivalent on elections.
What is your position on sysop level elections for all *C
positions?
#4. I support all the internet oriented flags in the nodelist
(FTS-5001) and would like to see more as the technology advances.
Do you support the internet oriented flags in the nodelist?
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 57 4 Dec 2000
That pretty much covers my concerns. Thank you for taking the time to
read this message.
with warm regards, Dave
--- GEcho 1.20/Pro * Origin: The Psychotic Submarine (1:211/103)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Carol asks:
Question: How do you feel about this? Would you accept that one
region may have different views and account for them in an issue like
this?
2. My of the nodes here do not look like ION's because they do not
qualify as running their own servers in their homes, but instead use
those of others or have them located outside of their homes.
Question: Would you support more advanced FTSC 5001 (etc) flags to
show such accurately?
3. As a combination of the above, some nets send their segments via
other than the listed NC in R13.
Question: Would you object to this or uphold a possible P4
complaint if such came to be sent with that as a portion of the
decision?
xxcarol
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By: Andrea Santos
To: All Candidates
Re: Questions
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1) We almost "lost" a Region (14) in Zone 1 to a merger because of a
missing RC, and this wasn't the first time it's happened.
Acknowledging that weekly automated nodelist submissions may not
tell you an RC is alive, what measures will you put in place to
ensure this doesn't occur again?
2) Zone 6 continues to be a mess with one inactive ZC after another.
Do you feel this is only a matter for the IC or do you have any
thoughts to bring to the table which could possibly effect
change there?
3) What issues would you like to pursue with our IC?
4) In your tenure as a Coordinator, was there a decision you made
which stood out as particularly difficult? Rewarding?
5) What is the greatest strength you bring to the position of Z1C?
6) If elected, will you be a regular presence in the Z1C echo?
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 58 4 Dec 2000
7) Will you use Fidonews as a communicative channel?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 59 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
NOTICES
=================================================================
By: Carol Shenkenberger
To: All
Re: Z1C Election
----------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONE 1 COORDINATOR ELECTION - 2000
The Z1C has announced an election, for a new Z1C. Per Policy4, the ZC
is elected by the RC's under them. It is the choice of the RC's to do
this by the following method per P4 section 6.2.
A Z1 Sysop is defined as any Sysop who is nodelisted in Z1 and
physically located within the normal geographical boundries of zone 1.
The nodelist used will be the nodelist.322 version. Reasonable
exceptions will be made during the nomination phase by the election
coordinator if a node, net or region is accidently dropped from this
version and this is validated by the RC or NC of the affected node.
The term 'nodelisted' means listed in this version of the nodelist.
Nominations
Nominating time table: NOV 17-25, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST
Any nodelisted Z1 Sysop of Fidonet may nominate themselves or another
nodelisted Sysop of of Z1 Fidonet for the position of Z1C. The
nomination must be made in the Z1_Election echo and should be
addressed to the Election Coordinator.
The nomination must include the name of the nominee and their Fidonet
node number.
Once a nomination has been received by the election coordinator, the
name will be added to the list of nominees. The nomination must then
be accepted by the nominee and seconded by a Z1 Sysop in the echo to
become a fully eligible candidate.
Discussion Period NOV 26- DEC 02, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST
Following the nomination period, a period shall be allowed for each
candidate to campaign for the position. During this period,
questioning of the candidates is encouraged.
Regional Feedback Period DEC 03-16, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST
Following the campaign period, the above period shall be allowed for
each region to conduct selection proceedings in accordance with
regional policy and such methods as are determined as appropriate
based on regional policy or the desires of the Sysops within that
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 60 4 Dec 2000
region. All voting or other feedback including what is desired if
there is a run-off election and the primary candidate your region
selected is eliminated, must be concluded no later than 16 DEC. No
time is alloted to conduct secondary polls of regional input once RC
voting commences.
Regional Coordinator Voting - DEC 17-22, 2000
All dates start at 00:00 and end at 11:59 PM EST
Following collection of regional input, the RC's shall cast their
vote. (Location TBD at this time).
Initial voting will be from 17-18 DEC. The candidate with the most
votes, wins. This will be calculated by a simple majority where if
any one candidate receives 6 RC votes, they will be announced as the
winner. If no candidate achieves 6 RC votes, a run-off election will
take place from 19-20 DEC between the top 2 candidates.
Contesting of the vote will take place from 21-22 DEC. Once finalized
and with no RC's contesting the vote, the results will be posted in
the Z1_ELECTION echo.
Note, this section may be ammended after the initial Z1C election
process has begun, in order to finalize the location of the RC votes.
Term begin/end: Turnover date to May 2003
Upon completion of the election, the newly elected Z1C's term begins
as soon as turnover can be accomplished but no later than 5 January
2001. Due to early turnover, the normal 2 year period will be extended
5 months and end May 2003. This is in order to avoid mandating a vote
over the holiday season in 2 years.
Z1C Election Coordinator - 2000
Addendum to clarify: RC votes are cast in accordance with regional
policy which in some cases means the RC has delegated the vote to an
RO/EM or whatever their region uses for the collection phase. This is
expressly left up to the regions to determine. For example: R13C has
delegated this to the R13EM.
xxcarol
~~~~~~~~~~~~END~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 61 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
FIDONET BY INTERNET
=================================================================
------------------------------------------------------
*Fidonet-related sites
. -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
| FIDONET-RELATED SITES |
` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
Last update: November 29, 2000
FidoNet
Homepage: http://www.fidonet.org
FidoNews: http://www.fidonews.org [HTML]
ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
Echolist: http://www.baltimoremd.com/echolist/
Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidonet/fidoip.html
SDS Files: http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
FTSC page: http://www.ftsc.org/
General: http://www.writebynight.com/fidonet.html
Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org
Region 10: http://www.r10.org
http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html
Net 102 http://home.earthlink.net/~kayshapero/net102.htm
Net 103: http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
Net 203: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
Net 2410: http://www.vector.11.com/net2410/
Region 12: http://sparkys.dyndns.org
Region 13: http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
Net 264: http://www.net264.org/
Net 275: http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
Region 14: http://www.ouijabrd.com/region14
Net 282: http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
Region 15: <vacant>
Region 16: <vacant>
Region 17: http://www.region17.net
Net 140: http://www.nwstar.com/~net140
Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/
Region 19: http://bise.tzo.com/r19
Net 124: http://www.dallasinet.com/net124
http://texoma.net/~flv
Net 130: http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
Net 393: http://www.chatter.com/~wb/
Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/zone2 (Z2 nodelists etc.)
Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
Region 23: http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)
Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
http://www.was-ist-fido.de/
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 62 4 Dec 2000
Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
Region 25: http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie
REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French)
http://Welcome.to/skynetbbs/
Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German)
? Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian)
Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish)
REC34: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
Region 42: http://www.fido.cz
! Net422: http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian)
Net 5010: http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5028: HTTP://5028.nordnet.ru/
Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English)
Net 5049: http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org (English/Russian)
Net 5074: http://www.z2.n5074.fidonet.net
?? Net 5085: http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)
Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org
Zone 4:
Region 80: http://fidobrasil.8m.com (Portuguese)
Region 90:
Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)
Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/
Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org
Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
(Chinese)
Fidonet Via Internet Hubs
See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html
a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
address. The email is translated as follows
firstlast@osirusoft.com will automatically route to the
appropriate individual's email. Anyone in this list will
also receive routed notice of this feature. In my case, it
would still be joejared@osirusoft.com, but you get the idea.
Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
time between when the message is received, and when it is
sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 63 4 Dec 2000
after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.
v-email flag firstnamelastname@osirusoft.com
| email address or
Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
| | |latency|
-----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
Zone 1 | | | |
10/3 | Brenda Donovan | FTP,UUE,BinkP | 384K,30| n/c
10/345 @ Todd Cochrane | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,! | n/c
13/25 @ Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo.
18/500 @ Ross Cassell | FTP, BinkP |128K+,!| n/c
19/68 | Ben Ritchey | UUE:BFDS | 33.6k | n/c
103/5 @ Mark Luetger | BinkP | 384k,!| n/c
103/153 @ Michael Box | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
103/301 @ Joe Jared | BinkP,FTP,NFS | 384k,!| n/c
103/401 @ Warren Bonner | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
105/8 | Russ Johnson | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k | n/c
105/72 @ Larry James | FTP, BinkP | aDSL | $50/yr
106/1 @ Steve Loupe | BinkP, FTP | 128k | ???
106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP, VMoT | aDSL,60| n/c
107/453 @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
140/1 @ Bob Seaborn | FTP,BinkP | T3,30 | $5/$16
167/133 | Stephen Monteith | BinkP | 128k+ | n/c
211/417 @ Korombos | BinkP,UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c
218/109 @ Matt Munson | BinkP,UUE | 33.6k | n/c
246/160 @ Mason Vye | FTP, UUE | 56K | n/c
249/116 | Carl Austin Bennett | FTP, UUE |ADSL,60 | n/c
280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo.
342/3 @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP | 128K+ | n/c
395/670 | Arthur Stark | BinkD,FTP | 128k | n/c
379/1 @ Dale Ross | FTP, BinkP,UUE | 256K+,! n/c
396/1 @ John Souvestre | FTP,VMoT | T1,10 | $5/mo
396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr
2604/104 @ Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo
2613/404 @ David Moufarrege | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
2624/306 | David Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | n/c
3407/4 @ jyates@bsdi.ldl.net | UUE,FTP | 28.8 | n/c
3632/84 | Robert Todd |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
3651/9 @ Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 2 |
20/11 | Henrik Lindhe | BinkP | ??? | n/c
31/1 | Gabriel Plutzar | BinkP | T1+ | n/c
203/600 | Mikael Karlsson | UUE | 64k | n/c
221/360 @ Tommi Koivula | BinkP,UUE | ??? | n/c
236/205 @ Michael Kaaber | BinkP | ??? | n/c
246/2098 | Volker Imre | BinkP | ??? | n/c
280/1601 @ Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c
292/620 | Eddy Missoul | VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 64k |N/C
292/624 | Steven Leeman | UUE | 64k | N/C
292/907 | Bart Verhaeghe | BinkP,VMoT,UUE | 64K | n/c
292/2003 | Eric Vaneberck | BinkP | 768k | n/c
301/1 | Peter Witschi | BinkP | 768k | n/c
332/807 | Roberto Mascolo | BinkP | ??? | n/c
335/535 @ Mario Mure | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k | n/c
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 64 4 Dec 2000
335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
344/201 | Julio Garcia | BinkP | ??? | n/c
346/3 @ Carlos Navarro | UUE | ??? | n/c
382/100 | Sinisa Burina | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Ofir Michaeli & | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP | ??? | n/c
423/81 | Milos Bajer | BinkP | ??? | n/c
464/4077 | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE | 19.2 | n/c
465/204 | Va Milushnikov | BinkP | 33.6k | n/c
469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c
480/112 | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k | n/c
2411/413 @ Dennis Dittrich | UUE,BinkP | 64k | n/c
2446/301 @ Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K | n/c
2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn
5030/115 | Andrey Podkolzin | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5020/1159 | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 3
633/260 @ Malcolm Miles | FTP,BinkP | 64K | n/c
640/954 | Rick Van Ruth | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
774/605 @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 4
801/161 @ Renato Zambon | UUE | 33.6 |n/c
905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k | n/c
902/18 | Javier Tejedor | UUE | 33,6 | n/c
--
* FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol
* VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
* UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers
* BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
* NFS = Linux Networking
----------------------------------------------
Fidonet oriented news servers
news.osirusoft.com
news.tardis.net
Fidonet oriented chat rooms.
room #fidonet 5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
irc.osirusoft.com (Peers wanted)
----------------------------------------------
Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
Joe Jared, 1:103/301, joejared@osirusoft.com. All email addresses
here for purpose of corresponding with fidonet members about
obtaining a feed. Improper use of the virtual email addresses, and
most especially, email addressed to blockme@relays.osirusoft.com
will be considered a request to be blocked by my open relay spam
stopper at http://relays.osirusoft.com
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 65 4 Dec 2000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 66 4 Dec 2000
=================================================================
FIDONEWS INFORMATION
=================================================================
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- FIDONEWS STAFF - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Editor: Warren D. Bonner, 1:1/23, editor@fidonews.org |
| Webmaster: Jim Barchuk, jb@fidonews.org |
| Columnist: Joe Jared, 1:103/0, joejared@osirusoft.com |
| (Fido Via Internet Hubs column) |
| Columnist: Ol' WDB, 1:103/401, fidonews@netscape.net |
| Humor: Chuckles & Grins, emailed to editor |
| Sites Bio: Frank Vest, 1:124/6308.1 |
| (The best site of the week) |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - EDITORS EMERITI - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince |
| Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, |
| Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg, Henk Wolsink, |
| Doug Meyers |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA
94141, and are used with permission.
Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of Fidonet.
Fidonews is Copyright (C) 2000 by Warren Bonner, though authors
retain rights to their contributed articles. Opinions expressed
by theauthors is strictly their own. Noncommercial duplication
and distribution within Fidonet is encouraged. Authors are
encouraged to send their articles in ASCII text to:
Warren Bonner at one of his addresses above.
The weekly edition of Fidonews is distributed through the file
area FIDONEWS, and is published as echomail in the echo FIDONEWS.
These sources are normally available through your Network
Coordinator. The current and past issues are also available from
the following sources:
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- - FIDONEWS AVAILABILITY - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Freq FIDONEWS @ 1:140/1, or 1:396/1 |
| ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/ |
| ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/ |
| http://www.fidonews.org |
| email subscription: majordomo@fidonews.org |
| (subject: help body: list) |
| ftp mail: ftpmail@fidonews.org (subject: help) |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
FIDONEWS 17-50 Page 67 4 Dec 2000
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