323 lines
14 KiB
Plaintext
323 lines
14 KiB
Plaintext
America Online
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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September 19, 1989 10:00 pm eastern time
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Topic: Programming Shells and Utilities
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Forum Leader: Gary Jacobson (AFA Gary J)
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AFA Gary J Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum.
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AFA Gary J Tonight's topic is Programming Shells and Utilities.
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AFA Gary J We'll be using forum protocol, starting ** NOW ***, so if you
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have
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AFA Gary J a question, type a "?" on a line by itself, or if you have a
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comment on
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AFA Gary J the current topic, type a "!" on a line by itself. I'll keep
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track of the
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AFA Gary J question queue and call on you when it's your turn.
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AFA Gary J Does anyone have any question to open up with this evening?
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AFA Gary J (questions)
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AFA Gary J GA, GET
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AFA Gary J (GA = Go Ahead)
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GET1 When will APDA have the information we need to program under GSOS
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system 5.0?
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AFA Gary J GA, Dave
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Dave Lyons As of yesterday (as I posted a few minutes ago in Let's Discuss,
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under the
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Dave Lyons toolbox folder), APDA has "Apple IIgs Toolbox Reference, Volume 3
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(Beta
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Dave Lyons draft)", part number A0229LL/A. I don't have the price handy, and
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I haven't
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Dave Lyons called them first-hand to verify this (but Hey...I work for Apple,
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and second-
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Dave Lyons hand info is Good where I get it!). If I understood correctly,
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it's actually
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Dave Lyons shipping. ga
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GET1 I'm having trouble now. Programs that assembled/compiled fine
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under System 4.0
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AFA Gary J So, it will probably be available at AppleFest?
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GET1 give me a "NOT ENOUGH ZERO PAGE MEMORY ERROR" under system 5.0
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Dave Lyons _At_ AppleFest? Don't know...in the past, APDA has usually not
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been actually
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Dave Lyons selling products at 'fest.
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Dave Lyons GET1, how much bank-0 space does your program try to allocate?
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GET1 Just enough for the Toolbox calls as indicated by the reference
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manual $800
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AFA Gary J (That's right, it was Tech Alliance last year)
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Dave Lyons There should be no problem...OS bank-0 requirements have not gone
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up by more
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Dave Lyons than about 1K or so (some drivers request bank-0 space these
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days). Try
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Dave Lyons looking at memory usage using either Memory Peeker (in ROM; ask if
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you need
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Dave Lyons details), Nifty List (a Shareware CDA available here online),
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Memory Mangler,
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Dave Lyons etc., and see what's taking up all that memory. ga
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GET1 The problem occurs most often when running under the ORCA desktop.
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I don't know
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GET1 how much that is using
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Dave Lyons How much RAM is in your machine?
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GET1 of zero page memory that is!
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Dave Lyons (If you're *really* tight for memory, stuff that doesn't *have* to
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be in
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Dave Lyons bank 0 will be put there.)
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GET1 I have 1.25 meg right now. I'm going up to three meg as soon as my
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AE card
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GET1 arrives
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Dave Lyons I suspect you really *are* running out of memory,
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Dave Lyons and stuff that would normally not be in bank 0 is there taking up
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the rest
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Dave Lyons of the space. ga
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AFA Gary J Anything else, GET?
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GET1 I am also having some problems with file access on my hard drive
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under 5.0
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Dave Lyons (Please clarify "file access")
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GET1 Does anyone know of a good utility SCSI diagnostics? I'm using a
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RODIME 60
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GET1 Plus with an APPLE SCSI card (REV C ROMS).
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GET1 I'm getting BAD file notices on files that are good. And the
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system hangs when
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AFA Gary J What kind of file access problems, GET?
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Dave Lyons (What's a "BAD file notice"? Error number?)
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GET1 I put a 3.5 inch disk in the drives and open it on the desktop.
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Dave Lyons For the 3.5 problem, try getting rid of any ICONS folder on that
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3.5" disk,
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GET1 It gives an error #5 when it doesn't just hang. The verify and
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validate checks
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GET1 come out ok!?
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Dave Lyons and see if that helps. (If the icon files are bad, the Finder
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could hang
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Dave Lyons trying to read them.)
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GET1 I'll try that.
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Dave Lyons You get error #5 *when* (boot?); and what does it look like
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(sliding Apple,
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Dave Lyons dialog box in the Finder, etc)?
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GET1 I get the sliding APPLE sometimes. Sometimes I get a dialog box
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and sometimes
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GET1 nothing!
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AFA Gary J Perhaps you could post further info on this in the message boards
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and
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GET1 It's driving me nuts. I went back to GSOS 4.0 til I could locate
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the problem.
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Dave Lyons (System Software 4.0, which contains GS/OS 2.0. :-)
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AFA Gary J after you try the icon files, let us know what happens.
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AFA Gary J Ok.... let's move on to Coach's question. GA Coach.
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GET1 I will. Thanks. Let someone else talk
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Coach101 First a comment....
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Coach101 I called APDA at 8:00 this morning and the order girl did not
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know
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Coach101 of the recent release.... I will have the wife call tomorrow (I
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have
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Coach101 a 7:00 plane to catch)....
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Coach101 The question, with the new APW tools, there is LinkIIGS and the
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"standard"
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Coach101 LINKer. LinkIIGS is obviously new. Is the "standard" linker the
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old LINK
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Coach101 processor or is it also new? ga
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AFA Gary J GA, Dave
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Dave Lyons I don't know whether the standard linker was revised or not; I
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know who
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Dave Lyons does, though...leave a msg for A2Pro Tim (Tim Swihart).
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Dave Lyons ga
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AFA Gary J Right, you might ask
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AFA Gary J in the message boards, as Tim seems to be keeping up with the
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comments
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AFA Gary J about the new release quite regularly right now.
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Coach101 I will just catch Tim at Afest this weekend.... Just a curiosity
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? Done
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AFA Gary J Ok, thanks, Coach. Now on to Scott's question. GA Scott.
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AFL Scott What are some common mistakes people make when moving an assembly
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language program from APW to...
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AFL Scott MPW for use under MPW/IIGS?
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AFA Gary J That's a good one...:)
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AFA Gary J GA, Dave
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Dave Lyons Gee...what problems are you having? I've moved a couple of
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programs from
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Dave Lyons APW to MPW IIgs assembler--I started by using AsmCvtIIgs, and then
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I had to
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Dave Lyons move some IMPORT lines so they were inside PROCs (or something
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like that). I
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Dave Lyons also had to edit some string constants, since AsmCvtIIgs
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apparently saw
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Dave Lyons double quotes inside my single-quoted strings and decided to turn
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them
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Dave Lyons into single quotes "for me" (ack). Other than little things like
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that, it's
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Dave Lyons straightforward--I got a byte-for-byte identical load file on the
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big project
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Dave Lyons I moved. ga
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AFL Scott Stuff like Duplicate this, duplicate that... It AsmCvtIIgs pretty
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much mangled whatever structure I
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AFL Scott had. The program I moved is huge. I did one file at a time and
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tried to keep the distruction to a
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Dave Lyons Gee...I have to admit my big project was all a *single* START/END
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in APW, and
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Dave Lyons I made it all into one file before AsmCvtIIgs-ing it. Sounds like
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you're
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Dave Lyons having much more fun than I did....
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AFL Scott minimum, but right now, since the formatting was destroyed, I have
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something's that I don't know where
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFL Scott they belong, now.
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AFL Scott We all should have this much fun, Dave!:)
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AFA Gary J You should write a book on the subject when your done, Scott.
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:)
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AFA Gary J Anything else, Scott?
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Coach101 Yeah.... Having Fun The Apple Way :)
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AFL Scott Terror in Virgina, a new book by Scott Gentry.
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFL Scott I'm finished, I guess.
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AFA Gary J Ok
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AFA Gary J GA, Dave
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Dave Lyons Coach, were you armed with the part number when you checked with
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APDA
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Dave Lyons yesterday? I hope that helps. ga
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Coach101 Negative Dave.... I will use it (part number) in the morning....
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I found
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Coach101 with the APW tools that the part number helps... Anyone know what
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time the
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Coach101 APDA order numbers open? ga
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AFA Gary J The APDAlog says 8 to 5
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AFA Gary J Ok, Coach, let's go on to your question... GA
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AFL Scott (Hi Marty)
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Coach101 The APW tools docs suggested that DEREZing a resource was a good
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way
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Coach101 to learn the REZ structure so I tried it (no TB Vol II yet). I
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picked
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Coach101 on */SYSTEM/CDEVS/PRINTER and the system error file in APW.. The
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net
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Coach101 result was a "hex" style dump.. Do I need some option to get
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something
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Coach101 more illustrative out of DEREZ?
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AFA Gary J GA, Dave
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Dave Lyons The file you dumped consists mainly of a large CDevCode resource,
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so a hex
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Dave Lyons dump is about what you'd expect to get. If you try
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*:System:System.Setup:
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Dave Lyons Sys.Resources, you'll get slightly more interesting results. You
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won't find
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Dave Lyons nice examples of most of the defined resource types on the system
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disk,
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Dave Lyons though. ga
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AFA Gary J Anything else, Coach?
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Coach101 Thanks, I give it (and tB vol III) a try.. ga
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AFA Gary J Ok, GA with you question, JDavies.
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Coach101 done
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JDavies1 A couple of quick questions...First Dave what was the TB Ref order
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#?
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AFA Gary J GA, Dave
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Dave Lyons It's A0229LL/A (also posted someplace, but easier to repeat than
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to remember
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Dave Lyons where). ga
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JDavies1 Next where can you get Express and Rez edit?
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Dave Lyons Those are also shipping from
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Dave Lyons APDA, but I don't have the part # handy--I think Tim Swihart
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posted it
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Dave Lyons around here someplace, though (he's the product manager for it).
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ga
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Dave Lyons Oops!
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Dave Lyons That's Express, the Rez compiler, DeRez, etc--the package does
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*not*
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AFA Gary J Ooops?
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Dave Lyons include a resource *editor*. ga
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AFA Gary J (oh) :)
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AFA Gary J Ok, anything els, JDavies?
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JDavies1 lastly something i asked Dave before..Can you tell the
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JDavies1 computer through the address $c000 that a key was presses( but it
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really wasn't
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JDavies1 )?
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AFA Gary J GA, Dave
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Dave Lyons You can't do it straightforwardly, like by storing something into
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$C000, but
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Dave Lyons you can use the SendInfo command in the ADB toolset to tell the
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Keyboard
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Dave Lyons Microcontroller that a key was pressed (the key micro is the thing
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that
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Dave Lyons _supplies_ the values to the hardware when you read $C000, $C025
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(modifiers),
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Dave Lyons etc.). I'm not an expert at this technique myself, so you may
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want to post
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Dave Lyons a msg in the ADB folder of GS Toolbox for more info. gfa
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Dave Lyons (or even "ga")
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AFA Gary J GA, A2GS
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JDavies1 Thanks..done
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A2GS Forget it, Dave said it all :)
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Dave Lyons :)
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AFA Gary J Ok. Anything else, JDavies?
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JDavies1 nope
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AFA Gary J Ok...
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AFA Gary J Does someone know how much memory is required to run MPW?
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AFA Gary J GA, Dave
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Dave Lyons I run MPW 3.0 in a 1-meg partition (under MultiFinder) at work,
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and this
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Dave Lyons generally works very well. (I *occasionally* get an out-of-memory
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message and
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A2GS 2 Gigabytes with at least one optical drive :) Nope, don't know
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:-)
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Dave Lyons close some documents or something.) You probably would *not* be
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happy running
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Dave Lyons on a 1-meg machine, but 2 should be fine. (I like 5,
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personally.... :-) ga
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AFA Gary J Ok, just curious.
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Dave Lyons (Errr....4.)
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AFA Gary J (I need some more memory for my Mac, and needed to know just how
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much
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AFA Gary J I'd REALLY need :)
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AFA Gary J Ok, next question is from A2GS. GA
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A2GS Any fast way (say someplace in memory) where I can get a Random #,
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avoiding
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A2GS the RandomSeed and Random TB calls?
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AFA Gary J GA, GET
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GET1 I remember the old trick of peeking in memory location 75 for a
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"randome seed"
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GET1 but you can use the system clock to get a seed for your random #
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routine.
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AFA Gary J GA, Dave
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Dave Lyons You can check $C02E/$C02F (see Apple IIgs Technical Notes #39 and
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#40, I
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A2GS Thought of that, but how do you get direct access to the clock? I
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know you
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A2GS have to set a couple of softswitches is that all?
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Dave Lyons think) for the horizontal/vertical location currently being
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scanned on the Apple II display.
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AFA Gary J Ok, Coach has the next question:
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Coach101 Does Vol II of TB ref go into GS/OS changes for GS/OS 3.0?
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Coach101 II --> III
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AFA Gary J GA, Dave
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Dave Lyons Nope--TB Rev Vol 3 is only toolbox changes for System Software
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5.0. The
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Dave Lyons changes for GS/OS 3.0 will have to be addressed in a separate
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document. ga
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Coach101 Is that document underway for publication via APDA?
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Dave Lyons Sounds likely to me. :)
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Coach101 done
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AFA Gary J I have a utility type question for Dave, while he's here...
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Coach101 Dave's just tired :)
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AFA Gary J ..(an old favorite :) what (and when) is in the future for
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Nifty List?
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Dave Lyons "When is in the future for Nifty List?" Sounds hard to answer.
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:-)
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Dave Lyons Well...the "what" is all the stuff I've been saying I'm working on
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for a
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AFA Gary J :)
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Dave Lyons long time...I'm still working on it. I have a prototype that
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loads separate
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Dave Lyons modules, but they can't do much of anything yet. The Big Brother
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stuff is
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Dave Lyons still on, and I'm wishing I had it in a usable state more and more
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these
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Dave Lyons days.
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AFA Gary J That's the incentive to get it done :)
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Dave Lyons I wish I could roll out an awesome version at AppleFest, but it
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ain't done
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Dave Lyons yet.
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AFA Gary J Is it that close to being completed? Or just wishful
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thinking?
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AFA Gary J (I'm looking forward to it)
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Dave Lyons Did I imply it was close to being done? Sorry. :-) I *wish* it
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was close to
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Dave Lyons done. ga
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFA Gary J Ok. I hope to see it on a download board near me, sometime this
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Christmas :)
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