602 lines
28 KiB
Plaintext
602 lines
28 KiB
Plaintext
America Online
|
|
APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
|
|
Tuesday, February 12, 1991 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
|
|
Topic: Resource Programming
|
|
Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
|
|
|
|
|
|
ShanoJ <-- been programming since he got up this morning. Brain is
|
|
fried.
|
|
ShanoJ <-- Started using comments like "Now dispose of the shiny new
|
|
handle we just
|
|
ShanoJ allocated, so we won't start playing with it and get
|
|
distracted."
|
|
AFL Dyfet Just don't start using a 'naughty bit' flag :)
|
|
AFA Gary J I wish I could work on my programming project that many hours at
|
|
once :)
|
|
AFL Scott Resources, Resources everywhere.
|
|
AFA Gary J Natural Resources
|
|
AFL Dyfet I'm trying to perfect a financial resource genorator :)
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
AFA Gary J Anyone know where GSBug puts it's stack? (Like maybe $000100
|
|
area???)
|
|
ShanoJ According to NiftyList it only owns one block, and it's not in
|
|
bank $00...
|
|
A2GS It probably pulls everything off the stack (ex. return address,
|
|
etc...) when
|
|
A2GS it first becomes activated.
|
|
AFA Gary J I'll ask a question about it later. I guess my problem is when I
|
|
switch to
|
|
AFA Gary J emulation mode :)
|
|
Dave Lyons GSBug owns 1K in bank 0 while you're actually in GSBug; it keeps
|
|
the stack in that 1K some of
|
|
Dave Lyons the time, but it also uses a bit of "your" stack. It also doesn't
|
|
manage the $010100 byte right
|
|
AFA Gary J That's the problem :)
|
|
Dave Lyons when switching in and out of the page-1 stack, so if you're
|
|
tracing some code that has the stack
|
|
Dave Lyons in page 1, try typing 01/0100:80 first; this way interrupts will
|
|
use 100..180, and your program
|
|
Dave Lyons being traced can use 181..1FF.
|
|
AFA Gary J Ah, exactly as I've been doing. That seems to help :)
|
|
AFA Gary J (I just wanted to confirm my suspicions)
|
|
JWankerl Okay, I made it. We can start now. :-)
|
|
AFL Dyfet We wouldn't start without you :)
|
|
A2GS slowly but surely the room fills....
|
|
A2GS Complaint: My user group has been trying for weeks to get an Apple
|
|
Rep. here
|
|
A2GS in N.Y. to come and answer questions regarding the II and we
|
|
always seem to
|
|
A2GS get the same old lines "sorry, the people here only know about
|
|
macs"...
|
|
A2GS I even made a couple of calls to Cupertino and still hit a brick
|
|
wall...
|
|
A2GS does Apple call that support??? I few years ago we had no trouble
|
|
getting
|
|
A2GS someone to show.
|
|
Matt DTS You called the User Group Connection people?
|
|
A2GS yes...they told me to call customer support (1-800....)
|
|
Matt DTS Waitaminnit - "does Apple call it support" that people in
|
|
Cupertino are busy doing things other than
|
|
Matt DTS flying around talking to User Groups? Clearly, the problem is
|
|
that there should be someone in your
|
|
Matt DTS area qualified to talk about it. If not, your next best bet would
|
|
be Tim Swihart (TIM.SWIHART on
|
|
Matt DTS AppleLink).
|
|
A2GS Read EVERYTHING I wrote above....we use to be able to get people
|
|
right from
|
|
A2GS Apple's N.Y. offices to show up...now no one knows anything about
|
|
II's or at
|
|
A2GS least not enough to answer questions regarding them and Apple.
|
|
A2GS It's not that their aren't qualified people to answer technical
|
|
questions....
|
|
A2GS we are trying to get someone to answer questions regarding Apple's
|
|
policies,
|
|
A2GS etc... I assure you, we could easily have gotten someone from the
|
|
N.Y. offices
|
|
A2GS to talk about anything regarding Apple's Mac policies, etc....
|
|
Matt DTS Then you definitely need to talk to Tim Swihart. GA.
|
|
A2GS I will try...thanx
|
|
AFL Dyfet The NY offices may have been 'downsized'...there can be other
|
|
reasons for not
|
|
AFL Dyfet being able to get people for that, too :)....
|
|
A2GS They're available for Mac questions....
|
|
A2GS (how convenient)
|
|
AFA Gary J I have an idea. Let's talk about resources :)
|
|
AFL Dyfet Okay, I guess we will move to our scheduled topic for tonight:
|
|
Resources!
|
|
AFL Dyfet Does anyone have any resource related questions to start with for
|
|
tonight?
|
|
AFL DannyH yeah?
|
|
AFL DannyH how big can the resource fork be?
|
|
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Matt...
|
|
Matt DTS Depends. How big is your disk?
|
|
AFL DannyH really?
|
|
AFL DannyH no set upper limit?
|
|
Matt DTS (There is no GS/OS limitation to the size of a resource fork other
|
|
than that it must be less than
|
|
Matt DTS 4 gigabytes to the EOF. GA.)
|
|
AFL Dyfet Depends on your FST, and how large a legal file can grow (16m
|
|
under the ProDOS
|
|
AFL Dyfet FST)....
|
|
Matt DTS (But...oh, there's Dave to talk about the Resource Manager...)
|
|
AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
|
|
Dave Lyons Yup, and I believe the Resource Manager will happily let you use
|
|
the whole 4 gigs, too. ga
|
|
A2GS Never mind...Dyfet clarified the descrepency :-)
|
|
AFL DannyH I have noticed NDA's with empty resource forks...
|
|
AFL DannyH is this an oversight on the author's part or is the
|
|
AFL DannyH compiler automatically adding a resoource fork...
|
|
AFL DannyH in particular TML Pascal seems to do this
|
|
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Surak....
|
|
Surak TFF Well, resource forks aren't (as far as I know) required to have
|
|
anything in
|
|
Surak TFF them... So it's probably just the particular compiler...
|
|
AFL Dyfet In the case of TML Pascal, I would guess the compiler
|
|
automatically creates an
|
|
AFL Dyfet extended file, just in case it needs to put resources
|
|
in....incidently, the
|
|
AFL Dyfet TML Pascal source files have a resource fork attached...
|
|
ShanoJ (making them a bitch to load into normal word processors... :)
|
|
AFL Dyfet Okay, MDW has the next question...Go ahead....
|
|
MDW Flyer Is there any limit to what type of structure can be stored as a
|
|
resource?...
|
|
MDW Flyer and what has been found to be unsuitable data to be stored as a
|
|
resource?
|
|
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Dave...
|
|
Dave Lyons You can put whatever data you want into a resource, provided you
|
|
use a Resource Type in the
|
|
Dave Lyons range $0001 to $7FFF.
|
|
ShanoJ <-- Off to define an armadillo resource... :)
|
|
Dave Lyons I don't have anything
|
|
Dave Lyons very clever to say about what
|
|
Dave Lyons *shouldn't* be in a resource, except that you don't want
|
|
gazillions of *tiny* resources,
|
|
Dave Lyons because each one takes up 20 bytes in the Resource Map (which is
|
|
always in memory while your
|
|
Dave Lyons resource file is open), and each one takes up *another* 20 bytes
|
|
of overhead when you actually
|
|
Dave Lyons load it (for the "master pointer record" (the handle)). ga
|
|
AFL Dyfet Certainly configuration data you plan to update should NOT be
|
|
stored in the
|
|
AFL Dyfet resource fork, if your application plans to be ran from a file
|
|
server, since
|
|
AFL Dyfet all your users will then share the same configuration if they like
|
|
it or not :)
|
|
MDW Flyer Thanks, Dave. 8)
|
|
MDW Flyer Has the APW documentation been updated any for using Resources?
|
|
AFL Dyfet Okay :)...Go ahead Matt...
|
|
Matt DTS The tools that work with resources in the APW 1.1 Tools and
|
|
Interfaces certainly come with appropriate
|
|
Matt DTS documentation. The other parts of APW that don't deal with
|
|
resources haven't been changed, including
|
|
Matt DTS the documentation. GA.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Okay, any more comments?
|
|
AFL Dyfet I guess Danny has the next question...Go ahead, Danny, you have
|
|
the floor now.
|
|
AFL DannyH what advantage(s) does a programmer gain by using an extended
|
|
file?
|
|
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Matt...
|
|
Matt DTS For what?
|
|
AFL Dyfet :)
|
|
AFL DannyH Matt is that for me?
|
|
Matt DTS It's like asking "What advantages do I get for using memory" -
|
|
what do you want to do with it?
|
|
AFL DannyH that's what I am asking
|
|
Matt DTS Nononononononononono...
|
|
AFL DannyH why and when would a programmer choose to use
|
|
AFL DannyH an extended file?
|
|
Matt DTS An extended file is just a different kind of file - one that has a
|
|
resource fork. You use extended
|
|
Matt DTS files if you have resources, and you use normal files if you
|
|
don't. If you mean to ask "what are
|
|
Matt DTS the advantages of RESOURCES, that's a different animal. GA.
|
|
AFL Dyfet I assumed Danny meant the latter....GA MDW....
|
|
MDW Flyer SynthLab, or any program, might embed it's theme music as a
|
|
resource. A use.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Resources are a generic way to provide customizable applications.
|
|
They provide
|
|
AFL Dyfet a convient way to package sounds, pictures, and other useful data,
|
|
into a
|
|
AFL Dyfet single file that is part of the application, which can then be
|
|
copied or moved,
|
|
AFL Dyfet with all associated resources, as a single file....
|
|
AFL DannyH thanks ga
|
|
AFL Dyfet At least I think that was the response Danny was looking for
|
|
:)..GA Andy :)...
|
|
Andy Stein Very simple, stupid question: Can you make applications from
|
|
scratch with
|
|
Andy Stein Gensys?
|
|
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Matt...
|
|
Matt DTS Yes, but they're not interesting. You can make all the windows,
|
|
controls, menus and other structures
|
|
Matt DTS like that as you wish, but only you can write the code that does
|
|
something interesting when you choose
|
|
Matt DTS them. GA.
|
|
Andy Stein Thanks. GA
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
AFL Dyfet Okay, WankerL has the next question...Go ahead Wankerl....
|
|
JWankerl Is there a way to find out the host application's resource ID from
|
|
within a
|
|
JWankerl CDev?
|
|
ShanoJ (Hey, that sounds famaliar... :)
|
|
AFL Dyfet I think we had this question a few weeks ago :)..Go ahead
|
|
Matt...
|
|
Surak TFF (Yup... :)
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
Matt DTS I'm still thinking, but I believe the answer is "no". The
|
|
question is "why do you want to?"
|
|
JWankerl So Jonah can call DrawMenuBar for the application without it
|
|
causing a crash.
|
|
ShanoJ :)
|
|
Matt DTS Ah. No, I can't think of one - it would require the Resource
|
|
Manager to turn a GS/OS reference
|
|
Matt DTS number into a resource file number, and it currently won't do
|
|
that. GA.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Egads, that was sneaky :)...
|
|
JWankerl That's about it for me.... right now.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Okay who else has a resource related question for tonight?
|
|
MDW Flyer What is your combined opinion of the Resourse Editors available?
|
|
ShanoJ Genesys + LLRE + Rez rocks... :)
|
|
JWankerl Genesys, I think, is the best, but it still has a few
|
|
limitations.
|
|
AFL Dyfet I prefer Genesys....
|
|
JWankerl Genesys + Rez = everything you should ever need.
|
|
MDW Flyer I'm finished using the old TML Pascal Editor.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Well, okay, who else has a resource question for tonight :)?
|
|
AFL Dyfet Go ahead, Marty....
|
|
AFL Marty What kinds of resources are currently supported (resource
|
|
types)?
|
|
JWankerl Lots! Pick up Nifty List 3.0 or better and do 0\rtype to see 'em,
|
|
or get TBIII
|
|
JWankerl ...and read the technotes, there are additional types defined
|
|
there, too.
|
|
AFL Marty Let me ask it this way then...
|
|
AFL Dyfet And will be many more appearing in technotes in the future
|
|
:)....
|
|
ShanoJ READ TECHNOTES!! READ TECHNOTES!!
|
|
AFL Marty What resource types are NOT supported?
|
|
AFL Marty For instance is there/will there be a FONT resource?
|
|
JWankerl Good question. What cars are not defined? I don't know until
|
|
they're defined.
|
|
JWankerl Your application can support a font resource, but I don't think
|
|
there's a
|
|
JWankerl standard font resource.
|
|
AFL Marty I'm obviously not q programmer type. Make up a good question from
|
|
my words and answer it.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Or ICON resources for Finder....in the case of a font resource,
|
|
one may have to
|
|
AFL Dyfet work a little with the font manager to actually use it....
|
|
JWankerl There ARE Icon resources, but they don't contain the finder
|
|
information.
|
|
AFL Dyfet In the case of Finder icons in resources (something I would like
|
|
to see
|
|
AFL Dyfet someday) Apple will have to take the lead first...
|
|
AFL Dyfet GA MDW...
|
|
MDW Flyer The finder icon format differs from the Q II icon format....
|
|
MDW Flyer At least header information.
|
|
Dave Lyons (The Finder Icon format *contains* icons in QD II icon format,
|
|
plus a lot of other stuff.)
|
|
MDW Flyer Why put a Finder Icon in as resource?
|
|
AFL Dyfet So you have the icon as part of the application instead of as a
|
|
seperate icon
|
|
AFL Dyfet file that has to be placed in the icon directory...just seems a
|
|
little cleaner
|
|
AFL Dyfet in my mind...
|
|
JWankerl So you can copy the application and not have to copy the icon
|
|
file, too.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Go ahead Surak...
|
|
Surak TFF In order for an icon in a file's resource fork to be of use to the
|
|
Finder,
|
|
Surak TFF wouldn't the Finder have to open every single file's resource fork
|
|
to find
|
|
Surak TFF the icon? (or at least to check for one?) That would seem to be
|
|
very
|
|
Surak TFF cumbersome...
|
|
Matt DTS (well, presumably it would only look in applications, and not in
|
|
everything.)
|
|
AFL Dyfet I was about to mention that, actually :)...
|
|
MDW Flyer Matt, Tech Note ?
|
|
Surak TFF GA
|
|
Matt DTS (huh?)
|
|
Matt DTS repeating: "(huh?)"
|
|
MDW Flyer Finder Icons TN doesn't explicitly state the need for a small icon
|
|
image & mask
|
|
MDW Flyer or did I miss some part of it.
|
|
MDW Flyer I am writing a quick fix program to append the small icon info to
|
|
the output
|
|
Matt DTS Mine lists at offset +086 the normal size icon and right after it
|
|
the small icon.
|
|
JWankerl Anyone care to field a simple Memory Manager question?
|
|
Dave Lyons sure
|
|
Matt DTS go for it
|
|
AFL Dyfet Sure, we can do that :)
|
|
JWankerl I wanna use InsertMItem2 to add an item to my menu, and I want my
|
|
reference to
|
|
JWankerl the menu item name to be a handle. Do I have to maintain this
|
|
handle with
|
|
JWankerl my program, or does the menu manager take it over like the Window
|
|
manager does
|
|
JWankerl with menu titles?
|
|
JWankerl oops with window titles, not menu titles.
|
|
ShanoJ <-- 'nother MM question, for when Joe's done.
|
|
Dave Lyons (BTW, this is a Menu Manager question, not a Memory Manager
|
|
question. :-)
|
|
JWankerl Shoot! Did I say memory manager. My fault. My brain is dying.
|
|
:-(
|
|
Dave Lyons Checking; go ahead w/ next question in the mean time.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Okay, I guess that would be Jonah's MM Q :)...Whichever MM he
|
|
means :)
|
|
ShanoJ Do you still need an answer before I go, Joe?
|
|
AFL Dyfet Dave is checking...go ahead Jonah...
|
|
ShanoJ Or can I just rhyme some more? :)
|
|
JWankerl Nah, GA Jonah. Dave'll get back to me one day. :-)
|
|
ShanoJ Okay, I wanna know why the Memory Manager needs BOTH a fixed and a
|
|
locked bit?
|
|
ShanoJ Don't they do basically the same thing?
|
|
Dave Lyons They're different. (1) Fixed memory gets allocated down at the
|
|
bottom of the memory map, and
|
|
Dave Lyons non-fixed gets allocated at the top. This reduces fragmentation,
|
|
unless people do something
|
|
Dave Lyons silly like allocate a lot of permanently-locked, non-fixed
|
|
handles.
|
|
Dave Lyons You can lock and unlock handles at will, but you don't generally
|
|
fiddle with the fixed status (there
|
|
Dave Lyons is no call for it).
|
|
Dave Lyons (2) When the purge level is not zero, the handle can be purged if
|
|
it is NOT LOCKED.
|
|
Dave Lyons That is, a fixed but purgable handle can go away but NOT move, if
|
|
it's locked. (If it's locked,
|
|
Dave Lyons it won't move or go away.) ga
|
|
ShanoJ Okay, so if I want a memory block that's not going to EVER move, I
|
|
wanna
|
|
ShanoJ use.... ? I've always used attrFixed+attrLocked...
|
|
Matt DTS Fixed means it *never* moves; locked means it can't move until you
|
|
unlock it.
|
|
Dave Lyons Jonah, if your handle will always have purge level 0, it makes no
|
|
different whether you make
|
|
Dave Lyons it fixed, or fixed+locked. You want to stay away from locked-only
|
|
if you're leaving it locked, since
|
|
Dave Lyons it would be a fragmentation island up amongst a lot of unlocked
|
|
handles.
|
|
Matt DTS (by the way, Dave's implication aside, it's not OK for you to
|
|
fiddle with any bits in the attributes
|
|
Matt DTS except the locked bit, unless you're using Memory Manager calls to
|
|
do it.)
|
|
ShanoJ I know Matt, I took that stuff out... You'd be proud of me... :)
|
|
Dave Lyons ! on Menu Manager
|
|
ShanoJ Okay, thanks a lot, guys! :)
|
|
AFL Dyfet GA Dave
|
|
Dave Lyons I know at least this much: When you InsertMItem2 by handle, it
|
|
*keeps* your handle, so you'd better
|
|
Dave Lyons not mess up the data or dispose of that handle.
|
|
JWankerl Okay. I call InsterMItem2 then never mess with that handle again.
|
|
Got it.
|
|
Dave Lyons (It seems not to be disposing of it when the menu goes away;
|
|
safest thing is to start up the tools
|
|
Dave Lyons with a $1xnn ID and do a DisposeAll on that derived ID when you're
|
|
quitting. Not
|
|
Dave Lyons a completely separate ID, but one derived from your main ID.)
|
|
ShanoJ (Is there any though of making a _CleanUpMyMemory call? Sure would
|
|
make things
|
|
ShanoJ a whole lot easier... :)
|
|
JWankerl Okay. I'll add in code like that, too.
|
|
ShanoJ (It could be part of the DWIM toolbox... :)
|
|
Dave Lyons What would CleanUpMyMemory do, other than DisposeAll on one or
|
|
more derived IDs?
|
|
ShanoJ It would DisposeHandle on all the stuff I don't need, and keep the
|
|
stuff I
|
|
ShanoJ do. Help a lot with error routines. (right, Matt? :)
|
|
Matt DTS No comment.
|
|
ShanoJ :)
|
|
ShanoJ Okay, I've got another ?
|
|
JWankerl What would happen if I changed the name of the item I inserted?
|
|
Would I have
|
|
JWankerl to use another handle? Or could I just keep the old handle and
|
|
change it
|
|
JWankerl instead, then call CalcMenuSize?
|
|
Matt DTS It would probably be best to pass the same handle to SetMItemName
|
|
again.
|
|
JWankerl I should use the same handle?
|
|
Matt DTS (unless the menu manager is disposing of the old one, which I kind
|
|
of doubt...)
|
|
Matt DTS Dave?
|
|
Matt DTS Oh Dave?
|
|
Dave Lyons Hi...
|
|
JWankerl Should I use the same handle, Dave?
|
|
Dave Lyons Yeah, cram the new stuff into the old handle. Sounds like a
|
|
plan.
|
|
Dave Lyons Of course, if it doesn't work, don't do it. (I think it will, and
|
|
I will -not- break things by
|
|
Dave Lyons making the Menu Mgr dispose of stuff it does not dispose of
|
|
now...that would be bad).
|
|
JWankerl Should I call SetMItemName with it, or just CalcMenuSize directly
|
|
since
|
|
JWankerl the reference is the same?
|
|
Dave Lyons You should call SetMItemName.
|
|
Matt DTS (Ha.)
|
|
JWankerl Okay.
|
|
Matt DTS <-- as if he's accomplished something
|
|
ShanoJ Okay, my turn. Anyone know how to do a bitwise EOR in a constant
|
|
in APW? The
|
|
ShanoJ Lichty and Eyes book said that #attrLocked.EOR.$FFFF would do it,
|
|
but that
|
|
ShanoJ just makes #0, which works for them, but that's only a
|
|
coincidence. It sure
|
|
JWankerl Do $FFFF-attrLocked
|
|
ShanoJ don't work when you need to keep the status of other bits... :(
|
|
ShanoJ Okay, does anyone know a CLEAN way to do a bitwise EOR... :)
|
|
JWankerl If you just want to flip bits, subtraction does the same thing.
|
|
Dave Lyons (Don't you have the manual?? I'd have to look it up....)
|
|
Matt DTS According to the APW manual (I have Dave's :), .EOR. should
|
|
work.
|
|
ShanoJ I looked it up. It was completely unclear. As far as I could tell,
|
|
it couldn't
|
|
ShanoJ do it, which really surprised me...
|
|
ShanoJ No, look again Matt. The manual says that it returns 1 for true
|
|
and 0 for
|
|
ShanoJ false. All of those .xxx. operators operate on the whole
|
|
expression, not on the
|
|
ShanoJ individual bits...
|
|
Matt DTS oh.
|
|
Dave Lyons I think there's a character for it, but I forget.
|
|
ShanoJ I was kinda surprised that L & E were wrong (and that I found the
|
|
error! :)
|
|
|
|
AFA Gary J I'm having trouble with the ORCA/M assembler barfing on the "&"
|
|
character in
|
|
AFA Gary J comments and within quotes. Is it supposed to do that?
|
|
Matt DTS It's a toss-up, but it does.
|
|
Matt DTS Something about being able to use &sysdate in comments, so it
|
|
always does that.
|
|
AFA Gary J Oh yeah, the sysdate thingy.
|
|
A2GS Don't take the following 2 Q's personally...1) Why can't the GS
|
|
upload
|
|
A2GS fonts to an Apple Laser-printer?
|
|
A2GS 2) Why doesn't GS/OS enjoy it's own FST...allowing the user to
|
|
take FULL
|
|
A2GS advantage of GS/OS' incredible potential and capabilities??
|
|
Dave Lyons Do you *really* want another file system in the world? I don't.
|
|
This is a fair question, and
|
|
Matt DTS Haven't we gone through #2 about forty bazillion times?
|
|
Dave Lyons the idea has certainly been considered around here.
|
|
Dave Lyons (Good answer, Matt. :)
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
Matt DTS Hey - "tact" is still my middle name.
|
|
AFL Marty "Prince of discretion"
|
|
A2GS To be honest...yes...I think this kind of FST really would make
|
|
the
|
|
A2GS GS more flexible (then it already is, hard to believe isn't it)
|
|
and would
|
|
A2GS allow users to get by the 32 meg partition pain with LARGE HD's.
|
|
Matt DTS Yes, but some already-existing file system (like HFS) for
|
|
example,
|
|
Matt DTS can give the same benefits without creating a new disk format
|
|
that's totally incompatible with
|
|
Matt DTS *EVERYTHING* else out there, eliminating any possibility of
|
|
interchange.
|
|
JWankerl Why wave the ability to do it under our nose and tell us that it
|
|
won't be done?
|
|
AFA Gary J Yes!
|
|
AFA Gary J The HFS would be a good one.
|
|
Matt DTS No one's arguing that something beyond ProDOS would be a Good
|
|
Thing. We just don't think that
|
|
Matt DTS creating something new from scratch is going to benefit
|
|
everyone.
|
|
A2GS The why don't we have an HFS Fst? (please don't take these as
|
|
pressure Q's
|
|
A2GS or that I'm trying to needle you guy's....you do FANTASTIC
|
|
work...)
|
|
A2GS I'm just curious.
|
|
Matt DTS Why haven't you written a program to produce class 3 PostScript
|
|
fonts on the IIgs?
|
|
Matt DTS (Probably because you, like us, have limited resources.)\
|
|
A2GS Because I don't ACTIVELY use laser printers...
|
|
A2GS although I'm sure a lot more people would...if we had many of the
|
|
features
|
|
A2GS other machines enjoy (who shall remain nameless)
|
|
Matt DTS As for #1, this is a subject that I've recently been
|
|
investigating. It turns out to be about 3000%
|
|
Matt DTS more complicated than I originally thought. Downloaded fonts can
|
|
be "coordinated" or "non-coordinated
|
|
Matt DTS ". Characters like "tm" and "(C)" and others aren't necessarily
|
|
in PostScript font strikes, so
|
|
Matt DTS the font vector tables in PostScript must be adjusted to pick the
|
|
Symbol font for those characters,
|
|
Matt DTS even though the styles may be different (serif vs. sans serif, for
|
|
instance). Then there is the issue
|
|
Matt DTS of renaming the downloaded font in the printer with the name
|
|
"|______fontname" so the printer drivers
|
|
Matt DTS can find it, as well as the issue of resolving font naming
|
|
conventions (such as "demi" vs. "bold",
|
|
Matt DTS "italic" vs. "oblique" vs. "slant", etc.) so that the proper font
|
|
can be found, downloaded and used
|
|
Matt DTS when the matching (and how does it match?) screen font is used in
|
|
a printed document.
|
|
Matt DTS (in summary, there's a lot of issues to be worked out and retain
|
|
compatibility with the Macintosh
|
|
Matt DTS which is already doing it.) <done>
|
|
A2GS Couldn't you use the Mac source as a "guide" on writing the proper
|
|
routines
|
|
A2GS to handle the work?
|
|
JWankerl So your program will be ready tomorrow, Matt? :-)
|
|
Matt DTS Sure, with an optional 68000 card.
|
|
Matt DTS Most of the necessary work is outlined in the "LaserWriter
|
|
Reference", actually, and of course we
|
|
Matt DTS could use the Mac's LaserWriter driver as a reference, but it's
|
|
still at least as complicated
|
|
Matt DTS as has briefly been mentioned here, and I'm sure I left out
|
|
several issues that would need to be
|
|
Matt DTS resolved.
|
|
A2GS To be honest: I would seriously consider getting a laser-printer
|
|
for my GS...
|
|
A2GS for several reasons...But I want to be able to use it to it's FULL
|
|
capacity
|
|
A2GS without having to get a Mac Classic to do the "little"
|
|
things....
|
|
A2GS Seems like you guys are under-staffed.
|
|
A2GS Thanx for the responses.
|
|
Matt DTS It's not as simple as sending a PostScript file - we can do that.
|
|
It involves a lot of PostScript
|
|
Matt DTS mechanics as well as considerable design on the IIgs or I'm sure
|
|
it would have been done by now.
|
|
Matt DTS We did get enough of it done to let you use fonts which have
|
|
already been downloaded, but not as far
|
|
Matt DTS as coordinating the fonts and downloading them. The Mac uses a
|
|
demonic posession called the FOND
|
|
Matt DTS resource to keep all this straight, and it's a resource straight
|
|
from hell. Trust me.
|
|
Matt DTS Next?
|
|
A2GS Sounds like the REAL headache is in coordinating the Font's not
|
|
just getting
|
|
A2GS them to the Laser printer (would you be uploading to the LP or
|
|
Downloading?)
|
|
A2GS done
|
|
Matt DTS We refer to it as downloading.
|
|
A2GS isn't that backwards?
|
|
A2GS sort of?
|
|
Dave Lyons (It depends on whether your computer has more or less RAM than the
|
|
printer. :-)
|
|
A2GS (I'm a perfectionist :-)
|
|
A2GS That's why I bought a GS... :-)
|
|
Matt DTS By the way, A2, I now have a LaserWriter (Personal NT) at home,
|
|
hence the interest. I also have a Mac
|
|
Matt DTS to download fonts with, but it's more fun to do it natively (or so
|
|
I thought!).
|
|
A2GS Keep working at it...I can guarentee Apple one more Laser Printer
|
|
sale if you
|
|
A2GS can get the dang thing working :-)
|
|
Matt DTS Yeah, you'll probably buy an HP and let those other drivers not
|
|
work instead of ours. :)
|
|
A2GS :)
|
|
ShanoJ Okay, question time. If I can't make TextEdit calls from within a
|
|
TextEdit hook
|
|
ShanoJ routine, do I have to step through the TE data structures MANUALLY
|
|
to retrieve
|
|
ShanoJ the text?! :(
|
|
Dave Lyons Which hook routine, what operation?
|
|
ShanoJ "Keystroke filtler procedure"
|
|
JWankerl Why do you want to get text for a keystroke filtLer?
|
|
JWankerl :-)
|
|
ShanoJ Okay, okay, I used one too many "l"s I'll leave one out of a word
|
|
in a minute
|
|
ShanoJ to make up for it. Just answer the question... :)
|
|
A2GS "a minute" doesn't contain any L's
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
A2GS I know, I know....it's a terrible joke...but I couldn't resist
|
|
:)
|
|
Matt DTS Why on God's Green Earth do you want to get the text from a record
|
|
in a keystroke fillllllter?
|
|
ShanoJ Hey, I said I'd leave it out of "a word", not "a minute".... Come
|
|
on... :)
|
|
AFA Gary J Well, you did.
|
|
ShanoJ Well, I wanna do some fancy stuff, mainly including an undo
|
|
command...
|
|
JWankerl Hey, you can't do an undo command before I do. :-)
|
|
Matt DTS (I was afraid you were going to say that. Darn...)
|
|
AFA Gary J (Not this again :)
|
|
ShanoJ Shut up. I'm cooler than you are. I wanna do it first... :)
|
|
Dave Lyons Matt, I believe some people have managed to do auto-tabbing inside
|
|
the key filter (but maybe it
|
|
Dave Lyons was a different hook).
|
|
Matt DTS Who? TML?
|
|
Matt DTS TML did it because they weren't using TaskMaster and watched
|
|
everything they passed to TEKey.
|
|
Dave Lyons I don't remember who (actually I don't remember for sure that they
|
|
got it working how they wanted).
|
|
JWankerl That's the way I was gunna handle my undo - just leave the pass
|
|
key events to
|
|
JWankerl controls bit off and call TEKey myself.
|
|
A2GS Suggestion: take up basket weaving and forget the whole thing
|
|
:-)
|
|
ShanoJ I've thought of that, Albert. Believe me, I've thought of that...
|
|
:)
|
|
Dave Lyons Why TEKey rather than SendEventToCtl?
|
|
JWankerl Good question. I dunno. I guess that would be better.
|
|
JWankerl (I could have said that I was not using TextEdit as a control, but
|
|
that'd be
|
|
JWankerl a lie :-)
|
|
Dave Lyons I think so, especially if you'll ever have other controls in your
|
|
window--it'll figure out who
|
|
Dave Lyons to give it to (and who to give first shot at it).
|