1277 lines
60 KiB
Plaintext
1277 lines
60 KiB
Plaintext
Volume 6, Number 36 4 September 1989
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+---------------------------------------------------------------+
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| _ |
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| / \ |
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| /|oo \ |
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| - FidoNews - (_| /_) |
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| _`@/_ \ _ |
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| International | | \ \\ |
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| FidoNet Association | (*) | \ )) |
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| Newsletter ______ |__U__| / \// |
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| / FIDO \ _//|| _\ / |
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| (________) (_/(_|(____/ |
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| (jm) |
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+---------------------------------------------------------------+
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Editor in Chief: Vince Perriello
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Editors Emeritii: Dale Lovell
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Thom Henderson
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Chief Procrastinator Emeritus: Tom Jennings
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FidoNews is published weekly by the International FidoNet
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Association as its official newsletter. You are encouraged to
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submit articles for publication in FidoNews. Article submission
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standards are contained in the file ARTSPEC.DOC, available from
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node 1:1/1. 1:1/1 is a Continuous Mail system, available for
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network mail 24 hours a day.
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Copyright 1989 by the International FidoNet Association. All
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rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted for
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noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances,
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please contact IFNA at (314) 576-4067. IFNA may also be contacted
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at PO Box 41143, St. Louis, MO 63141.
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Fido and FidoNet are registered trademarks of Tom Jennings of
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Fido Software, 164 Shipley Avenue, San Francisco, CA 94107 and
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are used with permission.
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We don't necessarily agree with the contents of every article
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published here. Most of these materials are unsolicited. No
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article submitted by a FidoNet SysOp will be rejected if it is
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properly attributed and legally acceptable. We will publish
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every responsible submission received.
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Table of Contents
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1. EDITORIAL ................................................ 1
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Having a good time, Glad I'm still here .................. 1
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2. ARTICLES ................................................. 2
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DeathNet Sparks Life in IFNA ............................. 2
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IFNA: Do or Die .......................................... 8
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NCLM Contest 2 ........................................... 12
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New Nodes Starting In FidoNet ............................ 14
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Elections in FidoNet ..................................... 15
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An Apology of Sorts ...................................... 19
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3. LATEST VERSIONS .......................................... 20
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Latest Software Versions ................................. 20
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And more!
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FidoNews 6-36 Page 1 4 Sep 1989
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=================================================================
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EDITORIAL
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=================================================================
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Hi there.
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A funny thing happened to me on the way to the retirement home.
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You might say that I changed my mind, and leave it at that. But
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actually, there was much more to it.
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You see, I received some very touching mail from a lot of people
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out there. Several friends also asked me to re-examine my
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reasons for leaving the job of FidoNews Editor. And so I did.
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What I discovered was that I actually liked the job. And that in
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spite of some of the problems that I have had, it was worth it.
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So when I was asked again at FidoCon whether I would be willing
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to reconsider, my response was that if the IFNA board wanted me
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to stay, I would do so.
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They asked. I'm staying. Thank you all for your kind mail.
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Thanks also to those of you who volunteered to take on the job.
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It's good to know that there are so many of you out there who are
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willing to do good things just for the sake of seeing them done.
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Now, on to something much more interesting. There is a net-wide
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plebiscite coming. I can't emphasize enough how important I feel
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it is for everyone in FidoNet to vote in it. Whether your vote
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is in the affirmative or negative is up to you (in fact I haven't
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decided yet), but you really should vote, one way or the other.
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The right to vote is just like a lot of other things: if you
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don't use it, you may lose it. Don't take that chance. When the
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time comes, cast your ballot.
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
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FidoNews 6-36 Page 2 4 Sep 1989
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=================================================================
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ARTICLES
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=================================================================
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Matt Whelan
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3:712/627
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DeathNet Sparks Life in IFNA
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----------------------------
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A funny thing happened on the way to FidoCon '89: members of the
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Secret Sysop Society, a group from New Jersey's 'affectionately
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named' DeathNet-107, hatched a careful and clever plot for a
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dramatic palace revolution.
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And while their plan blew up almost as spectacularly in its
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failure as it would have in success, they achieved A Good Thing
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for IFNA and, by implication, FidoNet<tm>.
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Having watched the palace revolution unfold and fail, yet still
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achieve something undeniably significant, I feel compelled to
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share my observations. This "one man's viewpoint" of FidoCon is
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my attempt -- as a participant in the most political event in my
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sheltered life -- to share some of the background to a truly
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amazing weekend.
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If At First You Don't Succeed . . .
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-----------------------------------
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I remember DeathNet from Cincinnati. It was my first visit to
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FidoCon, and they were there in the background in support of an
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attempt to have IFNA appoint a VPTC (Vice-President Technical
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Coordinator, who had also served as FidoNet International
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Coordinator in the past) who would, in effect, "put David Dodell
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in his place".
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I couldn't help wondering what it was that bothered them so much.
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My experience of FidoNet had been mostly good, especially after I
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discovered my personal savior: it only hurts when you take it too
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seriously.
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They seemed to be taking it far too seriously.
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But that was more a mild undercurrent of discontent than a palace
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revolution. While there was no shortage of politics in Cincinnati
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(at first I was silly enough to think I was there just to party),
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it was more a game than a battle.
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San Jose was a different story. Still unhappy with the FidoNet
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coordinator structure, the Secret Sysops wanted to change the
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world. This time, they had more than just an idea: they had a
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detailed, timed-to-the-minute battle plan, the result of three
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months of careful -- and one might even say furtive -- preparation.
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FidoNews 6-36 Page 3 4 Sep 1989
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There's no doubt the world of IFNA needed changing. It was
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limping from fight to fight as it traversed the back alleys of
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FidoNet, hauling itself from impotence to incapacity. Many of us
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went to FidoCon hoping to find some way to revive the good in
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IFNA, despite the increasing attractiveness of euthanasia.
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Few of us, however, shared the apparent DeathNet view that
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FidoNet needed saving from itself. Even fewer saw IFNA as the
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vehicle.
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Instant Takeover
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----------------
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The scheme to take control of IFNA was brilliant in conception,
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masterful in execution, and 'politically perfect' in timing.
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While most people shrugged their shoulders and muttered about
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'another screw-up' when the IFNA Board of Directors crippled
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Vince Perriello's Bylaw amendment intended to enfranchise all
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sysops, the Secret Sysops exploited it to maximum advantage.
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It was almost impossible for non-IFNA members to take advantage
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of the new At-Large membership category, tied as it was to a 180-
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day qualifying period. The key here is 'almost', as discussion at
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the intense every-Tuesday-night DeathNet meetings clearly
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discovered.
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Armed with this realization, DeathNet prepared its attack.
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Notarized papers were drawn up, applications for At-Large
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membership completed, votes in the IFNA BoD elections filled out,
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and membership fees of $5.77 collected.
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A bare 10 minutes before the close of voting at FidoCon, the New
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Jersey delegation declared its hand. The first victory was won,
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and it seated no less than nine 'friendly' board members at the
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first post-election BoD meeting.
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IFNA's history of indecision and inaction was about to change,
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and not even the F-37 Stealth Cookie could overshadow it.
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Majority Rules, Okay?
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---------------------
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Key players Phil Buonomo and Fabian Gordon rolled out duly
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notarized proxies from the newly elected BoD members. The pair
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carried six votes between them.
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With the commitment of Thom Henderson, Tony Davis, and one or two
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others to the revolution, they almost had a majority without
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making a move. By the time they counted the votes of sympathizers
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who were easily convinced it was time for 'action at any cost',
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they 'owned' the board as it stood that day.
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FidoNews 6-36 Page 4 4 Sep 1989
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Once this became clear, the rest of the agenda was rolled out.
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Slowly and quietly and, at first, only in the proverbial smoke-
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filled back rooms. My support was sought in one such meeting,
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where it finally became clear to me how good their basic concept
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was, and how disastrous their planned method of implementation.
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With control of the BoD, they intended to:
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1) Appoint Ben Baker VPTC.
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2) Re-establish the original VPTC-is-the-FidoNet-IC relationship
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and, effectively, take immediate control of FidoNet.
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3) Reject Policy 4.
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4) Implement Bylaw changes which would enfranchise all FidoNet
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sysops as IFNA members (essentially a repeat of Vince Perriello's
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amendment, without the limitations applied by the outgoing BoD).
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[There were 'smaller' items on the agenda, like the clumsy
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attempt to have the board accept New Jersey as the site of
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FidoCon 1990 without the usual involvement of the Site Selection
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Committee, while I also heard rumors (they wouldn't have told me
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this one to my face!) they wanted to abolish Zones. Yet these
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seem somehow incidental . . . ]
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They believed the net would 'buy' this instant-democracy, even
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though it could not vote on the validity of the upheaval (or the
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further planned changes) for another full year. I believed the
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net would say "screw you", IFNA would go out with a bang, and
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there'd be more hate, more fighting, more unnecessary pain in
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FidoNet while it happened.
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Too many things have been done to FidoNet without its consent.
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This plan, while perhaps admirable, was just another example of
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someone else making up our minds for us.
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I volunteered support for any scheme which made all these things
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available for the net to choose *after* being consulted. I could
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not support yet another example of "trust us, we're doing this
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for your own good".
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Vested Interests?
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-----------------
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Right now you might be wondering about the motives of the new IC,
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sitting there watching his job go up in smoke.
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Let me guarantee you I would gladly have given it to anyone
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with believable plans to advance FidoNet. But I would not happily
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hand it over to a scheme which I believed had less chance of
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working -- and more chance of doing real damage -- than the
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current system.
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FidoNews 6-36 Page 5 4 Sep 1989
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This is not the time for me to go into detail on my hopes for the
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FidoNet of the future -- you'll hear about that soon enough --
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but suffice to say I would not have taken the job if I didn't
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firmly believe the current structure has the potential to satisfy
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the desires of the vast majority of sysops.
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And I believed this satisfaction could be achieved more smoothly,
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more cleanly, and less painfully than by any sort of revolution,
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now matter how noble.
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Spanners In The Works
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---------------------
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Many other people whose opinions I respect deeply -- like Vince
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Perriello, Bob Hartman, Randy Bush, and even 'grandfather' Tom
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Jennings, to name just a few -- worried as much as I did about
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the DeathNet takeover.
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They've all been outspoken about IFNA's failure, and they've all
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been outspoken about failings of the current structure. They have
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no particular axe to grind, nor any 'position of power' to
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protect.
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They, too, feel strongly that good things should be done *by*
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FidoNet, not 'for' or 'to' FidoNet.
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These people are but a small-yet-prominent sampling of the larger
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group which saw the palace revolution as a potential declaration
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of war. And who did something about it.
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The Battle Begins
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-----------------
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While the revolutionaries sought to consolidate their voting
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power, the rest of us sat and stared at the face of defeat. We
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worried about the death of IFNA, which had done (and could still
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do) some good for the net.
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We talked about possible reactions from the sysops, the
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developers, and the *C structure. We discovered ways of pulling
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the rug from under IFNA's feet if it did attempt to take control.
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And all the time we struggled with ways to make IFNA meaningful
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without it having to be a choice between explosion and implosion.
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The only way out was voting power, but even that we considered a
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stalling tactic at best. We had no idea it would bring a
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meaningful result, and were concerned it would merely help IFNA
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sink further into lethargy.
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FidoNews 6-36 Page 6 4 Sep 1989
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Besides, to get our voting power we really needed to pull a
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rabbit out of a hat. [Bob Hartman has a more graphic description
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of where it was eventually extracted from, but that's another
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story . . .]
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Our first move was to make sure all votes were represented. BoD
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members who hadn't made it to FidoCon were contacted, and proxy
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or 'alternate' votes obtained. Outgoing IFNA President Bob
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Rudolph flooded the San Jose Holiday Inn with faxes declaring the
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validity of his alternate, Joe Keenan. Grandfather No. 2 Ken
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Kaplan phoned his proxy confirmation into the Saturday night
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board meeting, just seconds before the important voting started.
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I carried Bill Bolton's vote from Division 12 after my own BoD
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term expired the previous day.
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And then there were the two vacancies. While the revolutionaries
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believed they could place their own candidates here, sealing
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their majority, we believed otherwise. One vacancy was for the
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newly-created Division 3 (Australia), and I was the only Division
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3 resident in sight.
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As soon as I was voted into that position, I made a nomination
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for the remaining at-large vacancy. Only a Curmudgeon could have
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thought of it, and I thank him for it -- my nomination was Tom
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Jennings.
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Not even the palace revolutionaries would want to be seen denying
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the 'founding father' a place in such important decision-making . . .
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TJ is a forthright, honest, speak-from-the-heart kind of person
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who has no time for political games. I think he'd prefer being
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lost in a desert than sitting comfortably in a board meeting but,
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thankfully, he felt strongly enough about the future of his
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'baby' to take a seat on the BoD.
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All of a sudden, the voting looked a lot more equal . . .
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The Final Countdown
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-------------------
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Bill Bolton was re-elected VPTC. Wrong man for this particular
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revolution. Les Kooyman, FidoCon organizer, political scientist,
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voice of reason, presenter of the FidoCon Democracy session, was
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voted into the President's position. Wrong man for a revolution
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the people didn't know about.
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DeathNet's proposed Bylaw changes had little chance of achieving
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the two-thirds majority needed for success -- except for the one
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enfranchising all sysops as no-charge IFNA members.
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FidoNews 6-36 Page 7 4 Sep 1989
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Further attempts at imposing control were going nowhere in an
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arduous almost-all-night BoD meeting, until Phil Buonomo's
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"Yellow Piece Of Paper" (standing out from the mass of white-
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paper motions, it became known as the YPOP solution) was read to
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the group in response to a request to lay *all* the cards on the
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table.
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It, too, was planned as a "we'll do it now, and let the people
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judge us later". But it had potential, if only it could be
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applied more reasonably.
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Aggression receded. YPOP -- the skeleton of the IFNA plebiscite
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motion announced in FidoNews 625 -- could become a real solution,
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without the explosion.
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It was a chance to start over on IFNA, a return to Colorado
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Springs with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
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It was a chance for the net to decide its future -- with everyone
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taking part, not just hearing about it afterwards.
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It required compromise. Without the votes to force it through,
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DeathNet had to accept less than instant revolution. It had to
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accept a majority-of-the-net vote, not just the 'majority of the
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vocal minority' support it had in mind. It had to be a net
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decision, not a top-down edict.
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Either group could have stalled IFNA into its grave by holding
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firm. But if we could agree on the concept, and give it to the
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net to decide, we would have something special.
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We met on the middle ground. YPOP, considered only a part of the
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revolutionary package, became THE package. Trimmed and tidied, it
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became the high point of the political side of FidoCon.
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It is a victory for DeathNet, a far better victory than it
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sought. And it is your chance to join in the decision making, in
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the molding of FidoNet for the future -- no matter what the
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result, FidoNet will be a better place.
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But it will only happen if you participate. It's time to stop
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talking and start doing . . .
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
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FidoNews 6-36 Page 8 4 Sep 1989
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Thom Henderson
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Chairman of the Board (?!?!)
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International FidoNet Association
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IFNA: Do or Die
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I just got back from FidoCon'89 late last night (early this
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morning), and right off the bat the very first thing I want to
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say is that it was a great convention! Let's have a round of
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applause for the gang in the Bay Area for doing such a wonderful
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job! (clap, clap, cheers from the sidelines, whistles, et
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cetera)
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There were a lot of good seminars with good speakers, somewhat to
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my surprise there was a very good after dinner speech by John
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Dvorak after the banquet, and there were scads of interesting
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people (i.e. sysops) to meet and talk with. One rather odd thing
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did happen, though. Somehow I wound up as Chairman of the Board
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of IFNA. I'm still not quite sure how/why that happened, but it
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made for some interesting experiences (and I'm sure it'll keep a
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couple of echomail conferences from getting too dull in the next
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few months).
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So what am I going to do as Chairman of the Board? Not much, and
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mostly it's already done. A Chairman doesn't do much of anything
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except chair the board meeting (just like the title says), and
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that's over (more on that in a minute). The chairman doesn't
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make motions and can't even vote (except to break a tie).
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While I'm on this subject, let me mention a few things that I
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most certainly WON'T do. There were a lot of rumors and a large
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measure of loose talk and fairly brainless gum-flapping going on
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in a couple of suites about What I'm Going To Do that ought to be
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addressed.
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* I'm not going to outlaw Wazoo.
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* I'm not going to mandate that GroupMail replace echomail.
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* I'm not going to charge people to be in the node list.
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* I'm not going to "use my position to commercialize the net"
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(whatever THAT means).
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Let's get real, people. Even assuming I wanted to do any of that
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(which I don't), none of it is anything that a chairman of the
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board can do. For that matter, none of it is anything that
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||
anyone could do if the sysops don't want it done. Anybody who
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thinks they are going to make 4,000 sysops (or even one sysop) do
|
||
anything they don't want should have his head examined. The
|
||
FidoNet sysops are going to continue to do as they damned well
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please.
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FidoNews 6-36 Page 9 4 Sep 1989
|
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So what *AM* I going to do? Like I said, chair the board
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meeting, which is over. If you don't mind, I'd really rather
|
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talk about that.
|
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It was a heck of a board meeting! The best I've ever seen. I
|
||
guess an advantage of me being the chair is that it got a lot of
|
||
people involved. The first board meeting was Friday night, and
|
||
it was pretty much restricted to a few officer elections. Me as
|
||
chairman, Kris Veitch as secretary/treasurer, and John Knox as
|
||
acting secretary. Everything else was postponed until Saturday
|
||
night. Then all day Saturday right up to (and even into) the
|
||
board meeting phone calls went all over the place, locating every
|
||
board member who wasn't there and obtaining a proxy for someone
|
||
who WAS there. The only one who couldn't be reached was Henk
|
||
Wevers, who is on vacation. The two vacancies on the board were
|
||
both filled as soon as the board resumed session, so as a result
|
||
23 out of 24 board seats were represented during the session.
|
||
That's the highest percentage we've ever had!
|
||
|
||
And John Knox did a great job of keeping track of everything that
|
||
happened (I'll say he did an outstanding job if I get a copy of
|
||
the minutes later this week [*grin*]). Full minutes should be in
|
||
the next issue of FidoNews. (If they aren't, then my own somewhat
|
||
less complete notes will be in the following issue and I'll be on
|
||
a plane to Oklahoma to visit John [*wider grin*].) The full list
|
||
of everyone who served on the board will be in the minutes, but
|
||
here's my own slightly sketchy list:
|
||
|
||
Stephen Barnes
|
||
Bill Bird
|
||
Phil Buonomo
|
||
Randy Bush
|
||
Jim Cannell
|
||
Don Daniels
|
||
Tony Davis
|
||
Fabian Gordon
|
||
Bob Hartman
|
||
Thom Henderson
|
||
Tom Jennings
|
||
Steve Jordan
|
||
Joe Keenan
|
||
John Knox
|
||
John Lamb
|
||
Rob Lerman
|
||
Vince Perriello
|
||
Mort Sternheim
|
||
Matt Whelan
|
||
|
||
My apologies to anyone I left out. Lest I forget, the new
|
||
officers are:
|
||
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 10 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
President: Les Kooyman
|
||
Vice President Fabian Gordon
|
||
Vice President/TC: Bill Bolton
|
||
Secretary/Treasurer: Kris Veitch
|
||
|
||
|
||
As you can see, we had a pretty high-powered meeting.
|
||
Surprisingly, it went very smoothly (aside from the occasional
|
||
curmudgeon in need of sitting-on). There was a lot of serious
|
||
discussion, but it never got heated. We were never even close to
|
||
having a shouting match.
|
||
|
||
A lot of the attendees had very definite goals they wanted to
|
||
accomplish. Said goals weren't always compatible, but a plan of
|
||
action was hammered out that is going to make major changes in
|
||
what IFNA is and how it works. To sum it up in a nutshell, one
|
||
of two things is going to happen:
|
||
|
||
1) IFNA is going to become what it was meant to be, the
|
||
democratic voice of the sysops in network management.
|
||
|
||
2) Or, IFNA is going to be dissolved.
|
||
|
||
The choice, of course, is yours. You'll be hearing soon (if you
|
||
haven't heard already) that there is a referendum coming that
|
||
will be asking YOU which of the above you would like to see
|
||
happen.
|
||
|
||
By "you" I don't mean "you who paid $25 to join IFNA", I mean
|
||
"you the sysop of a public BBS in FidoNet". One of the things
|
||
that happened was that the IFNA bylaws were amended to make every
|
||
sysop in FidoNet a full voting member of IFNA -- no dues or fees
|
||
required. IFNA is now where it belongs, in your hands.
|
||
Furthermore, if the majority of *ALL* FidoNet sysops don't vote
|
||
in favor of rebuilding IFNA, then IFNA will be dissolved. No
|
||
hanky panky, no hedging, no waffling about what the lack of a
|
||
vote means. If IFNA does not receive a solid "YES" vote from the
|
||
majority of all sysops, it's history. If a sysop cares so little
|
||
that he does not bother to cast a vote, then that will be exactly
|
||
the same as voting against IFNA.
|
||
|
||
Furthermore, the referendum is mandated to be completed no later
|
||
than 1 December 1989. As far as I'm concerned, that means that
|
||
if it isn't, then IFNA will be dissolved. Granted that a net-
|
||
wide referendum is a fairly major undertaking involving a lot of
|
||
cooperation from a lot of people (including, I'm sure, the
|
||
existing *C structure). But if IFNA is unable to garner the
|
||
support or the manpower to coordinate the vote, then in my
|
||
opinion it is not worthy to be trusted with network management.
|
||
|
||
It goes even beyond that. If passed, the referendum mandates
|
||
that IFNA must submit a new set of bylaws and a new network
|
||
policy document to the sysops for approval no later than 1
|
||
February 1990. This means that before the February board meeting
|
||
IFNA must:
|
||
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 11 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
1) Run a net-wide vote of all sysops asking if IFNA should
|
||
manage FidoNet.
|
||
|
||
2) Win the vote by a clear majority of all sysops.
|
||
|
||
3) Draft new bylaws and a new policy document.
|
||
|
||
4) Run another vote for approval/disapproval of the proposed
|
||
bylaws and policy.
|
||
|
||
5) Have the proposed bylaws and policy approved by the
|
||
membership (i.e. the sysops).
|
||
|
||
Anything less than 100% and IFNA will be history. If it can't
|
||
get the support and/or can't do the work, then it's high time we
|
||
quit wasting time on it.
|
||
|
||
We'll soon know if IFNA can handle the job. Even sooner we'll
|
||
know if YOU want it to try.
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
Closing notes:
|
||
|
||
* My thanks to Randy Bush, who was instrumental in developing
|
||
the wording of the referendum. I'm looking forward to seeing
|
||
him again at the February board meeting.
|
||
|
||
* My special thanks to Phil Buonomo, who through months of
|
||
seemingly endless devotion, persuasion, legwork, and sheer
|
||
drive is the man who really made all this happen.
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 12 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
Butch Witherspoon
|
||
Fido 1:288/525
|
||
National Computer Learning Month
|
||
1989 CONTESTS FOR STUDENTS
|
||
Video/Storyboards on Using Computers and Software as Tools
|
||
|
||
6 Grand Prizes: One grand prize winner in each category. The
|
||
winner and his/her school or organization will both recieve a
|
||
computer system.
|
||
|
||
24 Second Prizes: Four second prize winners in each category.
|
||
Each winner and his/her school or organization will recieve
|
||
software programs.
|
||
|
||
48 Third Prizes: Honorable mention certificates for winning
|
||
students.
|
||
|
||
Categories:
|
||
Elementary (kindergarten-grade five)
|
||
Middle (Grades 6-8)
|
||
Secondary (Grades 9-12)
|
||
|
||
Description: Computers and software are wonderful tools for
|
||
creating video presentations. To produce exciting video
|
||
presentations, students can develop thier own scripts and
|
||
graphics, animate pictures and words, sequence computer screens,
|
||
connect a computer to a video camera or add captions or computer
|
||
generated art to videotapes they have made.
|
||
|
||
Rules: To enter this contest, submit your original video
|
||
presentation with the theme of using computers and software as
|
||
tools. The video presentation may not exceed 30 minutes. The
|
||
presentation might be a fictional or cartoon story that
|
||
introduces people to the value of computers and software as tools
|
||
or a serious presentation of how to use a computer and software
|
||
as a tool in a specific way. You do not have to use a computer or
|
||
video equipment to produce the presentation; however, the theme
|
||
must be using computers and software as tools. If you produce a
|
||
video tape, submit it as your entry. If you use a computer, do
|
||
not send a disk; either send a videotape of your presentation
|
||
being presented on the screen or send a printout of each screen
|
||
(storyboard) in the correct order. If you do not use a computer,
|
||
submit storyboards of your video presentation using any materials
|
||
you have available. Storyboards are pictures of what each screen
|
||
in a video looks like, put in the correct order. Entries will be
|
||
judged on originality, content, quality of script or story,
|
||
design, illustration and overall attention to detail.
|
||
|
||
Join the National Computer Learning Month Echo and get in on the
|
||
excitement! For more information send NetMail to Butch
|
||
Witherspoon, SEGUARO BBS, Fido 1:288/525 or write to NCLM Echo,
|
||
P.O. Box 8045, Granite City, IL 62040-8045.
|
||
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 13 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 14 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
Geoff Leff
|
||
Opus 3:640/200
|
||
|
||
|
||
New Nodes Starting In FidoNet
|
||
|
||
I've been part of FidoNet for approximately 3 years now. I've
|
||
been a user for the most part, and recently became a sysop of
|
||
my own board around 6 months ago. I'm sure most of you probably
|
||
agree that I am still a baby in the life of FidoNet, although,
|
||
I feel I should express my views on a subject. I would like to
|
||
make it clear though, that I am in no way trying to blame
|
||
anybody, and even the party's involved are at no immediate fault
|
||
of their own.
|
||
|
||
When I started as a sysop of my own OPUS CBCS, I received a lot
|
||
of help from fellow sysops helping me get set up properly, and
|
||
I thank them for it, but the reason I am submitting this
|
||
article, is my concern that other new sysops might have to go
|
||
through the same ordeal as I did. It all started once I
|
||
received my NEW long awaited node number, as a new sysop and
|
||
member of FidoNet, there was still lots of information that I
|
||
wasn't aware of at the time, one of which was that it was left
|
||
up to me to tell all the sysops involved up the track who I was
|
||
polling off of, so that they can adjust their routing files
|
||
accordingly. I admit it should be up to me to tell the people
|
||
involved, after all, I'm the new kid on the block. What
|
||
concerns me though, is how all these people expect a
|
||
'New Kid On The Block' to know who in fact is supposed to know
|
||
this information. An example, As a 'New Kid On The Block' I
|
||
decide to poll off of Joe Bloggs of 640/999. I am expected to
|
||
know all the boards that would be part of the routing so that I
|
||
can tell them that I now poll off of 640/999. As you may guess
|
||
this can sometimes be a little difficult, as I found out when I
|
||
started to poll from a node in Brisbane and then tried about 3
|
||
months later with another node in Sydney. Both times It took
|
||
countless messages all over the place, a lot of angry people and
|
||
of course a few voice calls interstate. It was getting to the
|
||
point where I was starting to think it wasn't worth the trouble.
|
||
Well, I'm happy to say, I am now properly set up in everyone's
|
||
routing files, but only after a lot of headache's. What I'm
|
||
suggesting here is just a simple clause in a message to let
|
||
him/her know which sysops need to know of your existance.
|
||
It's only common courtesy to let him/her know anyway, so how
|
||
about it fellow sysops, us new nodes are the reason FidoNet
|
||
exists, if it wasn't for us, there would be no need for
|
||
such a network. I would really like to hear some people's
|
||
views on this subject, so feel free to send me netmail on
|
||
3:640/200.
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 15 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
Elections in FidoNet
|
||
|
||
Steve Bonine, 115/777
|
||
|
||
|
||
Selection of FidoNet coordinators by election is becoming quite
|
||
common in FidoNet. Unfortunately, the experience gained in
|
||
conducting those elections has not been shared as widely as it
|
||
should have been. Thus, we have each net or region re-inventing
|
||
the wheel for each election. This takes extra time, and does not
|
||
provide a consistent process throughout the network. I hope that
|
||
this article will serve as a step towards sharing what we have
|
||
learned, as it is only through learning from the experience of
|
||
conducting elections that the best policy can be formulated.
|
||
|
||
Not all election procedures should be exactly the same, since not
|
||
all election environments in FidoNet are the same. An election
|
||
in a Net with five members is not the same as one conducted in a
|
||
large Region. However, there are aspects which are common, and a
|
||
set of election guidelines is a valuable tool for introducing
|
||
democracy into FidoNet.
|
||
|
||
Software
|
||
--------
|
||
|
||
How important is specialized software for conducting elections in
|
||
FidoNet? When the issue was first raised, I believed that an
|
||
election would not be possible without such software. I no
|
||
longer hold that opinion, although I do see how such utilities
|
||
could save time for the person(s) conducting the election. For a
|
||
small election on a local net level, such software would probably
|
||
be more trouble than it was worth, unless votes are common.
|
||
|
||
Such software could perform several valuable functions. It could
|
||
make voting easy, thus encouraging a high turnout. It could
|
||
prepare confirmations and lists of votes, removing the burden
|
||
from the vote conductor. Finally, it could improve the security
|
||
of the election, and perhaps even provide a completely secret
|
||
ballot.
|
||
|
||
There are, however, several disadvantages to using specialized
|
||
voting software. It must be installed on each voter's system, so
|
||
the design must emphasize ease of installation and ease of use.
|
||
It must be available for many different platforms, as we have
|
||
many different hardware configurations in FidoNet, ranging from
|
||
vanilla MS-DOS to almost-compatibles to non-IBM and non-MS-DOS.
|
||
Designing an easy-to-install, easy-to-use, foolproof system for
|
||
this environment is quite a challenge. Finally, the introduction
|
||
of voting software may in fact REDUCE confidence in the election;
|
||
"black boxes" and "magic" are generally distrusted, whereas
|
||
sending a netmail message is something that is easy and
|
||
comfortable.
|
||
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 16 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
The bottom line is that successful elections have been conducted
|
||
without the use of specialized voting software. If such systems
|
||
become available in the future they may enhance the election
|
||
process, but they are not a prerequisite.
|
||
|
||
The Tradeoff
|
||
--- --------
|
||
|
||
There is a basic conflict in FidoNet voting between secrecy of
|
||
ballot and ability to verify the vote. I feel that a secret
|
||
ballot is entirely as important as the vote process itself. In
|
||
an election for the local NC, I don't want my friend to know that
|
||
I didn't vote for him. It's none of his business, or anyone
|
||
else's business, who I voted for.
|
||
|
||
The closest we can come to a true secret ballot in FidoNet, short
|
||
of using voting software, is to choose an individual to conduct
|
||
the election. This individual must have certain qualifications:
|
||
not be a candidate for the office, be honest, and be trusted by
|
||
all parties. However, no matter how noble the individual is who
|
||
conducts the election, safeguards should be put in place to
|
||
insure that there is no question as to the conduct and count.
|
||
Such safeguards are as much for the benefit of the vote conductor
|
||
as for the protection of all candidates.
|
||
|
||
The Safeguard
|
||
--- ---------
|
||
|
||
There are ways to provide a public check on the vote count
|
||
without compromising the principle of a secret ballot. These
|
||
ideas are not my own, but have been set forward in various
|
||
echomail conferences, including the pol5_dem development effort.
|
||
At first, I thought that this was a lot of trouble for the poor
|
||
snook conducting the election, with little actual benefit. As
|
||
the discussion progressed, it became clear that there is extra
|
||
effort, but significant benefit. Not only does this scheme
|
||
prevent deliberate fraud, but it catches honest mistakes. Even
|
||
saints have been known to make an occasional clerical error.
|
||
|
||
The idea is simple. Each voter is assigned a password, known
|
||
only to that voter. (Or the voter picks a password when casting
|
||
the vote.) Then individual votes are posted, using these
|
||
passwords. Each voter can verify their individual vote, but
|
||
cannot deduce others' votes.
|
||
|
||
One more piece of information is necessary -- a list of the nodes
|
||
who voted. Without that cross-check, the vote conductor could
|
||
"stuff the ballot box" to the extent that people did not vote,
|
||
making up passwords and assigning votes to them. If there is a
|
||
list posted of who voted, and someone who did not vote sees their
|
||
name in the list, they can point out the problem.
|
||
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 17 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
A quick example. In an election for NC, the two candidates are
|
||
Joe and Sue. The vote runs like this:
|
||
|
||
Node Sysop Vote Password
|
||
115/123 Elmer Fudd Joe ABC
|
||
115/456 Donald Duck Sue DEF
|
||
115/789 Joe Smith Joe GHI
|
||
115/987 Sue Jones Sue JKL
|
||
115/654 Deputy Dawg Joe MNO
|
||
115/321 Tweety Bird does not vote N/A
|
||
|
||
The person conducting the election would post the following:
|
||
|
||
The following nodes voted: 123, 456, 789, 987, 654
|
||
ABC Joe
|
||
DEF Sue
|
||
GHI Joe
|
||
JKL Sue
|
||
MNO Joe Results: Joe, 3
|
||
Sue, 2
|
||
|
||
In a real election, the passwords would be more imaginative, and
|
||
the results would not be posted in node-number order. You can
|
||
see how this method allows each voter to verify that their vote
|
||
was correctly tallied. If Tweety Bird sees her node number
|
||
listed in the list of voting nodes, she can point out the
|
||
problem.
|
||
|
||
What Has Been Learned
|
||
---- --- ---- -------
|
||
|
||
I have recently been associated with two elections in FidoNet,
|
||
and several aspects have been interesting. Both of these
|
||
elections were conducted by Rick Moore (115/333), who was
|
||
impeccably qualified using the criteria mentioned above.
|
||
|
||
The first election was to pick a Regional Coordinator for region
|
||
11. Candidates (sysop or NC) were nominated by Network
|
||
Coordinators. No "screening" was done of nominations beyond
|
||
requiring that each candidate be nominated by an NC. The slate
|
||
of eight candidates was then presented to the NC's for a vote.
|
||
(There are 21 NC's in region 11.) It was decided before the
|
||
election was held to not post the individual vote totals; only
|
||
the winner was announced. This step was taken because it was
|
||
felt that candidates might be unwilling to risk being embarrassed
|
||
by a poor showing.
|
||
|
||
With 20/20 hindsight, it would have been better to post the
|
||
individual vote counts, or to use a method like the one outlined
|
||
above. Since the winner is from the Chicago area, and the ZC is
|
||
from the Chicago area, and the conductor of the vote is also from
|
||
the Chicago area, it was obvious to the casual observer that
|
||
massive vote fraud had occurred. Actually, I say this only as an
|
||
illustration of how the public posting of the votes is a
|
||
protection to the person conducting the election as well as to
|
||
the candidates.
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 18 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
As I write this article, we are in the final phase of an election
|
||
to pick a new Network Coordinator for net 115 in Chicago. Again,
|
||
Rick Moore is conducting the election. Based upon experience
|
||
from the first election, changes were made in the rules for the
|
||
NC election. First, the individual vote totals will be posted.
|
||
Second, the winner will be chosen by MAJORITY (as opposed to
|
||
plurality). Since no one candidate received a majority of the
|
||
votes cast in the election, a runoff is being held between the
|
||
top two candidates.
|
||
|
||
The learning experience continues with an election for RC in
|
||
region 12, again to be conducted by Rick Moore. This election
|
||
will differ from the previous one in several important respects.
|
||
The nomination process is the same, but votes will be posted
|
||
using a password method as described above. Instead of NC's
|
||
voting for the RC, individual sysops will vote. Again, the
|
||
winner will be selected by majority, with a runoff if necessary.
|
||
|
||
(Or runoffS. We came within one vote of having a three-way
|
||
runoff in the net-115 election, as the top three candidates
|
||
received 9, 9, and 8 votes each. If three candidates had been in
|
||
the runoff, it is probable that no one would have received a
|
||
majority in that election either, requiring yet another runoff
|
||
between the top two candidates. This is an example of the type
|
||
of unexpected event which can always show up to illustrate that
|
||
the rules which were so carefully prepared do not cover all
|
||
contingencies.)
|
||
|
||
What Next?
|
||
---- ----
|
||
|
||
We are still learning. More experience is needed with the voter-
|
||
password method, which has not yet been used in a region-level
|
||
election. Another aspect is sysops voting for an RC; the turnout
|
||
in the election will be an indicator of whether RC's should be
|
||
elected by vote of sysops or by vote of NC's.
|
||
|
||
As more elections are held in FidoNet, and as we share the
|
||
experience, it will not be necessary for each election to "re-
|
||
invent the wheel". Our hobby is, after all, communication. We
|
||
must communicate what we learn, or we'll each have the honor of
|
||
climbing the same learning curve.
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 19 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
An Apology of Sorts
|
||
|
||
by Phil Buonomo, 1:107/583, 7:520/583, 9:807/1
|
||
|
||
Over the past few months, I have become aware of a previously un-
|
||
known character flaw I possess. It seems that I have a bad ten-
|
||
dency to group people together. I want to make it clear here
|
||
and now that I do NOT feel that the majority of members of the
|
||
*C structure are bad. Some may have shown poor judgement lately
|
||
in the implementation of Policy 4, but I do not believe that
|
||
there has been any malicious intent behind that implementation.
|
||
Additionally, some people have been embarrassed and hurt by some
|
||
of the articles I have written. I hereby render my apologies to
|
||
Jim Dunmyer and JJ Marquez. Jim is a good example of what a *C
|
||
should strive to be, and if there were more like him, perhaps
|
||
FidoNet would not be in the mess that it is. As for JJ, while I
|
||
do not agree with his interpretations concerning conferences, I
|
||
feel that he was caught in a situation that was not of his mak-
|
||
ing, and therefore also did not deserve the chastizement I gave
|
||
him in a recent article. Fellows, no-one's perfect, and I'm not
|
||
even close. I'm sorry, and hope that you'll realize that my
|
||
intentions were not malevolent in nature, either.
|
||
|
||
As for Steven Bonine, I do believe that he's trying to improve
|
||
things, and that he bears no malevolence towards the nodes of
|
||
FidoNet, nor a desire for power over others. Considering my own
|
||
flaws, and the extraordinary measures I was forced to undertake
|
||
to bring a chance at democracy back to FidoNet, I don't feel
|
||
comfortable faulting the man any more. I urge Steve to take a
|
||
little more time in making decisions of policy, as they have
|
||
such serious ramifications for the network.
|
||
|
||
At FidoCon, several RC's have expressed an intent to bring demo-
|
||
cratic representation to FidoNet, and claimed to be moving in
|
||
that direction already. Since TJ's mention of trust, I have
|
||
decided to take them at face value unil proven otherwise. I
|
||
also hereby resolve not to let a few bad apples spoil the bunch,
|
||
provided the rest of the bunch is willing to help weed out the
|
||
bad apples. I urge others to do so as well.
|
||
|
||
I'm sorry if I offended anyone else. I'm not a diplomat, and I
|
||
sometimes step on toes trying to accomplish a goal. I believe
|
||
in getting the job DONE, no matter what the cost. I am proud of
|
||
of that reputation, but it does tend to cause grief for myself
|
||
and others. For that, I apologize.
|
||
|
||
Phil Buonomo
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 20 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
LATEST VERSIONS
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
|
||
Latest Software Versions
|
||
|
||
MS-DOS Systems
|
||
--------------
|
||
|
||
Bulletin Board Software
|
||
Name Version Name Version Name Version
|
||
|
||
Fido 12n+* Phoenix 1.3 TBBS 2.1
|
||
Lynx 1.30 QuickBBS 2.04* TComm/TCommNet 3.4
|
||
Opus 1.03b+ RBBS 17.2A TPBoard 5.2
|
||
Wildcat! 2.00P
|
||
|
||
|
||
Network Node List Other
|
||
Mailers Version Utilities Version Utilities Version
|
||
|
||
BinkleyTerm 2.20 EditNL 4.00 ARC 6.02
|
||
D'Bridge 1.21* MakeNL 2.12 ARCmail 2.0
|
||
Dutchie 2.90C ParseList 1.30 ConfMail 4.00
|
||
FrontDoor 2.0 Prune 1.40 EMM 2.02
|
||
PRENM 1.47 XlatList 2.90 GROUP 2.10
|
||
SEAdog 4.51A* XlaxDiff 2.32 LHARC 1.13*
|
||
XlaxNode 2.32 MSG 3.3
|
||
MSGED 1.99
|
||
PK[UN]ZIP 0.92*
|
||
QM 1.0*
|
||
TCOMMail 2.2
|
||
TMail 1.11
|
||
TPBNetEd 3.2
|
||
UFGATE 1.03
|
||
XRS 2.3*
|
||
ZmailQ 1.09*
|
||
|
||
Apple Macintosh
|
||
---------------
|
||
|
||
Bulletin Board Software Network Mailers Other Utilities
|
||
|
||
Name Version Name Version Name Version
|
||
|
||
Red Ryder Host v2.1b3 Tabby 2.0* MacArc 0.03
|
||
Mansion 7.0 ArcMac 1.3
|
||
WWIV (Mac) 3.0 StuffIt 1.51
|
||
TImport 1.331
|
||
TExport 1.32
|
||
Timestamp 1.6
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 21 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
Tset 1.3
|
||
Timestart 1.1
|
||
Tally 1.1
|
||
Mehitabel 1.2
|
||
Archie 1.60
|
||
Numberizer 1.5c
|
||
MessageEdit 1.0
|
||
Mantissa 1.0
|
||
PreStamp 2.0
|
||
R.PreStamp 2.0
|
||
Saphire 2.1t
|
||
Epistle II 1.0
|
||
Import 1.2b
|
||
Export 1.2b
|
||
Sundial 1.2b
|
||
AreaFix 1.1
|
||
|
||
Commodore Amiga
|
||
---------------
|
||
|
||
Bulletin Board Software Network Mailers Other Utilities
|
||
|
||
Name Version Name Version Name Version
|
||
|
||
Paragon 1.00+* BinkleyTerm 1.50 ConfMail 1.10*
|
||
ChameleonEdit 0.10
|
||
RMB 1.30
|
||
|
||
|
||
Atari ST
|
||
--------
|
||
|
||
Bulletin Board Software Network Mailer Other Utilities
|
||
|
||
Name Version Name Version Name Version
|
||
|
||
Star-Net 2.00 BinkleyTerm 1.03a ConfMail 1.00
|
||
EchoDoor 0.11 ParseList 1.30
|
||
GS Point 0.61 ARC 5.21
|
||
TurboArc 1.1
|
||
LHARC 0.40
|
||
PKUNZIP 1.00
|
||
MSGED 1.96S
|
||
SRENUM 6.2
|
||
OMMM 1.30
|
||
Timestop 1.00
|
||
|
||
|
||
+ Netmail capable (does not require additional mailer software)
|
||
* Recently changed
|
||
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 22 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
Utility authors: Please help keep this list up to date by
|
||
reporting new versions to 1:1/1. It is not our intent to list
|
||
all utilities here, only those which verge on necessity.
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 23 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
NOTICES
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
|
||
The Interrupt Stack
|
||
|
||
|
||
5 Oct 1989
|
||
20th Anniversary of "Monty Python's Flying Circus"
|
||
|
||
11 Oct 1989
|
||
First International Modula-2 Conference at Bled, Yugoslavia
|
||
hosting Niklaus Wirth and the British Standards Institution.
|
||
Contact 1:106/8422 for more information.
|
||
|
||
11 Nov 1989
|
||
A new area code forms in northern Illinois at 12:01 am.
|
||
Chicago proper will remain area code 312; suburban areas
|
||
formerly served with that code will become area code 708.
|
||
|
||
23 Nov 1989
|
||
26th Anniversary of "Dr. Who" - and still going strong
|
||
|
||
30 Dec 1989
|
||
Telephone area codes (5, 3 and 0) are abolished in Hong Kong
|
||
|
||
If you have something which you would like to see on this
|
||
calendar, please send a message to FidoNet node 1:1/1.
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 24 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
OFFICERS OF THE INTERNATIONAL FIDONET ASSOCIATION
|
||
|
||
Mort Sternheim 1:321/109 Chairman of the Board
|
||
Bob Rudolph 1:261/628 President
|
||
Matt Whelan 3:3/1 Vice President
|
||
Bill Bolton 3:711/403 Vice President-Technical Coordinator
|
||
Linda Grennan 1:147/1 Secretary
|
||
Kris Veitch 1:147/30 Treasurer
|
||
|
||
|
||
IFNA COMMITTEE AND BOARD CHAIRS
|
||
|
||
Administration and Finance Mark Grennan 1:147/1
|
||
Board of Directors Mort Sternheim 1:321/109
|
||
Bylaws Don Daniels 1:107/210
|
||
Ethics Vic Hill 1:147/4
|
||
Executive Committee Bob Rudolph 1:261/628
|
||
International Affairs Rob Gonsalves 2:500/1
|
||
Membership Services David Drexler 1:147/47
|
||
Nominations & Elections David Melnick 1:107/233
|
||
Public Affairs David Drexler 1:147/47
|
||
Publications Rick Siegel 1:107/27
|
||
Security & Individual Rights Jim Cannell 1:143/21
|
||
Technical Standards Rick Moore 1:115/333
|
||
|
||
|
||
IFNA BOARD OF DIRECTORS
|
||
|
||
DIVISION AT-LARGE
|
||
|
||
10 Courtney Harris 1:102/732 Don Daniels 1:107/210
|
||
11 Bill Allbritten 1:11/301 Mort Sternheim 1:321/109
|
||
12 Bill Bolton 3:711/403 Mark Grennan 1:147/1
|
||
13 Irene Henderson 1:107/9 (vacant)
|
||
14 Ken Kaplan 1:100/22 Ted Polczyinski 1:154/5
|
||
15 Scott Miller 1:128/12 Matt Whelan 3:3/1
|
||
16 Ivan Schaffel 1:141/390 Robert Rudolph 1:261/628
|
||
17 Neal Curtin 1:343/1 Steve Jordan 1:206/2871
|
||
18 Andrew Adler 1:135/47 Kris Veitch 1:147/30
|
||
19 David Drexler 1:147/47 (vacant)
|
||
2 Henk Wevers 2:500/1 David Melnik 1:107/233
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 25 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
__
|
||
The World's First / \
|
||
BBS Network /|oo \
|
||
* FidoNet * (_| /_)
|
||
_`@/_ \ _
|
||
| | \ \\
|
||
| (*) | \ ))
|
||
______ |__U__| / \//
|
||
/ Fido \ _//|| _\ /
|
||
(________) (_/(_|(____/ (tm)
|
||
|
||
Membership for the International FidoNet Association
|
||
|
||
Membership in IFNA is open to any individual or organization that
|
||
pays a specified annual membership fee. IFNA serves the
|
||
international FidoNet-compatible electronic mail community to
|
||
increase worldwide communications.
|
||
|
||
Member Name _______________________________ Date _______________
|
||
Address _________________________________________________________
|
||
City ____________________________________________________________
|
||
State ________________________________ Zip _____________________
|
||
Country _________________________________________________________
|
||
Home Phone (Voice) ______________________________________________
|
||
Work Phone (Voice) ______________________________________________
|
||
|
||
Zone:Net/Node Number ____________________________________________
|
||
BBS Name ________________________________________________________
|
||
BBS Phone Number ________________________________________________
|
||
Baud Rates Supported ____________________________________________
|
||
Board Restrictions ______________________________________________
|
||
|
||
Your Special Interests __________________________________________
|
||
_________________________________________________________________
|
||
_________________________________________________________________
|
||
In what areas would you be willing to help in FidoNet? __________
|
||
_________________________________________________________________
|
||
_________________________________________________________________
|
||
Send this membership form and a check or money order for $25 in
|
||
US Funds to:
|
||
International FidoNet Association
|
||
PO Box 41143
|
||
St Louis, Missouri 63141
|
||
USA
|
||
|
||
Thank you for your membership! Your participation will help to
|
||
insure the future of FidoNet.
|
||
|
||
Please NOTE that IFNA is a general not-for-profit organization
|
||
and Articles of Association and By-Laws were adopted by the
|
||
membership in January 1987. The second elected Board of Directors
|
||
was filled in August 1988. The IFNA Echomail Conference has been
|
||
established on FidoNet to assist the Board. We welcome your
|
||
input to this Conference.
|
||
|
||
FidoNews 6-36 Page 26 4 Sep 1989
|
||
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|