525 lines
21 KiB
Plaintext
525 lines
21 KiB
Plaintext
AppleLink
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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March 14, 1989 10:00 p.m. Eastern time
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Topic: Apple IIGS Toolbox Programming
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Forum Leader: James Luther (AFL Jim)
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Dave HDS Hi Matt...great job you people are doing with tech notes...
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AFA Parik yoyo
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Bud Gehr Hi Parik
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AFA Gary J Hi Parik
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Matt DTS Thanks, Dave
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THE GIBBER Thanks for the Tech notes.... They help...
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THE GIBBER alot
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AFA Parik Hi Eyestrain.
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EyeStrain Howdy, what have I missed?
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THE GIBBER Nada
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AFA Parik Hiya GS 816.
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HyperRam How bout ZipChip GS
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AFA Parik Here Bud, you can have mine. Hahaha, just kidding! (I love doing
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that :)
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AFA Gary J Hi Chaos
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Dave HDS Hi Dave
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HyperRam I want to write P16 applications
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THE GIBBER I want to write GSOS applications myself...
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HyperRam Same here
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Matt DTS HyperRam: I left you a LONG message on how to get started in the
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"How do you go to the Toolbox" ...
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Ch Bronson just shake it up baby?
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Matt DTS ...folder.
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HyperRam I just bought the Programmers Intro to the GS
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Bud Gehr I hate the reboot times after I have a pointer get lost!
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THE GIBBER I want a fST that will allow me to format my HD as one 60 meg
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unit
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AFA Gary J Good message too, Matt. (I just finished reading it before coming
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here...
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HyperRam It provide no info
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AFA Gary J took me 15 minutes ;)
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Dave HDS I recall DL is working on a lost and found for pointers...heh...
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AFA Parik LOL Gary
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HyperRam I want to make my own word writer
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AFA Parik hi mick & Gadget.
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GADGET8 hello all
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HyperRam I only can program in BASIC
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Bud Gehr I think I found it! It pointed to the RAM and said there I am!
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THE GIBBER Here is a good one... A customer came in to my store today and
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told me that
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HyperRam How bout I buy TML Basic?
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THE GIBBER IBM was going to put out a MAC clone
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THE GIBBER hehehehe
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EyeStrain Kind of hard to do desktop prog. in basic.
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Mick10 Howdy all. :)
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EyeStrain Do you know Pascal? Tml is great.
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HyperRam no
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HyperRam I only know sad Basic
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Airship I always get an earfull about how the Amiga is so much better than
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a Mac //.
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Mick10 Where is TML on the system.? They seem to be the mystery
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people.
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EyeStrain Then I'd try TML BASIC. I haven't used it, but if it is anything
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like their..
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AFA Parik Hmm, I think everyone here is Jim incognito...
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HyperRam 10 print"Basic is sad!"
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Bud Gehr Its pretty easy to pick up TML pascal even if you have never used
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Pascal before
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EyeStrain Pascal, it should be good.
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HyperRam How bout TML BAsic
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GADGET8 can anyone here prog. in assembly?
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Bud Gehr It has to be, I learned it during development of one program :)
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Ch Bronson tml ain't online anymore
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AFA Gary J Well, looks like Jim's running a little late. I guess we can get
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started
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EyeStrain I can, but choose not to.
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AFA Gary J here without him.
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THE GIBBER Assembly....No I program in Disassembly ;)
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AFA Parik LOL John...
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AFA Gary J Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum. Tonight's topic is
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Apple IIGS
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AFA Gary J Toolbox Programming. We'll try to follow protocol this evening,
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so if you
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AFA Gary J have a question, type a question mark, if you have a comment on
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the current
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AFA Gary J topic, type a "!".
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HyperRam ?
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HyperRam How long is this
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AFA Gary J Q = HyperRam
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HyperRam How long is this
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AFA Gary J Go ahead with your quesion, Hyper
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Mick10 ?? Midi Tools....I need documentation. Is apda the only
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source.?
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HyperRam How long is this program?
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AFA Gary J How long is this forum meeting?
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HyperRam Yes
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THE GIBBER (sorry...Be back later)
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Mark153 Excuse me for the interuption, but this is my 1st call to
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Applelink, and I don'
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AFA Gary J One hour. Sometimes we run over a little in the end.
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Mark153 know what I am doing!?!?
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AFA Gary J PROTOCOL!!
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HyperRam ?
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AFA Gary J Mark - Welcome to AppleLink and the Apple II Development Forum.
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We are
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HyperRam I'm dumb, but what is a protolcol?
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AFA Gary J discussing toolbox programming, and are using forum protocol,
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which means if
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AFA Gary J you have a question, type "?" or if you have a comment on the
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current topic,
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AFA Gary J type "!". I'll keep track of the order of questions in a
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queue.
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EyeStrain ?
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Mark153 !
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AFA Gary J HyperRam, did you have an additional question?
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HyperRam No, thank you.
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AFA Gary J Q = HyperRam
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Mark153 Hmm... I 'spode it will take me a while to get used to it. Just
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keep
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Mick10 ! Midi Tools
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Mark153 conversing...
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Mark153 By the way, is there a way to change my name on here?
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AFA Gary J Ok...Mark, did you have a comment?
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Mark153 Sorry, no comment.
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Mark153 hehe..???
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AFA Gary J Ok..
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AFA Gary J Hello Jim.
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AFA Gary J (We started without you :)
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AFA Gary J Q = EyeStrain
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AFL Jim Howdy - couldn't get my system to connect for 10 minutes
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AndyP2 ?
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HyperRam ?
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EyeStrain I've got all the books I can find on desktop programming. Where
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do I
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AFA Gary J Q = EyeStrain, Andy, HyperRam
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EyeStrain Go for the info on how to put all this together?
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GS 816 !
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HyperRam Will this talk about programming? I want to write NDA's
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AFA Gary J What language do you want to program in, Eyestrain?
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EyeStrain TML pascal
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AndyP2 writing NDAs is programming hyper
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HyperRam I know
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AFA Gary J Q = EyeStrain (GS 816), Andy, HyperRam
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HyperRam Will this conf talk about programing?
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EyeStrain I thought perhaps Mac books might help. Any thoughts?
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GS 816 Eyestrain, do you already know how to prog. in Pascal?
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Larry90 bye
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EyeStrain yes
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GS 816 then a good first book would
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GS 816 be to look at Programmers Introduction to see
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GS 816 how they are handling the pascal protocols and the toolbox
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interface
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GS 816 with the various types of variables, etc. Programmers Intro is
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part
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GS 816 of Addison Wesley's Apple Reference Series. ga
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AFA Gary J Q = EyeStrain (GS 816), Andy, HyperRam
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HyperRam I got the Programs Intro
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Rodge1 ?
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EyeStrain Yes, I have it. It's helpful to a point.
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HyperRam Bye
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GS 816 to what point?
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HyperRam Gotta go.
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AFL Jim Eyestrain, do you know other languages (like C or 65816
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assembly)?
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AFA Gary J Q = EyeStrain (GS 816), Andy, HyperRam, Rodge
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EyeStrain I can do a simple desktop prog. but want to do fancy stuff like
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custom desktops
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EyeStrain and so forth.
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Mick10 ?
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Dave Lyons !
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Rodge1 Is there a good intro book for those who don't know how to
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program?
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EyeStrain No, Jim, I don't. I can do 6502 asm, but only have Merlin Pro.
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AndyP2 hold it rodge. me first
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AFA Gary J Q = EyeStrain (Dave), Andy, HyperRam, Rodge, Mick
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AFA Gary J EyeStrain still has the floor, Rodge.
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AFL Jim There are some Sample Code files from Apple II DTS that you might
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look at for
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AFL Jim additional examples. They are in the Apple Releases library.
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AFL Jim Dave GA
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Dave Lyons What's a "custom desktop"? Not sure what you're getting at.
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(ga)
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AFA Gary J Q = EyeStrain (Dave), Andy, Rodge, Mick
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Matt DTS (Hope I didn't miss anything addressed to me.)
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AFL Jim Eyestrain?
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EyeStrain I mean drawing on the desktop like finder and other progs. do.
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EyeStrain The toolbox manuals cover this, but are not clear.
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Dave Lyons Okay, that isn't too hard to do--you need to
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Dave Lyons call the Desktop routine in the Window Manager and install a
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procedure that
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Dave Lyons does a SetPort to a port of your own, erases the thing to whatever
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background
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Dave Lyons pattern you're using, and then draws additional stuff (like
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Icons). The Finder
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Dave Lyons works this way, and I can give you details in a folder in the
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Let's Discuss
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Dave Lyons area if you want them. ga
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AFA Gary J Q = EyeStrain (Dave), Andy, Rodge, Mick
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EyeStrain What sort of Bounds do you use for this port?
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DaviesDoug !
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Dave Lyons If you just call OpenPort, it defaults to the whole screen--no
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problem.
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EyeStrain Won't that overdraw the menubar?
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DaviesDoug You could use the Window Managers port or Menu Managers port
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Dave Lyons Mmm...I guess I'm leaving out a step where you let the system have
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a handle to
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Dave Lyons the clip region for your port. It works out so that only the
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visible desktop
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Dave Lyons region gets drawn to, without any fuss.
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Dave Lyons Remind me what language you're writing in & I'll post some sample
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code.
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AFA Gary J Q = EyeStrain (Dave, Doug), Andy, Rodge, Mick
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EyeStrain Great! I'm done.
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DaviesDoug .done.
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AFL Jim Andy, GA
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AFA Gary J Q = Andy, Rodge, Mick
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AFL Jim (EyeStrain uses TML Pascal)
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AFL Jim Rodge, GA (Andy is gone)
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Rodge1 can you suggest an intro book for those of us that don't program
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yet?
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Matt DTS !
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GS 816 !
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AFA Parik ?
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AFL Jim GA Matt
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Matt DTS I just posted a LONG message concerning this very subject in...
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Matt DTS ...the "How do you go to the Toolbox" folder in "IIgs Toolbox"
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under "Let's Discuss."
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AFA Gary J Q = Rodge (Matt, GS 816), Mick, Parik
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Matt DTS It lists lotsa books of an introductory nature. GA.
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AFA Gary J (Somehow I knew you would say that, Matt! :)
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AFL Jim GS 816, GA
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GS 816 quickly, I like Lichty and Eyes new book
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GS 816 Programming the Apple IIGS in Assembly Language and
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GS 816 will go back to Gary Little's for a simpler, and sometimes
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fuller
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GS 816 explanation for some of the older routines that I didn't bother
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with
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GS 816 before. His is Exploring the Apple IIGS fa
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GS 816 thats ga not fa
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AFL Jim Anyone else want to throw in their favorite intro to programming
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book?
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Dave Lyons (Besides alpha reference manuals, you mean? :-)
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EyeStrain The TML pascal manual and source code sampler help.
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FourPi Mark Andrews, Programming the Apple IIgs in C and Assembly
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Language
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AFA Gary J Q = Rodge, Mick, Parik
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BillP disassembling Niftylist helps
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AFA Parik heck, forget the books, just grab a Dave Lyons Reference Set.
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AFL Jim If you're going to learn to program from scratch, I'd suggest a
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good Pascal
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AFL Jim text book and either ORCA Pascal or TML Pascal.
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Matt DTS A Bad Pascal will teach you more but won't be as much fun.
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AFL Jim Matt :P
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Matt DTS (obnoxious but true)
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AFL Jim Mick, go ahead with your question.
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Mick10 The TML Basic is pretty good for structure if you've seen a little
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of Pascal or
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FourPi !
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AFA Gary J Q = Rodge (FourPi), Mick, Parik
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Mick10 But My ? is about MIDI tools. Any good references?
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AFA Gary J oops.
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AFA Gary J Q = Mick (FourPi), Parik
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Matt DTS !
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AFL Jim There's a good article in Call-A.P.P.L.E. (December 1988 issue)
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that you
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AFL Jim should read. It's by Apple's Jim Mensch.
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AFL Jim GA FourPi
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Dave Lyons !
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FourPi I have been trying to use APW C and having a lot of trouble
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FourPi getting past a simple desktop.
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FourPi I get lots of compile errors from things like
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AFL Jim FourPi, we'll have to get to you in a minute on that. The subject
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now is
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AFL Jim MIDI tools.
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AFL Jim GA Matt
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Matt DTS There are three main published MIDI Tools references or articles
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you should investigate:
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Matt DTS One is the Apple IIgs Toolbox Reference Update, giving the
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Official Word on the subject.
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AFA Gary J Q = Mick, Parik, FourPi
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Matt DTS Two is the release notes for System Disk 4.0, also available from
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APDA.
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Matt DTS Three is the article by Jim Mensch previously mentioned.
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Matt DTS Four is an Apple IIgs tech note we'll try to get out in our next
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mailing (May), which...
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Matt DTS ...tells you how to write your own MIDI Drivers. GA.
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AFL Jim Anything to add to that, Dave? GA
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Dave Lyons (My ! was on BASIC and structure...what happened to that topic?)
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Mick10 Ok. Thanks I've got the release notes for GS/OS they only included
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the Sound
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Mick10 Tools
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AFL Jim Parik, your question? GA
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AFA Gary J Q = Mick, Parik, FourPi
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AFA Parik 1) Do one second interrupts get affected by the TW GS? Mine seems
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to (I'm not
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AFA Gary J Q = Parik, FourPi
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AFA Parik sure, its very erratic but works fine in normal mode)?
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AFA Parik ga
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AFL Jim (Dave, it wasn't the subject... it was a comment :)
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Matt DTS Don't ask us; ask Applied Engineering! <grin>
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AFA Parik :P
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AFA Gary J heheh
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Matt DTS I don't know of anyone else who would *know*; just others who
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might *guess*.
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AFA Parik 2) has anyone played with diversi tunes songs? Obviously you
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can't use some
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AFL Jim That's probably a good place to start, Parik. I have only _seen_ a
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TranswarpGS
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AFL Jim one time.
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AFA Parik tools with them, i'll contact Bill Basham for more info on this
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but I'm wonderi
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AFA Parik if anyone has some first hand knowledge (easy, hard, give it up,
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etc :)
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AFA Gary J Q = Parik, FourPi
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AFA Parik Ga <done, etc>
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Dave Lyons !
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AFL Jim Bill is a Forum Developer here on AppleLink, Parik. He may or may
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not want to
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AFL Jim give out the file format. GA Dave
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Dave Lyons I don't understand the question, I guess...do you have the file
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formats for the
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Dave Lyons songs? What do you mean about no being able to use tools "with"
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the songs? ga
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AFA Parik I don't have diddly squat. :) My friend loves using the program,
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so I need to
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Matt DTS !
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AFA Parik find some way to play them. I doubt they output in ASIF
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format...?
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Dave Lyons !
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AFA Gary J Q = Parik (Matt, Dave), FourPi
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AFL Jim Bill was supposed to have a conversion utility, but I don't know
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if he's writte
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AFL Jim n it yet.
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AFL Jim Matt GA
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Matt DTS Once upon a long time ago, Bill said he would release the file
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format if there was interest.
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Matt DTS Currently I don't have the formats, published or unpublished.
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GA.
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AFL Jim Dave GA
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Dave Lyons You want to PLAY the songs? You already have a way to do that:
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Use
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Dave Lyons Diversi-Tune!
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Dave Lyons ga
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFA Parik I don't think a progam should be saying "Please load
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diversi-tune"...:)
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AFL Jim OK FourPi, what kind of C problems are you having??
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AFA Parik Clarification: I want to play them inside MY program.
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AFL Jim GA
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BillP !
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AFA Parik (But I'll ask bill, ga)
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AFA Gary J Q = FourPi
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FourPi I have problems with APW compiling corectly for simple structures
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that
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AFA Parik SOMEONE hit the OA_M/A key...:)
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FourPi contain NULL.
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AFA Gary J (darn OA-C!!)
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Dave Lyons !
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AFA Gary J Q = FourPi (Dave)
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FourPi I have to use 0L and other dodges to compile successfully.
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Dave Lyons Can you give us a small example of what you mean? And are you
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talking APW C?
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FourPi I am talking APW C.
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THE GIBBER (gezzz..... hard time connecting tonight)
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Dave Lyons And the problem is: errors at compile time, incorrectly
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initialized structs?
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AFA Gary J Q = FourPi (Dave), BillP
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FourPi When I try to use the Print Manager mainly.
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Dave Lyons You're saying the structures are not properly set up with your
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initial values,
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Dave Lyons then, right?
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BLACKJACK7 HELLO?
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FourPi Right
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FourPi Do I need to set up NULL?
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Dave Lyons Well...I guess it'd help to know how you KNOW they are wrong.
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NULL should
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Dave Lyons already be #define-ed in <stdio.h>. If you had no definition, you
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would get an
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Dave Lyons error at compile time.
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AFA Gary J Q = FourPi (Dave), BillP
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FourPi What I get is an error something like pointers to different
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structures.
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Dave Lyons Ah. I thought you were saying it compiled successfully but didn't
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have the
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Mick10 !
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Dave Lyons correct data set up in the structure. What you need to do is look
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at the
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Dave Lyons declaration (in <print.h> or whatever) of the structure you are
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initializing,
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AFA Gary J Q = FourPi (Dave, Mick), BillP
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Dave Lyons and use something like (ThisDataType) NULL instead of just
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NULL, to "cast"
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Dave Lyons the value into the correct type.
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Dave Lyons (The data type can be more compliated than a name: (unsigned
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**) NULL would
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Dave Lyons be a pointer to a pointer to an unsigned integer, for example.)
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DaviesDoug ?
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Dave Lyons Does that help?
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AFA Gary J Q = FourPi (Dave, Mick), BillP, Doug
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FourPi OK. I'll check all the structures and set them by hand.
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AFL Jim Mick, GA with your comment.
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FourPi Thanks. I'm through complaining.
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Mick10 Is TML's Basic data struc similar to their Pascal structures.
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and..
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Mick10 Basic has some bugs and am thinking of just going to Pascal
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AFL Jim Well, that's really a question, but no, they aren't the same and
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you would
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AFL Jim probably be better off with Pascal.
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Dave Lyons !
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AFL Jim GA Dave
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Dave Lyons (Or whatever punctuation means a comment to a comment. :)
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Dave Lyons BASIC has no RECORDs the way Pascal does--that is
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Dave Lyons very, very icky, especially for dealing with the toolbox. I was
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going to
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Dave Lyons say earlier that there are TWO kinds of "structure" that are both
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important.
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Mick10 But the Tools interface is the same.
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AFA Gary J Q = Mick (Dave), BillP, Doug
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Dave Lyons Conrol strucutures like repeat...until, while, for, etc, and "data
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structures,"
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Dave Lyons which include arrays and records. BASIC has only arrays, which
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are collections
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Dave Lyons of things all of the same type. RECORDs (in C, "structures") are
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collections
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Dave Lyons of named things of possibly different types, and when you use the
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toolbox you
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Dave Lyons often need to deal with records. It can be done in BASIC, but
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only by knowing
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Dave Lyons how many bytes from the beginning of an "array" each piece of info
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starts.
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Dave Lyons Icky. (don)
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Dave Lyons (or "done", even)
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Mick10 Ok. It was the data structure I was getting at. Dont want to
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write new ones
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AFL Jim OK Bill, GA
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AFA Gary J Q = BillP, Doug
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BillP This relates back to a previous question...
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BillP and actually to a flash note I just got... Now suppose...
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BillP suppose mind you....
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BillP that AppleLink IIGS allowed you to play music while online....
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BillP which music format would be the format of choice...
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BillP ie... should it support music studio.... Diversi tune
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format...
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AFA Parik all :)
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BillP open for comments.. ga
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AFL Vince how about generic digitized sound format, whatever that is...
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Matt DTS !
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BillP no one is preferred over another then
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AFL Jim GA Matt
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AFA Gary J Q = Bill (Matt), Doug
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AFL Jim (I'm with Vince)
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BillP digitize is easy... its playing sequences that we need to do
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Matt DTS I personally would prefer Audio IFF for sounds; it's quite
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flexible.
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MattDenman !
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AFL Jim GA MattD
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AFA Gary J Q = Bill (MattDenman), Doug
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MattDenman You could use the MIDI Standard file formatt.
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Arney GA
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MattDenman And if your "Sequencer" didn't use that as an input
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MattDenman it should be fairly easy to write a converter.
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BillP we'd need something as cruched as possible.
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BillP I think you're right about the converter
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BillP thanks
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AFL Jim Doug, GA with your question.
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DaviesDoug GS/OS Question : I want to open up a directory that DOES NOT have
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read.....
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AFA Gary J Q = Doug
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DaviesDoug priveleges to do get_dir_entry's on......
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DaviesDoug ok, I open it with request_access = 2 and I get an error.....
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DaviesDoug of course.....
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DaviesDoug but how come request = 0 works fine then....
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DaviesDoug when I am going to read anyway....
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DaviesDoug seems sorta funny.
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DaviesDoug .done.
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Dave Lyons !
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Matt DTS !
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AFL Jim Dave GA
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AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Dave, Matt)
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Dave Lyons What am I missing? You won't be able to read anything from it
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anyway, right,
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AFL Jim (he beat you Matt)
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DaviesDoug with getdirentry's I am, aren't I?
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Dave Lyons so you're just asking why you don't get an error for access=0
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request? Does
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Matt DTS Are you saying GetDirEntry succeeds to a file you don't have read
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access to?
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Dave Lyons that mean "all access possible," so that it gives you all it can,
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|
which is
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Dave Lyons nothing? (done)
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DaviesDoug ok, so file not open for reading if i just ask for access 0
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DaviesDoug and get_dir_entry doesn't need read access
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DaviesDoug just an open file, right?
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Dave Lyons GetDirEntry doesn't open any files.
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Dave Lyons Right?
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Matt DTS Doug: Are you saying that if you do GetDirEntry on a directory
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that you DON'T have read access to...
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DaviesDoug but you need to open the directory for the call, dave
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|
Dave Lyons Oops, sorry. Misread your message.
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Matt DTS ...that it succeeds? (gives you an entry and no errors?)
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DaviesDoug Well, it seems Finder lets me try to copy
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DaviesDoug a folder that did not have read access....and it traversed
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DaviesDoug all the sub-directories
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DaviesDoug shouldn't have let me see them
|
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DaviesDoug This is all on MY HARD DISK
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AFA Gary J Q = Doug (Dave/Matt)
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DaviesDoug using GSOS 4.0 calls
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Matt DTS Doug: Let's take this off-line. This is getting a little long
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and involved and our time's up.
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DaviesDoug .fine.
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AFA Gary J Post in "Let's Discuss..."
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AFA Parik Great chat, at least 40 people came through...more than we get a
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year. heh
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AFL Jim Well, it's time to close this meeting. Thanks for coming
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tonight.
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THE GIBBER parik.... If only I could stay on I would have stayed here....:(
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THE GIBBER I keep being thrown off.....
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THE GIBBER on
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AFA Gary J ()()()()()()()!
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GS 816 Nice chat.... enjoyed it! :)
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AFA Gary J Yes.
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AFA Parik (.) (.) :)
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Matt DTS See y'all next week! Gotta keep an appointment.
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THE GIBBER Great Eyes parik
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Dave Lyons Bye all, and may you never draw in a closed port....
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AFA Parik Yup John.
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THE GIBBER Bye Dave
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