1328 lines
62 KiB
Plaintext
1328 lines
62 KiB
Plaintext
Volume 3, Number 34 8 September 1986
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+---------------------------------------------------------------+
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| _ |
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| / \ |
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| /|oo \ |
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| - FidoNews - (_| /_) |
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| _`@/_ \ _ |
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| International | | \ \\ |
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| FidoNet Association | (*) | \ )) |
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| Newsletter ______ |__U__| / \// |
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| / FIDO \ _//|| _\ / |
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| (________) (_/(_|(____/ |
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| (jm) |
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+---------------------------------------------------------------+
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Editor in Chief: Thom Henderson
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Chief Procrastinator Emeritus: Tom Jennings
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FidoNews is the official newsletter of the International FidoNet
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Association, and is published weekly by SEAdog Leader, node 1/1.
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You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
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FidoNews. Article submission standards are contained in the file
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ARTSPEC.DOC, available from node 1/1.
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Copyright (C) 1986, by the International FidoNet Association.
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All rights reserved. Duplication and/or distribution permitted
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for noncommercial purposes only. For use in other circumstances,
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please contact IFNA.
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The contents of the articles contained here are not our
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responsibility, nor do we necessarily agree with them.
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Everything here is subject to debate.
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Table of Contents
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1. ARTICLES
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MAILCOST--some comments from a user
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Quit Belly-aching
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Fido Utilities from 130/3
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Artificial Intelligence Conference
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International Fido Conference - notes by Allen Miller
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Problem with the date format in FIDOmail
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Help Out Loek!
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More coals on the fire, or IFNA in 500 words or less
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IFNA/Conference Remote Reaction
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2. FOR SALE
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Public Domain Software Library Sale!!
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3. NOTICES
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The Interrupt Stack
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CARTOON: Generic George, by Bruce White
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New Net in Southern California - #166
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Fidonews Page 2 8 Sep 1986
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=================================================================
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ARTICLES
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=================================================================
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Jerry Hindle, 123/6
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Mailcost
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some comments
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I will attempt something I have never done before.....
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I will "try" to write a review of a program I found on a
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board in Arizona called appropriately "MAILCOST"
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I have used this program for accounting mail in our net now
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for about a month and find that although it is well written and
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certainly does check and account for ALL out-of-town mail, it
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does it in a manner that is inconsistent with the way Fido
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accounts the actual costs to the user. Fido subtracts the listed
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cost of a message from the users account regardless of whether
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there are other messages going to the same node or host. This is
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I believe the way that MOST hosts try to keep up with the mail
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costs for a net. While "MAILCOST" does certainly keep a record of
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the mail from each node, it does it by taking ALL messages to a
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certain host and lumping the cost together. It then divides the
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cost of the call (supplied by the host) between the nodes who had
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mail for that node/host. While this is certainly cheaper it
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places an additional load on the host & the sysop of the system
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to update the users account to reflect the savings (not an easy
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task I assure you) each time the mail is accounted. This results
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in confusion of the users as to actually "how much" the messages
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cost. Fido tells them that a message to node xxx/xx costs $.25
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each and then when they send the message and the host gets say 2
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or three in for that host then the actual cost is lowered. There
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is no way the host can ACCURATELY specify to the user what the
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ACTUAL cost will be until after the mail is sent. It is much like
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an estimate from a repair shop, sometimes accurate but often
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wrong.
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I have a few suggestions for the author of the program. I
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don't want to sound like I am jumping his case (which I
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definitely AM NOT) but I think that by looking at it from the
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AVERAGE hosts point of view he will come up with a vastly
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improved version that could account the mail in two ways, either
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being specified by the host using the program.
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Suggestion #1: Set the program up to ADD up the total cost
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of the mail from each NODE separately BY USER NAME. This way each
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message sent will be counted as a separate call (although not
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always the case) and logged appropriately. Thus the host can
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inform the node each accounting period of the Fido-based cost of
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his nodes mail. I suggest a log format as follows:
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NODE # USER NAME # msgs Total COST
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-----------------------------------------------------
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Fidonews Page 3 8 Sep 1986
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123/1 Jim Brown 2 $0.50
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123/1 Sysop 4 $1.00
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123/5 Sysop 7 $1.75
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123/6 Sysop 20 $5.00
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( I send a LOT of mail out for myself)
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This way the host knows how much Fido ACTUALLY charged the
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user and since most hosts collect BEFORE they allow the user to
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send mail then they can deduct this from the account of the user
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regardless of what node the user is on. Any savings realized by
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the host due to multiple messages to the same node/host could
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either be passed back to the user or used to help cover the costs
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of bringing in such filesas FidoNews and the NodeDiff.a* each
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week. I am sure that most hosts try to do as much as they can
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afford, let's face it no matter what, calls for the news and
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nodediff costs the host money and since there is no one for him
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to try to pass the costs on to he ends up eating about $15 a
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month over the cost of operation of the system.
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By making the program capable of working either like the
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format it now has or by the format I have proposed (selectable by
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the sysop/host), I am sure the author would realize that the
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accounting method he uses now, while good, is based on paying for
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mail after the fact which would mean letting anyone in the net
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send mail at any time without having to put up a cent. This could
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run the host a bundle and I don't think this was the authors
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intention. Also if the host did do it this way he could stand to
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lose a lot of money from people not paying him what they owe for
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mail.
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Again I am not on anyones case this is simply constructive
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criticism and I hope it is taken that way.
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Fidonews Page 4 8 Sep 1986
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Jerry Hindle, 123/6
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Quit Belly-aching
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After reading FidoNews issue 332 I get the distinct
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impression that some of you fortunate enough to be able to attend
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the conference in Colorado went there for one reason, to belly-
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ache!
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Come off it people, I mean Thom Henderson, Ben Baker, Ken
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Kaplan, and TOM JENNINGS have busted their butts to keep this
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network going. They have forged ahead despite the adversities
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with something they believed in. They sure didn't do it for the
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profit potential, I mean lets face it the profit potential is
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simply non-existent.
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I read where tempers flared over the nomination of the board
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members of INFA, I read where people were miffed that they
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couldn't cast proxy votes, etc. I will say this one thing to all
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of you out there and then I will shut up.
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Tom Jennings didn't HAVE to release Fido the way he did. He could
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have made it a commercial package and gotten a LOT of money for
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it.
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Ben Baker didn't HAVE to work so long and hard on the nodelist
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setup. He could have left it where you had to edit the damn 137k
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long file by hand each week. He could have simply not done
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anything in which case there would be no network.
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Ken Kaplan didn't HAVE to work so hard to organize the network
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into regions, net, and nodes. He could have left it as was and
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let you figure out how to send the mail to the west coast to one
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particular board and one board only.
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Thom Henderson didn't HAVE to volunteer for newsletter publisher.
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He could have gone his merry way and we would have no means of
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finding out what the Fidos outside our local area were doing
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without having to call all over the world.
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I say this to the person that said the hell with these
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people, he already had a network if Ken and Ben and Tom Jennings
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and Thom Henderson didn't like it. If you think you have a
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network just STOP and THINK what you would have if these people
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had done NOTHING. You would have just that......NOT A DAMN
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THING!!!!!!!!!!
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Quit your damn belly-aching and let these people do their
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job. You concern yourself with running your little piece of the
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machine (this could apply to everyone) and TOGETHER we can make
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this network WORK for the good of us ALL.
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Fidonews Page 5 8 Sep 1986
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'NUFF SAID
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Fidonews Page 6 8 Sep 1986
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Eric Ewanco, The AmERICan BBS, SEAdog 130/3
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The response to my MSGCRYPT program has been so positive that
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I've decided to announce some of my other programs I've written.
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Any program I've written can be either file requested by SEAdog
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or for Fidos, send me a message and I'll hold a file attach for
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you (no trouble at all). Either Poll me or Pickup me with a
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message to me the next day. Here are some of them:
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CALLERS.ARC: Modify the caller count. Show, add to, subtract
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from, and set the caller count. (Not for caller count stuffing!
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Use when converting BBS software or after a crash.)
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SYSEDIT.ARC: (no docs) Full screen fancy system file editor.
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Arrow-key editing, change caller count, sort files by priv,
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exchange files, insert in the middle or delete from the middle,
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rotate all files.
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DARC.ARC: Archive utility. Scans an archive for filenames and
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deletes those filenames from the current dir. For use when
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you've dearchived a large archive and decide you don't like it;
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instead of individually finding which files were in there are
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deleting them, run DARC and it will automatically delete them!
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ARCDIV.ARC: Archive utility. Remove certain files from an archive
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to a separate archive without unpacking and repacking them.
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LASTUSER.ARC: Read LASTUSER.BBS and display stats.
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CHECKCD.COM: (12 bytes) Return errorlevel 1 on no CD.
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MOVEULS.ARC: Aid in moving uploads from u/l dir to file areas.
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ALTPAGE.ARC: Separates odd and even pages of docs so you can
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print on both sides of the paper
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SKIPPAGE.ARC: Extract pages from the middle of large docs
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From Eric Ewanco on SEAdog 130/3, Enjoy!
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Fidonews Page 7 8 Sep 1986
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Tom Emerson, 16/635
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Can a computer become intelligent? This is a question that a
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select group of scientists have been asking for over 30 years.
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All will agree that the answer is yes, but not in their life
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time, or their childrens lifetime. But when the computer does
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become intelligent, what will be its implications on the world?
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||
How will the intelligent computer effect the world in which we
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live in, and that of our great great grandchildren?
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||
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Artificial Intelligence (AI) hs been called a half breed of
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||
academic research in psychology, philosophy, linguistics, and
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computer science. Because of this, most AI researchers are
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frowned upon by their colleagues in other fields of science.
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They feel that AI is something that should be left alone, that
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computers are not here to be intelligent, but to help intelligent
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people. Joseph Weizenbaum, a noted computer scientist at M.I.T.,
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has gone as far as to describe "...AI as the province of madmen
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and psycopaths."
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The AI Conference will try to answer these questions about the
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future of intelligent computers, as well as inform you of the
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latest findings in the AI field. Short tutorials on various
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areas of AI will also be included periodically. It is a place
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where your questions about AI can be answered. Languages such as
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LISP and Prolog will be supported. AI programming techniques
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||
will be discussed if there is interest.
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||
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What is AI all about? What exactly does AI mean? For answers to
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these, take a look at the AI Conference.
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Current locations are:
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New York City Area:
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-------------------
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Gateway NRA BillBoard
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Brooklyn, NY New York, NY
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1-718-338-3501 1-212-333-3285
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Baud:300/1200 baud:300/1200/2400
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Net/Node:107/222 Net/Node:107/102
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Time:6pm to 8am weekday
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New Jersey Area: New England Area:
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---------------- -----------------
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Helix 1 The Mindset Fido
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Atlantic City, NJ Burlington, VT
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1-609-266-0517 1-802-658-2494
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Baud:300/1200/2400 Baud:300/1200
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Net/Node:107/404 Net/Node:16/635
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West Coast Area:
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----------------
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Mindset BBS
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Sunnyvale, CA
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1-408-737-3362
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Baud:300/1200
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Fidonews Page 8 8 Sep 1986
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Net/Node:143/20
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SYSOPS: If you would like to have this conference on your board,
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please contact Richard Clark at Gateway NRA (107/222) whom is the
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co-ordinator of the conference.
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-----------------------------------------------------------------
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Fidonews Page 9 8 Sep 1986
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International Fido Conference
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August 14-17, 1986
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per Allen Miller, 108/0
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The conference was hosted by the Colorado Springs User Group
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and they did a fine job. There were somewhere around 100 Fido
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Sysops (some with wives). The Sysops came from all over the
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United States; there were also Sysops from Canada, Great Britain
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and Holland. It was a great experience to meet face-to-face with
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the people I had been writing e-mail to for the last two years.
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I overheard a conversation between Thom Henderson and Donovan
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Kuhn where Thom told Donovan that he looked just like he had
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pictured him. That guy must be clairvoyant.
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I arrived too late for the Thursday evening session which
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featured Ezra Shapiro of Byte Magazine. Ezra didn't make it
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either as he was bailing water out of his house. Seems they have
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the same kind of plumbing problems in S.F. that the rest of us
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experience from time to time. Over the weekend we got to hear a
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good bit from Ezra who proved to be the stabilizing force that
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was needed for some of our 'discussions'.
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I will skip to the topic that I think most of my local
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Sysops are interested in and will get back to the rest of the
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conference in some fashion.
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VERSION 12
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==========
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Tom Jennings is working on it. However, it seems like it
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will be much more involved than I had imagined. The network has
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been growing at geometric paces.
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* Dates for availability ranged from September to January *.
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Fido's current internal nodelist table has room for 1,200
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nodes. If the nodelist has more than 1,200 nodes, Fido will just
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skip the ones beyond. Until v12 is out, Fido Administrators can
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help by eliminating inactive Fido's when they send in their
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nodelist updates. Also, if you have entries indicated as DOWN,
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just put a semicolon before them to change to a comment. This
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will also help.
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If you remember the time before Nets, when there were only
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Nodes, then you will be able to appreciate this. In May, 1984,
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there were about 10 Fido's; in June, 1985 there were about 160
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Fido's and the Net concept was introduced; at September, 1986
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there are now almost 1,200 Fido's and the Zone is the new step.
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A Zone will be a group of Nets. Initially, Zones might line up
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with countries. Down the road a Zone might even be a subset of a
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country.
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Just imagine it. If nothing else in Fido changed other than
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the Zone concept, jillions of Fido utilities would have to change
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to accommodate the new structure of Zone/Net/Node replacing the
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Fidonews Page 10 8 Sep 1986
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current Net/Node. Fido v12 can't just be haphazardly introduced
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into the bbs world without a lot of work/time to at least have
|
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compatible versions of the most important utilities like listgen,
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editnl, xlatlist, and robot.
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There will be several months between the distribution of v12
|
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and the introduction of new Zone numbers. This will give
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everyone a chance to get familiar with the new software and
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hopefully keep the confusion during the changeover to a minimum.
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Some other areas of change.
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1. Fido's internal version of the nodelist will be a disk file
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||
instead of loaded to memory. The list is just getting too
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big. Tom Jennings said he rewrote the search code so when
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||
Fido needs to check an address against the nodelist, it will
|
||
be real fast.
|
||
|
||
2. To make international mail more efficient, a 'gate' concept
|
||
for outgoing mail of one country to be funneled to the gate
|
||
who would process and send mail destined for a second country.
|
||
|
||
3. Because of the size of the nodelist and the other related Fido
|
||
structures, Fido will not be a system that will run well on a
|
||
floppy based system. Fido will want a hard disk for storage
|
||
capacity.
|
||
|
||
4. Fido will have no more command line switches other than
|
||
perhaps the /T test mode. Tom's comment was that there just
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||
weren't enough letters available for additional controls. All
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||
these type controls will be handled from a text file, as will
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||
be the event schedule.
|
||
|
||
5. The version 11 manual was over 300k bytes. The version 12
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||
manual will not be downloadable. It will be professionally
|
||
printed and available for purchase for some reasonable number
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of clams.
|
||
|
||
6. There will be new handling of system security in v12. Our
|
||
names (Twit, Normal, etc.) will go by the wayside and be
|
||
replaced with numbers. Security will work on a 'mask' concept
|
||
which will let you have much more control of access by user,
|
||
area, and function.
|
||
|
||
7. To conform to the current times regarding security of e-mail
|
||
and disclosure.... Normal level users will be given a message
|
||
that the 'Sysop can read Private mail'.
|
||
|
||
I am sure that there are more new features and goodies of
|
||
v12 than I have covered here. However, that is all that I had in
|
||
my notes or that I could remember from Tom Jennings' conference
|
||
session. Anyway, knowing Tom a little, I expect there will be
|
||
some minor things that he wouldn't have thought to discuss in the
|
||
meeting. We'll just have to wait and see.
|
||
|
||
International Fido Net Association
|
||
Fidonews Page 11 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
==================================
|
||
|
||
IFNA (pronounced "if-nuh") is the International Fido Net
|
||
Association. It is a nonprofit organization created to be a
|
||
vehicle to raise tax deductible money to support the ongoing
|
||
needs of this large organization. The Board of Directors was
|
||
approved to be Ken Kaplan, Ben Baker and Thom Henderson. The
|
||
Articles of Incorporation (or some kind of legal b...s... to use
|
||
a term of George Wing) were voted on and approved at the meeting.
|
||
Preparing Bylaws is a step that remains to be done.
|
||
|
||
There was a lot of energy invested to get this group
|
||
organized (lets hear some applause). At the conference there was
|
||
a lot of energy expended on some less productive discussion of
|
||
the so-called issues. Suffice it to say (good old hindsight)
|
||
that more communication on the agenda of incorporation might have
|
||
made people more happy. However, I say that there are probably
|
||
some people in the world that you can never please. Since all of
|
||
us donate our time for this effort, I wouldn't loose too much
|
||
sleep over the small minority. If you weren't there, you missed
|
||
some interesting interpersonal interaction.
|
||
|
||
FidoNet Standards Committee
|
||
===========================
|
||
|
||
Randy Bush, along with his committee, has done a fabulous
|
||
job on what will be the most meaningful contribution to the world
|
||
of telecommunications that I could have imagined. Randy has been
|
||
developing the FidoNet standards document.
|
||
|
||
The FidoNet Standards Document will be a thorough and
|
||
complete documentation of how to send mail between computers via
|
||
communications links. Can you believe it, this will contain the
|
||
first complete documentation of XMODEM protocol. This document
|
||
will be used by authors of other systems to incorporate FidoNet
|
||
compatibility.
|
||
|
||
A 64k microcomputer (commodore, volkswagen, etc.) could not
|
||
load the entire Fido program and could not possibly participate
|
||
in the network. With this document, programmers will have the
|
||
tools to adapt their communications software to the FidoNet
|
||
requirements. Voila, worldwide mail network brought to you by
|
||
FidoNet.
|
||
|
||
Some enterprising Fido Sysops have already worked out links
|
||
to other networks, Usenet and Bitnet, to name two. Imagine it,
|
||
other non-micro based nets could spring up that use the FidoNet
|
||
Standards and thereby be directly compatible with any Fido
|
||
system. It's just incredible.
|
||
|
||
Rest of the Meeting
|
||
===================
|
||
|
||
There were interesting sessions on SEAdog, Thom Henderson;
|
||
Fido with Multilink, Allen Miller (cough, cough); USRobotics,
|
||
Welch and Smith (I think); Echomail, Jeff Rush; Routing, Ben
|
||
Fidonews Page 12 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
Baker; ARC, Andy Foray; FidoNet International, Henk Wevers &
|
||
Frank Thornley; Unix Gateway, Bob Hartman; and NAPLS, Dave
|
||
Hughes.
|
||
|
||
In addition to the formal presentations, there were many,
|
||
many impromptu sessions in the hallways, bar and nice hospitality
|
||
suite that SEA provided.
|
||
|
||
We went to the Flying W Ranch Saturday night for some cowboy
|
||
food and music. The Flying W Ranch is number two in the United
|
||
States for consumption of red beans, next to Wendy's. We had a
|
||
great meal and got to hear some good picking and strumming. The
|
||
clouds in the sky were forgiving and we had a lot of fun. The
|
||
food lines served 1,400 people in 25 minutes. That's what I call
|
||
a chuck wagon.
|
||
|
||
Sunday morning we got to ride the Manitou and Pikes Peak
|
||
Railway Cog Wheel Train up to the top of Pikes Peak. We rode
|
||
from 6,000' to 14,110' in about one hour. The views were
|
||
glorious. It really makes you glad to be alive.
|
||
|
||
The End
|
||
=======
|
||
|
||
Much thanks to our hosts, the Colorado Springs User Group
|
||
and Dick Bertrand, George Wing, Chuck Sanders, Woody Wood, Jim
|
||
Cannell who all worked hard to make our meeting a great success.
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
Fidonews Page 13 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
Problem with the date format in FIDOmail
|
||
|
||
The utility FU have just been released, and I noticed that this
|
||
program writes the the creation date different from FIDO. The
|
||
problem is that Fido cannot recognice which date this mail was
|
||
created so "Delete messages by age" do not work in FIDO. I have a
|
||
suggestion that the syntax for the date will be set so everybody
|
||
which write utilities can use the same expression. From Kermit
|
||
protocoll I got following:
|
||
|
||
Creation Date, expressed as "[yy]yymmdd[ hh:mm[:ss]]" (ISO
|
||
standard julian format), e.g. 831009 23:59. The time is
|
||
optional; if given, it should be in 24-hour format, and the
|
||
seconds may be omitted, and a single space should separate
|
||
the time from the date.
|
||
|
||
Therefore I suggest that the format for FIDOmail creation date is
|
||
YYMMDD HH:MM which only occupies 13 bytes and because of that it
|
||
will be 7 bytes for future things.
|
||
|
||
This is only the structure in the messages. I think that FIDO
|
||
would write out the date in the same manner as today. Maybe it
|
||
could be changed so it is ok all over the world by using the
|
||
Country Dependent Information (MSDOS SYSTEM CALL 38H).
|
||
|
||
Regards from Europe and Sweden
|
||
Lennart Svensson
|
||
FIDO 501/4602
|
||
|
||
To author of FU: I hope you recognize the problem with your date
|
||
format.
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
Fidonews Page 14 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
Kurt Kurosawa
|
||
19/201
|
||
|
||
HELP OUT LOEK!
|
||
|
||
|
||
The message which appeared in Dutch on p 14 of Fido328.Nws is
|
||
here translated by Jeanine Fegan. Mrs. Fegan has consented to
|
||
translate into Dutch any reply you wish to send Loek Jansen. Send
|
||
your reply through Kurt Kurosawa at 19/201 (Texarkana Region/
|
||
Fido's Domain, 318-869-1258, Sysop: Nevin Nobles).
|
||
|
||
--[ English Translation ]----------------------------------
|
||
|
||
Hello, everybody! There are some problems with Commodores using
|
||
Fido:
|
||
|
||
1st - Upload. This doesn't work with the Teletron 1200 or
|
||
Multimodem 64.
|
||
|
||
2nd - Download. This doesn't work with these modems, either. A
|
||
few users asked me several times what we can do about this.
|
||
|
||
Does someone have a solution or know of a modem that doesn't have
|
||
these problems? [ Note: It would help if you knew of one which is
|
||
sold in Holland, or could send PD or Freeware programs that would
|
||
enable the use of these modems --KK ]
|
||
|
||
There are two new programs from Commodore users that I'd like to
|
||
post for downloading IF they're in the public domain. They were
|
||
written for the Micro-Master tournament. If you know something
|
||
about these programs, please let me know.
|
||
|
||
"Friendly greetings", Loek Jansen, Sysop Rozenburg 1
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
Fidonews Page 15 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
Bob Robesky, 10/26
|
||
|
||
More coals on the fire
|
||
or
|
||
IFNA in 500 words or less
|
||
|
||
For those who think IFNA came out of a hat. Its formation
|
||
was discussed in Fido Newsletter # 325.
|
||
|
||
There can be no doubt but that the initial formation of IFNA
|
||
and it's implementation were handled poorly. However, I have a
|
||
very real problem in suddenly deciding that the folks who have
|
||
kept it organized and running for the past two years, have
|
||
written many of the utilities and compiled and shipped the
|
||
newsletter, have given freely of their time and money, are
|
||
suddenly to be viewed as untrustworthy money grubbing assholes. I
|
||
don't really believe we are witnessing the beginning of an evil
|
||
empire.
|
||
|
||
The issue that only those in attendance who were paid up
|
||
members of IFNA would have the right to vote was stupid and was
|
||
dropped at the actual business meeting.
|
||
|
||
The question of proxy votes was never discussed by anyone at
|
||
the business meeting though it was mentioned in the newsletter.
|
||
|
||
Tom Jennings and Fido Software are a separate issue from
|
||
IFNA. Tom is on IFNA the board of directors, but Fido Software
|
||
is NOT part of IFNA.
|
||
|
||
(I personally think that Tom should be compensated for Fido.
|
||
Many of us use Fido as both a hobby and to promote our
|
||
businesses. I own a computer store, I hope to gain sales, but I
|
||
don't force anyone to buy from me in order to use the board. I
|
||
also don't run a non-profit business. There is no rational reason
|
||
to believe that Tom Jennings should continue to provide us with
|
||
free entertainment. He is a programmer and that's how he makes
|
||
his living; the Fido code belongs to him, not us.
|
||
|
||
An aside in an aside: the FidoNet standard is going to be,
|
||
has been, made public and will allow any one who wants to to
|
||
write a truly "free" bbs system that incorporates the FidoNet
|
||
protocol.
|
||
|
||
Besides which, it is not really clear to me that TJ is going
|
||
to charge for version 12. What is clear is that the Version 12
|
||
reference manual will cost money. It is being written by a
|
||
professional writer, it is being bound in book form, and both of
|
||
these items cost money; writers and publishers don't work for
|
||
nothing.
|
||
|
||
If there is a charge for the new version you have some
|
||
choices. If you don't want to buy it, don't. As I understand it,
|
||
there is no real compelling reason to upgrade unless you are
|
||
involved to international mail. If you don't think Tom Jennings
|
||
should be paid for the work he has done, and, until now anyway,
|
||
Fidonews Page 16 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
the fun and enjoyment he has brought you, well then, don't pay
|
||
him. Another choice, of course, is to buy one copy of version 12
|
||
and spread it all over the Net; not a very nice solution, but it
|
||
would certainly stifle Tom's attempt to make some money off his
|
||
software and probably kill Fido in the process.)
|
||
|
||
Back to IFNA: what the hell can IFNA really do without our
|
||
cooperation?
|
||
|
||
IFNA is only a name with no real power until we give it, and
|
||
can't, at least at this time, be mandatory; how are they going to
|
||
make you join if you don't want to? The immediate advantage of
|
||
being a member of IFNA is that you will, at least, I hope you
|
||
will, have a say about the by-laws and how IFNA will be run and
|
||
what it's direction will be. If you are not a member you will
|
||
have no input, and it will be harder to change, or implement,
|
||
anything after the initial structure is in place. The long range
|
||
advantages range from potential tax deductions to a political
|
||
power base.
|
||
|
||
However, and this is a big however, without us IFNA is
|
||
nothing more that a name registered on a few pieces of paper in
|
||
the state of Missouri. IFNA, at least at this point, does not own
|
||
the rights to much of anything. The FidoNet utilities are already
|
||
written, the structure is in place. Everything needed to function
|
||
is already available. So, if IFNA becomes a closed society,
|
||
requires mandatory attendance at meetings in Missouri on the 14
|
||
of each month when the moon, or is it the sun, is in Aquarius,
|
||
bites your dog, pisses in the pool, etc.; well then fork'em,
|
||
start an alternate Network.
|
||
|
||
And here folks is what we're talking about in real money: 48
|
||
cents a week, less than the cost of a soft-drink, less than a
|
||
beer, certainly less than a pack of cigarettes.
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
Fidonews Page 17 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
HLee - Jones' Nose Fido 101/132
|
||
|
||
|
||
A Big Week For FidoNet
|
||
|
||
The past week or so has been a big one for FidoNet. There was
|
||
the Fido Conference, and a Fido made national news by being the
|
||
largest pirate board yet uncovered.
|
||
|
||
In some ways, I think these two events are related by more than
|
||
the time of their occurrence.
|
||
|
||
|
||
Perceptions of the Net
|
||
|
||
I read with interest the newsletter articles on the Fido
|
||
Conference, and the great forment regarding the formalization of
|
||
IFNA.
|
||
|
||
It reminded me of some of the discussions I had with some of the
|
||
principals years ago. Their conclusion was that FidoNet is not a
|
||
democracy, but a bunch of small fiefdoms unified by a common
|
||
technology.
|
||
|
||
Another way of putting this is that FidoNet is what its sysops
|
||
perceive it to be, with the caveat that the sysops did not
|
||
control the technology - Tom Jennings and St. Louis control the
|
||
technology.
|
||
|
||
|
||
Why we run a Fido
|
||
|
||
Before we can understand why FidoNet exists, each of the
|
||
individual sysops has to understand why their individual Fido's
|
||
exist.
|
||
|
||
In our case, we run a BBS to allow us to collect and distribute
|
||
public domain software among local users, mail among local users,
|
||
and communications among the developers and beta testers of our
|
||
company. We run Fido in particular because of the wide variety
|
||
of file transfer protocols it supports. (This is a particular
|
||
thorn in our side, as we shall discuss later.) The network is
|
||
strictly a side benefit, one that costs more monetarily than it
|
||
returns in any sense.
|
||
|
||
|
||
Far be it from me to agree with Mikey
|
||
|
||
Mike Hamilton and I certainly have had our disagreements. I have
|
||
also had my disagreements with both Mr. Jennings and the St.
|
||
Louis crowd.
|
||
|
||
However, from what I read, Mike (Mikey as he is derisively
|
||
referred to by everyone - and Lord Mikey by myself in the past)
|
||
seems to be under attack because he is asking questions -
|
||
questions that seem to be valid. When I was there, despite my
|
||
Fidonews Page 18 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
problems with him, and despite reservations I had with the
|
||
technical solutions he implemented as the local host, Mike did
|
||
one hell of a job. I find it difficult to believe that Mike is
|
||
Fidonews Page 19 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
whining about the money per se, which is the implication of many
|
||
of the authors in the past newsletter.
|
||
|
||
|
||
I already pay for about everything
|
||
|
||
In running our Fido, we already pay for just about everything
|
||
ourselves. We have to pick up our own newsletters and nodelists.
|
||
We get very little net mail, and a good bit of that is file
|
||
attached, and therefore not routed through any hosts.
|
||
|
||
|
||
Our node takes NO money from our operations
|
||
|
||
There is a very simple reason for this, one that I will hammer
|
||
home again and again: If I take money for running my system, I am
|
||
obligated to provide something. (That something would have to be
|
||
well defined, which is one of the reasons we don't.)
|
||
|
||
|
||
How this all relates to the Pirate Fido
|
||
|
||
How does all this relate to the Pirate Fido? Well, until just
|
||
recently, the informal political structure of Fido was presented
|
||
in a document called Policy1 or Policy2. In these documents,
|
||
there were essentially three rules stated: Be a NetNode during
|
||
the national window, don't hassle another sysop, and don't put up
|
||
pirate software. The rest of the document goes to great lengths
|
||
to describe how the various levels of sysops or netops or
|
||
whatever you want to call them are supposed to (for want of a
|
||
better word) enforce these rules, and what the appeal process for
|
||
this enforcement is.
|
||
|
||
Now that Fido was NOT shut down through this process - it was
|
||
shut down from the outside. While I hope Mr. Miller is correct
|
||
in the statements he made in his letter to InfoWorld about most
|
||
Fido's being honest, I am dissillusioned that, for some reason,
|
||
this gaucherie was allowed to continue despite the formal
|
||
policies. I find it quite difficult to believe that a pirate
|
||
board of that magnitude (and apparent openness) was not known at
|
||
least to the local net, which would seem to imply that at least
|
||
the local net failed to meet its responsibilities as outlined in
|
||
the aforementioned documents.
|
||
|
||
The formalization of IFNA can only lead to more rules - I am not
|
||
saying this is good or bad per se. But I have to ask myself what
|
||
will happen in the future when there are more rules, and more
|
||
formal mechanisms for their enforcement, when we cannot abide by
|
||
the simplest of rules now? Given that the money IFNA wants to
|
||
take in will not be used for salaries, how will more time be
|
||
budgeted to these problems?
|
||
|
||
|
||
Understandings, Misunderstandings, and Questions
|
||
|
||
IFNA Membership will not be required to be on the nodelist
|
||
Fidonews Page 20 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
This was the most re-assuring statement I read in the whole
|
||
newsletter. It will be interesting to see how many pay the
|
||
membership, and at what juncture.
|
||
Fidonews Page 21 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
Railroading and expediency
|
||
|
||
There was a lot of discussion about railroading - that IFNA had
|
||
basically determined what they were going to do and tried to just
|
||
force it on the body of the meeting.
|
||
|
||
I believe there are valid arguments on both sides of the
|
||
discussion. On the one hand, if the initial articles of
|
||
incorporation allow sufficient input, they are certainly not cast
|
||
in concrete (it is just a lot of "legal stuff" in that sense.) It
|
||
also makes sense that a well defined outline of the structure,
|
||
and perhaps one or two alternatives are best prepared in small
|
||
groups, and then presented to the body as a whole for discussion
|
||
and affirmation.
|
||
|
||
However, as tight as time is for everyone involved, I believe the
|
||
IFNA officers dropped the ball by not giving the body as a whole
|
||
a much better idea, in writing, of what was going to happen, what
|
||
the structure will be, and what the alternatives are. This
|
||
should have been in the hands of anyone coming to the meeting
|
||
before they even left for it. It should have been in the hands
|
||
of those of us who could not attend, with enough time for
|
||
discussion across the net.
|
||
|
||
There is an important question this raises. The monies IFNA
|
||
takes in are NOT supposed to be allocated to salaries. (That is
|
||
my understanding of the facts, not necessarily a statement of my
|
||
feelings on the wisdom of the decision ... an important
|
||
distinction.) Given this, the IFNA officers should not have
|
||
significantly more time to dedicate to politics and organization
|
||
in the future than they have in the past - in fact, as FidoNet
|
||
grows, they will have to spend more time tending to the
|
||
technology. Given all of this, what reason is there to expect
|
||
IFNA to do a better job in the future than they have in the past?
|
||
|
||
|
||
Rates of Growth
|
||
|
||
An important point that seems to have been ignored in the
|
||
discussions in the newsletter is the rate of growth. FidoNet has
|
||
been growing at about 100% per year - doubling in size every
|
||
year. If we assume that the $25 is contributed by every node,
|
||
this means we are talking about a $100K budget in two years.
|
||
While I have no reason to assume that everyone will kick in $25,
|
||
I have a feeling that if IFNA does emerge alive from this
|
||
quagmire, it will be close to 100%. I certainly have no reason
|
||
to assume the rate of growth will subside - it would seem to me
|
||
the national density of Fido population should approach what it
|
||
is now in metropolitan areas - in other words, 10's of thousands
|
||
of them.
|
||
|
||
One statement that really bothered me was attributed to Ken
|
||
Kaplan - that the $25 IFNA fee might be enforced for all nodes to
|
||
LIMIT the growth of the net. I had always been under the
|
||
impression the goal was to EXPAND the net - was I simply mistaken
|
||
in this, or have the goals changed?
|
||
Fidonews Page 22 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
"They have been running it for 2.5 years and can keep running it"
|
||
|
||
This is not a direct quote, but an attribution to TJ in the past
|
||
newsletter. I cannot comment on the veracity of the attribution.
|
||
However, the statement itself reveals a basic flaw in FidoNet.
|
||
FidoNet is no longer Tom Jennings' or Ken Kaplan's or whoever's
|
||
baby. It is ours, the sysops, as a whole.
|
||
|
||
|
||
When I pay for something, I expect something for it
|
||
|
||
As I mentioned before, I have this peculiar New England trait -
|
||
when I pay for something, I expect something in return. One of
|
||
the things I expect is a product that works. Fido does, largely,
|
||
but in one or two areas, it does not. Particularly, Kermit and
|
||
the limited range of modem support.
|
||
|
||
It is extremely bothersome that TJ insists the Kermit problems
|
||
are on the Columbia tape itself. For a number of technical
|
||
reasons (the limited character set you can pump through a packet
|
||
switched network) I HAVE to use Kermit of all the protocols
|
||
offered by Fido. And despite Mr. Jenning's protestations, his
|
||
doesn't work, and all the versions I have taken off the Columbia
|
||
tape (about 6 in regular use, including Unix) do.
|
||
|
||
|
||
Conversely, I don't generally pay for a pig in a poke
|
||
|
||
From what I have read, this is exactly what was asked of the
|
||
attendees at the Fido conference.
|
||
|
||
|
||
A bottomless pit
|
||
|
||
The $25 IFNA fee would probably not kill most Fido sysops.
|
||
However, it does not stop there, and that is what scares a lot of
|
||
us.
|
||
|
||
TJ is talking $40 (effectively) for Fido itself. At that price,
|
||
I assume that is for a single version, and the next one (and the
|
||
next one) will cost close to the same. You can't run a Fido
|
||
without ARC ($35-$50 depending on how you go about it.) You need
|
||
a nodelist editor of some sort (another $25 or so). You probably
|
||
need communications software - $50?
|
||
|
||
So all the sudden, the relatively minimal cost becomes much much
|
||
greater. More importantly, the rules are changed, in a very
|
||
insidious way. We were all brought into the net under one set of
|
||
assumptions - that we could get on board for nothing, get the
|
||
latest and greatest software and documentation for nothing. and
|
||
communicate cheaply. All the sudden, this seems to be changing -
|
||
after 1000 sysops and god knows how many users have come to count
|
||
on the network.
|
||
|
||
|
||
|
||
Fidonews Page 23 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
My Five Cents
|
||
|
||
Version 12 should not be mandated until alternatives are
|
||
sanctioned
|
||
Fidonews Page 24 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
One or two of the articles in the newsletter referenced Fido
|
||
alternatives, and the documentation of the Fido protocols. I
|
||
believe one of the most important steps to be taken is the
|
||
separation of the technology from the politics.
|
||
|
||
Tom Jennings has, without doubt or reservation, accomplished a
|
||
masterful feat in Fido. But even the best of artists can have
|
||
feet of clay.
|
||
|
||
Feel free to jump all over me if I'm wrong (you will anyway) but
|
||
one has to at least question the timing and motives of the
|
||
changes of v12. It comes at a time when the existing standards
|
||
are to be documented to the point of allowing the existance of
|
||
clones. Will it be compatible with previous versions (and
|
||
clones), and if not, how major will the changes be, and how
|
||
forthcoming will TJ be with the specifications of those changes?
|
||
|
||
It might be wise for IFNA not to make this transition until
|
||
clones are available and sanctioned, if for no other reason than
|
||
to eliminate possible conflict of interest charges. (It appears
|
||
to me that you virtually MUST pay for V12, and FidoSoft is a
|
||
profit making corporation (at least in the legal sense as I
|
||
understand it) and that FidoSoft will therefore directly benefit
|
||
from a decision by IFNA, a non-profit organization, to upgrade
|
||
the network to v12.)
|
||
|
||
|
||
DECUS parallels
|
||
|
||
A lot of the structure outlined seems to reflect the roots of the
|
||
St. Louis crowd - DECUS. This is not necessarily bad - DECUS
|
||
does a great job at what it does. But there are crucial
|
||
differences - most of them related to money.
|
||
|
||
A DECUS member understands that membership is basically a ticket
|
||
to spend more money, and comes from an environment where that
|
||
spending can be afforded. A DECUS member understands the value
|
||
of intangible things like conferences.
|
||
|
||
I am not sure the same is true of your typical Fido sysop. The
|
||
$25 annual membership to IFNA is not an expense charged to the
|
||
company in most cases - it's a couple of pizzas not bought, a
|
||
couple of movies not seen, or what have you. The sysop is going
|
||
to want to see something tangible for that $25 - and I have not
|
||
seen anyone say what more they will get than what they already
|
||
have. (I am not saying I AGREE this is right, merely that I
|
||
understand the perception.)
|
||
|
||
There is another major difference between IFNA and DECUS. DECUS
|
||
members have a much wider choice of vendors than potential IFNA
|
||
members. Sure, you have to have a DEC processor to be a DECUS
|
||
member - but last time I looked, an 11/23 cost around $500, with
|
||
all the other components obtainable from vendors other than DEC.
|
||
From what was presented in the newsletter, IFNA will not be
|
||
sanctioning Fidoclones until after v12 is released. In other
|
||
words, the traditional "friendly adversary" relationship between
|
||
Fidonews Page 25 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
DECUS and DEC will not exist between IFNA and FidoSoft. This is
|
||
not necessarily bad per se, but it will continue to raise
|
||
questions at every phase of IFNA/FidoNet development.
|
||
Fidonews Page 26 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
Source Code for Fido - Fido From IFNA, not FidoSoft
|
||
|
||
IFNA should consider sanctioning and distributing a source level
|
||
Fido clone. (This is not to say that all IFNA sanctioned Fido
|
||
clones should be distributed in source -just the first ones.)
|
||
|
||
I would much rather see IFNA charge more and be the sole source
|
||
(or primary source) for Fido Software than the incestous
|
||
relationship between IFNA and FidoSoft currently proposed.
|
||
|
||
If TJ is not willing to contract to do this work, I believe IFNA
|
||
should freeze FidoNet at v11 levels until a sanctioned, source
|
||
version is available.
|
||
|
||
There are arguments both for and against source code
|
||
availability. The notable argument against is that it makes it
|
||
simple to intentionally or unintentionally screw up the net.
|
||
However, the political structure of the network in theory should
|
||
keep these problems in check.
|
||
|
||
On the other side, we currently have all our eggs in one basket,
|
||
and from my point of view, the basket leaks. Beyond this, there
|
||
are things the users want that TJ/IFNA say are not possible, or
|
||
that TJ does not have the time or inclination to do. I maintain
|
||
that very little is not possible, but by forcing others to start
|
||
from total scratch, they make it nearly so. I have also heard
|
||
arguments (that I do not believe) that there are trapdoors in
|
||
Fido itself. I would feel better in any case if I could look at
|
||
the source to determine this for myself.
|
||
|
||
|
||
IFNA better become more realistic about other uses of the net
|
||
|
||
I believe that many Fido sysops percieve FidoNet as an
|
||
alternative to large, charged systems, with limitations. The
|
||
original goals of the founders of the network did not exactly
|
||
jibe with this. In particular, the main stated goal of the net
|
||
is to allow for cheap, point to point messaging. The explosion
|
||
of echomail on the network, and the desire for both broadcast,
|
||
and truly private forms of messaging indicate that point to point
|
||
messaging is only ONE of the percieved goals.
|
||
|
||
I believe it will be difficult to resolve the political issues
|
||
while maintaining the limited, point to point orientation of the
|
||
net.
|
||
|
||
In fact, while it may be simpler from TJ's point of view, I am
|
||
not really clear on why Fido and FidoNet are two different things
|
||
- it would seem a better design to simply allow for either at any
|
||
time with sysop control - and it is my understanding this is what
|
||
SEADog in fact does.
|
||
|
||
|
||
For the formation, only a node number should be required to vote
|
||
|
||
I agree that once IFNA is going and in place, that dues should be
|
||
Fidonews Page 27 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
paid. However, until that time, it seems reasonable to me that a
|
||
node number, and only a node number should be required to vote on
|
||
Fidonews Page 28 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
the initial bylaws.
|
||
|
||
|
||
The problem is not money - it is time
|
||
|
||
One basic gap in the logic of all the articles on the
|
||
conference/IFNA formation is the arguments about money. Money is
|
||
not really the problem - Time is. A number of people said that
|
||
the phone costs for distributing nodelists was not the major cost
|
||
of running IFNA - it was the costs of hand-holding and question
|
||
answering. If this is true (which seems very reasonable to me),
|
||
then those costs are minimal compared to the cost of Ken Kaplan's
|
||
time doing same, or whoever is IFNA.
|
||
|
||
To reject out of hand the use of IFNA funds for salaries seems
|
||
like a foolish place to begin.
|
||
|
||
|
||
I am NOT questioning the motives of IFNA, TJ, or anyone
|
||
|
||
I believe that everyone involved is trying to do their best by
|
||
FidoNet. However, we started out with statements about FidoNet
|
||
being what its sysops percieve it to be - and while the motives
|
||
behind the actions of IFNA are probably above board, they have
|
||
not done a good job in keeping the perception of same on the part
|
||
of the sysops. IFNA must understand that the symbiotic balance
|
||
between TJ and IFNA and the body of sysops as a whole has
|
||
changed. In the past, the network operators could basically
|
||
dictate the operation of the net as they pleased. But the
|
||
success of the net, while due to their decisions, depends on the
|
||
body of sysops. And at this time, the body of sysops are in a
|
||
position to survive without IFNA. I am NOT advocating this - I
|
||
believe it would be tragic. But it scares me that people pointed
|
||
this out to IFNA in very blunt terms in the newsletter. IFNA
|
||
must choose its path carefully, and perhaps more importantly,
|
||
publicly.
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
Fidonews Page 29 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
A CRY FOR SUPPORT!
|
||
DEDICATED TO
|
||
V I E T N A M V E T E R A N S
|
||
Their Wives, Lovers, and Friends
|
||
Dedicated to those of us who know the true cost of war
|
||
And have paid the cost!
|
||
|
||
A unique concept in the electronic bulletin board communic-
|
||
ations medium has come to being in the San Francisco South Bay
|
||
city of San Jose, California. Its overwhelming success during
|
||
its first 30 days of existence has made quite evident the fact
|
||
that such a public service was needed. Many call seeking solace
|
||
and support in it's message bases, others simply to rekindle the
|
||
friendships born in that conflict.
|
||
|
||
The sysops, Todd and Nancy, are more than qualified to host
|
||
such a public service, as they are both Vietnam veterans. Todd
|
||
served as a Medical Field Surgeon attached to the United States
|
||
Army's 101st Airborne, having survived the horrors of being a
|
||
Prisoner of War in a Laotian prison camp. Nancy, his wife,
|
||
fought her war years after Todd returned from the steamy jungles
|
||
of Southeast Asia. Together they fought to keep alive a rela-
|
||
tionship that was everything to them, and succeeded only after a
|
||
bitter struggle where everything was nearly lost.
|
||
|
||
Both of them feel a certain obligation to share themselves
|
||
with the countless men and women who are still fighting their
|
||
war, with the hopes that somehow through their empathetic inter-
|
||
vention, they might help some of them find an end to that war.
|
||
It is also their hope to enlighten those who were not a part of
|
||
this `war' in such a way as historians will never succeed in
|
||
doing.
|
||
|
||
Now, Don Kulha, sysop of the Survival Communication Forum
|
||
125/7, another Fido bulletin board north of the San Francisco Bay
|
||
in Santa Rosa, California has joined in Todd and Nancy's efforts
|
||
to provide a place where not only veterans of the Vietnam `war'
|
||
can meet to share their thoughts and feelings, but where those
|
||
who love and care for them can find solice as well. Something
|
||
good is happening in California!
|
||
|
||
What Todd, Nancy, and Don need now is your support in making
|
||
a good thing even better! The time has come to begin a national
|
||
Echo-mail Vietnam Veteran's Conference where we can bring other
|
||
concerned persons together all across this United States of
|
||
America!
|
||
|
||
As the largest amateur network in the world, we can make
|
||
this a grand success! If you would be interested in joining with
|
||
us in this service, let us know by sending us a message. Echo-
|
||
mail is rather a mystery to both the LooneyBin and the Survival
|
||
Communications BBS's, so even if you don't feel the call to be-
|
||
come part of what w are doing by joining in the national con-
|
||
ference, you can still support us with advice regarding the in-
|
||
tricacies involved in setting such a medium up. Any support you
|
||
can offer will be greatly appreciated.
|
||
Fidonews Page 30 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
We're looking forward to "hearing" from you soon!
|
||
|
||
Sincerely Yours,
|
||
|
||
Todd and Nancy Looney Don Kulha
|
||
The LooneyBin 143/27 Survival Comm. Forum 125/7
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
Fidonews Page 31 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
FOR SALE
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
|
||
Now available from Micro Consulting Associates!!
|
||
|
||
Public Domain collection - 550+ "ARC" archives - 20+ megs of
|
||
software and other goodies, and that's "archived" size!
|
||
When unpacked, you get approximately 28 megabytes worth of
|
||
all kinds of software, from text editors to games to
|
||
unprotection schemes to communications programs, compilers,
|
||
interpreters, etc... Over 66 DS/DD diskettes!! This
|
||
collection is the result of more than 15 months of intensive
|
||
downloads from just about 150 or more BBS's and other
|
||
sources, all of which have been examined, indexed and
|
||
archived for your convenience. Starting a Bulletin Board
|
||
System? Want to add on to your software base without
|
||
spending thousands of dollars? This is the answer!!!
|
||
|
||
To order the library, send $100 (personal or company check,
|
||
postal money order or company purchase order) to:
|
||
|
||
Micro Consulting Associates, Fido 1/110
|
||
Post Office Box 4296
|
||
200-1/2 E. Balboa Boulevard
|
||
Balboa, Ca. 92661-4296
|
||
|
||
Please allow 3 weeks for delivery of your order.
|
||
|
||
Note: No profit is made from the sale of the Public Domain
|
||
software in this collection. The price is applied entirely
|
||
to the cost of downloading the software over the phone
|
||
lines, running a BBS to receive file submissions, and
|
||
inspecting, cataloguing, archiving and maintaining the
|
||
files. Obtaining this software yourself through the use of a
|
||
computer with a modem using commercial phone access would
|
||
cost you much more than what we charge for the service...
|
||
|
||
The following format choices are available:
|
||
|
||
- IBM PC-DOS Backup utility
|
||
- Zenith MS-DOS 2.11 Backup Utility
|
||
- DSBackup
|
||
- Fastback
|
||
- ACS INTRCPT 720k format (Requires a 1.2m floppy
|
||
drive and PC-DOS 3.2)
|
||
- Plain ol' files (add $50)
|
||
|
||
Add $30 if you want the library on 1.2 meg AT disks (more
|
||
expensive disks). There are no shipping or handling
|
||
charges. California residents add 6% tax.
|
||
|
||
For each sale, $10 will go to the FidoNet Administrators.
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
Fidonews Page 32 8 Sep 1986
|
||
|
||
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
NOTICES
|
||
=================================================================
|
||
|
||
The Interrupt Stack
|
||
|
||
|
||
24 Aug 1989
|
||
Voyager 2 passes Neptune.
|
||
|
||
|
||
If you have something which you would like to see on this
|
||
calendar, please send a message to FidoNet node 1/1.
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
Generic George by Bruce White, 109/612
|
||
+-------------------------------------------------+
|
||
| Honey, you wanna come |
|
||
| play a game with my |
|
||
| joystick? |
|
||
| Oh, not tonight, dear. \ |
|
||
| I have a headache. \ |
|
||
| / ?? \ ____\__ |
|
||
| / \ \ |_| \ |
|
||
| / _____ |\ |
|
||
| | _ | | |
|
||
| ______ | |_| | | |
|
||
| __(______)_|_____|___ | |
|
||
| ||-----------------|| | |
|
||
| ______ || || | |
|
||
| \ {} / || || | |
|
||
|(c) 1986 bw \__/ ||-----------------||__|__|
|
||
+-------------------------------------------------+
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
A new net has been created in Southern California, net 166. This
|
||
net consists of members of net 103 that have split off to form
|
||
our own net due to disagreements about net management procedures
|
||
with the 103 host. If you are in Southern California and would
|
||
like to join us, send us a mail message to 166/1. The nodelist
|
||
will show the new net starting with NODELIST.248.
|
||
|
||
Node 103/511 (DataFlex Fido) is now the host of net 166.
|
||
|
||
-----------------------------------------------------------------
|
||
|
||
|