680 lines
27 KiB
Plaintext
680 lines
27 KiB
Plaintext
AppleLink
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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April 4, 1989 10:00 p.m. Eastern daylight time
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Topic: Pascal and C
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Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
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AFL Dyfet Ah. We have a worm, I see...
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Coach101 Now I know the difference between a virus and a worm!
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AFA Gary J Go ahead, make my day... :)
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AFL TimB What we need are compilers with whips and chains!
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DaviesDoug hi scott
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AFL TimB That ensure tight code!
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AFL Scott Howdy,Doug!
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AFL Scott Howdy, Tim!
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AFL TimB Hi Scott!
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Coach101 Now, now, machines are supposed to be fast enough to compensate
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for
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AFA Gary J Chains: That's only for old Applesoft programs.
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AFL Dyfet Welcome aboard one and all...we will give another minute for any
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late arrivals
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Coach101 sloppy quality code! So says a recent posting...
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AFL Dyfet and then get things started tonight...
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AFL TracyP How much do I have to know to keep up tonight, Dave?
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ProDude Hiya Scott!
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AFL TimB You'll know more than I do Tracy!!!!
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ProDude Tim!
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AFL TracyP <-- doubt it...:)
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AFA Gary J Hi Pro!
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ProDude Gary!!
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Brett18 Hello All...
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I see there are still a few in commings, so we will give
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another minute
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AFL TimB Pro!
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AFL Dyfet before formally starting...
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AFL Scott Howdy, Pro!
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AFL TimB White tie and tails?
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AFL Dyfet I don't recall seeing Matt out there, so perhaps this will be
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easier :)
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AFA Gary J Hi Dave L
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DaviesDoug Hi Dave
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Dave Lyons Howdy. What's da topic? (2 lazy to look)
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Coach101 Good evening Dave
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DaviesDoug pascal and c
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AFL Dyfet Tonight it's Pascal and C, Dave...
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DaviesDoug <- not too lazy to look it up
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AFL Dyfet We're just waiting to see that nobody else is about to appear,
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okay...
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Energy Hello. I'm only 10 so watch your language
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Dave Lyons Gude EEevuning....
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AFL Scott <---Reads Ftfl...
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ProDude <- knew it without looking it up
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AFL TimB <--- Doesn't read his own FTFL!
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AFL TimB <--- Hasn't received his online mag!
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AFL Dyfet Good evening and welcome to the Apple II development forum's
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weekly conference.
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AFL Dyfet The topic for tonight's event is 'Pascal and C'. We will be using
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protocol
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Energy What are you talking about?
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AFL Dyfet here starting NOW (THIS MEANS YOU, TIM :), which means if you wish
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to ask a
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AFL Dyfet question, please enter a '?' on a line by itself, and if you wish
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to make a
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AFL Dyfet comment about the last question asked, please enter a '!' on a
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line by itself.
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AFL Dyfet We will keep track of outstanding questions and call upon you to
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enter your
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AFL Dyfet comment in the order they were made.
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AFL Dyfet Now, are there any initial questions?
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DaviesDoug (what no Matt DTS tonight? :) )
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BruceK14 ?
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AFA Gary J Q = Bruce
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AFL Dyfet Okay, GA BruceK14...
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BruceK14 Do more people here use/prefer Pascal or C for use?
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DaviesDoug !
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Brett18 !
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AFL Dyfet GA Davies
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AFA Gary J Q = Bruce (Doug, Brett)
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DaviesDoug Pascal, or prefferably assembly, if I have a choice
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DaviesDoug .done.
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Brett18 I prefer 'C' over Pascal...
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ProDude !
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Dave Lyons !
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Coach101 !
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Larrycom ?
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AFA Gary J Q = Bruce (Brett, ProDude, Dave, Coach), Larry
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AFL Dyfet Okay, GA ProDude
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KEVIN95 what are the main applications of pascal and C
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ProDude I prefer Basic.
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ProDude GA
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Dave Lyons I'd prefer C if I had a nice fast compiler w/ type checking.
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AFL Dyfet Your next Dave
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KEVIN95 BASIC IS SLOW
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Dave Lyons For now I prefer Pascal for most projects; assembly for some.
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Dave Lyons ga
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AFA Gary J Q = Bruce (Dave, Coach), Larry, Kevin
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DaviesDoug (what, no parik here tonight?)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, Coach, your up...
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Coach101 My oreference is "C". I go to assembly where speed is paramount
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or
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Coach101 I need some special "calling/receiving" sequence for interface
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to
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Coach101 a toolbox or GS/OS purpose. GA
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AFL Dyfet I'll add that I prefer C myself as it is easier for porting code
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between
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AFL Dyfet different machines in C. There has been a lot less work in
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enforcing what
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AFL Dyfet a 'standard' Pascal should be, it seems...I believe Larrycom had
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the next
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BruceK14 ?
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Larrycom How does one get started on the apple in C? What software is
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needed?
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AFL Dyfet question.
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AFA Gary J Q = Larry, Kevin, Bruce
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Coach101 !
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AFL Dyfet A good question there. GA coach.
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Coach101 If you have a II-GS, get a "shell". Either APW ($100) or ORCA
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(less
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Coach101 but I do not recall the price). Then get a "C" compiler and
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library.
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Coach101 Apple is the only "C" compiler that I know of at the present.
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ByteWorks
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Dave Lyons !
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KEVIN95 ?
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Coach101 is about (I think) to release their "C" compiler. To get the
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Apple stuff
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Coach101 you need to join APDA (the application is here on AppleLink). If
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you
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AFA Gary J Q = Larry (Coach, Dave), Kevin, Bruce
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Coach101 are not using a II-GS, I do not know but perhaps Dave does. Dave
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will
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RussBlue ?
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Coach101 also correct any mistakes I made. GA
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AFL Dyfet Your question has been noted and will be next, Kevin. GA Dave.
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Dave Lyons The APDA phone number is 800-282-APDA. The info is
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AFA Gary J Q = Larry (Dave), Kevin, Bruce, RussBlue
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Dave Lyons also available in the Reference Library here on ALPE. I don't
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know of any
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Dave Lyons really decent C compilers for the pre-GS Apple IIs. ga
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DaviesDoug !
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AFL Dyfet I do recall Aztec C myself, but it was heavy on overhead for a
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48K
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AFL Dyfet environment. GA Davies.
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DaviesDoug Aztec C was too big for the IIe
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DaviesDoug not very usable
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DaviesDoug .done.
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AFL Dyfet Any more comments on this?
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AFL Dyfet Okay, Kevin, I guess we are up to your question. GA Kevin.
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KEVIN95 WHAT ARE THE MAIN APPLICATIONS FOR C AND PASCAL AND HOW MUCH
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MEMORY IS NEEDED
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KEVIN95 FOR C
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AFA Gary J Q = Kevin, Bruce, RussBlue
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Dave Lyons !
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave (I knew it would be you :)
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Dave Lyons (Please type in mixed-case letters--it'll be easier to read.) To
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use APW C
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Dave Lyons you need 1.25 megs of RAM in your GS (1280K: a 1-meg memory card
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in addition
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Dave Lyons to the 256K already on the main board). Pascal and C are general
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programming
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Dave Lyons languages: you can write dang near anything you want in them.
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ga
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AFA Gary J Q = Kevin (Dave), Bruce, RussBlue
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RICH117 ?
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KEVIN95 is C slower or faster than BASIC
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Brett18 !
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Doc RJA OA-H
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AFL Dyfet Fair question Kevin. I will give you the floor for it...
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AFA Gary J Q = Kevin (Brett), Bruce, RussBlue, Rich
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AFL Dyfet GA Brett
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Brett18 C is much faster then basic, for one considering it is a compiled
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language,
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ProDude !
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Dave Lyons !
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Brett18 and not a interpreted language, C is also more of a mid-level
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language, rather
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Brett18 then a high-level language, resulting in closer to Machine
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Language code, which
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AFA Gary J Q = Kevin (Brett, ProDude, Dave), Bruce, RussBlue, Rich
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Brett18 in turn, runs at a much faster rate...
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AFL Dyfet GA ProDude
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ProDude It seems to me that the answer to that question would depend
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somewhat...
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ProDude on whose Basic your using. There are several Basics that are
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compiled...
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ProDude two of them for the GS specifically. GA
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave....
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Dave Lyons I was just going to point out that BASICs can be compiled, too.
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Speed
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Dave Lyons comparisons can probably be done only with respect to particular
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ProDude !
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Dave Lyons implementations--you can't really compare the languages
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themselves. The big
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Dave Lyons er...ONE big advantage of C and Pascal over BASIC
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Dave Lyons is that you get decent data structures & can build them up to any
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complexity
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Dave Lyons needed. ga
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ProDude (-!)
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AFL Dyfet GA ProDude
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AFA Gary J Q = Kevin (ProDude), Bruce, RussBlue, Rich
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ProDude pass
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AFL Dyfet Oh, okay. I guess then we can move on to the next question from
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Bruce
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BruceK14 Can anyone give PRACITCAL feedback reguarding existing (or beta) C
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compilers/
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BruceK14 environments as well as which ones should be avoidede?
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DaviesDoug !
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Coach101 !
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AFL Dyfet GO ahead Davies (I wish Mike Westerfield were here :)
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DaviesDoug I played with the one provided for APW once, seemed a lot of
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things weren't...
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DaviesDoug definde........and it's doug, DAVE
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DaviesDoug (It's Matt, yah)
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AFA Gary J Q = Bruce (Coach), RussBlue, Rich
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AFL Dyfet Okay. My appologies...Go ahead Coach...
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Coach101 I use the APW "C" system and would describe it as basically
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solid.
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Coach101 I have found a few strange anomalies but not many. Those that I
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Coach101 have encountered are written up in the "C" area of this (ADV)
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forum.
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NIGHT1 I want to hear what the experts have to say about Turbo Pascal.
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Coach101 Mike Westerfield, held a conference a few weeks ago about the
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Coach101 upcoming ByteWorks "C" compiler, and from what was being
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discussed
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Coach101 in that forum, it looks like it will also be a good system. GA
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AFL Dyfet Our next question will be from Russ. This is an AII board,
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Night1, no Turbo
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AFL Dyfet Pascal here :).
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RussBlue Hi! From a communication with Apple Developer personnel (and other
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developers)
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AFA Gary J Q = Russ, Rich
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RussBlue standpoint, is there an advantage to using APW/TML Pascal vs. TML
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Pascal
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RussBlue STandalone?
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Jump Long !
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AFL Dyfet I recall this topic discussed on one of the message
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folders...anyone wish to
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AFL Dyfet comment. GA Jim!
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Jump Long I like the APW environment myself. You can link in assembly
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routines and data
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AFA Gary J Q = Russ (Jim), Rich
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AFL TimB ? relating to the current ?
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Jump Long structures using it. On the other hand, the standalone environment
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makes
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Jump Long it easy to test NDAs since you can test them without rebooting.
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Jump Long ga
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RussBlue Are Apple Personnel communicative in TML standalone?
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Jump Long Huh?
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ProDude (I think he means conversant)
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RussBlue If I wish to talk to Appler personnel about an application (sorry)
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developed
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RussBlue in Standalone, will we understand each other?
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Jump Long I guess so :) Two or three of us in DTS use TML Pascal at times.
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AFA Gary J Q = Russ (Jim, ?TimB), Rich
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Matt DTS Times of extreme distress.
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AFL Dyfet I guess we can let Tim speak now...
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BillP :)
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Matt DTS (No! I didn't say that. It's a bug in the AppleLink software.)
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Jump Long Now now, Matt
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ProDude he speaks!
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AFL TimB I've heard rumors of departure of TML from the GS market, any
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truth to this?
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AFL Dyfet GA Tim, we're all waiting :)
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AFL Dyfet I do not believe we have anyone here from TML at the moment who
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could answer
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AFL Dyfet that fairly.
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ProDude !
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AFL Dyfet Go ahead ProDude.
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ProDude At their last conference here on AppleLink they said that they
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would continue
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AFA Gary J Q = Russ (ProDude), Rich
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ProDude to support the GS. To me that says they haven't left the GS
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market...
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AFL TimB Thanks Pro
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ProDude at least, not to the extent that Zedcor did.
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ProDude GA
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AFL Dyfet Okay, Thanks Pro. Your question now, Rich, GA.
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RussBlue Thanks for your help. I will check the message folder for more
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info!
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RICH117 After you develop an application, what else has to be delivered to
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the end user
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RICH117 are there any royalities involved?? ga
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BruceK14 ?
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AFL Dyfet Documentation would be nice :)
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Matt DTS ! (? type)
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ProDude (so would customer support)
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AFL Dyfet GO ahead Matt
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AFA Gary J Q = Rich (Matt), Bruce
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Matt DTS Is this "Do I owe the creator of my development system (like TML
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or Byte Works)
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Matt DTS any money?" or "How do I put GS/OS on the disk I ship?"
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Matt DTS (or neither?)
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RICH117 you guessed it sports fan!
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AFA Gary J Both?
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Matt DTS (He answered an either/or with "yes"! AARRGGHH!)
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Matt DTS :-)
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AFA Gary J :)
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DaviesDoug ?
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RICH117 sorry, I meant that I am concerned about the formare not the
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latter.
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ProDude (well done Rich :)
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WBBear ?
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Matt DTS Ah. I can only answer the latter. Next? (GA)
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AFL Dyfet In regards to GS/OS, that needs to be licensed from Apple Computer
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before
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AFL Dyfet you can distribute software with it on the disk. In regards to
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the latter,
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BillP !
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AFA Gary J Q = Rich (Dyfet, Bill), Bruce, Doug, WBBear
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AFL Dyfet that may depend on the product. Anyone else wish to comment on
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this?
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AFL Dyfet GA BillP
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BillP Unless there is some REAL SMALL print on your liscense...
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DwightW1 what does apple charge for the license?
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Coach101 ?
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BillP you owe no royalities to the development system authors
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AFA Gary J Q = Rich (Bill), Bruce, Doug, WBBear, Coach
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AFL TimB !
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RICH117 thanks that answered my question!
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AFL Dyfet That is normally true, Bill. Go ahead Tim.
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Coach101 !
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BillP Some liscenses lately are a little bit of problem in that...
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AFL TimB With TML Speech tools I know that you cannot use them commercially
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without...
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BillP they require you to show the name of their product when your
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boots....
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AFA Gary J Q = Rich (Tim, Coach), Bruce, Doug, WBBear, Coach
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AFL TimB paying license fees to First Byte. Also I think I recall...
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AFL TimB my TML package saying that you cannot create an application using
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more than...
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BillP Personally, I think this is a demonstration of a programmers ego
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DennisDoms !
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BillP /done
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AFL TimB 50% of their source code. I'm not as sure on the last item as I
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am on the...
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AFL TimB first!
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AFA Gary J Q = Rich (Tim, Coach, Dennis), Bruce, Doug, WBBear, Coach
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AFL TimB License fees,,,
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Dave Lyons !
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AFL TimB to First Byte are VERYYYYY expensive
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AFL TimB (done)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, GA coach
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BillP that's if you use their source... that is a little different
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Coach101 Now I am concerned. Matt DTS ducked the question as to whether
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AFL TimB Not on the former Bill.
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Coach101 I owed Apple anything if I distribute an S16 file that was
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linked
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Matt DTS (I did not. It wasn't my turn [using the rules when it's
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conveeenient])
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Coach101 with APW "C" libraries. Did you really mean to duck that Matt?
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Coach101 ga
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AFL Dyfet I think we will let Matt comment now :)
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AFL TimB :)
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Matt DTS No licensing fee of which I'm aware, and I looked fairly recently.
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GA.
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I believe Dennis was next...
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AFA Gary J Q = Rich (Dennis), Bruce, Doug, WBBear, Coach
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DennisDoms I think Byte Works also requires a license for use of some of
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their...
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ProDude ?
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AFL Dyfet I believe Dave also had a comment to add, then we will move to
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next question.
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DennisDoms libraries. When in doubt, be sure and contact the compiler
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manufacturer...
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DennisDoms most policies I've seen are quite reasonable.
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DennisDoms GA
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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AFA Gary J Q = Rich (Dave), Bruce, Doug, WBBear, Coach, ProDude
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Dave Lyons The ByteWorks license costs $0; they just require the paperwork.
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On the
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Dave Lyons TML Pascal stuff--they say your own code has to be a "significant"
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part of your
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Dave Lyons finished product, I think. This is okay, because an application
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consisting
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Dave Lyons almost entirely of TML Pascal sample source code would most likely
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have some
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Dave Lyons bugs anyway. <grin> I _like_ TML Pascal,
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AFA Gary J Q = Rich (Dave), Bruce, Doug, WBBear, Coach, ProDude
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Jump Long :)
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AFL TimB LOL!!!
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JSchober :)
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Dave Lyons but their sample programs do leave some "exercises in debugging"
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for the
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Dave Lyons programmer to solve. ga
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Matt DTS casual user?
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AFL Dyfet Our next question is from Bruce.
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BruceK14 Are there "glue" routines for C/Pascal for Toolbox and cross
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language access or
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BruceK14 must I write my own?
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Matt DTS (That's twice. This is funky.)
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Dave Lyons !
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave
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Dave Lyons Gee, I thought Jim would jump at this one, but.... Calling the
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toolbox from
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AFA Gary J Q = Bruce (Dave), Doug, WBBear, Coach, ProDude
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Dave Lyons either C or Pascal is no problem (you can even declare the tools
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easily
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Dave Lyons yourself if the ones you want are too new to be in the provided
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interface
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Dave Lyons files). Calling Pascal routines from C is also no problem.
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Calling C routines
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Dave Lyons from Pascal would require some assembly language glue code. (Did
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I get all
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Dave Lyons of that right?) ga
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AFL Dyfet Okay, any more comments?
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Coach101 !
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Dave Lyons (I should point out that you want the APW vers of TML to call from
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C, not the
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Dave Lyons standalone vers.)
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AFL Dyfet GA Coach.
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AFA Gary J Q = Bruce (Coach), Doug, WBBear, ProDude
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Coach101 If your "C" routine is called by the toolbox (scroll bar action,
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etc.)
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Coach101 then you will need a minor amount of either "glue" code or some
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assembly
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Coach101 language to get the data bank register set correctly... ga
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AFL Dyfet Okay. I think we will move to Doug's question now...GA Doug.
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DaviesDoug I am writing a program in PASCAL (:)) and was having trouble with
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smoothing....
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DaviesDoug with printing to the laster writer......
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DaviesDoug anyone have smoothing work......
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DaviesDoug couldn't seem to get it to work with AWGS or paintworks either.
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DaviesDoug .done.
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AFL Dyfet I think that's more an issue for print drivers. Any other
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comments?
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AFA Gary J Q = Doug, WBBear, ProDude
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AFL Dyfet I guess not. I guess we had better get to Bear's question. GA
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Bear.
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WBBear What is the best way to get Apple 2 Pascal V 1.3? Thanks for any
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help.
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Matt DTS !
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AFL Dyfet GA Matt.
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Matt DTS You call 1-800-282-APDA. Either that or don black clothing and
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pray...
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Matt DTS ...at the Altar of Forgotten Languages. GA.
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AFA Gary J Q = WBBear (Matt), ProDude
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AFL Dyfet True, Matt. Your question ProDude...GA.
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Matt DTS (The entire package costs about $75, vs. $250 when dealers sold
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it.)
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ProDude What is the fee to license GSOS for distribution?
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AFA Gary J Q = ProDude
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Matt DTS !
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AFL Dyfet GA Matt, get 'em :)
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Matt DTS $75, isn't it? It may have gone up to $85 or $100 lately, but
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|
it's not...
|
|
Matt DTS ...more than $100. For that, you get the right to include
|
|
anything or...
|
|
AFL TimB !
|
|
Matt DTS ...everything on SYSTEM.DISK and SYSTEM.TOOLS. (See GS/OS TN #1.)
|
|
GA.
|
|
AFL Dyfet That's unlimited copies per year per product. GA Tim.
|
|
AFL TimB That's a flat fee, right?
|
|
AFA Gary J Is that per year?
|
|
ProDude part 2
|
|
AFL TimB GMTA
|
|
Mark1000 !
|
|
Matt DTS Yes. Unlimited copies for one product for one year. GA.
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = ProDude (Mark)
|
|
ProDude (I like multi-part questions)
|
|
AFL Dyfet Gary, yes, per year. I thought that clearification might be
|
|
needed. GA Mark.
|
|
Mark1000 It's a flat fee per year... (Matt said it first) :)
|
|
ProDude How do I go about licensing GSOS?
|
|
Mark1000 unlimited copies
|
|
Mark1000 done
|
|
Matt DTS !
|
|
ProDude Matt GA
|
|
AFL Dyfet GA Matt
|
|
ProDude :)
|
|
Matt DTS You call Apple's Software Licensing department at (408)
|
|
974-4667.
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = ProDude (Matt)
|
|
ProDude done
|
|
Matt DTS Or link them at AppleLink Apple Edition SW.LICENSE.
|
|
Matt DTS GA.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Do we have any more questions or comments in regards to tonight's
|
|
topic at this
|
|
AFL Dyfet point?
|
|
ProDude thank you
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = <Empty>
|
|
AFL Dyfet Well, it seems we have made good time here. If there is nothing
|
|
else, I will
|
|
AFL TimB ?
|
|
AFL Dyfet Ah, GA Tim...
|
|
Coach101 !
|
|
AFL TimB Does Apple have the right to withhold license permission depending
|
|
on the....
|
|
AFL TimB nature of the product. Benefits a competitor, in bad taste
|
|
etc.?
|
|
Coach101 Is licensing restricted to
|
|
Coach101 Certified Developers and APple Partners or is it available in
|
|
Coach101 the general case. ga
|
|
AFL TimB Don't all answer at the same time!
|
|
AFL Dyfet I don't believe licensing is restricted in any way to certified
|
|
people. I
|
|
AFL TimB :)
|
|
AFL Dyfet have not heard of Apple refusing to license before, and have no
|
|
idea as to when
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = Tim & Coach
|
|
Matt DTS !
|
|
AFL Dyfet they might, but they do have that right. Matt, I'm sure can
|
|
clearify more :)
|
|
Matt DTS The language is present to allow Apple to refuse or terminate the
|
|
license...
|
|
Coach101 60+ second delay (network?)
|
|
Matt DTS ...but I don't know of any cases where this was done. GA.
|
|
AFL TimB Thankx
|
|
Dave Lyons Yup, anybody can license--all you need is the $$$.
|
|
AFL TimB Very interesting chat!
|
|
AFL Dyfet I guess then if we have nothing else, I will move to end
|
|
protocol...
|
|
AFA Gary J Agree!
|
|
Matt DTS Seconded.
|
|
Dave Lyons How many Macintosh users does it take to change a lightbulb?
|
|
JSchober hehehe
|
|
ProDude Do we have thef food fight now?
|
|
AFL Dyfet (Putting away protocol whips and chains), it is done then...
|
|
ProDude only one Dave
|
|
Matt DTS It depends on whether MultiBulb is installed or not.
|
|
JSchober Welcome to ForumLeaderLand, Dave. :)
|
|
Dave Lyons Just one: he holds up the bulb & the whole universe revolves
|
|
around him. :)
|
|
AFL TimB None. That's a system function?
|
|
JSchober Grooooan...
|
|
AFL Scott :)
|
|
ProDude hahahahahahahahaha
|
|
AFA Gary J ooohhh...
|
|
AFL Dyfet MacPlaymate as system software?
|
|
BillP heeheh Dave! I like it!
|
|
Matt DTS I suggest an attitude change before 4/17/89, Mr. Lyons <stern
|
|
look>
|
|
JSchober :-)
|
|
Matt DTS You're not being obnoxious enough.
|
|
AFA Gary J :)
|
|
AFL TimB Hey, Dave has his freedom for a few more days!!!!
|
|
Jump Long Matt looking stern :--)
|
|
Dave Lyons Hey, I'm just quoting Guy Kawasaki! :)
|
|
DennisDoms Yeah, Matt!
|
|
DennisDoms I can teach Dave how to be obnoxious. :)
|
|
Coach101 Dyfet.... Get those chains away from Matt!!!
|
|
BillP "What's the difference between the Boy Scouts and Apple.....
|
|
Matt DTS You need to perfect phrases like "Piece of sh*t mail system
|
|
crashes alla time."
|
|
ProDude Dave just needs a good role model.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Matt can do that for us on his own, Dennis...
|
|
BillP the Boy Scouts have adult supervision
|
|
Matt DTS ...and "6.0.WHAT???"
|
|
JSchober LOL
|
|
AFL TimB ROTFL!!! BILL!!!!!!
|
|
ProDude ROTFL
|
|
AFL TimB LOL Still!!!!
|
|
BillP on that noe, I will say G'night
|
|
BillP :)
|
|
Dave Lyons Bill, were you at the NAUGC too?
|
|
Matt DTS (That's a quote from "Odyssey", incidentally)
|
|
AFL Scott ROTFL!! For both!!
|
|
Coach101 NoNoNo.... Webster clearly definse Pice of as a synonym for I*M
|
|
BillP note even
|
|
BillP nope, actually read that one in PC World
|
|
JSchober Figures. ;)
|
|
DennisDoms "Does MultiFinder have memory management?"
|
|
Matt DTS It's still a quote from Odyssey.
|
|
BillP It was a quote from Gausee
|
|
Dave Lyons Oh, okay. Either Guy or Tom Weishaar used it at the conference,
|
|
too.
|
|
Matt DTS Does it? Does Apple have a corporate strategy?
|
|
Jump Long Goodnight...
|
|
AFL Dyfet :)
|
|
Matt DTS (well, maybe not such a good analogy) I think it does.
|
|
JSchober Night, Jim! :)
|
|
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Jim.
|
|
AFL Dyfet Good Night Jim...!
|
|
Jump Long ...poof...
|
|
AFL Scott Matt, where is your .signature file? Disclaimer!!;)
|
|
Matt DTS My hard drive isn't big enough.
|
|
Dave Lyons Matt...you think MF has memory management, or you think Apple has
|
|
a strategy?
|
|
AFL Scott LOL!
|
|
JSchober hehe
|
|
Matt DTS Yes.
|
|
DennisDoms The new video card was a good sign. Just when I get really angry
|
|
at Apple...
|
|
AFL Dyfet Hello Joe...awfully quiet tonight, I see...
|
|
Dave Lyons So buy a Profile, Matt...they're bigger.
|
|
Matt DTS (AARRGGHH!!)
|
|
DennisDoms they do something sensible. Rats!
|
|
JSchober Yeah, well, I got in late, then had to leave again. Sorry. How'd
|
|
it go?? :)
|
|
Matt DTS The video card is really nifty.
|
|
JSchober LOL Dave... ;)
|
|
ProDude Have you used the new card, Dennis?
|
|
Matt DTS On a IIgs, you can pick an RGB value for the key color, and the
|
|
video...
|
|
AFA Gary J It sounds great. (The video card)
|
|
JSchober Is it THAT GOOD, Matt?? It looks pretty boring to me, from the
|
|
press releases.
|
|
Matt DTS ...can be set to show through only for that color.
|
|
DennisDoms (Profile?) No, but I Want One.
|
|
ProDude ---===[}}} JSchober
|
|
AFL Dyfet I just got a care package in regards to this card express air
|
|
today :).
|
|
Matt DTS That means you could have a regular desktop with one window of
|
|
that color...
|
|
ProDude No Dennis... the video card
|
|
AFL Scott I have the developer notes.. it looks VERY interesting!
|
|
BillP going to be brave and see if OA-Z still takes me to Apple Cafe
|
|
See ya
|
|
Matt DTS ...and thereby have a "live action" window with little or no
|
|
work.
|
|
DennisDoms Video card - haven't used, want one. Profile - don't have, don't
|
|
want.
|
|
AFL Scott <--needs the card, tho..
|
|
ProDude <-- needs the cash before he gets the card
|
|
Matt DTS You can do the same in Double Hi-res as well. It comes with IIe
|
|
and IIgs tools
|
|
Matt DTS (TOOL033 for the IIgs), a P8 application to set colors and an NDA
|
|
for the IIgs.
|
|
ProDude It's a danged expensive card!
|
|
AFL Dyfet I have two profilers as foot stands myself...
|
|
Dave Lyons Gee, with the video overlay card you could hook a Y adapter to
|
|
your computer's
|
|
JSchober Yes, agreed, ProDude. $600??
|
|
ProDude $549 I think
|
|
Matt DTS It's a heavy card. It's like the most densely populated card
|
|
we've ever done.
|
|
DennisDoms Nearest Apple II competitor is $1800, ProDude.
|
|
Dave Lyons video out & overlay it with itself. That would be neat, eh? :)
|
|
ProDude Is it priced by the pound? :)
|
|
Matt DTS It's got more stuff in a smaller space than anything but the Mega
|
|
II.
|
|
ProDude ouch
|
|
DennisDoms And that one doesn't handle the IIgs video modes.
|
|
JSchober heh... the question is, why don't they make that technology
|
|
standard in the GS,
|
|
JSchober huh?? (sigh)
|
|
AFL Scott But you do need to record the stuff.... if you come from VCR, you
|
|
will need
|
|
AFL Scott two VCRs for the card to be useful...
|
|
ProDude It's still beyond my reach.
|
|
AFL Scott no?
|
|
Matt DTS And raise the base price of the system to $1800? Hmm...
|
|
DennisDoms Does it indeed digitize? (Then I _really_ want one!)
|
|
ProDude It might as well cost a million dollars right now.
|
|
JSchober To $1800?? $999 <=old= base price> + $550 for the card = $1550.
|
|
Weird math
|
|
JSchober you have, Matt.
|
|
Dave Lyons Sure, two VCRs, or a VCR and a camera, or whatever. Or a VCR and
|
|
a tuner. Or
|
|
AFL Scott Matt..The notes didn't say anything about digitizing... does it?
|
|
ProDude It's new math, Joe.
|
|
Dave Lyons you could just watch TV in a little window while you're using your
|
|
computer
|
|
AFL Scott <--doesn't think so.
|
|
Matt DTS $1149 (=current= base price) + 550 = $1700 (off by $100)
|
|
Dave Lyons for other stuff. I don't suppose it can shrink a picture tho, can
|
|
it?
|
|
AFA Gary J Good question, Scott.
|
|
JSchober It's the service charge for installation. :-) Oh, ok, Matt...
|
|
Matt DTS I dn't believe so, but I haven't used it *extensively*.
|
|
JSchober That's Dave's dream... to watch "Moonlighting" while programming.
|
|
:-)
|
|
Dave Lyons As I understand it the card is _not_ a frame
|
|
grabber/digitizer/whatever.
|
|
Coach101 SANE math
|
|
JSchober Don't you mean inSANE??
|
|
DennisDoms <-- new synth on hold (again).
|
|
Matt DTS It can't digitize, I'm pretty sure. You could use your IIgs
|
|
monitor as a TV,
|
|
JSchober Anyway, folks, this talk of cards that are far too expensive for
|
|
me is
|
|
ProDude I just locate my desk so I can see my TV set while I'm working
|
|
:)
|
|
JSchober depressing. I'm gonna leave for the night. Y'all take care...
|
|
Matt DTS though. It even puts the video source on the border (edge to edge
|
|
of screen).
|
|
Dave Lyons To watch "Moonlighting" while moonlighting?
|
|
AFL Scott That's the way I understood, it too... The notes do mention
|
|
interlacing, tho..
|
|
JSchober <something like that, Dave. ;) >
|