835 lines
31 KiB
Plaintext
835 lines
31 KiB
Plaintext
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SUBJECT: COMPUSERVE CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT CONT. FILE: UFO3221
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(Ted) Did everyone read the press release that Speiser
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uploaded. GA
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(DON) Hi ya all, I got a letter from Jim on our board
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here stating that the networks should be releasing
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the info on the Gulf Breezes sometime sat or
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today. no word yet.
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(Ted) Yes. I called th Gulf Breezes Sentinel on Friday,
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but they refused to give out any info at this
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time. They are however, sending me a copy of all
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articles they have published to date on the
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subject.
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(DRAX) Greetings, Earthlings
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(DON) Hi guy.
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(Ted) Well speak of the !$#@@**. Hi Jim.
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(DRAX) Hi Ted. Sorry, what were you talking about?
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(Ted) Gulf Breezes and the news releasee you uploaded
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earlier. Do you have any further info on the
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subject.
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(DRAX) Yup. <evil snicker>
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(Ted) Don't keep us waiting. DUmp it SPeiser!
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(DRAX) Haha....
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(DRAX) From what I've been able to put together a press
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conference took place on Friday, attended by,
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among others, Walt Andrus, Donald Ware (FL MUFON
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Dir.) and a couple of investigators. I understand
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the main percipient was NOT there, still wants to
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remain semi-anonymous.
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According to Bruce Maccabee, a special camera was
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sent by MUFON, registered and sealed, to be used
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by the fellow. on his next photographic outing. He
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did so, and, as Bruce says, "There's something
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there....". The camera, according to Walt, was a
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special 3-D model (anyone know anything like
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that?). He has also passed a lie detector test.
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That's about all I know now.
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(Gerry) I know what 3-d cameras are, if that's what you're
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asking.
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(DRAX) Can such things be disguised as regular 35mm?
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(Gerry) I'd think it unlikely, as they have two lenses.
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(Ted) I have a 3-D camera but it is a slide type taking
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two slides at once. I believe Dale is next.
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(Dale) Pass.
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(Ted) We are using formal CO rules tonight. If you have
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a question or comment type a "?" or "!" I get to
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you in order. Ok DBC your up GA
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(DBC) Ok. Jim, what about this "amazing" vidio that was
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viewed by Andrus and Hopkins?
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(DRAX) All I know is, its reportedly "amazing." I haven't
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seen it so I can't tell you much.
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(Ted) ok Don Youre up.
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(DON) Jim, I've kept my eye on the tube all weekend!
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where is the news reprot?
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(Ted) Jim repy?
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(DRAX) Good kveschin. I think all you need do is refer to
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my recent exchange in JFORUM to see that we in
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ufology may have cried wolf once too often, and
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now that perhaps we have a real wolf in the fold,
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Big Media is putting us on permanent ignore.
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(Ted) The sky is falling ! GA
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(Ted) JIM, you got more out of Walt A. than I did. When
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I talked to him earlier this week he told me they
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had a special camera but wouldn't tell me what
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kind. If it is the same 3-D type camera that I
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have then I doubt they will ge much. You have to
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be real close to get much of a three D effect.
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(DRAX) Ok, I don't know for sure what type of camera it
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is, Walt told me 3-D and also told me not to spill
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the beans on that, but Bruce told me that he had
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taken a picture with it, so I figured it was time.
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Walt may not have described the camer properly,
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however. GA
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(Gerry) Even though you don't have much 3d effect you
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still may get important differences in
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registration of images which can turn up under
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analysis.
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(Ted) Yes, thats true. It would give the ability to
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measure the distance to the object within limits.
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(DRAX) A few points should be made. Its important that
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the guy made the effort to use the camera. it was
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registered. That indicates, at least, that he
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doesn't fear "exposure" as a hoax. Its also the
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first time a UFO percipient has ever used a
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registered camera provided by investigators. Bruce
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Maccabee is ufology's leading photo-analyst, and
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while he has not passed final judgement on the
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photos, he remains cautiously (oh so cautiously)
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enthusiastic. "There's something there" from Bruce
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is QUITE a bit of enthusiasm, I assure you.
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(DON) Ok, Jim, two questions. First, was the half hour
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documentry aired by the local Fla. station, and
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next, the witness are you inferring that the
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object kept returning to the same area to be
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photographed? (and what about Budd?)
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(DRAX) As far as I know, the show was aired, and John
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Lear has arranged for a tape to be FedExed to him.
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I should hear from him Monday. I don't know if the
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object returned to the same location each time,
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but this has been an ongoing series of sightings,
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yes. And what about Budd? He's also enthusiastic.
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(DON) I refer to Budds area of expertise-abductions-any
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word? ga
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(Ted) I understand that Budd is VERY enthusiastic about
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the case and feels that the abduction is a
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certainty. The abductee at last word was
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unwilling to be hypnmotized at this time a little
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fearful of the hypnosis, I understand. Jim did you
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want to add more.
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(DRAX) Beyond that he suspects a series of abductions,
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no. Yes, I think we should just say that NOTHING,
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of course, is a true certainty at this time, and
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that enthusiasm <> endorsement. But it certainly
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is looking very good so far to my knowledge,
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nothing has yet turned up to throw a bad light on
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the case.
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(DBC) Jim, do I understand correctly that members of the
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media in gulf breezes have seen the craft?
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(DRAX) I don't think I've heard that. That is certainly
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true in Texarkana, but not to my limited knowledge
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in Gulf Breeze.
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(DBC) I find it interesting that there have been so many
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examples of media people who have actually
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witnessed these things certainlly the case in the
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Hudson valley as well as Arkansas. What bothers me
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is why doesn' Big Media seem to have any faith in
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Small Media?
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(Ted) I think you can get the answer from the thread
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going on under the subject "JFORM and UFOs".) They
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are just plain not interested in anything that
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does not have "researchable" material that can
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hold up in the public scrutiny of fellows like
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Phil Klass.
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(DRAX) It looks like we're going to have to wait for Sam
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Donaldson to be abudcted and do a live feed from
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aboard a beamship before the subject gets the
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attention it deserves speaking of Klass, I had
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dinner with him the other night. GA
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(Ted) Ok jim, what did he have to say and did you need
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any bicarb afterwards. GA
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(Dale) Traitor
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(DON) THE BIG BUG-A-BOO, HUH??
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(DRAX) "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer"
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--Don Corleone ... I always need bicarb after
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eating in my restaurant. He knew nothing of
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Texarkana, and very little of FL. after I
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described a little of what I knew of the latter,
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his reaction was basically, "Well, if you believe
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in the govt. cover-up theory, you would think the
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Air Force would be down there confiscating photos
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and hushing up witnesses. The fact that they
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aren't must prove to you that they think its a
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hoax." He had some other things to say, most of
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which left such a bad taste in my mouth I'd rather
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not repeat them. GA
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(Ted) Jim, do you think that Klass really believes all
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the theories ne puts out. (I was going to say CRAP
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but thought better of it.) ga
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(DON) manure also fits
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(DRAX) Yes, I do. I don't believe he is in the employ of
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the govt because I'd like to think the govt. would
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spend my tax dollars on a better debunker.
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(Ted) Ok, I think we have been ignoring DON and for
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that I beg forgiveness. Ok DON you're up.
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(DBC) Ted, Neil. is here.
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(DON) Thank you. Ok, I think that DBC made an execellt
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point about the large medias. I find it hard to
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believe that potentially the largest story of this
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centuray could be ignored in this manner so I
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think that there could be another reason for them
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to ignore this story. Anyone else think so? ga
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(Ted) Neil it appears you have generated a lot of
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interest here tonight. Bring us up to date on the
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Lake Erie triangle.
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(Neil) Ted, the Erie Triangle is not what it is called.
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The Lake ontario triangle is where the Triangle
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is, but many sightings do occur on Lake Erie. This
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will take a minute of everyone's timw, but to
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answer John.'s ?, if you go to the public library,
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the U.S. Geological Survey Team has a U.s. Gov't
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photo(infrared) that shows the structure under
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Lake Ontario. As far as the magazine name, I
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discussed this with my team & they said no way at
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giving the name out over the air, but if I were to
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meet you in person or talk on the phone, that's a
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different case.
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(Ted) Neil, I tried to call you on the Phone this week.
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The operator said that either you didn't exist or
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that you had an unlisted number. I figure the MIB
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had gotten to you! I tried to get your number
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through information in Rochester. If you number
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is unlisted please send it to me via EMAIL.
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(Neil) Sounds great!!! Yes, it is unlisted...I have to or
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owe you a reply, but you will get my # before I
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exit the forum tonight!
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(Joe) Thanks, just a fast comment on Big Media. Check
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out the March 5 TV Guide, under Jeers on Page 23,
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its a criticism of Network News for SOFT stories
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(like UFOs).
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(DBC) Neil, you were trying to give us some clues on the
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name of the mag but about all I could come up with
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was Rand McNally with emphasis on the RAND. Is
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this close? also could you tell us what section of
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the lake this "ufo base" is suppose (DBC) to be
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located.?....and finally since you say you have
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seen the craft over 300 times, do you have a
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secret for how to locate them or a sense of when
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and where to look?
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(Neil) I wonder!!!
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(Ted) ga NEIL
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(Ted) Neil GA
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(Neil) The approximate location is between NiagAra-on-
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the-Lake & Toronto,Ca & it is about 15
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mile(approx.) from the N-o-t-L Shoreline......GA
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(DRAX) I hafta git going, but wanted to drop in a couple
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of bulletins first, we're working on getting an
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online press conference for the Convention Center
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on the Gulf thing will try to get Bruce Maccabee I
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guess thats about it...take it easy, yall, its
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bowling time!
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(Ted) Does this mean you're coming back!!!<looking
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hopeful!> GA
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(DRAX) Some day, son, some day not right away tho. GA
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(Neil) Drax, I wasn't on earlier...whats the 'GULF
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THING???GA
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(DRAX) 'splain it to him, guys...I gotta dash. Bye!
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(Ted) Neil read the DL10 Database in a recent addition.
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(Last two days) for further info. ga
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(Neil) Thanks, Ted!!!!GA
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(Randy) Anybody know what happened in Texarkana....I was
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about to go down there??
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(Ted) There has been a recent UFO series of sightings
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there. Much like those of the Hudson valley
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variety. GA
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(Randy) Apparently about 500 people have reported seeing a
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vehicle like the Hudson Valley craft??
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(Ted) Neil. john abrams had a question on the board
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about the gov't document. Perhaps john would
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like to bring it up here? GA
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(John) neil, what is the name of the magazine? tell me
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more about the photo?ga
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(Neil) John, please understand this I cannot reveal the
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name over the air waves, but in person or on
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telephone....GA
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(Ted) Neil, we would also like to know more about the
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gov't photo that you have...
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(Neil) it specifically shows a long...
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(John) neil will you c i will send you my phone no. over
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easyplex call me collect
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(Neil) Sounds fine with me but near the end of this CO
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session. OK
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(Ted) the govt photo did it have a number on it. GA
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(Neil) NO, we found it was not necessary for being
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published.GA
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(Randy) Neil....Did your photo have any government
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identification numbers on it, or the specific name
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of any government agency???
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(Neil) The U.S. Geological Survey Team is the one that
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has access to 3 diffent sattelites!!!...GA
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(Randy) Did the photo have the terms "LANDSAT", SEASAT",
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or any similar nomenclature stamped on the back or
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front???
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(Neil) The original photo from U.S.Geo had something
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similar to SEASAT...GA
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(Randy) Does the photo have any U.S. Geologi?
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(DBC) you were about to describe what's in the photo
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please continue.ga
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(Neil) The photo shows a structure under water that comes
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out the Western part of toronto and purtrudes
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approx. 15 miles out. Our team check out
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everything possible even Toronto Water Works &
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they know of no such structure!!!GA
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(Ted) Has you're team sent out any underwater divers? I
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know a little about the waters there enough to
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know that if you're seeing a structure under water
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then it can't be too deep. The waters there are
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just not that clear.
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(Neil) Our team can not find anyone with the guts to go
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out there at night when the most activity takes
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place...There have been many planes and) small
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watercraft that have disappeared over the
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years...Any Volunteers?
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(Ted) Neil, I would think that the time to go out would
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be during the day when it is easier to see what is
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under the water. From what I remember of the
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waters in that area the structure couldn't be more
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that 50 feet or less and still be able to see it
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under the best of condtions.
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(Neil) That is one thing our team can't say;is how deep
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the structure is in the water I do know it is
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quite deep. Cousteau's son had his air line cut'
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by something' & he died in those waters. What cut
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the air line who knows. This happened not too many
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|
years back.
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Randy) Yes, first a comment and then 2 questions for
|
||
|
Neil. The comment is that satellite imagery does
|
||
|
not necessarily illustrate depth or visibility
|
||
|
conditions in water...the questions for Neil are
|
||
|
1). Do you have the U.S.Geological Survey Photo
|
||
|
Numbers for the prints in your possession??...and
|
||
|
2) Are the prints primarily in red/brown tones, or
|
||
|
in green/blue tones, or do they appear to be
|
||
|
"regular" color photographs???
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) The closest is 'red/brown' tones...I have a photo
|
||
|
in my posession that is cropped for detail and
|
||
|
unfrtunately the public labrary has the U.S.Geo
|
||
|
photos under refernce...It frustrates me when
|
||
|
these obstacles are always in the way!!!GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Gerry) IR may not scatter at the same rate in the murk as
|
||
|
does visible light. Anybody know? Also the
|
||
|
small-scale detail may be lost before the large-
|
||
|
scale structure.
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) IR doesn't scatter as much but does get absorbed
|
||
|
faster. GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Gerry) Ok. Just thought I'd bring it up. ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Good question. GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Ted, please be more discriptive...
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Gerry) But even if absorbed, isn't it re-transmitted,
|
||
|
rather sort of diffused? ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) I'm not sure what you mean by re-transmitted. GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Gerry) Only thinking that the general temperature of the
|
||
|
water above the object may be changed by its IR
|
||
|
radiation. If it were, it would show up in IR
|
||
|
photos.
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) If the water is warm it will give off IR radiation
|
||
|
do we know that the photos were of IR nature? GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Randy) YES....!!!
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Then I guess the resolution all depends on how
|
||
|
deep and how "hot" the object is also how much
|
||
|
energy absorbing material there is. oK Randy
|
||
|
anything more. GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Randy) Yes...I have to ask Neil if the images were
|
||
|
digitized, that is, consisting of small squares,
|
||
|
or true linear IR photographs, I.E., no small
|
||
|
squares??
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) True Linear IR photos!!!...Ted, I am serious when
|
||
|
I mentioned about any takers with a good size
|
||
|
watercraft that will go out on the lake around
|
||
|
dusk...GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Anyone out there with a craft willing to go out in
|
||
|
these waters? If not....
|
||
|
|
||
|
(DBC) Not me thankyou!!!!!
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Neil why don't you post a message on the message
|
||
|
board.
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Joe) IR would only show heat differential, what is at
|
||
|
the land end of the structure and is the
|
||
|
structrure hot or cold?? .. ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Good idea, Ted!!!
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Randy) Right!!!
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Light differiental is also involved with IR
|
||
|
photos!GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(DBC) Neil, from what position have you been observing
|
||
|
the entries/exits into the underwater base) and
|
||
|
have you estimated how often the entries/exits
|
||
|
occur?
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) It used to be almost every Wed. and Sunday
|
||
|
nights...somestimes a person will sit there for 4
|
||
|
hours and in the last 15 minutes of that 4 hours,
|
||
|
everything happens or it could be weeks...Ted, I
|
||
|
would like to make a statement on the photos...GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(John) sit where
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Ok NEIL GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) first, John., Niagara-on-the-lake, Canada) looking
|
||
|
toward Toronto,Canada...Ted, The IR photos from
|
||
|
the sattelite match our land triaglation perfectly
|
||
|
of where the base is!GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(John) neil, you sit and watch these craft entering and
|
||
|
leaving the structure from 15 miles away?
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Approximately...I would rather say 12 miles away
|
||
|
to give an exact figure, John!!!GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
(John) how can you tell exactly what you are observing
|
||
|
from that distance? how large are the craft?
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Answer to first ?: through binoculars,camera but
|
||
|
actual shape(s) are Lights with shape & there are
|
||
|
many variation...Our team is not totally positive
|
||
|
if there is anything else besides the lights we
|
||
|
see at dusk & nighttime. There is one daylight
|
||
|
picture that is totally different from the craft
|
||
|
we see at night...as far as sizes, from 50 feet
|
||
|
wide & up. GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Randy) Thanks Ted....I have to check out in a few
|
||
|
minutes, but just wanted to mention that I will
|
||
|
check the current generation sat data on this area
|
||
|
during the week, and let everybody know next week
|
||
|
if any of the digital stuff shown anything like
|
||
|
Neil describes in the area of Niagra-on-the-Lake.
|
||
|
It sounds like he has come upon an older linear IR
|
||
|
camera image of the area...some of these types of
|
||
|
images have problems...I wish I had the U.S Geo
|
||
|
area numbers and would appreciate Neil providing
|
||
|
those?>??
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Randy 1977
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Randy) Does Neil have coordinates or U.S. Geo numbers???
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) The U.S. Geo might refer you to the public
|
||
|
library...how does it go...roand & round the
|
||
|
uokjukmkl if you know what I mean!!!GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) How about ther numbers Neil? GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Randy) I don't have that problem, Neil!!
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Public Library should provide recent #'S. I'm glad
|
||
|
someone does not have that problem...GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Am I lost or are we talking in riddles? GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) We are in the conference room...heh,heh!!GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Gerry) First, a question to Neil: What motions do you
|
||
|
observe? Vertical into and away from the horizon
|
||
|
or something else? Second, I used to work at UC
|
||
|
Berkeley Space Sciences Lab where ...Second is not
|
||
|
for you neil, first is. Second is, SSL had a large
|
||
|
remote sensing project, which could possibly have
|
||
|
relevant photos. Also know some people on the SETI
|
||
|
project at Ames who might be friendly enough to
|
||
|
look up whatever info on these photos might exist
|
||
|
there. Any feeling about whether it would be
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
worthwhile renewing old contacts over this?ga
|
||
|
anybody
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) YES!!!
|
||
|
|
||
|
(DBC) definitely gerry.
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Gerry) Ok, I will do so.ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Leave me E-Mail on results,if possible. There are
|
||
|
many variations to flight of these craft...e.g.-
|
||
|
leaf falling effect swirling,from direction to
|
||
|
direction you name it...especially with using
|
||
|
color infrared slide film...it does wonders!!!GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Joe) Two quickies, first, I do not understand the
|
||
|
magazine part of the discussion. second, are the
|
||
|
photos being published?
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Which photos:the IR phoros about the structure of
|
||
|
ufos..GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Joe) your photos
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) YES. Some have been previously published in local
|
||
|
area newspapers, but a book will be released in
|
||
|
the early 1990's. GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(John) neil, i think that joe was asking aboout the
|
||
|
magazine that you mentioned last week will you at
|
||
|
least tell me if it is a nationwide publication or
|
||
|
is it some regional or local type of publication i
|
||
|
still do not understand why you withold its name
|
||
|
from us, publicly.
|
||
|
|
||
|
(DBC) More clues Neil.ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Weren't you the one earlier that mentioned the
|
||
|
name of a publication??? Keep it to yourself!GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(DBC) yes.ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Yes!!!...
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Which edition? GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) A different way of saying it!!! 1977
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Which page. GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) All the Great Lakes!!!
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) I guess that lets the cat out of the bag! GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) In a different perspective, I might say!!!GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) DO all editions subsequent to 1977 have it or just
|
||
|
that year? GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Just that year at excellent quality!!!
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) You heard it first here Folks! GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(John) now i want neil to again describe exactly what to
|
||
|
look for in the magazine photo.ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) A long structure under the lake coming from
|
||
|
Torontos east end, under the lake! You can't miss
|
||
|
it!!!GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(John) ok i'll check
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) TED! Could you please leave me mail with your home
|
||
|
#.GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Sure Be gald to. I will be gone tommorrow but
|
||
|
will be at work on Tuesday. The Wed I will be in
|
||
|
Ann ARbor but back Thurs. I will leave number in
|
||
|
EMAIL. GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) When do you feel you will get off of here,
|
||
|
tonight???GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Shortly. GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Like 10 Min. GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) If possible, Toight.GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) It's busy now. GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(DBC) I was going to ask Neil about his abduction
|
||
|
studies, but perhaps its getting too late to get
|
||
|
into that.ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Well, The abduction case correlate with Lake
|
||
|
Ontario & Erie, but it is a little late this
|
||
|
evening to start, I feel!!!GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(DBC) how about next week?ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Good Idea! GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) As a part of the conference, sure
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) Can you make it next week Neil GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) I like to give other people a chance to talk,
|
||
|
also! Next Week, it is!!!GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) GREAT, see you all then I must be logging off now.
|
||
|
Nite All. GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(John) nite guysnite
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Joe) goodnight
|
||
|
|
||
|
(DBC) nite Ted, Nite all.
|
||
|
|
||
|
(John) nite guys
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) Ted, you will hear from me shortly!......and John,
|
||
|
thanks for the E-Mail. Greatly appreciated!!!nite
|
||
|
all.GA
|
||
|
|
||
|
(DBC) nite Neil
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) nite dbc
|
||
|
|
||
|
(John) nitenite
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Gerry) good night
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Neil) exiting...........
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
|
||
|
*********************************************************************
|
||
|
* -------->>> THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo <<<------- *
|
||
|
*********************************************************************
|