697 lines
32 KiB
Plaintext
697 lines
32 KiB
Plaintext
America Online
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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Tuesday, March 5, 1991 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
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Topic: Operating Systems
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Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
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Z Factor help help please
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ShanoJ What's up, Z
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AFL Dyfet GA Z...
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Z Factor what is the complete syntax for random access text file writing in
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prodos 8???
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Z Factor including parameters?
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AFL Dyfet Do you mean from Basic or the MLI?
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AFA Gary J Yes, under what language?
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Z Factor basic, but it doesn't really make a diff because prodos is by
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itself
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Z Factor (i suppose i could use RWTS tho)
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Z Factor is it WRITE FILENAME,Rr,Ff or WRITE FILENAME,Rr,Bb???????
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AFL Dyfet You need an open first :)
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Z Factor (fields or bytes)
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Z Factor :)
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AFL Dyfet As in OPEN FILENAME,Rreclen
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AFA Gary J That's the whole key.
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Z Factor yes but if inside the record there are fields, can i access them
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separately?
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Z Factor or do i have to use bytes?
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AFL Dyfet And then you can do READ FILENAME,Rrec# and WRITE FILE,Rrec#.
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Applesoft does
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AFL Dyfet not use fielded file buffers like some basics's do :)....You can
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only read the
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AFL Dyfet record as a line.....the B parameter is for byte offset, which you
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can use
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AFL Dyfet in place of record number to move around the file....
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Z Factor but there are fields inside!
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Z Factor there is another parameter, what is it???
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ShanoJ non OS ?
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Z Factor but can i use the B parameter inside the Record?
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Z Factor as in READ FILE,Rrecord,Bbyteoffset?
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AFL Dyfet It's been a long time since I've played with Basic.System :)
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WinkieJim David, there is a F parameter....
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WinkieJim the F param let's you count the number of carriage returns... 0 is
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the
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WinkieJim start of the record, 1 is the first CR, 2 the 2nd...
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Dave Lyons (You could do a READ filename,Rr and then do a series of INPUTs,
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but you'd always have to read
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Dave Lyons the sub-fields sequentially starting with the first one, inside
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each record.)
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Z Factor listen to jim. there is a field parameter i'm sure of it...
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AFL Dyfet The F parameter is to skip lines in a (really text normally)
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file...
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Z Factor but can it be used to skip fields within the record using
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CR's???
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Z Factor (i know this is a long question but it's very important)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I do not recall for certain, but I believe ,F is relative to
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the current
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WinkieJim Z left...
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AFL Dyfet Oh well....
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AFL Dyfet This is going to be one of those nights :)
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ShanoJ Winkie can go before me... Mine's kinda unrelated... :)
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AFL Dyfet GA Winkie...it seems we are at you again :)
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WinkieJim Mine's not even close to that last question...:)
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WinkieJim Ok, I've installed a Heartbeat task and it's being called with no
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problem...
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WinkieJim With it just trying to find a key combination it works fine, but
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when I
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WinkieJim stuck in a _GetName call to see what program's running it will
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bomb after
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WinkieJim being called 3-5 times...
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WinkieJim I made sure that the system isn't busy by checking the busy
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flag...
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WinkieJim Any ideas?
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Coach101 Testing....
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AFL Dyfet You called _GetName from within your HeartBeat ISR, though?
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WinkieJim David, right
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AFL Dyfet GA Jonah...
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ShanoJ Isn't there ANOTHER flag that says when GSOS is busy? And, if I
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remember
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ShanoJ correctly, a whole other queue for tasks like that (ie. interrupt
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type tasks
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ShanoJ that call GSOS)....
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave :)
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Dave Lyons The OS -has- a busy flag of its own, but it also increments
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Dave Lyons the system busy flag during a call, so there should be no problem
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there.
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Dave Lyons Even if you called GS/OS while it was busy, all that would happen
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is you get back error $0007,
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Dave Lyons which means "GS/OS is busy." It doesn't do any harm (unlike
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calling P8 while it's busy).
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Dave Lyons I suspect something is going wrong--maybe unrelated to the call,
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or maybe something's wrong with your
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Dave Lyons parameter block. Are you *providing* a pointer for the result
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string? If you expect it to fill in
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Dave Lyons the pointer for you, you'll be trashing memory--it uses the one
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you provide.
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WinkieJim Well, the same exact code without the _GetName call functions
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fine...
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WinkieJim putting the )GetName call in crashes after 3-5 times
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Dave Lyons And the call returns with no error?
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WinkieJim Dave, no I'm giving it a nice 36 byte buffer to stick the name
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into
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WinkieJim Yup, no error
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Dave Lyons Well, beats me...send some code. ga
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WinkieJim Is there any good text on writting interupt tasks?
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AFL Dyfet I guess we had better move to Jonah's question then :)
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ShanoJ Okay... I just wanna know if anyone here has seen/heard of the SDE
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Shell from
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ShanoJ SEA software... It's supposedly a massively cool replacement for
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APW. Comments?
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AFL Dyfet GA Matt...
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Matt DTS I've seen/heard of it. If you're the guy who wrote it, it's
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perfect for you. It doesn't function the
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Matt DTS same way as the ORCA shell does, which isn't necessarily bad, but
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Apple disagrees with some of the
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Matt DTS author's practices (i.e., getting new user IDs for every file he
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edits, not purging or disposing of
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Matt DTS files in memory when you quit the editor), but it does have some
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nifty menu-script driven capabilities
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Matt DTS and an assembler the author swears is the cats pajamas. End of
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opinion. GA.
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ShanoJ Anyone else? :)
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AFL Dyfet I guess not, Jonah...only heard about it myself...
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ShanoJ Okey doke, I'll be quiet then... :)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, Sting, you have the floor now...go ahead...
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StingRay63 A GS/OS question. Does anyone think it will become a multitasking
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os in
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StingRay63 the future?
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AFL Marty GA Dave
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Dave Lyons GS/OS is unlikely to ever be pre-emptively multitasking, which is
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probably what you're
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Dave Lyons asking; but as I understand it, neither is Unix(tm)! Just because
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you can't yank control
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Dave Lyons away from an OS call doesn't mean you can't do -cooperative-
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multitasking (whether partly
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Dave Lyons interrupt driven or not).
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JWankerl (Yah, the Leapfrog program demonstrates that bit)
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Dave Lyons Many parts of the toolbox already support multitasking to a cool
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enough degree, but then
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Dave Lyons again other parts don't. It's hard to predict. ga
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AFL Dyfet Bumped :(...What Dave points out is very true...I have written a
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simple
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AFL Dyfet scheduler without a single pre-emtive interrupt :)....
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AFL Scott (Is there such a thing as post-emptive? :))
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WinkieJim Scott it's called a crash :)
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AFA Gary J :)
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StingRay63 Just asking because am presently on a //e and would like to
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upgrade in the
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StingRay63 near future. Thanks for the info. ga
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AFL Dyfet Okay, go ahead Winkie...
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WinkieJim Okay, assume the memory manager, misc tools and QD have been
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started up...
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WinkieJim Would starting up the event manger with a different memory ID be
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ok?
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WinkieJim Or do the toolsets like to use the same memID that is given to
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them?
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AFL Dyfet GA Matt...
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Matt DTS Different as in a different auxiliary ID, or different as in a
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totally new user ID?
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WinkieJim totaly new ID
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Matt DTS In reality, the tools currently don't care too much, but they
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might in the future. It's also not
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Matt DTS a nice thing to do (trying to fool the system). Why do you want
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to do it?
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WinkieJim I need to use the event manager from a interupt rouine and am
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trying to start i
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WinkieJim it up if it's not active...
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Dave Lyons Eh? What can you do with the Event Manager from inside an
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interrupt?
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AFL Scott (become recursive:))
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Dave Lyons (Or what do you -think- you can do? :-)
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AFL Dyfet :)
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AFA Gary J :)
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Dave Lyons (And what interrupt?)
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WinkieJim heartbeat task...
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WinkieJim as to what I want to do....
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WinkieJim ...don't think I want to go into that...it's probably won't
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work...just wondering
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WinkieJim what the event manager would recact to being started and
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shutdown within a
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WinkieJim heartbeat task
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Dave Lyons Okay, then for the record
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Dave Lyons I'll just point out that using the EM entirely from inside an
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interrupt routine wouldn't be very
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Dave Lyons helpful, since no key-down or mouse-down events would occur (they
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get posted during interrupts),
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Dave Lyons and the tick count would not advance. Oh, and the mouse location
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would not change. ga
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AFL Dyfet Other than that...:)...An eventless event loop :)
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WinkieJim hmmm, ok, I think that answers my questions...
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Dave Lyons But,
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Dave Lyons if you want to -start- and -stop- it from a hearbeat, I suppose
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you could--although it seems
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Dave Lyons like you'll mostly just confuse the foreground application
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big-time. In that case, I'd recomment
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Dave Lyons you post a GS/OS SIGNAL to do the startup/shutdown, rather than
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actually doing them from inside the
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Dave Lyons heartbeat task. ga again
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WinkieJim GS/OS Signal?
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons Signals are described in one of the GS/OS reference
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books...probably the Driver reference, as MD will
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Dave Lyons probably confirm. You can call the SIGNAL service to post one;
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it's somewhat like calling SchAddTask
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Dave Lyons to make the Scheduler dispatch to your task later, only it doesn't
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depend on the Busy flag being
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Dave Lyons nonzero, and it's a much zanier dispatching mechanism.
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WinkieJim Did you guys add a feature without telling me! :)
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Dave Lyons (The GS/OS Driver Reference is an APDA thang.)
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Matt DTS Coach101 can give you more information on it, but the
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documentation reference is indeed GS/OS Device
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Matt DTS Driver Reference. It's a System Service call, so you can't make
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it from a high-level language without
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Matt DTS glue.
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ShanoJ (see, told you that existed... :)
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Dave Lyons Oh, and interrupts are generally enabled when a signal gets
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dispatched; this is not necessary
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Dave Lyons true for SchAddTask tasks. ga
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Dave Lyons (Or without imbedded assembly code.)
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Dave Lyons (BTW, you can make OS calls from a signal,
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Dave Lyons and EMStartUp might just need to do that, when loading the key
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translation resource.) done
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I guess Parik can have the floor now :)...GA Parik...
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AFA Parik does anyone have the # for Kfest reservations handy?
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JWankerl something 6502
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WinkieJim 913-469-6502
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WinkieJim I like that phone number! :)
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AFA Parik thanks, done
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFA Gary J That was quick.
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AFL Dyfet Okay, does anyone else have a question for tonight?
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WinkieJim That didn't even make matt or Dave sweat...let's get another tough
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one
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AFL Dyfet Ga Wankerl...
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JWankerl How come my fmdEditMenu call isn't working properly?
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Matt DTS Because you're not holding your tongue properly.
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Dave Lyons What's it doing?
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ShanoJ :)
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AFA Gary J :)
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Matt DTS Because your edit menu items don't have the standard menu item
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numbers.
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Dave Lyons (250..254)
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Matt DTS Because ... yeah, what _is_ it doing?
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JWankerl Well... it does its stuff when a NDA is front - so my menu items
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*are*
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JWankerl numbered correctly.
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JWankerl But when something with a LineEdit or TextEdit control in it is
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front,
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JWankerl the edit things are all dimmed.
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Dave Lyons Is there some text selected? Is there anything text on the
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clipboard?
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Dave Lyons If not, they will be dimmed.
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JWankerl I think there is something in the clipboard - didn't think to
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select
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JWankerl something, though. :-)
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Matt DTS Note that FMD will not enable edit items if there is no target
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control, either.
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Dave Lyons Well, no selection explains everything but Paste; if there was no
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text on the clipboard that
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Dave Lyons explains Paste too (or if the target Text Edit control was
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read-only). Yeah, or if you have no
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Dave Lyons target control at all.
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Matt DTS Quoting from the manual you should have picked up at KansasFest:
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Matt DTS "If the current target control is a LineEdit control, fmdEditMenu
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enables cut, copy and clear if
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Matt DTS any text is selected. Paste is also enabled if a text scrap
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longer than zero bytes exists."
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JWankerl Okay. And one more FMD question -- is there a way I can change
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the cursor to
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JWankerl an I-beam in my main event loop (not using the fakeModalDialog
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call) by
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JWankerl using the FMD tools?
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Matt DTS "If [target is editable TE control], fmdEditMenu enables cut, copy
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and clear, and Paste if a >0
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Matt DTS text scrap exists." (For read-only TE records, cut paste and
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clear are disabled.)
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JWankerl (automatically when it passes over a TE or LE control, that is)
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Dave Lyons Isn't there a fmdSetIBeam call?
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Dave Lyons One of them thangs does it.
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JWankerl Yah, there's a call, but I want to change it only if it's over a
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TE or LE
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JWankerl control.
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Matt DTS Sure - use...
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Matt DTS ...fmdGetIBeamAdr. This gives you the address of FMD's IBeam
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cursor so you can do stuff with it,
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Matt DTS although, I don't know why you don't just use fmdIBeamCursor
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instead of SetCursor(fmdGetIBeamAdr).
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Dave Lyons Okay, so call fmdFindCursorCtl to see what control you're over,
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and check the control's procID field
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Dave Lyons to see what kind of control it is.
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JWankerl It'd be nice if FMD did that for me since it has to do it itself
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anyhow.
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Matt DTS Joe - it does!
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AFL Dyfet GA Matt...
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Dave Lyons Matt, he means for windows other than modal dialogs.
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Matt DTS As long as you have bit 3 of the flags word set, FMD automatically
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does that over LE and TE controls.
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Matt DTS Oh...you want FMD to work for non modal-dialog windows? Yeah,
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you'll have to do that yourself.
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Matt DTS FMD wasn't supposed to be the "complete user-interface-in-a-box
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tool", just a step in the
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Matt DTS right direction. GA.
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AFL Dyfet Okay, Coach, go ahead....
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JWankerl I'm done -- for now.
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Coach101 What is FMD?
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ShanoJ Fake Modal Dialog.
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Coach101 Thanks....
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AFL Dyfet Okay, Gary, Ga...
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AFA Gary J Is there anything that could cause an ACE $1D08 error other than
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the obvious
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AFA Gary J source and destination areas overlapping in memory? If not, is
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there any
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AFA Gary J outside occurance that could cause the overlap to occur (such as
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low memory, or
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AFA Gary J just a bogged down system :)
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AFA Gary J GA
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AFA Gary J (I've seen this happen, out of the blue, on a program that has
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been working
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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AFA Gary J for months.... ) GA
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Dave Lyons Gary, weren't you having this same problem last year? :) If it's
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reproducable, I'd like to
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Dave Lyons see it.
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFA Gary J The trouble is, it only occurs on very strange circumstances -
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while I'm in the
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AFA Gary J ORCA shell, and after I've
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run/assembled/linked/run/assembled/linked for many
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AFA Gary J times.
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JWankerl Well that's the problem right there - the ORCA shell!
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AFA Gary J It could be, but that's what I'm wondering.
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Dave Lyons Well, can you modify your program so that on getting the error it
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displays the source and
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Dave Lyons destination parameters, along with the addresses & handle sizes of
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the handles?
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AFA Gary J Yes, that was going to be my next plan, since it has me real
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curious.
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AFA Gary J The trouble is, I have to catch it in the act. I spent 30
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mintutes prior to
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WinkieJim I always get curious when my programs crash too...
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AFA Gary J this conference this evening trying to get it to do it again (so
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I could take
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AFA Gary J a good look with Nifty List), but I couldn't get it to do it. Oh
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well. I may
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AFA Gary J be doing something wrong something wrong, I'll just look harder
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:) GA
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AFL Dyfet GA Coach...
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Coach101 Gary, do you ever have problems with other programs, tools,
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compilers after a whole bunch
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Dave Lyons :), :)
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Coach101 of edit, compile, link, execute iterations in ORCA?
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AFA Gary J Well, sometimes Coach, but I'm not sure if I can attribute it to
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ORCA in every
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AFA Gary J case.
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Coach101 To attempt to exonerate ORCA (or blame your program) you could
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change the program to an S16 and
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Coach101 repetively execute it from another launcher to see if the same
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problem ever appears. ga
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AFA Gary J Well, it IS an S16 program, but it returns to ORCA each time
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(with most shell
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AFA Gary J info intact)
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AFL Dyfet Prizm I'd be more quick to judge harshly than ORCA shell...you
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could use
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AFL Dyfet Nifty to see if anything strange is happening with avail memory
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between each
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AFL Dyfet Orca invokation, Gary :)...
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AFA Gary J Ok, thanks. I'll see what I can figure out.
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James S WI Where can I get DUPLICATE or any utility to copy a resource onto a
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regular file
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AFL Dyfet (James, you can try APDA for the APW tools update...I do not know
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of a pub.
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AFL Dyfet domain 'duplicate)...
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AFL Dyfet (though it would not be hard to write one :)
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Matt DTS Bryan Pietrzak's COPY command copies files with resource forks.
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Part of ZakPak, should be online
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Matt DTS here somewhere.
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AFA Parik (email BRYAN ZAK for info on ZakPak.)
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ShanoJ I'm gunna upload ZakPak as soon as I get a minute...
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AFA Gary J (Great, Jonah! )
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ShanoJ (Even have it all packed, ready to go... :)
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WinkieJim Just checked... There's a program called ResLin that does resource
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moving and
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WinkieJim copying...
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ShanoJ LLRE Is better, Winkie... :)
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James S WI Do they work from the ORCA shell?
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WinkieJim Well I use GeneSys mostly myself..
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ShanoJ They're both dekstop applications....
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James S WI I mean are ther exe or s16?
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James S WI That answers it.
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WinkieJim ResLin is sys16
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AFL Dyfet Okay, Jim...go ahead, you have the floor...
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DYA Jim1 Ok; I think I found a little bug in SF. When the open button is
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dimmed, in
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DYA Jim1 a getfile dialog box, OA-down arrow still works and enables and
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flashes the
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DYA Jim1 open button. It doesn't cause any damage; just a cosmetic thing..
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anyone
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DYA Jim1 else see this?
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons Yup, I did. :-) Don't be surprised if that eventually doesn't
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happen any more. As I recall,
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Dave Lyons the button is left enabled after that little trick, but you're
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right, it's just cosmetic.
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Dave Lyons (BTW, please *do* report stuff like that (to me, for example)--we
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can't have found them all)
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DYA Jim1 Ok.. thanks Dave.. GA
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AFL Dyfet Okay, go ahead Wankerl...
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JWankerl That reminded me of a quirk I just found with SF - when you click
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on the
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JWankerl Volumes button when you're in some directory that's not the root
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and then
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JWankerl you click on the 'Select Volume:' string above the list (or
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whatever it's
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JWankerl titled) you will be taken back one directory from where you
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clicked on the
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JWankerl Volumes button.
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Dave Lyons Really?? Hmmm, hadn't heard of that one. (scribble....)
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JWankerl Actually it's kinda neat if you didn't want to hit the Volumes
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button. :-)
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, do we have any more questions for tonight?
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Dave Lyons (Besides that one?)
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AFL Dyfet That was a question, alright :)
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ShanoJ Okay, I'll take a shot... :)
|
|
AFA Gary J Both of them.
|
|
Dave Lyons ("Sir; may I ask a question?" "Data, I think you just did." "Yes
|
|
sir. Then, may I ask another
|
|
Dave Lyons after this one?")
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
AFL Dyfet Data follows ADV protocol :)
|
|
ShanoJ First: What would people like to see in the way of new programming
|
|
utilities?
|
|
ShanoJ Next: What would people like to see in the way of new NiftyList
|
|
modules (I'm
|
|
ShanoJ kinda getting into them... :)
|
|
JWankerl I'd like to see a NL module that does GSBug Templates. :-)
|
|
Coach101 A post associated source level debugger....
|
|
AFL Dyfet :)
|
|
Dave Lyons How 'bout one that will tell me what next week's Apple stock price
|
|
will be? That would be cool....
|
|
JWankerl Nifty List -- programmer aid and stock broker.
|
|
ShanoJ Would that be a shell utility or a NiftyList module, Dave? :)
|
|
Coach101 Geez Dave, they just lowered your option point for you last summer
|
|
:)
|
|
AFL Dyfet Or one that picks winning Lotto numbers :)
|
|
AFA Gary J I'd like to see one that would identify bit flags (i.e. event
|
|
flags, etc.)
|
|
Matt DTS (We don't give Dave options. That requires him to actually decide
|
|
something.) <ducking>
|
|
AFA Gary J or something like that.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Hmmm...
|
|
Dave Lyons (Yes Matt, you make a nice duck.)
|
|
ShanoJ I thought a cool idea would be something like Templates, but for
|
|
FILES. It'd
|
|
ShanoJ load in a file and label all of the parts for you. Particularly
|
|
useful if
|
|
ShanoJ you're trying to make files for some other program (say AWGS). You
|
|
have your
|
|
ShanoJ program save them, then the module load 'em up, so you can make
|
|
sure that
|
|
ShanoJ everything got into the proper position...
|
|
ShanoJ Then again, I also thought that a MiniAssembler module for
|
|
NiftyList would be
|
|
ShanoJ nice, so what do I know... :)
|
|
Matt DTS Of course, you'll have to make it modular enough so that others
|
|
can add their own file descriptions.
|
|
Coach101 Thats a neat idea Jonah!
|
|
ShanoJ Of course, Matt. That's the whole idea (notice the reference to
|
|
Templates).
|
|
JWankerl Of course it's work for both data forks and resource forks. ;-)
|
|
JWankerl (Reference noted - one brownie point awarded)
|
|
ShanoJ So, I take it from the overwhelming response that the GS is a
|
|
mature computer
|
|
ShanoJ and needs no more utilities?
|
|
AFA Gary J Ha! :) (I think every programmer in the world is constantly
|
|
asking himself the
|
|
AFA Gary J quesion, "What is the utility that everyone needs?" :)
|
|
Matt DTS Jonah, people think of utilities that are needed when they can't
|
|
get something done, not while sitting
|
|
Matt DTS in a conference (unless there's a recent frustration memory).
|
|
ShanoJ Or that because you're all programers yourselves, you wanna keep
|
|
your ideas
|
|
ShanoJ to yourselves... :)
|
|
Dave Lyons (Jonah, maybe they're saying it needs more menu-driven utilties
|
|
and fewer weird-command-line
|
|
Dave Lyons syntax utilities....)
|
|
ShanoJ I didn't say it had to be command line... Desktop utilites count,
|
|
too.
|
|
Dave Lyons (Oh, I thought the question was still "What Nifty List modules do
|
|
people want?" Sorry....)
|
|
AFA Gary J Are you gonna write my Integer Math calculator CDA? If not, I'll
|
|
write it :)
|
|
AFA Gary J (I just want to use it)
|
|
Coach101 Though there is always room for another utility, I do think that
|
|
the IIgs native development
|
|
Coach101 environment is fairly mature.
|
|
Coach101 Now, the hot area may be "development" utilities for developing
|
|
HyperCardIIgs stacks...
|
|
Coach101 Much bigger marketplace I suspect :)
|
|
ShanoJ Oh, has anyone gotten Prizm to work under 5.0.anything?
|
|
JWankerl I didn't use Prizm 10 minutes after I got it. I really dunno.
|
|
ShanoJ Ya, me either... The other day I wanted to play with it a bit (did
|
|
you know
|
|
ShanoJ it does window PANES?!) but it wouldn't boot any more... :(
|
|
JWankerl window panes? Ain't that a new technote somewheres?
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
ShanoJ Naw, that's "Aren't windows a Pane?"
|
|
AFA Gary J Yeah, that's it.
|
|
ShanoJ BTW, Dave, could you explain Mr. Tangent and Of Course I Trust
|
|
You, I'm Just
|
|
ShanoJ Checking?
|
|
JWankerl (and also explain Dave "Eh?" Lyons ;-)
|
|
ShanoJ Or do I have to send EMail to Mike Opitz for that, too? :)
|
|
Dave Lyons Sure,
|
|
Dave Lyons anyone spending significant time near me while I'm supposed to be
|
|
getting work done finds that I
|
|
Dave Lyons frequently go off on tangents. All of them, if possible.
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
Dave Lyons ("Whoa! Now I see why it's crashing, it's doing a BlockMove by 5
|
|
bytes across all the softswitches;
|
|
Dave Lyons Gee, I wonder exactly what effect that has & why...." :)
|
|
Dave Lyons And I would make a good diplomat when it comes to arms control or
|
|
something: Trust and verify.
|
|
Dave Lyons I have to actually try it out or look it up (or preferably both)
|
|
before I believe it (anything
|
|
Dave Lyons relating to the GS, that is).
|
|
Dave Lyons "Mr. Tangent" is on my business cards.
|
|
Matt DTS (He's been known to irritate people by listening to their
|
|
explanations and trying it in Nifty List...
|
|
Matt DTS ...even though they just told him how it works.)
|
|
Dave Lyons And even though they weren't quite right half the time.
|
|
JWankerl You shoulda seen him track down a bug in Transfusion at Kansas
|
|
last summer...
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
JWankerl out of the blue "Oh, you didn't do a setport"
|
|
JWankerl From god knows where inside the toolbox - code that didn't mean a
|
|
thing he
|
|
JWankerl exclaims this.
|
|
ShanoJ That's why he works for Apple and we don't, Joe... :)
|
|
Dave Lyons (Elementary, my dear JW...as soon as it crashed -inside
|
|
quickdraw-, that was an easy guess. :)
|
|
Dave Lyons I can do better than that, I found a bug at lunch just talking
|
|
about a guy's code...he didn't realize
|
|
Dave Lyons a handle had to be unlocked and non-fixed when grown with
|
|
SetHandleSize to be sure it will work.
|
|
Dave Lyons (Didn't even know there was a bug.... :)
|
|
Dave Lyons (Gee, I've bored everyone to death again. :(
|
|
A2Evanglst Dave Lyons, The "Black Flag" of Apple Computer... Kills Bugs Dead
|
|
;)
|
|
JWankerl So... anyone know any good IIGS references for AppleTalk *besides*
|
|
the
|
|
JWankerl Inside Appletalk and AppleShare PRogrammer's Guide for the Apple
|
|
II?
|
|
Matt DTS Joe: No, that pretty much covers it all. What more do you
|
|
need?
|
|
Nuzz Is the special price on CD drives still in effect?
|
|
Matt DTS Nuzz: Call the hotline and ask.
|
|
Dave Lyons (Yeah, call...I believe there's an ongoing special price for new
|
|
partners and associates, but beyond
|
|
Dave Lyons that I don't know.)
|
|
|
|
JWankerl I need something that tells me what to do!!!!!!!
|
|
JWankerl Both those books are cryptic.
|
|
Matt DTS They're not network primers. You might want "AppleTalk Network
|
|
System Overview" for a technical
|
|
Matt DTS introduction to the network. Developer University also has an
|
|
introductory AppleTalk class.
|
|
Dave Lyons ("It was hard to implement; it should be hard to use!" <--joke
|
|
:)
|
|
ShanoJ That's why there aren't any OTHER references, Joe... :)
|
|
Dave Lyons (BTW, this might make a good DTS sample some year: real live
|
|
working examples of all the calls.)
|
|
JWankerl Exactly. Go thru each protocol and give examples of what to do.
|
|
JWankerl Examples are really what I need.
|
|
Dave Lyons (Along with comments saying when & why you'd want to use each
|
|
call.)
|
|
Matt DTS Would you like French Fries with that?
|
|
JWankerl Yes, but not too much salt - it's bad for the heart.
|
|
Matt DTS (Dave is the same one who, every time I report a bug, says "fix
|
|
it" but thinks DTS exclusively gets
|
|
Matt DTS to write all the sample code.)
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
Dave Lyons I didn't say DTS had to write it; I said it would make a good DTS
|
|
sample. Anybody you can get to
|
|
Dave Lyons make time to do it, go for it.
|
|
Matt DTS You volunteering? :)
|
|
Dave Lyons (I am not volunteering at this time.)
|
|
|
|
AFA Gary J Well, I'm gonna go and see if I can get my program to crash :)
|
|
ShanoJ Gary...
|
|
AFA Gary J Yes, Jonah?
|
|
ShanoJ The idea of programming is to NOT make your programs crash....
|
|
:)
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
JWankerl Unless, of course, you're writing GSBug or something.
|
|
ShanoJ That might be what's slowing you down here....
|
|
AFA Gary J Yes, but I've had a particular bad time with the ORCA shell.
|
|
It's the problems
|
|
AFA Gary J that have "gone-away" that I used to have that worry me the most
|
|
:)
|
|
AFA Gary J All the problems have only occured (as far as I know... I do have
|
|
a few beta
|
|
AFA Gary J versions of my program sprinkled around) under the ORCA shell,
|
|
during
|
|
AFA Gary J development.
|
|
ShanoJ Well, then as long as you don't distribute the source you don't
|
|
have to worry
|
|
ShanoJ about it... :)
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
JWankerl Don't write for GS+, then.
|
|
Nuzz What does GS+ pay for programs?
|
|
JWankerl Nuzz: Depends on the program - no less than $50, I believe.
|
|
That's a low
|
|
JWankerl bottom end, though.
|
|
AFA Gary J Somehow, the most annoying problem (of having to COLD re-boot in
|
|
order to
|
|
AFA Gary J re-edit ANY source file after running my program) has gone
|
|
away.
|
|
AFA Gary J (The problem with the "Invalid Text Data")
|
|
ShanoJ Have you ever used MAX/Edit? Their choice of stealing a system
|
|
toolset was
|
|
ShanoJ REALLY stupid, because you have to boot with a system disk that
|
|
has that
|
|
ShanoJ toolset on it in order to get into the editor... :( For people
|
|
writing things
|
|
ShanoJ like Twilight that have boot parts that sometimes don't work,
|
|
meaning that you
|
|
ShanoJ have to boot from floppies instead of the HD, that can be REALLY
|
|
annoying. :(
|
|
JWankerl Man, it only takes 3 lines of code to use a user toolset and
|
|
install it. :-(
|
|
Matt DTS The author of MAX/Edit felt his stolen system toolset was "too
|
|
ingrained in the design" to change,
|
|
Matt DTS whatever that means.
|
|
AFA Gary J I've never tried that, Jonah. I actually like the ORCA editor
|
|
well enough.
|
|
AFA Gary J I'd just like it better if it could (1) edit more than one file
|
|
at a time - and
|
|
AFA Gary J (2) edit files larger than 64K.
|
|
ShanoJ Gary: Try MAX/Edit--except for a few little flaws, it's GREAT. I
|
|
couldn't
|
|
ShanoJ believe how wonderful it was until I tried it!
|
|
ShanoJ Matt: here's one time when I'm completely on your side: a system
|
|
toolset theft
|
|
ShanoJ was a BAD idea. :(
|
|
Matt DTS I use EdIt-16, now shipping from SSSi (got mine today).
|
|
Completely modifiable, up to 9 files
|
|
Matt DTS open at any time. EXE or S16, uses command line or message
|
|
parameters, every command is configurable.
|
|
ShanoJ Uggh... I have EdIt-16, but I didn't like it to much. I think
|
|
MAX/Edit is a
|
|
ShanoJ LOT better... (In fact, I installed EdIt-16 on MAX/Edit as a
|
|
Min/Shell
|
|
ShanoJ utility... :)
|
|
Matt DTS Only flaw is that it has 64K file limits. <sigh>
|
|
Matt DTS Jonah: "uggh" is not useful in software review discussions.
|
|
ShanoJ I think that SSSi should have done a little more work on
|
|
EdIt-16... One thing
|
|
ShanoJ that I really don't like is that you have to refer to language
|
|
types by auxType
|
|
ShanoJ rather than by name. _I_ sure never remember the auxTypes... :(
|
|
JWankerl LINKER is 265... I think.
|
|
Matt DTS Jonah: A good point, but building in a table of auxtypes requires
|
|
an update to add new ones.
|
|
ShanoJ Matt: MAX/Edit uses FTD files.... :)
|
|
AFA Gary J As to the 64k file limit, I could live with that (I don't think
|
|
source files
|
|
AFA Gary J should be bigger than that), BUT, there's always the one time
|
|
when you need to
|
|
AFA Gary J break down a large file that you've created/obtained from
|
|
someplace else that
|
|
AFA Gary J makes it all worthwhile.
|
|
ShanoJ Gary: Macgen can only handle 64K files, so you're right that
|
|
that's not too
|
|
ShanoJ useful.... :)
|
|
JWankerl Macgen - "Scanning opy can't be opened" or something like that.
|
|
Matt DTS MAX/Edit has a good interface in many cases, but for me the design
|
|
flaws are not worth messing up
|
|
Matt DTS my system for.
|
|
Matt DTS I don't want to crash in some other program because it used up all
|
|
the user IDs and wouldn't purge
|
|
Matt DTS memory when not in the editor.
|
|
ShanoJ Well, I think the preservation of workspaces around editor uses
|
|
AND the built
|
|
ShanoJ in shell can't be beat!
|
|
ShanoJ Then again, I EXPECT my system to crash regularly (and I'm not
|
|
disappointed...)
|
|
ShanoJ so I guess we come at it from different angles... :)
|
|
Matt DTS Well, to each his own. You probably use unreliable screen
|
|
dimmers, too.
|
|
ShanoJ Ya, that I do... In fact, I WRITE them and force them on others,
|
|
too... :)
|
|
ShanoJ And, truth be told, I DO do it all just to make Matt's life a
|
|
living hell... :)
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|