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F I D O N E W S -- Vol.12 No.14 (03-Apr-1995)
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| A newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet BBS community | "FidoNews" BBS |
| _ | +1-519-570-4176 |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | Sheep affairs desk: |
| (_| /_) | Doc Logger 1:163/110 |
| _`@/_ \ _ | Rev. Richard Visage 1:163/409 |
| | | \ \\ | |
| | (*) | \ )) | Editors: |
| |__U__| / \// | Donald Tees 1:221/192 |
| _//|| _\ / | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Submission address: editors 1:1/23 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| MORE addresses: |
| |
| submissions=> editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
| Don -- don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
| Max -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
| Tim Pozar -- pozar@kumr.lns.com |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies of fidonews or the internet gateway faq |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
========================================================================
Table of Contents
========================================================================
1. Editorial..................................................... 1
2. Articles...................................................... 2
Freedom, Network, Future World.............................. 2
The Return of the Archons: "You Are NOT of the Body!"....... 3
Legal Briefs: The Judge has no Clothes...................... 5
F.A.C.TNet reports serious censorship attempts.............. 6
Who Owns an Echo?........................................... 9
3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 10
========================================================================
Editorial
========================================================================
FidoNews 12-14 Page: 2 03 Apr 1995
Whew! At 10:15 in the evening, Sunday, I looked in the
inbound and there were *no* articles. Then I checked my mail,
and three were waiting. Then two more came in while I was
reformatting the first three. So there will be a snooze for
another week.
Max is away this week, at the computer privacy conference in
San Francisco, so I am stuck doing this alone. If there were
articles sent to Max, rather than to "Editor", then they will
have to wait for next week. Mail is set up here so that mail to
specific people cannot be read by anybody else. Mail to
"editor" gets split and sent to both of us. I hope that does
not upset anyone, but I am not willing to violate the privacy
efforts on this board for the sake of a late article. It would
be particularly ironic to do it this week <S>.
SYAITE.
========================================================================
Articles
========================================================================
Freedom, Network, Future World.
by S.C.Martin Wong (6:700/760)
Computer network develop very rapidly after 1992.In U.S.A,
a lot of people is using InterNet.In Hong Kong, over 1000 BBS is
running, a lot of is using InterNet via InterNet Services
Provider (ISP).But some troubles is happening now.We must solve
these troubles quickly to protect the computer network
development and the human rights.
In March, Hong Kong some ISP were closed because OFTA and
police forced these ISP close down by telecommucation act.In
Hong Kong, every people open BBS or ISP, if the BBS and ISP
provide any E-Mail, these BBS and ISP should have PNETS license
and pay 9cents/per min to Hong Kong Telecom.But most of BBS and
ISP haven't any PNETS license, that mean most of BBS and ISP in
Hong Kong is illegal, expect some file-oriented BBS.
We can say this law is out-dated.But some large ISP use
this law hope make a big barrier to block another people use
"Information Highway".I think the Hong Kong Government do not
up-date the law, nobody can believe Hong Kong people have any
human rights after 1997.
In U.S.A, the new telecommucation act make the network
citizen lose a lot of rights which we must have.I think some
stupid politican hope make some stupid law to restrict the human
rights in network.But these politican will destroy U.S.A
economic future by these laws.
But if government haven't anty laws to restrict some people
do some absurd thing in network, network will be a black places
in the world.Then , what can we do?
FidoNews 12-14 Page: 3 03 Apr 1995
In my opinion, government should make some suitable laws
with BBS system operator, ISP owner, university professer and
some professional people in network world or computer world.Some
points is every law maker should know, and use these points to
make the law : -
- These law can protect the human rights.
- These law can block the people to do some illegal things
in network world.
- These law can make the network citizen have a equal opportunity
to use "Information Highway".
- These law is easy to execute.
- These law can up-date very easily.
- These law can make some pressure to every ISP provide better
services in the acceptable prices.
"Information Highway" is a turning point of human history,
"Information Highway" development is another important
revolution of human history.I hope every government in the world
can use the suitable policy to welcome this revolution, don't do
any stupid thing to welcome.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Return of the Archons: "You Are NOT of the Body!"
From: Fredric Rice (1:102/890)
The Return of the Archons: "You Are NOT of the Body!"
Another Meandering Tirade?
Greetings, Editrix and FidoNewsers, and a big 'hello' to all the
intelligent life out their. Since I like rhetorical questions so
much on call-in talk shows, I'll also ask the host "How're ya
doin?" I would like to say a few things about FidoNet and Internet
systems which maintain archives of hate materials -- an issue you
touched briefly upon in one of the last issue of FidoNews.
I think 'mindless conformity' becomes popular due to a lack of
desire to put forth the effort to think critically along with the
desire to be on what is percieved as "the inside." After all,
those who don't conform are censored, demonized, and made
sacrificial Goats -- a highly successful vehicle for unifying the
fractions of dogmatic conformers against non-conforming
freethinkers.
My opinion, sure, yet I think it an obvious conclusion to reach.
You comment upon Nazi hate literature, Editrix, being available on
FidoNet systems and it's good that you recognize that they're made
available so that we can, as you say, keep an eye on "them." In
fact, on my system, I have over 10,000 files which deal with the
distasteful. Much of it is exactly as you describe. Much of it
is far worse. I have a file which describes the book titled, "The
Death Penalty for Homosexuals is Proscribed in the Bible" yet that
file doesn't exist here because I agree with the claims the book
FidoNews 12-14 Page: 4 03 Apr 1995
makes, it is because I recognize the need to distribute details
about such materials _outside_ of the circles where it normally
perpetuates: among those who already believe and are looking to
further entrench their astounding hatred and bigotry. If it is
already believed that homosexuals should be executed, when that is
entrenched, a critical mass will be reached and mob rule takes over.
Every time, in fact. Demonize the innocent and you win the hearts
and the minds of those who mistakenly feel disenfranchized and
who are resentful (and the utterly ignorant and dimly stupid) then
you may use them to further the rest of your political agenda.
And I will be Goat-fucked if I'll be censored, I might add. I
understand that in Canada there are "false news reporting" laws
which have been used to censor Holocaust revisionists. Such laws,
I feel, are _dangerous_ to the liberties of free speech even
though it allows for those who hate to have their say. They
should. Yet the "false news reporting" laws of Canada could be
used against systems like mine which make hate materials available
for download, censoring the very information I feel is very
important to _stop_ the pendulum of fascism and make it reverse
its direction toward tolerance.
I tell you, Editrix, FidoNewsers, and all intelligent life forms
in the universe, resistance _isn't_ futile. Simply having files of
information about fascist groups and allowing them to speak for
themselves is all the effort that is needed to dispell them --
among the intelligent, I might add. No appeal to reason has ever
swayed a bigot, in my opinion, and I seriously doubt that it ever
will.
I took a magazine to work one day which delved into the history of
bigotry against blacks predicated upon various versions of various
religious mythologies. You've seen the comments, I'm sure, of how
none of the people on Noah's magic boat were black because blacks
were taken aboard as but one of the many other animals. According
to some brands of that religion, a female (always blame the female)
mated with a "Negro animal" and thus we have blacks today. (You
should see some of the photographs which were included in these
books in the centuries past, depicting 'negro animals.' Demonizing
is bad enough; making the enemy less than human is what helps
nations feel no moral difficulty in slaughtering the peoples of
other nations -- or the peoples of their own. Or enslaving them.)
One of the new hires where I worked saw his brand's race mythology
being reviewed -- blacks, according to his version, were caused when
the 'Cain' of the 'Cain and Able' mythologies was 'marked' for
having gutted Able with a number 7 golf iron -- or whatever was
used those days before the invention of snub-nosed hand guns. He is
told that blacks aren't allowed into his 'heaven' because they are
decended from 'Cain.' That's a good excuse to keep blacks out of
his church, you see.
Was he angry? You bet. Could he deny the details of the quick
overview? Well, no. But that didn't stop him from being very
angry... angry enough to ask if he could keep the magazine to show
FidoNews 12-14 Page: 5 03 Apr 1995
his leaders. Why he was angry gets complicated, I think, because
he couldn't very well claim that the review was mistaken. He was
most probably angry because the vehicle for his bigotry was exposed
outside of the context within which it is usually given: in his
church, a place where questioning the dogma is forbidden.
My point is that having such materials available and not making any
commentary other than to label it for what it is should be enough.
If growing mindless conformity broadens to include the belief that
such materials be censored based upon the belief that people will
download them and adopt their fascist philosophies, I think that
the censors instigate the growth of the very thing they mistakenly
seek to stop.
What a fun subject, ay? I can't help but feel that we'll weather
the current dark age and emerge the stronger for it. Networks such
as FidoNet and Internet can't help but be a good tool for keeping
the windows open and the light shining through -- even if we have to
expose the darkness. <laughing!> Lovely rhetoric.
Fredric L. Rice
1:102/890 (818) 335-9601
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Legal Briefs: The Judge has no Clothes
From: Fredric Rice (1:102/890)
FidoNews 12-11: 'I have been discussing the proposed ECROC
standard with a sysop on the NEWSCHAT echo. He is all for
it, as he wants to prevent moderators from ejecting anyone
from an echo without "due process".'
Greetings, Editrix. I suspect that the individual who contrived
such a plan simply didn't think about the consequences and merely
has a bone to pick with the moderator of a specific forum. The
call for making each and every forum a legalistic pseudo-democracy
with mob rule goes against every ideal and reason FidoNet has
developed upon. The suggestion simply has no benefits to offer
and as such holds no merit.
I will go one step beyond and take another position which _does_
have benefits to offer. We've discussed this subject somewhat and
there is a great deal of support for it. Specifically, the
suggestion that anyone who threatens or makes good on his or her
threat to take legal action against another SysOp should be
grounds for having the individual ejected from the network
immediatly without any recourse to being allowed back in.
As you've mentioned before, anyone with a valid case against a
SysOp would face ejection under that rule and my response is:
good. That's perfectly acceptable.
In our liticious society, anyone who is forced to face an
uncomfortable truth and is incapable of defending his posistion
FidoNews 12-14 Page: 6 03 Apr 1995
through rational argument finds that the only way to strike out
and make the hurtful truth shut up is to threaten law suit. This
goes against the whole structure of FidoNet and Internet where
open dialog and understanding -- and yes, out-right flame wars --
are expected and perfectly reasonable means of communication.
Complaints otherwise are always (and rightfully) greeted with the
fact that the door is always open and one is free to leave.
Such a rule as ejecting anyone who threatens legal action against
a SysOp has the benefit of making hot-headed argument loosers
think twice; most of the times it would make them think at all.
In addition, it wouldn't detract one iota from an individual with
a valid legal complaint from taking the SysOp to court. It would
mean the loss of their FidoNet access, sure, yet for something an
individual thinks strongly warrants legal action, the loss of
FidoNet connectivity should be of no further concern.
I'm sure that as FidoNet grows ever larger and more and more users
recognize the benefits of uncensored, non-commercial networks,
more and more people who loose their arguments and try to defend
unsupportable posistions will end up with their backs to the wall
and human ego being what it is in an ever increasingly liticious
society, _eventually_ FidoNet rules are going to have to adopt
such a measure. True, perhaps not as strict as I suggest --
surely some will argue that valid legal suits shouldn't cause the
ejection of an individual -- yet eventually, I feel, something
will need to be put in place to squelch the artifacts of human
frailty and ego which threatens to bring down the whole house down
upon the rest of us.
That's my opinion. It damn well should be everyone's.
I might also add that the subject you brought up is greatly
related to my comments above. How long will it be before someone
points at a FidoNet echo and demands that it must go -- then
takes the moderator of the forum and "corrupt FidoNet officials"
to court?
Fredric L. Rice.
1:102/890 (818) 335-9601
----------------------------------------------------------------------
F.A.C.TNet reports serious censorship attempts
From: Fredric Rice (1:102/890)
Rcvd: Fri 31 Mar 19:23
To: Fredric Rice (1:102/890.0) (818) 335-9601
Fwd: Message from FACTNet
Date: Mon, 27 Mar 1995 17:26:49 -0500
In article <3l5d8t$is4@news.primenet.com> you write:
Lawrence asked me to post this.
FidoNews 12-14 Page: 7 03 Apr 1995
SUBJECT: EMERGENCY MESSAGE TO INTERNET USERS INTERESTED IN PROTECTING
THE FREEDOM OF information on the THE INTERNET
FROM LAWRENCE WOLLERSHEIM CO DIRECTOR OF FACTNET
For those of you unfamiliar with me I am a co-director of the
United States non profit 501(c)(3) victim advocacy organization
and electronic library and archive called FACTNet. We provide
electronic information on dangerous cultic groups like
Jonestown, Waco, the Swiss Solar Temple, and Scientology. Lately
we have focused on public records and research information on
Scientology because of the dangerousness of this group, its
economic size, and its worldwide history of criminality.
Scientology has responded to our collecting and electronic
making available of these public records by threatening our
organization with 4 lawsuits using three different law firms
covering everything from copyright infringement to libel and
slander. They have followed and intimidated our staff, attempted
to infiltrate to possibly sabotage our organization, threatened
our Internet Web page provider with a lawsuit, and they have
even threatened to sue our secure mail and offices services
provider (Mail Boxes Etc.) if they even send out another fax out
for us.
Through Scientology's now notorious overt and covert operations
(just one was as widespread anonymous mailings calling FACTNet's
Board of Directors and network associates everything from
criminals, perverts, con men, CIA operatives to insane)
Scientology seems to be taking every step to destroy our ability
to archive and preserve public records and research and make
those records available to the public who wants them now or who
will want this information in the future. Over the past year
FACTNet has been able to survive this onslaught, but we are a
small humbly funded all volunteer organization and are getting
to the point that if our insurance premium is raised because of
all these new threatened lawsuits we will not be able to
continue to exist. (We are paying $1,000 a month in insurance
now.) We also are concerned the library and archive may soon be
made unavailable to the public because we believe that we are
about to be raided and our equipment seized. We believe
Scientology is preparing to do a search and seizure of our
premises based on false affidavits and illegal applications of
copyright law as it applies to religious freedom. This raid
expectation is not at all paranoid. This just happened to Dennis
Erlich an outspoken Scientology Internet critic.
Although our organization is expendable and our staff have come
to grips with we may be run out of operation by the nazi tactics
of Scientology, the information in our library is NOT expendable
and much of it is NOT replaceable. We urgently need you to help
us frustrate this new "electronic book and library burning"
evolution of Nazism for the 90's called Scientology. Do this by
downloading as much of our library as you can to safe places
around the world and helping get our report out.
FidoNews 12-14 Page: 8 03 Apr 1995
It is very important for you to help us tell the Internet and
non internet world what is happening to us. Pass and copy this
message to other BBS's, other libraries and library
associations, and other Internet Newsgroups so that everyone who
should know about this new Scientology form of electronic book
and library burning and intimidation on the Net will be
informed. (We simply do not know everyone to turn to and who is
best out there that can help us frustrate Scientology's efforts
to destroy our library and to curtail Internet freedom of
information.)
If others are informed maybe they will know what to do to
creatively and ethically to show this neo nazi cult the power of
free and open dialog and what will happen to them when brave
individuals and brave coalitions are willing to fight for this
valuable freedom which libraries and archives such as we at
FACTNet help preserve. For those faint hearted who have heard
what Scientology does to its critics, take heart. It is not
generally known, but if you can last the harassment Scientology
is horribly unsuccessful in the courts. It really has NO
victories other than intimidating critics by spending or scaring
them into silence. Like cowards Scientology usually only attacks
those who have no insurance or whom they believe are weak or
they can intimidate or wear down.
I do not say the following lightly or for effect. Scientology
really IS the new face of Nazism, a "white" collar new evolution
of Nazism drawn in substantial part from the worst of the secret
society principles and occultism of the old Nazism. (FACTNet has
a report coming out soon on all the details of this.) For those
of you who understand what Nazism does if it is not resisted and
understand the "NEVER AGAIN" painful lessons learned from the
rise of the first generation of Nazism we invite you to stand
with FACTNet to stop or frustrate this ruthless organization's
efforts before it destroys our library.
If you are going to help you must act now! We have only a matter
of a few weeks left before we may loose our insurance and be
forced to go off line because of Scientology's activities. Begin
downloading all of or the best of our library so the information
is preserved.
Our direct BBS # in the U.S. is 1-303-530-1942. Call this number
and follow the instructions on the screen. (There is no
downloading charge and the downloading is unlimited.)
Thank you for your help, ideas and courage in advance,
Lawrence Wollersheim
Lawrence Wollersheim, Co-founder and Executive director of F.A.C.TNet,
Denver, Colorado, USA e-mail: lawrence@factnet.org
FidoNews 12-14 Page: 9 03 Apr 1995
Who Owns an Echo?
by Jerry Schwartz 1:142/928
Who Owns an Echo?
It is clear to me that Bob Moravsik and I are not likely to reach
any agreement on this subject; he would likely object to the very
title of my submission. Nonetheless, since I have strong
feelings about this issue and a personal interest in it (I
moderate a fairly large echo, WINDOWS), I can't resist at least
asserting my position.
Quite simply, I believe that a moderator DOES own an echo. He
acquires it by election, by inheritance, or by an act of
creation. Like any saloon-keeper, the moderator can set any tone
he likes. Some echos are rough-and-tumble, some more formal;
some encourage "vigorous" debate, some allow no debate at all;
some adhere to a strict definition of topicality, some do not.
Those are individual choices by the moderator, and he must be
allowed to enforce them. If the participants in an echo don't
like the moderator's style, then they can very easily form
another echo more to their taste. My own echo has schismed
several times, not because of any issues of moderation but
because some people found it hard to track subtopics in such a
big echo.
I didn't have to give my permission for this; I wasn't always
consulted, although in some cases I was; and that doesn't matter,
because I COULD NOT HAVE STOPED IT even if I had tried. About
the only thing I could have done was to force the moderators of
the other echos out of mine. That would have been stupid and
spiteful, and probably would have driven yet more people out of
"my" echo.
It is absurdly easy to start a new echo; in the last two years
the number of echos on the backbone has almost doubled. No
moderator has a monopoly on a topic, and that's a fact. There
are plenty of saloons in cyberspace, and plenty of vacant lots,
too. It's no great tragedy if some moderator takes his style
from the Red Queen and entirely depopulates his echo; it just
frees up bandwidth for others.
As to the matter of "proving" that a rule has been violated,
etc., before someone's access can be cut - well, that isn't
always easy. For example, my echo seems to attract a certain
number of juvenile Beavis and Butthead wannabes who will suddenly
post a dozen obscene, taunting messages. I'm not about to start
building a case, sending multiple netmail warnings, etc.; I will
pull their plug as soon as I can crash mail to the offender's
home node. In such situations, speed is important if I hope to
maintain any kind of control.
A somewhat similar problem arises when someone announces that he
disagrees with the rules and intends to ignore them. That's gets
FidoNews 12-14 Page: 10 03 Apr 1995
you the gate immediately, too.
In other situations, the offense may not be clearcut to someone
who hasn't been following the echo for months. There are not a
few individuals who seem to enjoy walking the edge, constantly
testing to see what they can get away with. Some of these folks
eventually become good citizens; some eventually get their access
cut, even though no handful of messages necessarily proves the
point. To expect me to argue a case before a tribunal of some
sort is an imposition. For how many months would something like
this be dragged out, months during which the offender would be
essentially untouchable.
Finally, what could possibly be the benefit of forcing a
moderator to tolerate behavior that he has declared
inappropriate? Moderators do not have any ability to control the
posting of messages before the fact; they cannot remove messages
after the fact; they cannot edit them; and they cannot force any
system to carry them. The ONLY things a moderator has going for
him are the degree of respect he has earned, and the ability in
extremis to cut someone's access.
Putting every decision up for appeal to some outside authority
can only undercut a moderator and make it impossible for him to
use the best tool he has: persuasion. The first time it becomes
known that a moderator's decision was overturned, he becomes
powerless.
Any sysop who disagrees with my opinion can start their own echo,
and/or stop carrying mine. It's that simple.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
========================================================================
Fidonews Information
========================================================================
------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------
Editors: Donald Tees, Sylvia Maxwell
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell,
Vince Perriello, Tim Pozar
Tom Jennings
"FidoNews" BBS
FidoNet 1:1/23
BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS)
more addresses:
Rev. Richard Visage -- 1:163/409
Don -- 1:221/192, don@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
Sylvia -- 1:221/194, max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com
(Postal Service mailing address)
FidoNews
FidoNews 12-14 Page: 11 03 Apr 1995
128 Church St.
Kitchener, Ontario
Canada
N2H 2S4
voice: (519) 570-3137
Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of the FIDONET
INTERNATIONAL AMATEUR ELECTRONIC MAIL system. It is a compilation
of individual articles contributed by their authors or their
authorized agents. The contribution of articles to this compilation
does not diminish the rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in
these articles are those of the authors and not necessarily those of
FidoNews.
Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
Copyright 1995 Donald Tees. All rights reserved. Duplication
and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use
in other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or the eds.
Articles by Madam emilia may be retransmitted freely through
cyber-space.
OBTAINING COPIES: The most recent issue of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained by sending SASE to the above paper-mail
address, or trade for copy of your 'zine.
INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org,
in directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews.
Anyone interested in getting a copy of the INTERNET GATEWAY FAQ may
freq GISFAQ.ZIP from 1:133/411.0, or send an internet message to
fidofaq@gisatl.fidonet.org. No message or text or subject is
necessary. The address is a keyword that will trigger the automated
response. People wishing to send inquiries directly to David Deitch
should now mail to fidonet@gisatl.fidonet.org rather than the
previously listed address.
SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it.
"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission.
"the pulse of the cursor is the heartbeat of fidonet"...
-- END
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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