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F I D O N E W S -- | Vol. 9 No. 35 (31 August 1992)
The newsletter of the |
FidoNet BBS community | Published by:
_ |
/ \ | "FidoNews" BBS
/|oo \ | (415)-863-2739
(_| /_) | FidoNet 1:1/1
_`@/_ \ _ | Internet:
| | \ \\ | fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org
| (*) | \ )) |
|__U__| / \// | Editors:
_//|| _\ / | Tom Jennings
(_/(_|(____/ | Tim Pozar
(jm) |
|
| Newspapers should have no friends.
| -- JOSEPH PULITZER
----------------------------+---------------------------------------
Published weekly by and for the Members of the FidoNet international
amateur network. Copyright 1992, Fido Software. All rights reserved.
Duplication and/or distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes
only. For use in other circumstances, please contact FidoNews.
Electronic Price: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . free!
Paper price: . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . $10.00US
For more information about FidoNews refer to the end of this file.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL ..................................................... 1
Editorial: Same old path ...................................... 1
2. ARTICLES ...................................................... 3
Hurricane Andrew Hits Miami ................................... 3
Zone 2 would-be dictators, a reply ............................ 4
Do *C's have really power ? ................................... 12
Finally, some REAL FidoGrunts<tm> ............................. 14
FidoNet Democracy: Long Overdue ............................... 15
A message to Tom .............................................. 16
The FidoNet Sysop's Bill of Rights ............................ 17
File Nets Need Better Descriptions ............................ 22
Zone 3 Hub/Gate change for A_THEIST/HOLYSMOKE/SKEPTIC Echos! .. 23
GAME_DESIGN A new echo for Game Programmers .................. 24
Tourette's Syndrome Echo ...................................... 24
Progressive News & Views ...................................... 24
3. FIDONEWS INFORMATION .......................................... 26
FidoNews 9-35 Page 1 31 Aug 1992
======================================================================
EDITORIAL
======================================================================
Editorial: Same Old path
by Tom Jennings (1:1/1)
The zone 2 holy war is quite well under way. Last week you saw an
article hopefully explaining some of the troubles with the
self-appointed heirarchy claiming control over the network, both as to
by whom and how it is run, and in many cases trying to control
*content*, by banishing conferences deemed "unacceptable" and by
"permanently" banishing sysops.
Last week there was an article by Henk Wevers of Holland; this week,
Ron Dwight, ZC2, has an article in response.
It seems obvious to mee that this is going to go on for a while, and
like previous network obsessions, could get tedious. So I am now
invoking recently-added FidoNews policy in order to keep the whole
thing understandable to all:
Quoting from ARTSPEC.DOC (2 Feb 92)
-----------------------
RESOLVING CONTROVERSIES: (v3)
Occasionally FidoNews is presented with a dillema: a
"controversial" article generates a seemingly endless
series of responses, commentary, rebuttals, etc, and threatens
to overwhelm FidoNews. How to stop the stop the flood without
violating the editorial policy? Here is the somewhat complex
solution:
If a particular article generates a cascade of responses, the
editor does two things: (1) chooses one or few of them as
representative; (2) passes them on to the original author, who
is asked to write a response within 2 weeks. The resulting
representative response(s), and the original authors response,
are run in the next possible FidoNews -- ONCE ONLY.
Interested parties can then pick up the torch and march with it
off the long or short pier of their choice.
End of ARTSPEC.DOC quotation.
So starting now, I will set aside articles I receive related to this
"war", and make them available as file "WAR", via the usual methods
(filerequest from 1:1/1 or manual download). What actually happens
will depend somewhat on the size and number of responses; if low
enough, I'll of course run them all. Hopefully, if authors can see
what will be coming up, via the WAR file, they can avoid asking the
same question twice, etc. I will make sure the process remains open.
FidoNews 9-35 Page 2 31 Aug 1992
This is slightly sticky because it'll probably be an ongoing thing.
In the mean time, and after, I'll probably run small articles,
especially if they're news-y and less than flame temperature.
The goal of course is to prevent an incomprehensible glut of
articles, but provide room for all to speak, as best as can be done
in a vehicle such as FidoNews. (And of course all articles submitted
will be available in the WAR file regardless of their status).
* * * * *
I am amazed at the number of people who completely missed my point
regarding "policy" in FidoNet. Let me make it crystal clear.
o I was not proposing that my, or anyone's "policy" document
become the latest object of worship.
o The only point of my "Articles of Confederation" was to make
a contrast with the overdetermined piece of crap being waved
around.
o Simplicity is possible, and desirable. If an ordinary human cannot
understand it, it is useless.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 9-35 Page 3 31 Aug 1992
======================================================================
ARTICLES
======================================================================
by Michele Stewart, 1:369/21
I Survived Hurricane Andrew... News at 11
At first we didn't believe it but on Saturday, not to take any chances,
my husband, Peter, went to the store anyway to make sure we had enough
food, candles, flashlights, batteries, tape and anything else he could
think of. The place was jammed to the rafters with every cart being
used at this area "super"store. We turned the TV news on that night and
haven't turned it off since.
Sunday, there was no doubt that Hurricane Andrew would hit our area; we
started to prepare by bringing into the house all loose objects, flower
pots, tools, etc., shoring up the fence, taping the windows, etc.
Unfortunately, by the time he'd made it to the lumber yard, Peter
discovered there was no more plywood to board up the windows with...
and where you could get it, people were charging $30 a board! Talk
about your carpetbaggers. We did the best we could with what we had.
Following instructions by area experts, we had three 5-gallon bottles
of drinking water, filled two empty 5-gallon bottles we had with tap
water and filled our tub with water as well. An evacuation order was
underway for people living near the coast and in high flood areas (not
us, thank goodness) and the shelters were starting to fill up while
others refused to leave their homes deciding to brave the imminent
danger.
By Sunday night, all buses had stopped running, the streets were pretty
much deserted except for the news teams, cops and one or two stubborn
individuals and all our computer equipment, modems, phones and
peripherals were completely disconnected in anticipation of the 150 mph
winds which were on their way. The power went out around 5:30am and
between the loss of power and turning on the radio to continue
listening to what was happening around the area, I could hear the winds
howling around the corners of our townhouse. Loud cracks outside
foretold of trees which had stood for years, snapping in two like
matchsticks... thuds across the roof testified to shingles being ripped
up and thrown around... torrents of rain attested to the flooding the
streets would be under...
We were up all night, huddled together watching the news on TV for as
long as possible and witnessing the winds tearing into our city... and
we, up in Broward County, at least 50 miles north of the eye of the
hurricane, were among the lucky ones?
By Monday afternoon, South Florida, more specifically, South Miami was
pretty much destroyed by Hurricane Andrew, a level 4 hurricane, and the
worst disaster to hit this area since the late 1920's.
FidoNews 9-35 Page 4 31 Aug 1992
I'll never forget the look on my neighbor's faces when we walked
outside to survey the damage. Trees were down everywhere, sometimes
having lifted the concrete sidewalks they were next to. Power lines
were down and debris was scattered. And we were lucky. 50-60 miles
south of us, though a different city and county, still a part of us as
we are a part of the whole South Florida area, mobile homes were
flattened, roofs of homes and department stores and offices were ripped
off and their contents scattered to the 4 winds.
Our power was restored by 8pm Monday night and now I could witness the
devastation left by Andrew. At least 15 people have died as a direct
result of the hurricane either by electrocution from downed power
lines, collapsed roofs and/or falling trees. Damage is estimated at
over $15 Billion dollars!!!! Thousands of people have lost their homes
and all their possessions. Looting is now of growing concern and the
police, national guard and Navy are doing all they can to stem the
tides. A curfew has been in effect for Dade County since Monday to help
stop the looters and protect citizens... Since there's no power, you
can't see where obstructions are and it can be very dangerous out
there.
It is anticipated that power will be out to some areas for anywhere
from one to 4 weeks! This makes it harder on everyone. The airports are
only partly open and President Bush has been down to visit us and
declared the area a National Disaster Site! Tell me something I don't
know.
Like I said, I am one of the lucky ones. But there are thousands of
people who are not as lucky and they need our help. I am going to a
local food drive site and drop off whatever food I can to help those
who now have nothing. I'm not sure what you can do but if you've a
mind, I imagine calling your local Red Cross office can help. It seems
logical that the National Red Cross would have info on what's needed
here, whether it's food, clothing, medical supplies, whatever. But help
is needed.
I don't know how many of my fellow Fidonet friends I have down here
still have their homes. I don't know who's been hit by this disaster
and who's safe and fine. No news is coming out of Miami from the net
since there's no power in the area. Good luck Louisiana.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 2 would-be dictators, a reply
by Ron Dwight on 2:220/22
In order to obtain a balanced view, it is reasonable, in most
societies, to listen to more than one side of a debate. I note
with some horror of the absolute failure of our current IC, Matt
Whelan, to follow this procedure, but I guess that is just a
sign of the times. I will try to present another side to this
saga in the hopes that it will become clear just who the "Zone 2
would-be dictators" are, in reality. I will try to answer as
concisely as possible each point which Henk Wevers makes and add
FidoNews 9-35 Page 5 31 Aug 1992
to this a couple of his own messages which hopefully will
demonstrate the point he is trying to make (or avoid making!).
--BEGIN--
It has been a long time since I was actively involved in the
politics in fidonet. It has become necessarily to do so, just to
be able to stay in fidonet.
---END---
I believe this is called "propaganda"! Henk Wevers's
node number has NEVER been under threat save for the time when
he informed us that he quit Fidonet should geographic nets be
imposed upon "his" region. This "pose" has since been withdrawn
when it was seen that he might be forced to live up to it.
--BEGIN--
For the hundreds of sysops......
---END---
There is little need to quote the large chunk which I
have ommitted, it can be briefly summed up as "I formed zone 2
and You OWE me". Neither FidoNet as a whole nor zone 2 in
particular owe either Henk or the HCC any debt, save perhaps for
gratitude. Starting a net does NOT give anyone the right to
flout the rules which we have all agreed to abide by. We all
understand Henk was disappointed by the acceptance of Policy 4,
I was even disappointed myself but FidoNet is NOT the servant of
the HCC and it should not be allowed to become subservient to
it.
--BEGIN--
So if you look at fidonet in region 28 today and you want to
join fidonet you have three choices: The regional net, and one
of the club nets if you are a member.
---END---
Here is a CLEAR admission that membership of FidoNet
nets is SUBSERVIENT to the will of the "clubs", you may join one
of the club nets, IF YOU ARE A MEMBER. One of the fundamental
reasons for the creation of a policy, which TJ so obviously
dislikes, is the PROTECTION of the freedom and rights of the
SysOp. Policy 4 makes certain GUARANTEES to new SysOps. It
GUARANTEES that a SysOp may join a local net for the purposes of
NetMail handling. Region 28 makes NO such guarantees unless you
are member of a particular "club", even then you may be forced
to make long distance calls to obtain mail. Just who is it that
is being restrictive here, Policy or Henk Wevers and his "clubs"?
You may ask, "but that's ok, we can create more nets".
I agree, this would be a reasonable thing to do, but this
question has already been asked in region 28 and the answer came
back from the RC "We already have enough nets in region 28". Does
this sound to you like a region in which "freedom" has gone
walk-about?
FidoNews 9-35 Page 6 31 Aug 1992
--BEGIN--
we solved the problem in region 28 in the beginning of this year
by establishing one central echomail hub where all nets connect.
The hub would be paid for by all participants. To solve the
problem of all those hosts for people outside region 28 we
established one inbound gateway for the region. Inner region
netmail is exchanged directly between the hosts.
---END---
You will see a quoted message at the end of this text
that he uses this gate, it's called TipTop, in order to FORCE
SysOps in region to bend to his will. It is BLACKMAIL of the
worst order and has NO place in a hobby organisation, except
this is MORE than a hobby to some who "RUN" region 28.
--BEGIN--
Back to Ron Dwight, the 2nd ZC2. After a discussion between Ron
and some sysop the sysop called Ron a liar. When Ron complained
at the IC he got an answer in the line: "this is something a ZC
should be prepared for and he should not easily be annoyed". Ron
pulled the plug, we had no ZC.
---END---
I have no idea why this is in here but I think, it
too, comes under the heading of "propaganda." Let me give you a
little reading tip which I use when reading this kind of
article, ask yourself "What was written?", then ask yourself
"WHY was this written?" For the latter question, you will often
come back with, "for effect only". Let's try to stick to the
matter at hand.
--BEGIN--
The third ZC2 was Felix Kaska, He also was voted in being very
popular because he imported free of charge the echomail from the
usa. Felix had to resign for personal reasons, but not after a
clash with region 28 where he tried to reorganize the nets so
the club nets would disappear.
---END---
Which seems to go to show just how powerful the club
nets are! I'm just real glad that I don't reside in Holland and
have to live under this sort of regime.
--BEGIN--
In came Ron Dwight again. He was all for democracy. He would not
follow policy to the letter. He said then. Nowadays he writes
policy with a capital P and declares it the Law. And he is after
every region that does not follow policy to the letter.
Democracy : No. Flexible interpretation of policy (what is in a
word, why did we call it policy and not Law back then eh ?): No.
Thou Shall Reorganize.
---END---
FidoNews 9-35 Page 7 31 Aug 1992
This is clearly incorrect as are many of the "facts"
in Henk's article. Currently, every region in zone 2 except 25
(the UK) and 28 (the Netherlands) have democratically elected
RCs. Region 25 will have a democratically elected RC in the
beginning of next year and region 28 will have one as soon as
suitable candidates can be found for an election to be held.
Currently ALL potential candidates express actual FEAR of being
nominated. FEAR of reprisals by the current RC structure. Yes
it sounds unbelievable doesn't it? I assure you that it really
is true, SysOps live in FEAR of the power of the *C structure in
region 28. The messages to me (with the SysOp's names removed)
are available at 2:220/22, drop me a line if you are interested.
--BEGIN--
Boy, did we regret we voted for RD the second time !
---END---
This is perfectly understandable as the interests
which currently control the region are under threat. Honouring
the policy which have ALL agreed to follow would mean freedom
for the SysOps, but this will not be allowed to happen according
to Henk's philosophy.
--BEGIN--
Not being able to find a sysop in region 28 that could do Ron's
dirty work Ron agreed with the then current (chosen) RC that the
RC would try to reorganize within a year. That was march.
10 days ago the dutch hosts found a message on our board from
some unknown dutch sysop telling us HE was the new RC and he
demanded a session password with our systems so the nodelist
updates were protected. Without consulting all of the NC's
responded negative. A few hours later we received a message from
the ZC2 confirming that he had replaced our RC.
---END---
Once again, you are presented with a "half-truth" and
most of the story is (accidentaly?) ommitted. The previous
RC/28, Hanno van der Maas, in fact made a written agreement to
reorganise region 28 to conform to the requirements of policy.
i.e. to remove overlapping nets. This agree was made in March
1992 and was to have been completed by the end of 1992.
Three times between April and August 1992, crash mail
messages were sent to the RC (Hanno van der Maas) asking for
progress reports on the state of the reorganisation. All of
these messages were ignored. A fourth message was sent in which
Hanno was informed that he would be replaced as RC/28 if a
progress report was not forthcoming. This invoked a reply which
stated that "A meeting will be held WITHIN THE NEXT TWO MONTHS".
I was also told to stay out of region 28 affairs.
FidoNews 9-35 Page 8 31 Aug 1992
The progress for an agreed-upon reorganisation was
NOTHING in over five months, not even a meeting had been
arranged. Clearly this RC was not doing what he stated he would
do and had absolutely no intention of doing it. He was replaced
according to Policy 4.
--BEGIN--
Now, there is a lot more cooperation in region 28 than Ron and
the young guy (only being in fidonet a year as a point, not
having experience as hub or host) thought. Within one hectic
hour of voice telephone calls (we had each other numbers of
course) we agreed fully. We RC, REC and NC's would not accept
this replacement coup. On behalf of the group I wrote a message
to the young guy explaining that he would not get any support of
the *C's of region 28 and that he surely would recognize that he
could not operate this way. We gave him 24 hours to reconsider.
The response was that we would be thrown out of the nodelist if
we would not cooperate. I called him voice. Explained how we
were operating fidonet in the region. He responded that he would
withdraw if he 'got something out of it'. When I asked 'what' he
told me he should have a 'position' in fidonet after all the
trouble he went through. I told him that he was lucky that we
would allow him his nodenumber if he withdrew.
24 hours later most of us had been 'thrown out of the nodelist',
including some sysops the guy had a personal problem with.
---END---
I'm glad that Henk put that last part in quotes as
enough lies and half-truths have already been spread around the
net. You can see for yourselves exactly how many nodes were
'thrown out of the nodelist' as the zone 2 list distributed in
zone 2 is the same as that distributed elsewhere in the world.
Please check for yourself and see this for what it REALLY is.
Later you will see a copy of a NetMail message in which Henk
(and his band of merry men!) clearly violate the rights of their
own SysOps as well as some of the most fundamental freedoms
within FidoNet.
--BEGIN--
At least one host had been removed he told us. After another
round of consulting our reaction was very clear. A complaint was
filed about Frank (the would be RC 28) and honored within 5
minutes by his nethost.
---END---
A complaint issued AND honoured WITHIN 5 minutes!
Surely this is not the action of reasonable FidoNet SysOps!
This sounds VERY much like the actions of the military to me.
Are you getting the picture already as to just WHO the bully
boys are in this affair? It is also interesting to note that
the region, which as a whole (according to HW) rejects Policy 4,
is capable of issuing a policy complaint! Doesn't this seem
like rejecting the law when it doesn't suit you and seeking it's
protection when it's to your advantage?
FidoNews 9-35 Page 9 31 Aug 1992
--BEGIN--
His actions were endangering the operation of fidonet in region
28 and for us were extremely annoying. The punishment was a
three month removal from fidonet. We told him he could complain
by the only RC we recognized, the one that has been voted in. We
also password protected our links with our current RC28 so no
games could be played by sending us nodelist updates we did not
want.
---END---
Here you have a clear violation of policy in that
several systems are DELIBERATELY password protected against
another system, this action is clearly immoral as it
deliberately imposes costs upon other systems. Not that I
expect Henk or any of his cohorts to be bothered by that. These
actions are not the actions of reasonable people, they ARE the
actions of a frightened group of power-freaks who feel their
power base about to break down. Retain control at any price,
nice one Henk. It should also be noted that at this time
several mail bombs were sent from Dutch SysOps as deliberate
attempts to further confuse the situation. Threats of physical
violence were also made by Dutch SysOps against other Dutch
SysOps.
--BEGIN--
We informed all of our nodes and advised them to do the same and
to NOT automatically process the next nodelist.
--END--
As you will see by the message from Henk Wevers, his
use of the "advised" seems to be original to say the least.
More appropriate terms such as 'blackmail' and 'threaten' spring
to mind.
........
--BEGIN--
Up to now polls of our sysops have shown us that we have more
than 90% of them behind us. As usual the fighting has become
dirty, on both sides. Frank (the fake RC28) promised to
reorganize everything, mail and echomail. In response we
announced that the regional costsharing system was only
available for systems in the regional nodelist published by our
RC and that sysops that would like to be on RD's and Franks side
should get their echomail from them. There should be no problem
because the 'new RC' promised to get the echomail in. And we
would be crazy to pay for people that wanted us to be
excommunicated.
--END--
Here you can see the blackmail very clearly, even
before the text of the message I promised. I would be inclined
to agree with the figure of 90% and they were ALL behind Henk,
mostly cowering in fear of the reprisals, excommunications and
removal from access to EchoMail which Henk has so obviously
promised them.
FidoNews 9-35 Page 10 31 Aug 1992
--BEGIN--
We informed all of our nodes and advised them to do the same and
to NOT automatically process the next nodelist.
--END--
Here's that ADVISED once again!
--BEGIN--
The latest stand is that we jointly have set up a system that
generates a zonelist, zone update, world list and world list
update exactly the same as the one the ZC publishes, but with
the correct region 28 included. Starting next week we will even
provide a diff that revert this and will get us back on the ZC
generated stream without having to turn to getting a full
nodelist. Also region 28 lists and diffs are available and are
being sent to everybody that communicates with the region. --
END--
Ok, here's the stuff I talked about earlier,
concerning TipTop and how Henk keeps his SysOp's "in-Line", even
against his own promises NOT to do so:
From Tip-001.001, the initial documentation for the TipTop
Gate(s).
Document name : TIP-001.001
Document version: 1.0
Timestamp : 12 december 1991 created
: 08 januari 1992 update 0.1
: 09 march 1992 release 1.0
Author : Henk Wevers
Adresses Fidonet 2:500/1
Internet Henk.Wevers@f1.n500.z2.fidonet.org
......... Stuff removed
Rules ?
--------
I know people will scream for rules, ways to complain and
other stuff. Sorry, we only have a few rules:
1) The people (organisation) organizing the regional TIPTOP
gate must promise that every sysop with a nodenumber in fidonet
zone 2 can have access to the echomail.
..... Stuff removed
Fidonet TIPTOP relations
------------------------
I have no intention to interfere with fidonet.
...... Rest removed.
FidoNews 9-35 Page 11 31 Aug 1992
It would appear that he had EVERY intention to
interfere with FidoNet and in the WORST possible way. From
Henk's IMMEDIATE use of TipTop as a blackmail weapon against his
own SysOps it could be quite justifiably concluded that the
inital creation of TipTop was nothing but a power trip, but the
conclusion must be yours.
The original document is fully identified and is available at
many sites throughout FidoNet. The above two points written by
Henk are the most important for the moment. Henk Wevers then
writes the following message:-
The SysOp forwarding the message to me SPECIFICALLY
requested that his name be kept out of it as he was afraid of
reprisals from the region 28 *Cs. He is a trusted and sincere
SysOp and Henk Wevers has not disputed the translation made
here.
(114) Wed 12 Aug 92 16:40 Rcvd: Wed 12 Aug 17:53
By: A Dutch SysOp
To: Ron Dwight
Re: Nodelist a.s.vrijdag en TipTop
St: Pvt Rcvd ---------------------------------
Here follows the translation of Henk's message.
In a message of <09 Aug 92>, Henk Wevers wrote to Allemaal:
HW> Het is wellicht verstandig het volgende op te merken:
It's worth mentioning the following:
HW> 1) Door mij wordt uitsluitend de door de RC 28 gegenereerde
HW> nodelist van Regio 28 geaccepteerd als juist.
For me, only the Region 28 nodelist generated by the RC 28 will
be accepted as correct.
HW> 2) Die RC is de democratisch gekozen Hanno van der Maas
This RC is the democratically elected Hanno van der Maas.
HW> 3) Voor aansluiting op TipTop Regio 28 heb je een
HW> nodenummer in Fidonet nodig
For a connection to TipTop Region 28 you need a FidoNet node
number.
HW> 4) Sysops die voorkomen in de lijst van Frank
HW> v.d.L Zullen na vrijdag NIET meer voorkomen in de officiele
HW> Fidonodelijst. dat is de afspraak gemaakt door ALLE *C's
in regio 28
FidoNews 9-35 Page 12 31 Aug 1992
Sysops who appear in the list made by Frank van der Loos will
NOT be listed anymore in the official Fido nodelist after
Friday, this has been agreed upon by ALL *C's in Region 28.
HW> 5) Bovenstaande
HW> houdt in dat dergelijke nodes na uitkomen van de nieuwe
HW> nodelijst direkt van de TipTop R28 gate worden afgekoppeld.
The above means that such nodes will be directly disconnected
from the TipTop R28 gate after release of the new nodelist.
HW> 6) Binnenkomende netmail
HW> uit andere zones zal worden geretourneerd naar de afzender
HW> met een uitleg van het probleem. Mijn systeem 'kent'
HW> namelijk de door FvdL in bv net 2805 ondergebrachte nodes
HW> niet en zal ze ook niet kennen.
Incoming netmail from other zones will be returned to the sender
with an explanation of the problem. My system does not 'know'
about the nodes lodged by FvdL in e.g. net 2805, and will never
know about them in the future.
........ the rest is not relevant to the current discussion but
HAS been distributed in EchoMail in zone 2. The intent of this
message is quite clear and is obvious blackmail. Henk is using
the TipTop gateway in order to force nodes into submission and
from what I read in my inbound directory he is being VERY
successful with it.
You now have a lot more of the "facts", please judge
for yourself just who is bullying who and who are the "power-
freaks" in zone 2.
Ron Dwight, ZC2 and PROUD of a 'mostly' well operating zone.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Do *C's have really power ?
===========================
by Henk Wevers (2:500/1)
Hello Fidonetters !
After the initial article about region 28 last week I will try to
follow up with short notices from region 28 and zone 2. I have had
tremendous response so a lot of you must be interested. Rightly so,
because what is happening could very well be the beginning of a change
in fidonet. Kinda back to the basics movement.
FidoNews 9-35 Page 13 31 Aug 1992
A lot has happened after last weeks article. The international
coordinator has written a message to the zone 2 coordinator to
immediately restore the situation in zone 2 to the state it was before
the 'wars' started. Also the new RC28 that was appointed by Ron
Dwight should be removed.
The next thing that happened was that the zone 2 coordinator Ron
Dwight refused to go back to the pre 'war' status. He removed the guy
he just appointed to RC28 and tried to find another standin. No one
was available so the zone coordinator made himself the regional
coordinator of region 28. This will be a surprice for people trying to
communicate with the RC28 when their mailer calls long distance in
stead of the expected regional call.
As you will be aware, the attitude of the sysops in region 28 is that
no *C should interfere in a lower level unless invited to do so. The
IC has been asked to help by us, we never asked the ZC2 to reorganize
our region.
Personally I have been telling people that there is no real power in
fidonet. The only action a ZC for instance can take against you is to
remove you from the nodelist. If you are alone in your struggle you
have a problem, but if enough people support you there is an easy way
out. Just distribute your part of the nodelist. This is exactly what
region 28 is doing at the moment. We are producing our region segment
and distribute it to every sysop, net, region or zone that wants it.
This fails if no-one asks for it, but in the current situation there
is much demand. As Ron is finding out at the moment this effectively
neutralizes his 'power' as a ZC. If you think about it, this is a
perfectly balanced situation. The power of a *C can be effectively
made zero by distributing your nodelist segment.
The last article I asked for help. A lot of people from different
zones have asked how. Here is the first suggestion: ask your *C to
distribute the region 28 nodelist segment. We can make it available in
your zone if you want. If they cannot or wil not do so, help us
spreading it.
A very nice touch would be if the Zone coordinator would compile our
segment into his worldlist. Ask him to do so. After all a ZC should be
there for the sysops, right ? Wrong ! At least in zone 2 for the
moment. Maybe your ZC is different, try to find out.
I'll be back in two weeks.
Henk Wevers
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 9-35 Page 14 31 Aug 1992
Finally, some REAL FidoGrunts<tm>
By Erik VanRiper, erik@pdnfido.fidonet.org
First kudos to Tom. Good Editorial. Glad you also published Pablos
article(s). I am extremely happy that there are people_in_power (if
"power" is what people like to call it, then we can call it that), are
standing up and saying "NO!". I liked Pablos moving article about
Zone 4, and his personal experiences in that area of the world. You
may not think about it much, but happenings around your area of the
world are interesting to others. We have a good medium here. Lets
use it.
Kudos (again) to our esteemed editor. His policy proposal is by far
one of the best that I have seen. I did some minor work on WorldPol
some years ago with Pablo et. al., and looking at Tom's proposal is a
breath of fresh air. Not too wordy, leaves a lot to mature humans all
working toward a common goal, and leaves a lot of room to grow. In
other words, it is not a "you can do this, but not this" document, it
is a "hey, lets all get together and pass mail back and forth, and
here is a way that we can all keep in contact through the Nodelist!".
There seemed to have been a bit of local heat here in Net 107 land
(two weeks later) after my last article was published. Unfortunatly,
nobody looked at themselves. All they could do was point fingers. I
guess some things will never change. Oh well. :)
Good to see the FileBone working so well. Expect some more traffic
coming from the Internet in files and mail in the future... WorldNet
is what we all should be working for, a collective effort of computer
professionals and enthusiasts all over the world. Not just FidoNet (I
understand it is reaching 18,000 humans now), but EVERYONE. New
software, new ideas, new people... You would be suprised how much is
going on out there, and how much work is going into the effort.
Speaking of which, a public "Thanks" and a big pat on the back for the
"fidonet.org" crew that work so hard at maintaining the Internet <->
FidoNet connection possible, esp. Burt Juda. These guys have really
busted their collective asses to make things like this article
possible.
I know George Peace is out there somewhere, but I never hear of/from
him. Maybe some wisdom from the Z1 (or ANY Z*C coordinator) would be
valuable in a public forum. Since they are the ones running the show,
getting them to talk to the little people through this Newsletter may
be a good idea towards relations.
As stated above, we have a good thing going here. USE IT.
/* Erik */
FidoNews 9-35 Page 15 31 Aug 1992
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNet Democracy: Long Overdue
By Randy Edwards
Sysop, Socialism OnLine!, 1:128/105.0
It was sad to read the various reports of troubles in parts of
FidoLand in the FidoNews 934 issue. What was worse was not the
stories of problems with *Cs, but rather the realization that the
vast majority of these problems stem from one fact: the FidoNet has
no standard procedure for electing the various levels of *Cs in a
bottom-up fashion. In short, the FidoNet has no democracy that is
mandated by policy.
This is an old issue which has been brought up many times before in
the net. Allowing Sysops to choose their *Cs is not set in policy,
and is only practiced in a patriarchal way in some networks of the
FidoNet. This fact -- the lack of bottom-up democracy -- has been a
problem in the net for years, and it's the cause of much of our
current *C problems.
And what's worse, it doesn't have to be this way! There's no reason
why we can't implement a policy that is based on the democratic
principle of allowing the average Sysop to vote for her/his *Cs -- A
policy that would empower the average Sysop and encourage
cooperation, not the establishment of fiefdoms. There's no reason
we can't have a flexible policy that is enforced by the will of the
majority, not by an age-old "old boy" network.
Several years ago, back in 1987 or 1988 -- when the IFNA controversy
was the big issue in the FidoNet, I wrote up a draft "policy-type"
document of standard democratic procedures for the FidoNet. While
this document is by no means polished, it would have implemented a
true system of democracy in the FidoNet in the way we elect -- and
possibly remove -- our various *Cs.
This policy, the FidoNet Sysop's Bill of Rights, was the ideological
basis for the founding of at least one "other net," the EggNet.
While the EggNet has had its ups and downs membershipwise, the EggNet
has *never* had the cries of tyranny, accusations of dictatorship,
and other bickering that now permeates sections of the FidoNet.
Folks, the FidoNet doesn't have to mean "Fight-o-Net." While some
arguing is inevitable, democratic procedures in a FidoNet-technology
network works -- the EggNet is living proof of this.
To stimulate your thought, included in this issue of FidoNews is the
original version of the "FidoNet Sysop's Bill of Rights." Think of
it what you may, but ...
FidoNews 9-35 Page 16 31 Aug 1992
The time for change is long past due in the FidoNet.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Title : A message to Tom
Author : Fabiano Fabris
Address: 2:285/304.100@FidoNet
57:3901/100@intlnet
69:391/100@gaynet
This is an open message to Tom Jennings, whom I very much respect for
all he has done for and in Fido, particularly since his "coming out" in
a past issue of FNEWS.
While I'm at it, and since most of my friends know already (be they
"electronic" friends or not), I might as well state right off that I'm
gay too, always have been, and never made a secret of it in the
network(s). To those who seem to think otherwise, I can assure them
that they won't "catch" my homosexuality buy using my software (yeah, I
really did get a message to that effect).
Anyway, that's beside the point, really. I'm writing about FidoNet, not
about queers. Tom, the "beast" you have created is rapidly going down
the drain; not from the technical point of view, but from the human
one. Considering that Fido is (supposed to be) an amateur network, I
am amazed at the power struggles which go on.
In Italy, there are witch hunts against "OtherNets" that would put
Salem to shame; in other regions, entire nets are cut off without
warning from one day to the next; and there is a continual fighting
about =money=; sysop echos are filled with angry messages by one sysop
to another.
Is that what you wanted, Tom, when you started FidoNet so long ago?
Even though I joined only four years back, it was quite different then.
Oh sure, there were squabbles, but nothing like this. I don't think
this is what you intended. I've even heard of threats of blackmail!
Where has the "friendly" atmosphere gone? The basic idea of linking
people with a common interest? Now many of those people aspire to
"importance" and "fame", either by holding an administrative position,
or by being a "mail mover", or something similar. And there are even
those who seek to make money from it ... and succeed.
Why am I writing this? Well, FidoNet for me was a way to exchange ideas
with other people around the world, to learn new things, and to get
away from the stress of everyday life. But FidoNet has now become an
even greater source of stress than day-to-day life. You may notice that
I'm just a point ... the reason being that I was fed up with paying
hard-earned money to import echos which were full of flames, and
of little use. Then, when I heard of the blackmail attempt, and of
coordinators being dismissed without warning, I decided it was just
about enough.
FidoNews 9-35 Page 17 31 Aug 1992
OK, there are still a lot of people out there who do this just for fun,
and are not even aware of many of these things ... but since I =am=
aware....
I read your editorial in FNEWS934, as well as Henk's article in the
same issue. Tom, I agree with what you wrote 100%! Henk is trying to
justify his actions and those of others, and obviously I don't have the
information to comment. But my point is not that of whether he (or
Ron, or anyone else) is right or wrong; instead, I'm wondering how
FidoNet ever reached this point to begin with! I think EVERYONE should
rethink the reasons they are in FidoNet, and whether it is correct to
make all sysops "submit" to all this mess.
Replies of any kind should be sent to me via net mail, please. I am
crashable at +39-427-938827 (HST/V32/V42b,CM,XA).
Fab
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The FidoNet Sysop's Bill of Rights
By Randy Edwards
Sysop, Socialism OnLine!, 1:128/105.0
This version of the Bill of Rights is a draft version. It
is designed to show the multi-layer style of voting where every
member in the net has a democratic vote in quick and fair
elections.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
[*] THE FIDONET SYSOP'S BILL OF RIGHTS [*]
ver 0.15
[1] Any new POLICYx document must be ratified by the
same process as an amendment or deletion to this document.
(see #10 below)
[2] (a) No node may delete or modify (except modification by
recognized netmail utilities) intransit netmail unless it
is obviously illegal in nature. Copying or recording of
intransit messages is forbidden. An exception to this right
is prior agreement between all parties.
FidoNews 9-35 Page 18 31 Aug 1992
(b) No node may delete or modify (except modification by
recognized net/echomail utilities) intransit echomail unless
it is obviously illegal in nature. An exception to this
rule is an agreed-upon conference moderator. All nodes must
do any local modification or deletion ('chopping' or 'ed-
meeseing') of echomail after it is scanned.
[3] (a) Every node has the right to choose to be listed in
either the local geographic network, or as an independent
node in the local geographic region.
(b) No independent regional node will be subject to any
mandatory dues, taxes, or fees of any kind.
(c) Every node has the right to run any FTSC approved
software and no network will restrict compatible software types.
[4] Every network will have an Election every 12 months.
The election will be held in June (see {2} below), in honor
of the month the original FidoNet converted nodelists. Every
node in the network will have one vote towards the position of
Network Coordinator. Elections are won by straight majority,
but elections that are not won by more than 5% are submitted to
an automatic revote within 30 days. This is to ensure the
winner of an election has enough support to work effectively
and to help prevent controversial election results.
The Network Coordinator, upon election, will name an
assistant. The Assistant Coordinator (at each level (Net,
Reg., Zone)) will act as Coordinator at any time the elected
coordinator is unable to. Additionally, if a Coordinator
resigns, the Assistant will take over until the following
election (or recalled by a recall vote, see below). The newly
elected Network Coordinator will serve until the following June
when a new election will be held. The Network Coordinator will
act as a combination 'Prime Minister' and 'Representative' of
the Net in addition to any other duties outlined in Policy4.
Additionally, if there are 10 or more independant nodes in
a Region, (termed a Group, see {1} below) they are also
encouraged to have similar elections as above selecting one
person to be thier Representative, though since independent
regional nodes are independent, the Representative's position
will be in an unofficial capacity (see below).
[5] If at any time during a Network Coordinators term of
office, if 25% of the nodes in the network agree they can
submit a Request for Recall to the Network and Regional
Coordinators, who will have 2 weeks to verify the Request
for Recall and respond to the plantiffs via netmail. Within
60 days of the Request for Recall a new election will be held
(unless the June election is within 60 days).
FidoNews 9-35 Page 19 31 Aug 1992
[6] Every region will have an Election every 12 months.
The election will be held in August (see {2} below), in honor
of the month of the first FidoCon and the birth of IFNA and
the start of democracy in the FidoNet. Every Network
Coordinator in the Region will vote towards the position
of Regional Coordinator. Additionally, if a Region has 10
or more independant nodes in it and the nodes have elected
a Representative (see above), then that Representative will
vote in the Regional elections.
Each Network Coordinator (and Group Rep) will cast votes
toward the position of Regional Coordinator which total up to
the total number of nodes that the Network Coordinator (Rep.)
had in his Network (or Group) at the time he was elected. But,
if the total number of nodes in any one net or group in any
particular region add up to 50% or more of the total nodes in
that region then that net must be broken up into two (or more)
nets to prevent unfair elections.
The Regional Coordinator, upon election, will name an
assistant and serve until the following August when a new
election will be held. The Regional Coordinator will act as
a combination 'Prime Minister' and 'Representative' of the
Region, in addition to any other duties outlined in Policy4.
[7] If at any time during a Regional Coordinators term of
office, if 25% of the Network Coordinators (plus one vote
for a qualified 10+ elected independant regional Group
Representative) in the region agree they can submit a
Request for Recall to the Regional and Zone Coordinators,
who will have 2 weeks to verify the Request for Recall and
respond to the plantiffs via netmail. Within 60 days of the
Request for Recall a new election will be held (unless the
August election is within 60 days).
[8] Every zone will have an Election every 12 months. The
election will be held in September (see {2} below), in honor
of the month of the first St. Louis nodelist. Every Regional
Coordinator in the Zone will vote towards the position of Zone
Coordinator.
Each Regional Coordinator will cast votes toward the
position of Zone Coordinator which total up to the total number
of nodes that the Regional Coordinator had in his Region at the
time he was elected. If the total number of nodes in any one
region in the zone add up to 50% or more of the total nodes in
that zone then that region must be broken up into two (or more)
regions.
The Zone Coordinator, upon election, will name an assistant
and serve until the following September when a new election will
be held. The Zone Coordinator will act as a combination 'Prime
Minister' and 'Representative' of the Zone in addition to any
other duties outlined in Policy4.
FidoNews 9-35 Page 20 31 Aug 1992
[9] If at any time during a Zone Coordinators term of
office, if 25% of the Regional Coordinators (plus one vote
for a qualified 10+ Group) in the zone agree they can submit
a Request for Recall to the Zone and Int'l Coordinators, who
will have 2 weeks to verify the Request for Recall and
respond to the plantiffs via netmail. Within 60 days of
the Request for Recall a new election will be held (unless
the August election is within 60 days).
[10] An amendment or deletion to this Bill of Rights or
ratification of a new Policy document is done by a
Constitional Convention. The exact procedure is this:
If a node wishes an amendment or deletion (which should
be thought out carefully, for it is a very serious matter)
he must write up a Proposal for the amendment or deletion
stating the reasons for a change.
The proposal is sent to the proposing nodes Net Coordinator
(or RC for a Regional Ind.) who must verify it by responding
in no more than seven days to the proposing node via netmail.
The Network Coordinator then will put the proposal on the Net
ballot for next election (whether it be recall or the June
election). If the proposal does not win by more than 5% then
is is a failed proposal and no further action is taken on it.
If the proposal wins by more than 5% then the proposal is
submitted to each of the Regional Coordinators and to the
Zone Coordinator. Upon receipt the Regional Coordinators
have 60 days to vote on the Proposal and notify the Zone
Coordinator of their vote. The Zone Coordinator will then
tally the votes and notify the RC's and the Node who submitted
the proposal of the RC's vote via netmail. If the RC's vote
75% in favor For the amendment or deletion then the Proposal
is submitted for a Zone Constitutional Vote.
The Zone Constitutional Vote (ZCV) is done in June.
Every Node in the Network votes on a ZCV. The ZCV is done
by placing the Proposal on each individual Network's (and
qualified Regional Group) ballot for Network Coordinator.
Each Network Coordinator will then tally his/her Network's
ZCV vote and submit it to the Zone Coordinator who has 30
days to add up the total ZCV vote and report it to the RC's
and NC's.
The ZCV vote is won on a straight majority count of votes
- but for a change to this Bill of Rights to take place the
Proposal must 'win' the vote by at least 5% - if the
proposal wins, but does not win by 5% then the Proposal is
considered too controversial and is held over for an
automatic ZCV revote the following June.
FidoNews 9-35 Page 21 31 Aug 1992
---
{1} GROUP = A Group consists of 10 or more independant nodes
in any given region. Some independent regional nodes don't
directly vote in elections, but most large Groups organize
themselves into unofficial 'mini-nets' for voting reasons, and
elect a semi-official spokesman for the Group called a
Representative to cast their vote in regional elections. Each
Regional Group Representative election must take place
in the same month and manner as other Regional elections.
{2} ELECTIONS = A potential candidate for a Coordinator position
must think long and hard before volunteering, the demands are many
and the pay is nothing. A candidate must have already been a node
in the particular net/region/zone for at least one year before you
can volunteer to run. Before each election, candidates for the
Coordinator position must volunteer six weeks before the actual
election date to the current holder of the desired position and
to the immediate superior coordinator. The current holder must
verify the candidacy by replying via netmail to the candidate and
notifying the immediater superior coordinator within 7 days. The
ballot is then made up of prospective volunteers by the immediate
superior coordinator. If there are no volunteers then the immediate
superior coordinator is free to appoint a node to the position (who
will be subject to recall), assume the position temporarily
himself, repeat the election process at a specified date, or to
seek the guidance of the next immediate superior coordinator.
The ballot is then made up by the immediate superior coordinator
of all the people volunteering for the position. This ballot should
be posted as widely as possible by the current coordinator,
candidates, and all net members beginning on the first day of the
election month. This is the beginning of the election campaign. On
the twenty-seventh of the election month the immediate superior
coordinator will start accepting the actual ballots from the
appropriate voters. The polls close at midnight on the last day of
the voting month. The immediate superior coordinator then has 7
days to tally the votes and announce the results. If the current
coordinator is to be replaced, then this shall be done within 7
days.
[*] End of the FidoNet Bill of Rights [*]
---
Standard version numbers are in effect:
1.23
1 = Major change, 2 = Minor change, 3 = Tiny change
FidoNews 9-35 Page 22 31 Aug 1992
Version 1.00 will be when this document is implemented throughout
the entire FidoNet!
Changes:
Version 0.15
* Changed who accepts and tallys votes from the current
coordinator to the immediate superior coordinator.
Version 0.10
* Added Policyx verification by ZCV.
* Defined/outlined the election process.
* Gave the NC's and RC's a "total vote" which is the total of
the nodes at the time of the NC or RC's election. Since the FidoNet
is made up of volunteers with limited time we cannot run a
'two-house' democracy (it'd be big, slow and would further hurt the
effectiveness of the "dictatorship" of the various coordinators).
So to directly represent the will of the nodes in the FidoNet we
give the NC's and RC's voting power based on the total number of
nodes under them. Simple, effective, and fair.
* Added rights for discrimenation of software, and for no dues
or fees to be placed on regional independents. Some networks might
want to charge a fee, so it'll be up to them. The regional ind's
will have the right never to be charged (since all nodes can be reg
ind's).
* Changes to recall and amendment percentages. Added net-vote
for amendments to the Bill of Rights, stressed netmail verification,
other minor spelling/wording changes ...
Version 0.00
* Original draft.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
by Ian Evans - Sysop of Baudeville BBS
1:250/304 ian.evans@bville.gts.org
I've recently begun using the services of the various File Distribution
Networks and I'm amazed at the number of files that don't contain
either a FILE_ID.DIZ or DESC.SDI file. Now granted not all systems
are able to use those files, but there are an increasing number of
utilities that will import these description files into the file
directories of a BBS.
FidoNews 9-35 Page 23 31 Aug 1992
How do these files help? Of paramount importance is the fact that
they make the description more attractive to a user and may lead them
to download the program, fall in love with it, and send off their
registration money. The number of files appearing on boards is
increasing at a dizzying rate. If they see this description:
Makes coffee.
They might download it. But this description lets them know what they
are getting into:
Version 2 of John Doe's Coffee Maker. Now
supports the use of coffee's other than
Columbian. Can do exotic blends and will
make the coffee while you read your morning
email.
An expanded description also makes life easier for the sysop.
I get several megs of files daily, and when I have a file_id.diz
enclosed it makes my life easier when I have to catergorize the
files.
A file_id.diz file is a text file that contains up to 10 lines
of next with up to 45 characters a line. I don't know what the
solution is. Should the file nets educate the authors to use these
files, or should they get permission to write their own when an
author submits a file to the net without one.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Christopher Baker
Rights On! 1:374/14
Zone 3 Hub/Gate for Echos Changed!
Jackson Harding, Sysop of 3:681/857, Moderator of SKEPTIC,
and EchoGate for A_THEIST and HOLYSMOKE into Zones 3 and 6,
has changed Net numbers.
The Cockpit is now listed at 3:800/857 in the hills of
Nairne in Adelaide, Australia as of Nodelist.241.
Everyone with regular links to Jackson's system should make
the necessary adjustments of passwords and configs to allow
for this changeover. All ELIST info related to his Gate
activities for the above Echos has been updated for the
the next issue [ELIST209].
FidoNews 9-35 Page 24 31 Aug 1992
All of these Echos are now available on the Zone 1 Backbone
as well as in Zone 2 via 2:241/6001 [another recent change]
and in Zone 6 via 6:600/403. Zone 3 systems should contact
3:800/857.
I hope you will join us or ask your Sysop to request a link
via their regular Backbone connections!
TTFN.
Chris
----------------------------------------------------------------------
by Matthew Hudson of 1:3622/801.4
GAME_DESIGN echo now available!
GAME_DESIGN is for game programmer's old and new. Are you having
trouble getting that image to do just what you want? Need some help
with the graphics modes? Can't get that mouse interface to work just
right? Then GAME_DESIGN is the answer!
The GAME_DESIGN echo is open to anyone needing help with designing a
game program. BASIC, Assembly, C, C++, Pascal, and other language
programmer's are all welcome to join in on discussions about graphics,
image manipulation, modeX, and more! Not a programmer and have a good
idea? Talk to a game designer and get the ball rolling!
GAME_DESIGN is available from 1:123/19, The Memphis Mail Hub, or
1:3622/801, The XT Connection!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
By Bill Meck
Tourette's Syndrome Echo Started
At the request of one of my users, I have started a echo for those
afflicted with Tourette's Syndrome. The echo is intended to be a
electronic support group and chat area for those dealing with
Tourette's Syndrome. This echo is just starting up and we are
searching for systems interested in carrying this echo. If you are
interested, please contact me at 1:264/100@fidonet to arrange a feed
to TOURETTES.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"P_news" PROGRESSIVE news, views & poetry
FidoNews 9-35 Page 25 31 Aug 1992
There are ALTERNATIVES. This is an echo conference for articulating
ideas that challenge prevailing views. Except for "Anews" and very few
others, there is a shortage of alternative networks. BUT NOW, there is
"progressive" news, views & poetry.
An alternative echo to discuss NEW VISIONS? Discuss news from the
alternative press and on Anews, nytransfer, peaceNet, ecoNet,
conflictNet with a little poetry thrown in.
The "P" also stands for a "Peaceful" resolution of conflicts, wherever
possible and not wars for oil or tyranny or right wing dictatorships
because they are supportive of exploitive social orders. No more
genocide in our name.
It stands for "Poetry", that contains social commentary, and relates
to the human condition. Poetry contains a language of its own. It is
metaphor and images, a painting on the canvass of the mind, using
words to evoke feelings and stir the sleeping soul.
And it stands for "Progressive", that tendency for justice and more
humane attitudes and a recognition that abuses will occur unless we
vigilently struggle for the protection of the weakest, the dowtrodden
and the most unfortunate among us.
It is the recognition that we desperately need a clean environment,
affordable housing, decent mass transportation. We need sanity and to
vigorously move away from the conspiratorical hypocracy that rules. We
need democracy for all the people and we don't have it, not enough of
it, and we aim to get it, and that's human nature----or put in another
way, in the nature of our humanity, to insist on decency, peace, and
social justice.
This echo is for PROGRESSIVE positions only. NO flames! NO right wing
debate. NOT a forum for reactionary politics.
Hank Roth, moderator
###### Work for Peace & Justice #######
Anyway the Left wind blows ...
P_news is on the national backbone. If you would like a really
different approach, a *REAL* ALTERNATIVE to the mainstream echo
conferences your BBS now carries, AREAFIX P_news and give your users a
unique alternative.. odin@world.std.com // Hank Roth, Moderator.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
FidoNews 9-35 Page 26 31 Aug 1992
======================================================================
FIDONEWS INFORMATION
======================================================================
------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------
Editors: Tom Jennings, Tim Pozar
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello
"FidoNews" BBS
FidoNet 1:1/1
Internet fidonews@fidonews.fidonet.org
BBS (415)-863-2739 (2400 only until further notice!)
(Postal Service mailing address) (have patience)
FidoNews
c/o World Power Systems
Box 77731
San Francisco
CA 94107 USA
Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international
amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual
articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The
contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the
rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those
of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews.
Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
copyright 1992 Tom Jennings. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or
distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in
other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews
(we're easy).
OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each
PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere,
mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.)
BACK ISSUES: Available from FidoNet nodes 1:102/138, 1:216/21,
1:125/1212, 1:107/519.1 (and probably others), via filerequest or
download (consult a recent nodelist for phone numbers).
INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.ieee.org, in
directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding
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FidoNews 9-35 Page 27 31 Aug 1992
"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
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Asked what he thought of Western civilization,
M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea".
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