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F I D O N E W S -- | Vol. 10 No. 6 (8 February 1993)
A newsletter of the |
FidoNet BBS community | Published by:
_ |
/ \ | "FidoNews" BBS
/|oo \ | +1-415-863-2739
(_| /_) | NEW!--> 1:1/23@FidoNet
_`@/_ \ _ | editor@fidonews.fidonet.org
| | \ \\ |
| (*) | \ )) | Editors:
|__U__| / \// | Tom Jennings
_//|| _\ / | Tim Pozar
(_/(_|(____/ |
(jm) | Newspapers should have no friends.
| -- JOSEPH PULITZER
----------------------------+---------------------------------------
/*********************************************************************
* IMPORTANT NOTE: The FidoNet address for FidoNews has been changed. *
* The new address is: *
* *
* FidoNews = 1:1/23 *
* *
* Starting January 1993 email sent to the old address will not be *
* forwarded! You were warned! *
*********************************************************************/
For information, copyrights, article submissions, obtaining copies and
other boring but important details, please refer to the end of this
file.
Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL ..................................................... 1
Editorial: FORMAT C: .......................................... 1
2. ARTICLES ...................................................... 3
Brief update on Suchit Nanda's article ........................ 3
Nodelist.036's Error Impacts on Golded Users .................. 3
Policy 4.1 - It won't hurt you ................................ 5
FSC-XXXX Encrypted message Kludge Proposal .................... 6
Z1C candidates -- ............................................. 8
-- oops -- too late! .......................................... 8
A Wake Up Call! ............................................... 9
Australian Gay Pride Mardi Gras Broadcast ..................... 9
COMPUSALE ECHO BACKBONED ...................................... 11
MageNet, Introducing a pagan network .......................... 11
3. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .......................................... 13
FidoNews 10-06 Page 1 8 Feb 1993
======================================================================
EDITORIAL
======================================================================
Editorial: FORMAT C:
by Tom Jennings (1:1/23)
A few items of note this week.
The search for a new FidoNews editor is under way. Below is a list of
all of the qualified applicants, meaning they're in FidoNet, sent in
info about themselves, etc. This list is in NO PARTICULAR ORDER so
don't read anything into that. Acknowledgement form-letters were sent
out about an hour ago.
QUALIFIED APPLICANTS:
Sylvia Maxwell & Donald Tees@1:221/192 (as a team)
jack@myamiga.mixcom.com (Jack Decker)
Jennifer Therrien@1:3623/4
Kief Morris@1:110/210
Bryce Moore@1:291/22
Bev Freed@1:129/104
Brayden Wise@1:353/330
Glen Johnson@1:2605/269
Darren Leno@1:115/747
Richard Bash@1:105/68
Out of that list, I am considering the following as likely candidates
for editor, based upon the contents of their resume'/application.
(They haven't been informed of this yet; this is a public process...)
If you have something to say about any of these candidates please do
so, but keep in mind the following: this isn't a popularity contest,
and "the most votes" won't win. The issue is competence. Recounting
personal run-ins with someone may be cogent, personality attacks are
not, and are boring besides. Being in really tight with ANY existing
infrastructure, or being in FidoNet since 1920 isn't necessarily good;
a fresh approach to things is more important.
APPLICANTS UNDER CONSIDERATION:
Sylvia Maxwell & Donald Tees@1:221/192 (as a team)
Jennifer Therrien@1:3623/4
Kief Morris@1:110/210
Bryce Moore@1:291/22
Bev Freed@1:129/104
All correspondence, including resume'/applications, is contained in
the file NE-ED available from the FidoNews BBS or by filerequest.
FidoNews 10-06 Page 2 8 Feb 1993
IS THERE A PROGRAMMER IN THE HOUSE?!
It seems the venerable MAKENL program, written by Ben Baker in 1985 or
so, needs a look-see, or heaven forbid, a replacement. It's served us
well all these years, outlasting huge chunks of the network itself.
The nodelist and the network are both 100 TIMES LARGER than when
MAKENL was written! Gimme a break! Any angry energy you're thinking of
sending MAKENLs way would be better spent writing a replacement. Ben's
done his part and then some, so don't go whine. Offer to fix, or
replace. (PS: It won't be me.) And thanks to Tom Hall, for his
article in this issue outlining what the problem is! (I thought it was
just me...)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 10-06 Page 3 8 Feb 1993
======================================================================
ARTICLES
======================================================================
From: Suchit Nanda@6:606/1
To: Tom Jennings@1:1/23
Subject: BBS in India
Hi Tom,
Read my article "BBS in India" in the FidoNews. I would like to
express my gratitude for the same.
I hope to continue in the spread and betterment of FidoNet. If there
is anything that I can do for you this side of the world, please don't
hesitate to shoot off a mail in this direction.
For your information, the Live Wire! BBS is doing just great. We now
have a dedicated line for the BBS and I shall be expanding our connect
hours to almost 20hrs daily. Shall keep you posted on the developments
here.
Just one small favour to ask of you. The article was printed in Nov'92
since then I have a new number 91-22-5787812 for my BBS and the old
one 5781132 is reverted back to being my voice only number. Also, my
timings as of now remain 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. (local time +5.5
GMT). I am getting quite a few international calls on my voice number
so could you kindly inform the readers about this change?
Warm regards,
Suchit Nanda
SysOp - Live Wire! BBS
FidoNet: 6:606/1
Internet: Suchit.Nanda@f1.n606.z6.fidonet.org
Add: C-503, Eden-4, Hiranandani Gardens, Powai Lake, Bombay 400076. INDIA.
BBS: +91-22-5787812
Voice: +91-22-5781132
----------------------------------------------------------------------
by Tom Hall (1:342/1), NC, Net 342
Nodelist Problems Cost Sysops *MEGA* Bucks!
Sun 02-07-1993
After a _lot_ of work over the past two days, including a voice
conversation last night with Michael Ernst, moderator of the GOLDED
and GOLDED.BETA echoes, I've come up with the following information
which will probably be of interest to users of Golded, based on what
has happened with the issue of this week's nodelist.
FidoNews 10-06 Page 4 8 Feb 1993
=================================================
From NODEDIFF.036 (information modified to conform to Fidonews
submission guidelines):
A1
,565,Point_In_The_Dark,Huber_Heights_OH,Scott_Sweet,1-513-233-7728
,2400,CM <ascii 13>,XA
=================================================
The ascii 13 character which appeared in this week's nodediff caused
certain nodelist processors, most notably Xlaxdiff 2.54, to choke. I
grabbed a copy of Xlaxnode 2.56 from one of my local nodes, and it
_appeared_ to solve the problem by producing a new nodelist without a
CRC error. HOWEVER, the new nodelist, when compiled by Goldnode,
Golded's own nodelist compiler, the nodelist browser feature of
Golded, one of its most power, and probably most often-used, features
was badly broken.
For Golded users, there appear to be two options:
1. Run with a nodelist that contains a CRC error, so that you can
continue to use your nodelist browser, or
2. Run with a nodelist that has no CRC error, and be unable to use
your nodelist browser.
For people like myself, who have registered Golded, option 1 is hardly
desirable. For NC's like myself (not to mention most Fidonet sysops),
option 2 is not that palatable either... :-)
The reason that Golded's nodelist browser seems to choke on the
nodelist that is free of CRC errors is that, after merging the new
nodediff with the old nodelist, the ascii 13 character is translated
such that the nodelist segment for Net 110 looked like this after
Xlaxdiff 2.56 had done its thing:
=================================================
LIST 1532 06% 02/07/93 09:45 NODELIST.036
,560,Silver_Dragon's_Den,West_Carrollton_OH,Robert_Nelson,
1-513-866-8425,9600,CM
,565,Point_In_The_Dark,Huber_Heights_OH,Scott_Sweet,1-513-233-7728,
2400,CM<actual nodelist line breaks here>
,XA
,575,D_&_J's_Psycho,Dayton_OH,Jamie_Vaughn,1-513-294-2958,2400,XA
=================================================
Xlaxnode 2.56 did not complain about the nodediff, nor did it
apparently have any problems compiling the nodelist, looking as it
does above.
FidoNews 10-06 Page 5 8 Feb 1993
This is how the nodelist _should_ look after merging NODEDIFF.036 --
but, unfortunately, it also contains a CRC error, introduced by my
manually editing the difference file to remove the unwanted ascii 13.
=================================================
LIST 1532 06% 02/06/93 20:21 e:\offload\NODELIST.036
,560,Silver_Dragon's_Den,West_Carrollton_OH,Robert_Nelson,
1-513-866-8425,9600,CM
,565,Point_In_The_Dark,Huber_Heights_OH,Scott_Sweet,1-513-233-7728,
2400,CM,XA
,575,D_&_J's_Psycho,Dayton_OH,Jamie_Vaughn,1-513-294-2958,2400,XA
=================================================
Why MAKENL, the program that produced both the submission file that
contained the error, and the nodediff which compounded that error and
created a major headache for thousands of Fidonet sysops, has not been
fixed, is not a matter I am in a position to comment on. What I _can_
comment on, though, is the fact that MAKENL's failure to address the
problem of illegal characters appearing in submittal files and
nodediffs has caused considerable problems for many people -- and the
only apparent fix will be for many of these people to obtain a
completely new nodelist file -- a task which will dump a horrendous
amount of money into the pockets of Ma Bell.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Policy 4.1 - It won't hurt you
By Glen Johnson 1:2605/269
First off, I just want express (again) my disappointment that TJ is
bailing out of the Fidonews business. Personally, I would have
preferred that we hang this thing around his neck for the rest of
his life. I think his editorial policy is superb, and I sure hope that
whoever replaces him, keeps it. If its Fidonet-related, Tom prints it.
That's the way it should stay. Ok, so much for that.
I gathered from Chris Harper's Fidonews 1005 article that he was a tad
upset about a few things :) . And I was distressed at his prediction
that the Policy 4.1 proposal will drop dead because the "power-mad"
coordinators won't give up control that easily. Hmmmm, I'm not so sure.
See, the point we're at now, is the RCs have the thing. All they're
doing is deciding whether or not to allow ALL the coordinators to vote
on it, that's all. The Regional Coordinators couldn't make 4.1 the law
of the land on their own even if they wanted to. It has to be ratified
by the NCs, RCs, and ZCs, just like 4.07 was.
On the other hand, its quite possible that 4.1 could die in a
referendum. WorldPol did, 4.07 didn't . If it does go to referendum,
and fails, then I guess 4.1 isn't what we want.
FidoNews 10-06 Page 6 8 Feb 1993
I'm sure that there will be Regional Coordinators that will support a
referendum on it even if they personally aren't thrilled with it
themselves. Again, what this is about is letting the entire coordinator
structure decide the issue. And I believe that most RCs will support
the right of their NCs to vote on this thing, and bring it to a
referendum. Power-happy coordinators in Fidonet are the exception, and
I think we'll see that as the RCs decide to bring 4.1 up for a vote.
And Rick Moen is right, 4.1 isn't going to hurt you :) Its going to
let you vote for your coordinators. If you and everyone else in your
net absolutely adore your NC, then you'll elect him/her in a landslide
and keep the coordinators you want. You will GET who you WANT.
Operationally, 4.1 changes virtually nothing. The mail will still flow
the way it does right now, etc. But what 4.1 will do is GIVE the
coordinators the mandate they need. There will never be any question
that the reason Joe Scho is RC, is because the sysops in that Region
want him there .
The current ZC election for example, wouldn't be permitted under
Policy 4.1 . First of all, when the election was first announced, the
rules were that sysops couldn't run. After making enough noise about
that, the rules were changed. Now sysops can RUN, but they can't
VOTE. How utterly ridiculous is that? Some of the candidates can vote
for themselves (because they're RCs and they GET a vote) while MOST of
the candidates can't vote AT ALL. So, some candidates have at least
one vote GUARANTEED.
What if we told Ross Perot that he couldn't vote for himself for
president because he didn't hold public office, but its ok for Bush
and Clinton to vote? Ridiculous.
Policy 4.1 lets sysops seek coordinator positions, and vote for them.
It won't hurt you, I guarantee it :)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FSC-XXXX Encrypted message Kludge Proposal
Version 1.0, Jan/92, FLRice
WHY ANOTHER KLUDGE?
The transport of encrypted mail through FidoNet systems is not
allowed as described in Policy IV (in effect as of this date)
unless all SysOps involved in the transport of same offers his
or her agreement to transport encrypted mail prior to its
transport.
A series of Secure Mail HUBs have been overlayed upon the Fido
Network. These Secure Mail systems take the responsibility for
transporting encrypted mail.
FidoNews 10-06 Page 7 8 Feb 1993
Messages must be determined to contain encrypted mail so that
the following actions may be taken in an automated manor:
o Return the encrypted mail to the origination site.
This may be done in the event a SysOp acquires
encrypted mail that they do not wish to forward
o Re-Route it to a specific Secure Mail HUB system.
The SMH will take care of further transport.
o Route it to the destination system.
o Move them to a subdirectory for later death. This
is an option for SysOps who do not wish to bother
with encrypted mail one way or another.
(There is a utility called ENC-TOSS which will do this.
Its executable works on PC/MS-DOS machines yet the C
source code is available for Unix/Mac et al. SysOps.)
TECHNICAL DETAILS OF THE KLUDGE:
^AENC: {Product Identification}
|| | |__________________________ Example: PGP 2.1
|| | The product identification code
|| | will denote the encryption
|| | package used upon the message.
|| | No length restrictions are implied.
|| |
|| |_____________________________ A : fllowed by none or any number
|| of spaces. Typically, one space
|| will follow the : character.
||
||________________________________ ENC keyword.
|
|_________________________________ A HEX 0x01 character which
denotes the existance of a kludge
COMPLIANCE REQUEST:
Who holds the task for putting the ^ENC kludge into outbound mail?
Well, message editors should yet that's something that will
probably never happen or will take a long time. There is a utility
planned called ENC-PUT.EXE (ENC-PUT.LZH) which will be released
which will allow the ^ENC kludge to be put into all *.MSG message
files in a specified subdirectory or RA/QBBS folder. (SQUISH will
be added when I get the information on the data base formats I need.)
It can also bring-up a list of messages in a folder and allow
specific messages to be tagged. When through tagging, all selected
messages will have the ^ENC put in them if not already present.
FidoNews 10-06 Page 8 8 Feb 1993
Compliance to this proposal will help greatly in the realization
of encrypted mail in this domain.
ADDITIONALS:
Contact Fredric Rice (The Skeptic Tank, 1:102/890.0; (818)914-9551)
for information on the uility ENC-TOSS, PGP-TOSS and ENC-PUT.
Additions to the kludge should be suggested to my system as soon as
possible.
NOTE:
My phone line is disconnected. If you route to 1:102/851 or 1:102/0
I'll get it while the line is down.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The cards and letters are arriving daily!
Don Dawson 1:141/730 (aka 1:16/0)
The following sysops have indicated their interest in serving you as Z1C:
Ben Mann - 1:151/2
Rich Wood - 1:278/3
Kevin Mcneil - 1:128/45
Jim Bodine - 1:141/415
Matt Ionson - 1:3619/24
Bob Satti - 1:153/6
John Summers - 1:124/4103
Gary Johnson - 1:203/151
Peter Zurich - 1:2604/3
Mark Skaff - 1:163/525
Paul Williams - 1:2410/116
Ron Poulin - 1:143/370
Rick Haburne - 1:116/2
DAN GUENTHNER - 1:152/48
Tim Pearson - 1:286/703
--end of list--
as of 2/1/93, 03:01EST, no further additions to come
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Dave James@1:209/209
To: FidoNews@1:1/23
Subject: Zone 1 ZEC Voting Statistics
* Original to Dave James at 1:209/209 in "netmail"
* Forwarded Sat Feb 06 1993 10:03:20 by Dave James at 1:209/209
Here is how the voting went for ZEC for Zone 1 ...
FidoNews 10-06 Page 9 8 Feb 1993
Region 19 Dan Buda
Region 18 Dav Buda
Region 17 Dan Buda
Region 16 Dan Buda
Region 15 Dan Buda
Region 14 Dan Buda
Region 13 Dan Buda
Region 12 Dan Buda
Region 11 Dan Buda
Region 10 Dan Buda
Dan Buda is now the new ZEC! Congratulations Dan!!!
Dave James, Zone Hub 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A Wake Up Call!
by Adam Katz (1:373/25)
What I have to say is short and to the point. Being a new member of
Fidonet, I am dismayed after reading the last few issues of Fido News.
All I have seen is petty bickering, power ploys, and plain and simple
political manuvering in regards to a ZEC problem (among other things).
Wake up, people! From the little I know about FidoNet, you are all
wasting time bickering about past events, errors in judgement, or
whatever else you would like to call it. We all need to look towards
postive things within this organization and, instead of complaining,
come up with comstructive ideas for improvement on current
policies/procedures.
I believe that this is going on right now in regards to Policy 4
updating. Changes don't happen overnight but if you continue focusing
on problems instead of solutions, what positive results do you expect
to end up with?
Think about it...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Rosie Cross 3:712/634@fidonet
rx@asstdc.oz.au Internet
From : Rosie Cross [POST 02-Feb-1993 16:46]
To : All
Subject: Mardi Gras
FidoNews 10-06 Page 10 8 Feb 1993
Dear All,
Please spread the word that this year's Sydney Gay and Lesbian,
*Mardi Gras* celebrations will be broadcast live at the event by RSR,
88*9 fm...
RSR fm, is once again proud to support the Mardi Gras, and we
endeavour to incorporate a plethora of news, views and opinions both
international and local..
The title of this years broadcast... "Straight, Dyke and Poof; but
all *Queer*!"
I am proud to be associated with this event and delighted to be one of
the three announcers..:)
Last year the broadcast entertained PLWA's (People Living with
Aids), at St.Vincents hospice, and many other people who were unable
to attend the Mardi Gras parade or party.
It is hoped that this year we will have an international overview of
gay and lesbian politics, and information with contributions from
London, Tokyo and San Fransisco..
I am rallying support, encouragement and contributions for this
coalition event..Anyone who would like to participate can either
contact RSR on +(61-2)550-9552, or post messages in this conference,
(or help by forwarding news of the event to other nodes)...
I am more than happy to read out announcements of support on/air, or
messages from around the Global Net, which reflect support,warmth and
solidarity..
Being Gay is not a requirement...!
*MARDI GRAS BROADCAST*
RSR...88*9 FM, SYDNEY, AUSTRALIA
27TH FEB,1993..
STARTS 6PM..
PARADE AT APPROXIMATELY 9.20PM..
:-) In advance, Hug..
r
cr o ss
s
i
e
FidoNews 10-06 Page 11 8 Feb 1993
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Kyle Hearn
1:130/1008
2/6/93
by Kyle Hearn, 130/1008
Computer Only Sale Echo Makes It To The Backbone
After about two or three months, the Compusale echo has reached
backbone status with the help of a lot of people around the U.S.A.
The echo is designed to be a place where those looking to buy and sell
computer hardware and software both privately and commercially can do
so without looking in a commercial echo, then a private sale echo and
then scanning past ads for furniture or cars, etc.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
By David Lyle
(1:109/155@fidonet)
Introduction to MageNet, the pagan network
I would like to introduce you to a small, but rapidly growing fidonet
technology network, called MageNet.
MageNet was formed to provide in-depth discussions of interest to
Pagans, the pagan community, Occultists, and those just interested
in the Occult, Shamanism, and Earth Based religions.
MageNet is operated and moderated by some of the real movers and
shakers, and highly respected members of the pagan community.
This network, which already has nodes internationally, is growing
rapidly in it's first few weeks of operation, and promises to grow -
even as the interest in the environment and paganism continues to grow
worldwide.
If you would be interested in joining MageNet, please netmail myself
(David Lyle) @ 1:109/155@Fidonet for membership information.
Here's some of the echos currently being carried by MageNet:
WITCHES - For ALL varieties of witches, wicca or not.
Topics include everything from spell craft to party planning
BARDTALE - For pagan musicians or those just interested in pagan music.
FidoNews 10-06 Page 12 8 Feb 1993
Moderated by a pagan musician with over 15 years study of
music and voice.
PAGANLIT - For pagan writers or writings.
Moderated by a pagan novelist.
BARTER - Old-time barter and for sale echo.
Buy/Sell and Trade all sorts of things, from incense to
costume making.
TANTRA - For Tantra and sex magic, open only to adults 21 and older.
For very open and serious discussions. All sexual
preferances accepted.
WARRIOR - For all pagan warrior traditions, modern and historical.
Explore those traditions which have fought over the years
for our freedoms. Moderated by an active member of one
such organization.
RANGER - A Pagan 'woodsperson' echo. Topics range from wild edible
plants to self sufficiency and survival, methods of making
essential oils, healing and cooking herbalism.
FOLKLORE - Myths, legends and plain ol' 'folk'-lore. Everything from
stories to clothmaking to legends and lore.
COR - Washington, D.C. area 'Church of the Old Religion' echo.
COR is a Pagan Church, officially recognized by the U.S.
Gov't. Keep up with local and national COR events.
MILPAGAN - Pagans in the Military echo.
A contact point for pagans serving or discharged honorably
from military service (Currently United States military
only). Founder of this echo has formed an organization
to push the military to accept pagan chaplains, and
other benefits for pagans.
All you need to do to join MageNet is to send me (David Lyle) netmail at my
fidonet address (1:109/155), giving the basic info for our nodelist
and an AREAFIX password to use. I'll return to you a copy of the
nodelist and any other information.
If you would like to become a MageNet Hub in your area (we need one for
many states and countries), let me know in your application.
Cheers!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 10-06 Page 13 8 Feb 1993
======================================================================
FIDONEWS INFORMATION
======================================================================
------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------
Editors: Tom Jennings, Tim Pozar
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello
IMPORTANT NOTE: The FidoNet address of the FidoNews BBS has been
changed!!! Please make a note of this.
"FidoNews" BBS
FidoNet 1:1/23 <---- NEW ADDRESS!!!!
Internet fidonews@fidosw.fidonet.org
BBS +1-415-863-2739, 300/1200/2400/16800/V.32bis/Zyxel
(Postal Service mailing address) (have extreme patience)
FidoNews
c/o World Power Systems <---- don't forget this
Box 77731
San Francisco
CA 94107 USA
Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international
amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual
articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The
contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the
rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those
of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews.
Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
copyright 1992 Tom Jennings. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or
distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in
other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews
(we're easy).
OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each
PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere,
mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.)
BACK ISSUES: Available from FidoNet nodes 1:102/138, 1:216/21,
1:125/1212, (and probably others), via filerequest or download
(consult a recent nodelist for phone numbers).
A very nice index to the Tables of Contents to all FidoNews volumes
can be filerequested from 1:396/1 or 1:216/21. The name(s) to request
are FNEWSxTC.ZIP, where 'x' is the volume number; 1=1984, 2=1985...
through 8=1991.
FidoNews 10-06 Page 14 8 Feb 1993
INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.ieee.org, in
directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding
FidoNet, please direct them to deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org, not the
FidoNews BBS. (Be kind and patient; David Deitch is generously
volunteering to handle FidoNet/Internet questions.)
SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it.
"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, Box 77731, San Francisco CA 94107, USA and
are used with permission.
Asked what he thought of Western civilization,
M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea".
-- END
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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