775 lines
30 KiB
Plaintext
775 lines
30 KiB
Plaintext
AppleLink
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERNCE LOG
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April 25, 1989 10:00 p.m. eastern time
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Topic: Apple II Programming Environments
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Special Guest: Tim Swihart
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Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
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AFL Dyfet Good evening and welcome to the Tuesday night Apple
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AFL Dyfet Development Forum Chat. Tonight's topic is Apple II Development
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Environments,
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AFL Dyfet and Tim Swihart is hear as our informal guest on this topic. Tim
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is
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Dave Lyons (I think Matt's asleep...not sure.)
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DaviesDoug (WAKE UP MATT!!!!)
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AFL Dyfet the Product Manager for APW over at Apple. We will be using
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PROTOCOL
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AFL Dyfet *WHIP* here tonight, starting now. This means that if you wish to
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ask
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AFL Dyfet a question, you must enter a '?' on a line by itself. If you wish
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to make
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AFL Dyfet a comment, you must enter a '!' on a line by itself. I will call
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you each
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AFL Dyfet in turn to speak. First, as some of you know, we will be giving
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away some
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AFL Dyfet connect time at the end of this chat (or around 10:00pm, whichever
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comes
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ShrinkIt ?
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GMorrison ?
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AFL Dyfet first) to some lucky participant out there chosen at random.
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Before we
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AFA Parik (Hi Willie)
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AFA Gary J Q = Andy, Gary M
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AFL Dyfet start with questions, I will give the floor over to Tim in case he
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wishes to
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AFL Dyfet make some introductory statement. GA Tim :)
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A2Pro Tim gee, my very own floor... :-)
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A2Pro Tim I'm Tim Swihart, and as Dave already pointed out, I work for Apple
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as the
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A2Pro Tim Product Manager for APW and MPW IIGS (our cross-developement
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suite).
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A2Pro Tim I've had this job for just over six months and it's been a VERY
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fast six months
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A2Pro Tim (to say the least).
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A2Pro Tim But enough about me, let's get to the REAL reason you're all
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here....
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A2Pro Tim Dev tools for the Apple II.
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A2Pro Tim Take it away, Dave.
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AFL Dyfet (not free connect time :)
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AFA Gary J :)
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A2Pro Tim :-)
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AFL Dyfet Well, our first question is from ShrinkIt. GA Andy.
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ShrinkIt Tim, Can you give us an description on what's being done to the
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current APW to
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AFA Gary J Q = ShrinkIt, GMorrison
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ShrinkIt enhance it's performance?
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ShrinkIt GA
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A2Pro Tim Not yet....
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AFA Parik ?
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ShrinkIt Ok, next...
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A2Pro Tim We're not quite ready to start telling the public what exactly
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we're putting
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A2Pro Tim into the new version.
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ShrinkIt Then, there *IS* a new version?
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A2Pro Tim Readers of my APDAlog article in the Spring (or was it Winter?)
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already
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A2Pro Tim know that we're revising that product.... GA
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ShrinkIt :) GA
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ShrinkIt (Winter..)
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AFL Dyfet I believe our next question is from GMorisson. GA GM.
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AFA Gary J Q = GMorrison, Parik
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GMorrison Ok...
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GMorrison I've seen a lot lately on the Mac moving to OOOps and today I saw
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an
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GMorrison announcemtn that the New Turbo Pascal (whatever) will have
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ooops...
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GMorrison Is there any chance it will "invade the GS environment? ga
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AFL Dyfet Anyone have comments on this?
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A2Pro Tim Hmmm, that's partially up to us and partially up to folks like
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Mike W. and TML
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A2Pro Tim Mike and Tom both sell lots of Pascal (the primary OOPS platform
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seems to be
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GMorrison Is there a "push" from Apple?
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A2Pro Tim Pascal these days)
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AFA Parik (ooops? sounds like a mistake... "I program in OOPS! I mean
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OOPS! What I..")
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A2Pro Tim Apple has a very strong backing for OOPS - I'm not sure how that
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applies to
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GMorrison object oriented programming I think
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A2Pro Tim the GS "today".
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A2Pro Tim (yes, OOPS = Object Oriented Programming)
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GMorrison Ok, thanks. Ga
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AFL Dyfet I know Oops tools are pushed in Macintosh Development :)...perhaps
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this will
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A2Pro Tim Our recently released MPW IIGS Pascal compiler is a port of the
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MPW Pascal...
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AFA Gary J Q = GMorrison, Parik
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AFL Dyfet change in the future of GS development as well. I believe our
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next question
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A2Pro Tim We currently don't support OOPS in the MPW IIGS version, but it is
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in the MPW
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A2Pro Tim once.
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AFL Dyfet is from Parik. GA Parik.
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A2Pro Tim (finished)
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AFA Parik Do you have any comments on any upcoming products at AppleFest,
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such as any
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A2Pro Tim er, "once = one"
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AFA Parik new interface files to possibly a new system disk? ;) ga
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A2Pro Tim ok, everybody sing in harmony....
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AFA Parik shucks
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AFL Marty ?
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A2Pro Tim :-)
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AFA Parik (was hoping you're drunk :)
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A2Pro Tim Never drink and type...
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A2Pro Tim you might short out a keyboard.
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AFL Dyfet I guess that would be a good post-applefest question :). I
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believe we now
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AFL Marty (use a straw :)
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AFA Gary J Q = Marty
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Dan Burton ?
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AFL Dyfet have a question from Marty. GA Marty.
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AFL Marty Can you shed any light on the nature of the bug(s) in...
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AFA Gary J Q = Marty, Dan
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AFL Marty the SCSI driver which Glen Bredon recently wrote a patch for?
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AFL Marty GA
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AFA Parik ?
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A2Pro Tim I've downloaded Glen's patch, but haven't had time to talk with
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the s/w gang
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A2Pro Tim about it. We've tried to get Glen to report it (and send us what
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it takes to
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A2Pro Tim duplicate it), but haven't had much luck yet. This one won't be
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easy....
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A2Pro Tim GA
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AFL Dyfet Perhaps our DTS people might wish to comment on this...I haven't
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been able
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AFL Marty (Done)
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AFL Dyfet to get much out of Glenn about it either :).
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Chaos 89 ?
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AFA Gary J Q = Dan, Parik, Chaos
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KEVIN95 ?
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AFL Dyfet Okay...our next question is from Dan. GA Dan.
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Dan Burton The assembler hangs on me occationaly. To prevent this I changed
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it so that it
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Dan Burton reloads the assembler every time. Is this being fixed? ...
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AFA Gary J Q = Dan, Parik, Chaos, Kevin
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Dan Burton also it seems that the linker causes programs that are run
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A2Pro Tim My assembler is restartable. Have you reported this as a bug?
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Dan Burton after a link to crash. Any info?
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A2Pro Tim Also, have you double-checked that nothing else is walking all
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over your
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A2Pro Tim memory?
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AE PhilM !
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A2Pro Tim GA Phil...
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Dan Burton All I'm doing is assembleing several segments in a row.
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AFL Dyfet GA Phil
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A2Pro Tim (he wrote part of the product....) :-)
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AE PhilM The Linker and Assembler and Editor all are restartable and have
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checksum rou
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AE PhilM tines to prevent indicate if memory stomped on them
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AFA Gary J Q = Dan (AE PhilM), Parik, Chaos, Kevin
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AE PhilM Doesn't sound like memory problem to me.
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Dan Burton I have 4 meg in my machine and no DAs are running just strait
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assembles
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A2Pro Tim How much RAM do you have (total) & how many desk accessories?
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A2Pro Tim (never mind...) :-)
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AFL Dyfet I've not had any similar problems myself. Don;t know what to
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suggest...
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DaviesDoug !
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AFA Parik !
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AFL Dyfet GA Davies...
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AE PhilM Dan - are you using APW or Orca? Which version?
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DaviesDoug I've had ORCA/APW crash quite often as dan has
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AFA Gary J Q = Dan (Doug, Parik), Parik, Chaos, Kevin
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DaviesDoug we use orca phil
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AE PhilM The latest version of Orca has some problems--Contact Mike at
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BW.
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Dan Burton I am assembleing a LARGE program and setting Assembler to not
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restart fixes the
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Dan Burton problem
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DaviesDoug mike doesn't like us anymore
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DaviesDoug here at wordperfect
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AFL Dyfet :)
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DaviesDoug never talks to us
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AFA Gary J :X
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AE PhilM I encounterd simular problems and got a working version from
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them.
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DaviesDoug phil, dan is my boss, he works here to
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DaviesDoug yah but mikes your bud
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DaviesDoug .done.
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AFA Gary J Q = Dan (Parik), Parik, Chaos, Kevin
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AE PhilM What can I say :) (done)
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A2Pro Tim There is a v1.1b of the ORCA shell that fixes some hangs...
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Dan Burton .done.
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A2Pro Tim (done)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, next comment is from Parik...
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AFA Parik I've had the same problems, I asml a program, find bug, re-asml
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only ONE part
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AFA Parik of the program (uses NAMES=(____)) options and it crashes. Got
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fix from Mike
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Dan Burton !
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AFA Parik and works well. Question: How does one debug a program using APW
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Debugger
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AFA Parik if it uses the text output, WITHOUT i/o redirection (for screen
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positioning) ga
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Dan Burton Sounds like same problem I guess we need to get the next
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version.
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AFL Dyfet You snuck a question in there, Parik :). GA Dan, or was that your
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comment?
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Dan Burton I'm done
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AFA Gary J Q = Parik, Chaos, Kevin
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AFA Parik :P I was next in queue
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DaviesDoug !
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A2Pro Tim Parik - I haven't used the "APW debugger" for some time now....
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A2Pro Tim Instead, I've been using its replacement... :-)
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AFL Dyfet Strangly enough the next question was from Parik anyway :) GA
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Doug.
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DaviesDoug don't ya just type OFF to see the text screen?!
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AFA Parik I haven't. :)
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A2Pro Tim (have you tried DaviesDoug's idea?) :-)
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AFA Parik No, heh, guess I will. :) ga
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DaviesDoug whats the replacement? and it's doug davies
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AFL Marty *simple.. just write perfect code :)
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A2Pro Tim (sorry 'bout that Doug - _I_ didn't type your screen name
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backwards... :-)
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AFA Gary J Q = Parik, Chaos, Kevin
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AFL Dyfet I believe we (still?) are on Parik's question :)
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AFA Parik !@#$%^&*()done)(**&^%$#@!
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DaviesDoug what's the replacement for the debugger tim?
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AFA Parik (although I see someone discussing UN-ANNOUNCED PRODUCTS!! hmm.
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shame! :)
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A2Pro Tim (aren't we on Chaos's question?) :-)
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AFL Dyfet NiftyList? :) I believe our next question is from Chaos. GA
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Chaos. (you are
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AFL Dyfet right Tim!) :)
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AFA Gary J Q = Chaos, Kevin
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Chaos 89 Do you know of any good references on file management or database
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programing
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Coach101 Tricky move Tim :)
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Chaos 89 for the IIGS and GSOS?
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A2Pro Tim no, 'fraid not...
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A2Pro Tim The last database book I had was on how to write database routines
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in
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A2Pro Tim IBM (ugh) basic (years ago...)
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Chaos 89 I'm looking for one in 65816 for starters.
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AFL Dyfet A reminder...we will be picking the lucky winner in about 20-25
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mins :).
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DaviesDoug (we already did, tim :) , thanks)
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AFL Dyfet Anyone else have a favorite book to recommend?
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AFA Parik !
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A2Pro Tim (is Doug still in the queue somewhere about the replacement for
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APW Debugger?)
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Coach101 !
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A2Pro Tim (he asks gracefully)
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AFL Dyfet GA Parik.
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AFA Parik Check through OLD AppleSoft books. Many of them did contain
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Database programs
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AFA Gary J Q = Chaos (Parik), Kevin
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AFA Parik so you can fool around with that (one I remember is with a Apple
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across a
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AFA Parik rainbow and it looks really pretty, 1982 or so :)
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AFA Parik ga
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AFA Gary J Q = Chaos (Coach), Kevin
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AFL Dyfet Okay...GA Coach.
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Coach101 Chaos, I would concentrate on finding a good book on data
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structures
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Coach101 and then apply the algorithms to whatever language you are using
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Coach101 on the II-GS. As far as algorithms go, the series from Knuth is
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hard
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Coach101 to beat (and understand at times). Personally, I learned what
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I
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Coach101 know by reading the code of existing systems.... Then I know it
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Coach101 works in both theory and practice!! ga
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Chaos 89 Thanks. (done)
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AFA Gary J Q = Chaos, Kevin, Doug
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AFL Dyfet I've read about your file manager, coach...hope to be seeing that
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goodie
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AFL Dyfet soon :). I believe the next question is from Kevin (meant record
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manager),
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DaviesDoug (I didn't ask a question)
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AFL Dyfet GA Kevin.
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KEVIN95 Is it possible to write a program to play multitrack music on the
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IIe?
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AFL Dyfet Yes you did, Doug :)...
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFL Dyfet Any comments on this?
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A2Pro Tim I've never tried to write multitrack music - you're outta my area
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of knowledge
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A2Pro Tim on that one. SORRY! :-(
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DaviesDoug (oh yea, I remember now!)
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AFA Gary J heheh
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AFL Dyfet I haven't had any experiance in that area either, Kevin. I
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believe our next
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AE PhilM !
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AFL Dyfet comment is from Phil. GA Phil.
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AFA Gary J Q = Kevin (Phil), Doug
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AE PhilM Are you talking about MIDI?? Phasor/Mockinboard sound?? or just
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the II
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AE PhilM GA
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KEVIN95 Either MIDI or just the IIe but not sound digitizing
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AE PhilM Master Tracks Pro for the IIE is a real good program for that.
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Not real easy
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AE PhilM to write though.
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AE PhilM Applied Engineerings Phasor is not bad also. (done)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, thank you Phil. Are there any more comments?
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I believe our next question is from Doug. Do you remember
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it? :) GA
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AFL Dyfet Doug.
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DaviesDoug What replacement for the IIGS Debugger, Tim? (hehehe, as he asks
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innocently)
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A2Pro Tim :-)
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A2Pro Tim I'm glad you asked....
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFL Dyfet :)
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AFA Gary J Q = Doug
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AE PhilM :)
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Coach101 :)
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DaviesDoug :)
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A2Pro Tim It just so happens that I recieved my Spring 1989 APDAlog in the
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mail yesterday
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A2Pro Tim (did yours come yet?)
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AE PhilM Got the feeling we all know something you dont??
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A2Pro Tim and on page C-12 is this "NEW" blob that really tends to catch the
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eye of the
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Coach101 &*(^&*%*
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AFA Gary J (mine didn't)
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A2Pro Tim reader...
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A2Pro Tim Next to it is a headline which reads: GSBug and Debugging Tools
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v.4.0B1
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DaviesDoug imagine that
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A2Pro Tim This baby is the the "APW Debugger" what GS/OS was to P16 (far,
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far, far better
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AE PhilM Gee and I thought Apple was giving up the "Closed Lip Policy"
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Coach101 ?
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A2Pro Tim (Phil - I dunno - we're not supposed to talk about the Closed Lip
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Policy)
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A2Pro Tim :-)
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DaviesDoug Can't wait to get mine, maybe tommorrow
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Bud Gehr LOL
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A2Pro Tim Doug - does that answer your question? :-)
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AE PhilM Pssst - OK not a word.
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AFL Dyfet Read my closed lips
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DaviesDoug yep....can you tell us anymore about it? :)
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AFA Gary J Any details on what it does?
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A2Pro Tim It a new debugger that's geared towards GS/OS....
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Coach101 Anything else in this _hypothetical_ spring APDA?
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AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Tim), Coach
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AFL Dyfet Yeah, some of us don't have that efficient a post awful...
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AFL Dyfet :)
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A2Pro Tim let's see - the description says things like:
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A2Pro Tim save a trace history to a file on disk...
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A2Pro Tim define and use memory protection windows
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DaviesDoug what would be really neat is to be able to go into the debugger at
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any time....
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Chaos 89 !
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DaviesDoug and start tracing from there :)
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A2Pro Tim view the debugger's master display (you have to see it to believe
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it)
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A2Pro Tim Doug - glad you mentioned that...
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A2Pro Tim :-)
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AFA Gary J hmmm!
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A2Pro Tim 'Cause this one's got that feature...
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AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Chaos), Coach
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AFL Dyfet Hmm...reminds me of my VAX debugger :) GA Chaos...then we'll
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switch back to
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AE PhilM Sold...I'll take three.
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AFL Dyfet more of this debugger :)
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Chaos 89 Is this a Beta version?
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A2Pro Tim you just hit some key sequence (which escapes me at the moment)
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and poof -
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A2Pro Tim there ya are.....
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DaviesDoug data structure template would be nice too
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Dave Lyons (Option + Apple-Ctrl-ESC)
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A2Pro Tim Chaos - yes, it's a beta version... V4.0B1
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AFA Gary J Does it use the "Nifty List" data file? :)
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A2Pro Tim (Yeah - what Dave said)
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A2Pro Tim No - only Nifty List does that... :-)
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Dave Lyons Nope, it doesn't know anything about Nifty List, and NL doesn't
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know about the debugger.
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AFA Gary J :)
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DaviesDoug will they ever meet? :)
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AFA Gary J Q = Doug, Coach
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A2Pro Tim but it does come with SEVERAL desk accessories - most of which are
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brand new...
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AFL Scott (Vax debugger..)
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TBGTender anyone meet M&M&M&M&M&M&M&M&M&M
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TBGTender ?
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A2Pro Tim There's a revision to the infamous Loader Dumper and Memory
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Mangler CDA's
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Chaos 89 Is there a price?
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AFA Gary J Q = Doug, Coach, TBGTender
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A2Pro Tim and there's a new one called "Scrambler"
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A2Pro Tim price = thirty bucks...
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DaviesDoug does it handle the (1,S),Y instructions properly now?
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A2Pro Tim Doug - <shrug> I'm not sure (Dave - do you know?)
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Bud Gehr $30 hummm...thats CHEAP!
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A2Pro Tim There's also a CDA version of the GS/Os exercisor in there...
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DaviesDoug scramler....sounds like it moves memory blocks....,
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DaviesDoug around or something like that :)
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A2Pro Tim (of course, the standard, "application" version of the GS/OS
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exercisor is
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A2Pro Tim there as well.
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A2Pro Tim )
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Dave Lyons I didn't know about any problems with (1,S),Y in the first place.
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Don't know.
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Dan Burton Doesn't anyone else besides WordPerfect programmers use (1,s),y?
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AFL Dyfet :)
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DaviesDoug we need a [1,S],Y for handles
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A2Pro Tim Doug - yep, Scrambler is just the thing to flush out those handles
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you
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A2Pro Tim didn't dereference properly...
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A2Pro Tim If you didn't lock your handles properly, Scrambler will let you
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know QUICKLY
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DaviesDoug hehe
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AFA Gary J Q = Doug, Coach
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Coach101 Available now????
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A2Pro Tim As the name implies, it "scrambles" memory...
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A2Pro Tim Coach - as soon as you get your Spring APDAlog (mine came
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yesterday), then
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A2Pro Tim call and find out...
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Doctor Why Just what you need to sort cards? :)
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Dave Lyons (It scrambles only parts of memory which could *potentially* be
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scrambled anyway, not ones that
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Dave Lyons you have locked down properly.)
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DaviesDoug whew
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AFL Dyfet Okay, do we have any more comments?
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AFL Dyfet Before moving on to Coach's question, it is time to announce the
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winner of
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AFA Parik mememe! hehe :)
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AFL Dyfet the extra two hours of connect time....and the winner is (unless
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proven
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A2Pro Tim Parik - you warming up to start singing??? "mimimimi" ... :-)
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AFL Dyfet inelligible...) Dan Burton! Would you like to step forward now
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so we can
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AFL Dyfet record that you can claim your prize?
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AFL Floyd <Shucks, I never win anything> :(
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AFA Parik ()()() Dan falalalala
|
|
ShrinkIt :(
|
|
ShrinkIt hee... :)
|
|
Dan Burton dan went home this is doug davies...his co-worker, he said I could
|
|
have....
|
|
Dan Burton it since....
|
|
AFA Gary J Yeah Dan!!
|
|
Dan Burton he gets free time here anyway
|
|
AFA Parik LOL Dan
|
|
Dan Burton cause he does stuff in AWP
|
|
AFA Parik Er, Doug :)
|
|
AFL Dyfet Argh...It seems hard to find someone without a free account around
|
|
here :)
|
|
AE PhilM LOL
|
|
AFA Parik Gimme $12 bucks instead. :)
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
A2Pro Tim Yeah, but who one the all-expense paid trip to Walla-walla
|
|
Washington???? :-)
|
|
Dan Burton well?
|
|
AFL Dyfet I'm afraid we will have to move to the next choice on the list
|
|
then...:)...
|
|
Bud Gehr Andy, what is the latest version of Shrinkit that you have
|
|
released?
|
|
A2Pro Tim c'mon snake eyes! Rol them dice...
|
|
A2Pro Tim :-)
|
|
ShrinkIt 2.01
|
|
A2Pro Tim er, Roll (missed an "l" in there)
|
|
AFL Dyfet And the winner is...(looking over list...suspense growing...Chaos
|
|
89!
|
|
Chaos 89 Thanks, I CAN USE IT.
|
|
AFL Cheryl what did Chaos win?? :)
|
|
Dan Burton boooo!!!
|
|
AFL Dyfet Please step formward Chaos...and hopefully you can use it!
|
|
ShrinkIt (Bud -- 2.01 is current... it's in the a2 telecom processing utils
|
|
area...)
|
|
AFL Cheryl Parik...shame on you!! :)
|
|
AFA Parik Scott started it! :)
|
|
AFL Floyd It's also in the Utilities Communications Processing Utilities
|
|
area. ;)
|
|
DaviesDoug booo!!!
|
|
AFL Floyd Those two areas are linked. :)
|
|
AFL Dyfet I take it your not an AppleLink employee or anything like that
|
|
:)
|
|
ShrinkIt (I wuz gonna say that.. 'specially since I'm between jobs... ;)
|
|
Chaos 89 No I'm not
|
|
Bud Gehr Thanks Andy!
|
|
AFA Gary J Great!
|
|
Bud Gehr Keep up the good work!
|
|
AFL Scott did not!!:)
|
|
AFL Dyfet Cheryl: Chaos just won himself 2 hours of connect time!
|
|
Congradulations,
|
|
DaviesDoug thanks a lot dan :(
|
|
ShrinkIt (but the whole description of where to find it wouldn't fit on one
|
|
line..sooo..
|
|
AFL Dyfet Chaos!
|
|
AFA Parik did too :P Don't feel bad Doug, just charge a extra 3 hours to
|
|
Dans account
|
|
Chaos 89 Thank you very much.
|
|
AppleLink AFA Parik rolled 0 0-sided dice:
|
|
Coach101 My ? was answered....
|
|
AFL Dyfet Now, *CRACK*, returning to PROTOCOL :), I believe our next
|
|
question is from
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = Coach (I think!)
|
|
AFL Dyfet TBG, as Coach's has been answered.
|
|
AFA Gary J Ok.
|
|
AFA Parik TBG is gone
|
|
ShrinkIt (we all just _luv_ whips, dave... :) hee..
|
|
AFA Gary J TBG left though.
|
|
Brin Londo ?
|
|
AFL Dyfet He is? Okay...GA Brin, your up now :)
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = Brin
|
|
Brin Londo Okay to ask strict ToolBox ?'s
|
|
AFL Dyfet Sure
|
|
A2Pro Tim sure, I can make up answers to those also...
|
|
A2Pro Tim :-)
|
|
Brin Londo Start QDII It grabs SHR screen will FindHandle(ptr(addrs)) let me
|
|
use?
|
|
Brin Londo If addrs is $E12000
|
|
AFL Dyfet Do you mean is that area locked?
|
|
Brin Londo yes
|
|
Brin Londo Hard to debug behind SHR screen.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Well, I don;t believe QD does anything by the handle. It just
|
|
knows where the
|
|
AFL Dyfet SHR screen is, and probably just locks that area for the sake of
|
|
memory
|
|
AFL Dyfet manager.
|
|
AFA Gary J (If you crash while in SHR mode, type CONTROL-T <Return>)
|
|
Brin Londo Ctrl-T? gets to text mode?
|
|
AFA Gary J Yes
|
|
AFL Dyfet Yes, from the monitor.
|
|
AFL Cheryl makes sense :)
|
|
AFA Gary J A monitor command.
|
|
Brin Londo Oh, yea It's amazing what you forget after reading 15 manuals. :)
|
|
|
|
AFL Dyfet Do we have any more questions or comments?
|
|
Coach101 ANy other goodies in the spring APDA log for II-GS types?
|
|
Brin Londo ?
|
|
A2Pro Tim hmmmmm
|
|
AFL Dyfet Okay, GA Brin.
|
|
Brin Londo Hints, (resounding hints on the software front), how about
|
|
hardware?
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = Brin
|
|
Brin Londo For AppleFest
|
|
A2Pro Tim huh?
|
|
Brin Londo They said YES. You heard it here first Folks!
|
|
AFL Dyfet eh?
|
|
AFL Cheryl you didn't hear anything, Brian....
|
|
AFA Gary J What?
|
|
Brin Londo I love to spread rumors...
|
|
AFL Cheryl oh...did you ask WHICH Afest???? :)
|
|
A2Pro Tim (he calls that a "yes"??? whooooeeee, sell him some swamp land
|
|
and a bridge!)
|
|
A2Pro Tim :-)
|
|
AFL Dyfet Don't quote me, I have non-descs to think about :)
|
|
Brin Londo Okay, see you in S.F.
|
|
AE PhilM ?
|
|
AFL Cheryl that's more like it :)
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = Phil
|
|
AFL Dyfet GA Phil.
|
|
AE PhilM How many folks tonight will be attending the Developers
|
|
Conference???
|
|
A2Pro Tim Me.
|
|
A2Pro Tim :-)
|
|
AFL Dyfet In Kansas?
|
|
AFL Cheryl I'd like to....how do I get in?? :)
|
|
AE PhilM No In Cupertino.
|
|
AFL Cheryl (back door??) :)
|
|
AFL Dyfet Oh.
|
|
A2Pro Tim San Jose actually...
|
|
A2Pro Tim :-)
|
|
Brin Londo Company pulled my plug on S.F. but will go to Kansas.
|
|
AE PhilM Close
|
|
AFL Dyfet What company, Brin?
|
|
Brin Londo MCE Inc./Lawrence Productions (educational software)
|
|
A2Pro Tim Phil - I'll be there everyday except Monday.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Oh by the way, I would like to thank Tim for being our patient
|
|
guest here
|
|
AFL Dyfet tonight and officially end protocol :).
|
|
A2Pro Tim <applause sign lights up>
|
|
AFL Cheryl hi Jer :)
|
|
Brin Londo Yeah Time. ][ ][ ][
|
|
AE PhilM Has Apple recieved a lot of A2 Attendees? Tim-or would you know.
|
|
A2Pro Tim <the crowd goes wild>
|
|
AlphaGraph hello
|
|
AFA Gary J ()()()()()() Thanks, Tim.
|
|
A2Pro Tim Phil - don't know...
|
|
Brin Londo Time = Tim
|
|
Coach101 Thanks Tim!
|
|
AE PhilM ()()()() Thanks for your time, Tim.
|
|
A2Pro Tim my pleasure... See ya again sometime.
|
|
A2Pro Tim If you're going to AFest, look me up. I'll be manning the booth
|
|
and I'll be
|
|
A2Pro Tim on a couple of the panels for conferences.
|
|
AFL Cheryl what booth, Tim?? (showing my ignorance) :)
|
|
A2Pro Tim Apple's. :-)
|
|
AE PhilM See ya there, and at the Developers Conference.
|
|
AFL Cheryl silly me :)
|
|
A2Pro Tim I'll be looking for ya Phil! Maybe we can grab Mike and go get
|
|
lunch one day.
|
|
A2Pro Tim :-)
|
|
AE PhilM Just like old times except you insetad of David.
|
|
A2Pro Tim :-)
|
|
AE PhilM How is Dave by the way, understand he got promoted several
|
|
times.
|
|
A2Pro Tim David is my boss's boss. :-)
|
|
AE PhilM Seemed like only a couple of year's ago he was regular folk.
|
|
Congrats to him.
|
|
A2Pro Tim I'll pass that on...
|
|
AFL Cheryl well, don't all shout at once :)
|
|
Bud Gehr ?
|
|
AFA Gary J Ok
|
|
AFL Dyfet Yes Bud?
|
|
Bud Gehr Phil whats the latest on the TWGS shipping?
|
|
Bud Gehr Any idea?
|
|
AE PhilM Lots o problems--we're trying real hard--shipped about 300more
|
|
today.
|
|
A2Pro Tim I'm heading out gang.... see y'all next time. Go check your
|
|
mail boxes for
|
|
A2Pro Tim your new APDAlogs. :-)
|
|
AE PhilM Bye Tim
|
|
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Tim. Thanks.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Gnight Tim :)
|
|
Bud Gehr I ordered one from CDA and am on their list of the of the first 40
|
|
they will
|
|
AFL Cheryl bye Tim :)
|
|
AFA Gary J (I'll meet the mailman tomorrow :)
|
|
A2Pro Tim :-)
|
|
Bud Gehr ship when they do get them in stock. I am REALLY anxious!
|
|
AE PhilM We are shipping them as fast as we can. Big, big backorder
|
|
though.
|
|
AE PhilM And the order keep comming.
|
|
AE PhilM Go to go make the TWGS (donught comercial)
|
|
AFA Gary J It is a product that is long overdue for the IIGS.
|
|
Bud Gehr NO doubt about that!
|
|
AFL Dyfet I'm sure the backorder is huge there :)
|
|
AFA Gary J It's obvious from the response.
|
|
AE PhilM It was a real tought one to make. Seems everything is getting
|
|
harder and harder
|
|
AE PhilM to do
|
|
AE PhilM You know technology expanding everyday. A real complicated
|
|
product.
|
|
AE PhilM If it's any consolation, It's difficult for AE employees to get
|
|
one themselves.
|
|
AE PhilM Only the software folks (myself included) are getting one to
|
|
increase productio
|
|
AE PhilM n
|
|
Bud Gehr Phil have you seen the mail on ATB that Herr Fixit left about the
|
|
the lack of
|
|
Bud Gehr spedd increase he has seen on a TWGS equipped GS?
|
|
AE PhilM No, tell me more...
|
|
AFL Dyfet Oh??
|
|
Bud Gehr I really find that hard to believe.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Very
|
|
AE PhilM I'm new to AL just got on a week ago. What is ATB??
|
|
Bud Gehr He basicly says that he did not think that window updates and such
|
|
were sped
|
|
AFL Cheryl Across the Boards...
|
|
AFL Cheryl a message base that linkss all the Apple // forums
|
|
Bud Gehr up much.
|
|
AFL Dyfet ATB is a shared message base between ALL the Apple II forums,
|
|
Phil.
|
|
AFL Cheryl and there's one for the Mac Forums, too :)
|
|
AFA Gary J Someone (I don't remember who) was trying to compare it with disk
|
|
I/O alone.
|
|
AFA Gary J It's in "Let's Discuss..." for all of the forums.
|
|
Bud Gehr Sorry I didn;t realize that Phil was unaware of the ATB.
|
|
AE PhilM Disk I/O is limited to 1MHz. Nothing we can do about it.
|
|
AE PhilM Not a fair test of CPU power.
|
|
AFA Gary J I know, but that was what this guy was comparing on. It wasn't a
|
|
fair test.
|
|
AE PhilM He should know what he is doing before he publicly displays
|
|
misleading info.
|
|
AE PhilM I'll check it out and download it for the folks at AE to see. I
|
|
really didn't
|
|
AE PhilM know.
|
|
Bud Gehr He highly endorsed the Ohio Cache card though!
|
|
AFA Gary J I haven't seen Herr Fixit's post, though.
|
|
AFA Gary J (At least I don't think I have)
|
|
AE PhilM That what the OKS was designed for...I/O speed increase. A
|
|
different product.
|
|
AFA Gary J How long ago did Herr Fixit make the post, Bud?
|
|
AE PhilM Totally different...not the same thing.
|
|
AE PhilM I too like the OKS card it is very nice...
|
|
Bud Gehr I'm not sure how long ago it was, I "think" it was in a TWGS
|
|
folder.
|
|
AE PhilM Overall you will see an average increase in speed of 2.2 times on
|
|
CPU based
|
|
AE PhilM tasks
|
|
Bud Gehr It should even make the fill routine I did for CheapPaint look
|
|
fast if it is...
|
|
AE PhilM It's a difference you will really notice after using one for a
|
|
while and then
|
|
Bud Gehr half as big an improvement on the GS as I have heard!
|
|
AE PhilM switching back to slow speed (2.6mhz)
|
|
AE PhilM You can try it now for comparison switch from (2.5) to (1) and see
|
|
the
|
|
AE PhilM difference.
|
|
AE PhilM Time the disk at 2.6 and 1 and there is little difference
|
|
AE PhilM Convince yourself--this is true.
|
|
AFA Gary J Try playing "Wings of Fury" at 7 Mhz. :)
|
|
Bud Gehr I am COMMITTED to getting a TWGS and have no doubts about it at
|
|
all Phil.
|
|
AE PhilM I'm not a sales person, but this is one product that speeks for
|
|
itself. I
|
|
Bud Gehr I just got a bit irked when Herr Fixit mentioned he so no real
|
|
screen update...
|
|
AE PhilM would recommend it even if I never heard of AE.
|
|
Bud Gehr improvements, which I really find hard to swallow.
|
|
AE PhilM I would also recommend the OKS card or Ramkeeper with lots of RAM
|
|
for I/O
|
|
Bud Gehr Herr Fixit is big into hardware sales here on ALPE BTW, I got an
|
|
Epic 2400...
|
|
AE PhilM speedup
|
|
Bud Gehr modem from him for $50 (reconditioned)
|
|
AE PhilM Not bad...not bad at all.
|
|
Bud Gehr and he continues to sell them here at that price.
|
|
AFA Gary J What could be "unconditioned" about a modem?
|
|
AE PhilM If it works, buy it.
|
|
Bud Gehr Returns he no doubt bought from Epic I would guess.
|
|
AFA Gary J Must be.
|
|
AE PhilM What happened to Epic. Anyone know??
|
|
Bud Gehr I had been using a Datalinker 1200.
|
|
AFL Cheryl I'd want to know why they had to be reconditioned...Epic modems
|
|
haven't been out that long!!
|
|
Bud Gehr As far as I know Epic is still in business, but they stopped
|
|
selling the Epic
|
|
AFL Cheryl As far as I know, they're still around...I have 2 Epic mini2400,
|
|
and one regular 2400 from them.
|
|
Bud Gehr classic 2400 and are now selling the Epic Classic II 2400.
|
|
AFA Gary J I "won" an Epic Mini 2400 at AppleFest SF last Sept. It works
|
|
great.
|
|
Bud Gehr BTW Phil does AE have an upgrade policy for the 1200?
|
|
Bud Gehr to the 2400 I mean.
|
|
AE PhilM Yes, but I don't know what it is--Call sales
|
|
Bud Gehr Ok. The Epic in my view is not as good as my datalinker as far as
|
|
acting..
|
|
Bud Gehr predictably with all software I have run it in. The Epic sometimes
|
|
refuses to
|
|
Bud Gehr dial with ALPE software.
|
|
AFL Cheryl that's funny...I had to swap my epic to a friend who's datalinker
|
|
was on the 'fritz'!!
|
|
AFL Cheryl Phil...what's the warrantee on the datalinker??
|
|
Bud Gehr at the local Apple dealer, I am not conviced that it is "that
|
|
much" faster or..
|
|
AE PhilM 5 Years just send it in..first call Tech Support for an RMA
|
|
number.
|
|
Bud Gehr better then my GS.
|
|
AFL Cheryl great...I just have to check that it is in fact 'dead'...but it's
|
|
not acknowledging the dial tone
|
|
AE PhilM Funny you should say that..I've got an SE at work and it seems a
|
|
little slow
|
|
AE PhilM compared to my TWGS GS.
|
|
AFL Cheryl on his GS..with ALink..
|
|
Bud Gehr Cheryl, my datalinker never acted weird at all in the year that I
|
|
have owned it
|
|
AFL Cheryl I set this friend up with ALink, configured his GS, etc...and got
|
|
him logged on...
|
|
Bud Gehr Phil I worked out with a IIcx and then the SE and both were not
|
|
really stunning
|
|
AFL Cheryl then he got sick, and didn't use the modem for about 4
|
|
months...last week he called me, he couldn't
|
|
AE PhilM Yes, but I don't know what it is--Call sales
|
|
AE PhilM I want a Mac SE!!!
|
|
AE PhilM How did you manage to pull that off.
|
|
Bud Gehr Ok. The Epic in my view is not as good as my datalinker as far as
|
|
acting..
|
|
Bud Gehr predictably with all software I have run it in. The Epic sometimes
|
|
refuses to
|
|
AFA Gary J I was VERY lucky. It was a local radio station contest.
|
|
Bud Gehr dial with ALPE software.
|
|
AFL Cheryl that's funny...I had to swap my epic to a friend who's datalinker
|
|
was on the 'fritz'!!
|
|
Bud Gehr I was seriously thinking of buying a Mac SE, but after using it
|
|
for a while...
|
|
AFL Cheryl Phil...what's the warrantee on the datalinker??
|
|
Bud Gehr at the local Apple dealer, I am not conviced that it is "that
|
|
much" faster or..
|
|
AE PhilM 5 Years just send it in..first call Tech Support for an RMA
|
|
number.
|
|
Bud Gehr better then my GS.
|