755 lines
30 KiB
Plaintext
755 lines
30 KiB
Plaintext
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SUBJECT: COMPUSERVE CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT 11/08/87 FILE: UFO3218
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COMPUSERVE CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT
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The following conference took place in the CompuServe Convention Center on
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Sunday, November 8th, 1987. Billed as a discussion of the UFO controversy as it
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manifested itself in 1987, the conference featured noted researchers Bruce
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Maccabee and Phil Imbrogno. The host and moderator was Jim Speiser of ParaNet,
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assisted by Georgia Griffith of the CompuServe Issues Forum, which sponsors
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weekly discussions of paranormal issues.
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-----------------------------
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8:00:00PM EST Sunday, November 8, 1987
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% Conference has begun
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(Jim Speiser) OK, first, thank you all for joining us for this very important
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and timely conference.
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(bruce maccabee) I have a few announcements tomake at the beginning
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(Jim Speiser) OK, let me introduce you first, Bruce...
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(Jim Speiser) Dr. Bruce Maccabee is with us, from Maryland....
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(Jim Speiser) he is an optical physicist with the U. S. Navy and...
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(Jim Speiser) a long time UFO researcher. Joining us from Connecticut....
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(Jim Speiser) is Phil Imbrogno, an astronomer and co-author of the recently...
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(Jim Speiser) published NIGHT SIEGE (Ballantine), about the Hudson Valley...
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(Jim Speiser) UFO Sightings. Dr. Maccabee, you had some opening statements? GA
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(bruce maccabee) Thank you. First, a poll: who out there saw the recent
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Geraldo Rivera show? Second, MJ-12 is not dead. Third, rush out and buy
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your December OMNI as soon as possible and get an
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article on abductions and a questionnaire from Budd Hopkins to see whether
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or not you have become part of an unearthly experiment. Finally,
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as H. Phil Klass (H stands for "humerous") would say, this is like long
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distance sex with a robot.
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(Jim Speiser) OK....next, Phil Imbrogno, any opening statements?
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(phil) I saw the show Bruce..
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(phil) it was great, I was asked to also appear on....
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(phil) the show,but declined. I met with Budd Hopkins..
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(phil) today and I suggest that everyone get out...
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(phil) and get the Dec. issue of OMNI.
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(phil) Getting back...
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(phil) Sightings of the UFO continue as recent as of Oct 29 GA
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(bruce maccabee) How's your book doing, Phil?
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(phil) Very well.
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(Jim Speiser) OK, the floor is open for questions.
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(bruce maccabee) Must be everyone is speechless
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(Jim Speiser) I must not be doing it right, has anyone got a question?
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(phil) Jim the omega conf. went very well
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(Georgia) hold on a minute
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(Georgia) we will have questions but jim
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(Georgia) relinquished...
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% Moderator recognizes queue #1
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Tom Garber <7>
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(Jim Speiser) Yes, I am turning over moderation to you, since I can't get it
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to work.
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(Tom Garber) What is the latest information about the Soccorro New Mexico
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sighting?
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(bruce maccabee) Shall I answer?
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(phil) ga
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(Tom Garber) please
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(bruce maccabee) Socorro, NM, April 24, 1964...Lonnie Zamorra, Police Officer
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(bruce maccabee) saw a landed object and two beings. It took off and no one
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else on the police force
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(bruce maccabee) saw it. Subsequently other witnesses MAY have been
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located...not sure on this. Air Force investigated in depth
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and concluded not
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(bruce maccabee) a hoax (Hector Quintanilla, Project Blue Book chief
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(bruce maccabee) at the time couldn't figure this one out
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(bruce maccabee) and admitted same to the CIA, of all people). Anyway, the
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most recent I have seen was a newspaper
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(bruce maccabee) article three years ago on the 20th anniversary in which
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explanations offered by the skeptics (especially H.P.K...remember, H
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(bruce maccabee) stands for "humorous") are faulty: no hoax or
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(bruce maccabee) collusion between Zamorra and the
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(bruce maccabee) mayor to bring tourist trade to the
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(bruce maccabee) area. I think Zamorra saw a TRUFO... a TRue UFO.
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(bruce maccabee) ga
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(Jim Speiser) Thanks, Bruce....
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(Jim Speiser) By the way, I should mention that with me here in Colorado....
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(Jim Speiser) is Chris Lambright, John Lear, John Andrews, Tom Adams, and
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other...
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(Jim Speiser) anomaly researchers...Chris just yesterday visited Lonnie Zamora.
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(Jim Speiser) Georgia, I still dont have control.
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(bruce maccabee) Tell us more...about Lonnie. ga
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(Georgia) i do. just say next.
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(Jim Speiser) Very nice guy, very cordial, they talked....
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(Jim Speiser) and Lonnie gave him the definitive word on the insignia, and
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Chris believes it.
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(Jim Speiser) OK, next?
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% Moderator recognizes queue #2
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ParaNet Rep Steve G <6>
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(ParaNet Rep Steve G) Good evening to our distingushed guests . . .
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(ParaNet Rep Steve G) I would like to make a note that we at ParaNet have
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always taken . . .
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(ParaNet Rep Steve G) a very truly skeptical line on UFOlogy, not by . . .
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(ParaNet Rep Steve G) demeaning or dismissing (like HPK), but by investigating
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and asking . . .
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(ParaNet Rep Steve G) (as I now wish to do!) Does anyone know where (and when)
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the rest of
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(ParaNet Rep Steve G) the Majestic -12 documents are, . . .
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(ParaNet Rep Steve G) and why they still haven't been released? ga
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(phil) bruce?
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(bruce maccabee) sounds good to me. As far as MJ-12 documents are concerned we
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only have what some insider has been able to smuggle out. Don't know
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(bruce maccabee) know where the rest are. Not released as yet
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(bruce maccabee) perhaps because they are tooo
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(bruce maccabee) hard to get or too hot. Anyway, Bill
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(bruce maccabee) Moore has more information which I think
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(bruce maccabee) he will release, but I don't think he
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(bruce maccabee) has any other MJ-12 documents.ga
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(Jim Speiser) next
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(ParaNet Rep Steve G) Thank you, Dr. Maccabee.
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% Moderator recognizes queue #3
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Dale B. Wedge <4>
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(Dale B. Wedge) OK...I have two questions that I would like to throw out...
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(Dale B. Wedge) together...and then have Bruce and Phil respond...
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(Dale B. Wedge) Bruce, is there more to the MJ-12 than Doty, Richard...
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(Dale B. Wedge) and have you seen the religious(?) tapes that Moore...
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(Dale B. Wedge) has dealing with his informants...
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(Dale B. Wedge) and for Phil...
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(Dale B. Wedge) Klass said that when he contacted the FAA, the sightings...
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(Dale B. Wedge) stopped...have you told him that they haven't (hahaha)....
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(Dale B. Wedge) I am wondering why the Power Plant (Indian Point) did not
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(Dale B. Wedge) declare an Unusual Event, mandated by law for the...
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(Dale B. Wedge) overflight?ga
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(bruce maccabee) go Phil
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(phil) about klass and the FAA...
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(phil) I haven't told him as of yet...
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(phil) I am saving it for a tv debate in I hope the near future...
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(phil) Regarding Indian point....
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(phil) The NRC came in and took all documents..
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(phil) The commander told all his people that the sighting is regarded as never
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taking place
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(Jim Speiser) GA, Bruce
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(bruce maccabee) OK. The original Richard C. Doty is not the
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(bruce maccabee) main source of info...probably an intermediary. However, I
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have been informed
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(bruce maccabee) that there is a NEW R.C. Doty at Kirtland AFB. Have they
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stuck in a "doppelganger?"ga
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(Jim Speiser) As an aside, Bruce....
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(Jim Speiser) Edwards mentioned to both me and Chris Lambright that the new
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(Jim Speiser) Doty is the old Doty, definitely. Moore says otherwise,
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(Jim Speiser) however....next please?
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% Moderator recognizes queue #5
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Melody <13>
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(Melody) Good Evening, gentlemen. Just an interested neophyte here. Could you
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(Melody) please discuss some of the details covered on Geraldo Rivera show.
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(Jim Speiser) Bruce? Anything you can add to the show? GA
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(Melody) I was not watching that day. Also,
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(Melody) could you discuss what the MJ-12 documents contain so far?
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(Jim Speiser) OK, Bruce, wanna take that one? GA
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(bruce maccabee) OK. On the Geraldo show, I am. On the Geraldo show there
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were four abductees and myself and Budd. The
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(bruce maccabee) abductees came off as very credible,
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(bruce maccabee) ordinary people, as they almost always do. I supplied some
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historical background
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(bruce maccabee) of sightings to provide a context for
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(bruce maccabee) connecting the abduction experience with
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(bruce maccabee) UFO sightings. Basically, most abductions begin and end with
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standard "plain vanilla" type UFO sightings
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(bruce maccabee) (lights at night, craft like object, etc.) As Budd pointed
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out, they are not all single witness reports: he has some
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(bruce maccabee) multiple abductions. He forgot to mention that there are
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(bruce maccabee) some multiple witness abductions in which
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(bruce maccabee) witnesses to the event have not been
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(bruce maccabee) abducted but have seen what has happend to some other
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person(s). As far as MJ-12 documents are concerned, last spring
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(bruce maccabee) a document popped up in Britain and then here in the USA (From
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Timothy Good in Britain and Bill Moore in the USA... we don't know
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(bruce maccabee) where Good got his copy). The document purports to be a
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briefing of President Eisenhower
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(bruce maccabee) just after he was elected (i.e., President-Elect) on Nov 18,
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1952. It says that a top level group of 12 men, including top Air Force,
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(bruce maccabee) Army, Navy military people and civilian scientists have run a
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project called OPERATION MAJESTIC since Sept. 1947.
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(bruce maccabee) OPERATION MAJESTIC was ostensibly set up
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(bruce maccabee) by President Truman to investigate the debris/etc. from
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(bruce maccabee) a crashed object found near Roswell, NM on July 8 (or so)
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1947. The MJ-12 document says that initial analyses showed the
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(bruce maccabee) debris obtained was from a small craft, probably a short range
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craft since there
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(bruce maccabee) were no obvious provisions. It also says that bodies were
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found and a term was coined by biopyhysicist Detlev Bronk for these
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(bruce maccabee) bodies: Extraterrestrial Biological Entities, or EBEs. It
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was said by Bronk (according to the
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(Jim Speiser) Bruce, if I can interrupt, we have the MJ-12 documents online
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(Jim Speiser) here...it may be better to just summarize from here, OK?
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(bruce maccabee) document) that they were human like but have obviously
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followed a different line of development. Since you have the documents
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(bruce maccabee) online you can get a complete version. Naturally
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(bruce maccabee) questions as to authenticity have
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(bruce maccabee) arisen. These are largely an attack of "form
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(bruce maccabee) over substance." For example, because a certain date format
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in the
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(bruce maccabee) document is not standard, therefore "it is a hoax." I should
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point
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(bruce maccabee) out that the CONTENT of the document is very plausible based
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on the Roswell crash which VERY PROBABLY DID OCCUR although we
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(bruce maccabee) don't yet know all the details. (See Bill Moore's articles in
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the MUFON journal and his book "THE ROSWELL INCIDENT." ga
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(Jim Speiser) Thanks, Bruce...Melody,...
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(Jim Speiser) those documents can be seen in their entirety...
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(Jim Speiser) in the ISSUES forum data library 10, scan on keyword MAJESTIC...
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(Jim Speiser) next question?
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% Moderator recognizes queue #6
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Ted Markley <8>
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(Jim Speiser) GA Ted
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(Ted Markley) This question is for Phil. In "Night Siege" you mentioned
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several cases...
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(Ted Markley) where abductions seem to be indicated. Also, at the Brewster
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meeting a few...
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(Ted Markley) months ago, you mentioned that many sightings included "missing
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time"...
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(Ted Markley) experiences. Is anyone investigating these further? Can we
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expect a book...
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(Ted Markley) or published report on the abduction content of the Hudson
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(Ted Markley) Valley incidents? GA
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(phil) There are quite a few missing time...
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(phil) cases,they are being looked into by myself and Budd Hopkins....
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(phil) We get a good amount of data 15 or so similar cases..
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(phil) I expect to include them in a written report..
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(phil) of some sort...
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(phil) I have no plans to publish another book at this moment ga
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(Jim Speiser) Before I get to the next...
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(Jim Speiser) questioner, just a brief one for both of you...
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(Jim Speiser) This has been one of the wildest UFO years in memory....
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(Jim Speiser) JAL Alaska, Shirley McLaine, Communion, Intruders, MJ-12, Night
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Siege....
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(Jim Speiser) Question: has this been a *GOOD* year for UFOs? Phil, then Bruce.
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(Shirley MacLain) Hi Jim
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(phil) It has I think in the fact that..
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(phil) more people have looked at the UFO phenomenon.
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(phil) But...
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(phil) Are many of the recent works about contact really that well documented?
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(phil) Ga
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(Jim Speiser) Bruce?
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(bruce maccabee) Has this been a good year for UFOs? Well, as you pointed out
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there was the JAL sighting and then the MJ-12 stuff, Shirly MacLaine
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(bruce maccabee) MacLaine's movie at the start of the year (hi Shirley) and
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most recently about
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(bruce maccabee) a month's worth of sightings in south-western Virginia. Also,
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COMMUNION and INTRUDERS (and to a lesser extent LIGHT YEARS).
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(bruce maccabee) These events have all served to sensitize the population. I
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would venture a
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(bruce maccabee) guess that the media interest this year
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(bruce maccabee) has been double or triple that of recent
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(bruce maccabee) years. So, I guesss, indeed, it has been a good year. At the
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end of the MUFON conference LAST year (1986) at the end of my
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(bruce maccabee) speech I announced to the crowd that the 1987 conference would
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(bruce maccabee) be in D.C. I closed my speech with the "rallying
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(bruce maccabee) cry" FORTY YEARS IS LONG ENOUGH. perhaps that had some
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effect.ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) I think it may have...next?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
% Moderator recognizes queue #7
|
|||
|
|
BOB ESPOSITO,ALASKA <2>
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(BOB ESPOSITO,ALASKA) I'M WONDERING IF EITHER OF THE GUESTS HAS
|
|||
|
|
DONE RESEARCH ON THE UFO
|
|||
|
|
(BOB ESPOSITO,ALASKA) SIGHTINGS IN ALASKA. IF SO,
|
|||
|
|
(BOB ESPOSITO,ALASKA) WHAT ARE YOUR OPINIONS/CONCLUSIONS? THANKS.
|
|||
|
|
(BOB ESPOSITO,ALASKA) GA
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) I can answer?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(phil) sure
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Georgia) ga bruce.
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) With the help of the Fund for UFO Research I was able to get
|
|||
|
|
the complete set of FAA material on the ALASKA JAPAN
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) AIRLINE JET sighting. I studied all the material and wrote
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) an article which takes up the whole March/April issue of the
|
|||
|
|
INTERNATIONAL UFO REPORTER put out by the Center for UFO Studies. You can
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) get a copy from the center. (I assume the address is online)
|
|||
|
|
Basically I found that the explanations offered
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) by the skeptics did not hold water under
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) analysis. The JAL sighting definitaly involved at least two
|
|||
|
|
TRUFOs. Most people don't know that there were other Alaska
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) sightings as well. Radar-only from a commercial jet: twice
|
|||
|
|
this happened last spring: a jet picked up on its radar an object
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) traveling several thousand
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) miles an hour. Also, I have recently learned
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) that Alaskan natives do act as "scouts" for the military had
|
|||
|
|
several GROUND VISUAL MULTIPLE WITNESS sightings of large
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) oddly lighted objects last January and Feb. One ground
|
|||
|
|
sighting was in the same area as one of the radar sightings I mentioned,
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) and differing by only a day. Appears that there was a
|
|||
|
|
"miniflap" over Alaska last winter. ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Next please
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
% Moderator recognizes queue #8
|
|||
|
|
WENDY <18>
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) Wendy is asleep
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) GA Wendy
|
|||
|
|
(WENDY) Sorry. I just wanted to ask everyone to please carriage
|
|||
|
|
(WENDY) return sooner so we could get the full sentences. Thanks!
|
|||
|
|
(WENDY) ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Georgia) yes lines too long bruce.
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) OK, will do...please keep your lines under 80 chars, guys.
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) No other question, Wendy?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(WENDY) Some folks here on Maui have seen these lights and triangles
|
|||
|
|
(WENDY) on top of one of the mountains on the Big Island. When they
|
|||
|
|
(WENDY) called the weather service they were told it was laser
|
|||
|
|
(WENDY) experiments but they thought and felt it was UFO. Do
|
|||
|
|
(WENDY) you know anything about that?
|
|||
|
|
(WENDY) ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(phil) I might have info..
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) GA Phil
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(phil) I received a few letters...
|
|||
|
|
(phil) That talked about a triangular formation of lights over a number of
|
|||
|
|
areas out there...
|
|||
|
|
(phil) The letters were brief,but sightings were as recent as October 15 Ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) can I say something?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Further, a hawaiian....
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) UFO researcher named Kalani Hanohano was up here for a while
|
|||
|
|
today...
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) he confirmed some kind of recent UFO activity on Molokai, I
|
|||
|
|
believe.
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) OK, Next?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) can I say something?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Georgia) ok bruce.
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Yes, Bruce, GA. Questioner, hold up, please
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) There are laser experiments done from the top of a mountain on
|
|||
|
|
MAUI. However, they would be done in clear weather. Therefore,
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) if the weather service says it was a laser
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) beam on a cloud, forget it.
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Ha! OK, next please
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
% Moderator recognizes queue #9
|
|||
|
|
Dale B. Wedge <4>
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) Phil, I do offsite emergency planning around a nuclear power
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) plant. I have given Jim Speiser some info for you, but I would
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) really like to write to you and get something on that aspect of
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) your book. Abductions don't produce documents, the power
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) plants and the NRC do...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) secondly...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) Bruce...I know how to do FOIA, but have tried to contact
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) military personnel. some ex-NSA - relative - and was told that
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) they would have to report me if I contined to ask questions...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) is there a correct way to approach an ex-government...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) intelligence person without getting into trouble?
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Phil first
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(phil) Please write to me...
|
|||
|
|
(phil) I am still working on the indian point..
|
|||
|
|
(phil) sightings.. I have made some very strong contacts in Nuclear security
|
|||
|
|
who inform me that the entire incident was documented...
|
|||
|
|
(phil) I expect something big in the next few months ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) I don't know any special way of contacting
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) retired military or "ex-military" people except CAREFULLY.
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) As for FOIPA, you are well within your
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) right to ask for NRC documents (or any
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) other documents). If you get harassed
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) because of your OUTSIDE ACTIVITIES, take it up with
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) the civil liberties union. There are two
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) people I know who work for the military
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) and who have been given troubles at work
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) as a result of their UFO activities. Neither has been
|
|||
|
|
fired....yet.ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) If I may...
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) John Andrews is here, and says that ....
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) there is no legitimate reason for you as a civilian to be....
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) "hassled" or "reported" simply for asking questions of anyone,
|
|||
|
|
even NSA....
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) where you have to be careful is in offering money or other
|
|||
|
|
compensation...
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) TRUE!
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) You had another ?, Dale, then we move on. GA
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) OK...I was told (boldly) that...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) the NSA has a policy of their ex people to have them report...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) any inquiries up to 5 years after separation of service...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) and that the NSA or (?) monitors calls, etc...and that the
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) ex-official can get in trouble for not reporting...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) second...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) Phil, leave your address to 75376.1620
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) OK, next please?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
% Moderator recognizes queue #11
|
|||
|
|
Ted Markley <8>
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) A few weeks ago there was a news article regarding sightings in
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) Virginia that was explained as an in-flight refueling operation.
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) Then I seem to remember reading about more sightings in western
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) PA that paralleled those in Hudson Valley. I thought I read that
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) a news release was to take place last week, but it never
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) surfaced. Did I read that here on Compuserve, or was it Paranet?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) It was on ParaNet. Don't know what happened, but have been
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) assured by Stan Gordon that it is going to be released. Keep
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) your eyes peeled. Phil, any insights on the Virginia sightings?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(phil) You probably know as much as me..
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) "as much as I.."
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(phil) It seems very strange that an explanation surfaced quite a bit of time
|
|||
|
|
after the sightings ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Do you buy the "refueling" explanation?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) TV stations in the DC area have done several short stories on
|
|||
|
|
the sightings. Not very good investigating. Police officer
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) witnesses talk about
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) large, close objects. Don't buy
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) refueling.
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) OK, one more, then we throw it open, I guess. Next
|
|||
|
|
(Georgia) two now
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
% Moderator recognizes queue #12
|
|||
|
|
WENDY <18>
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(WENDY) Can someone explain what FOIA mean?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Bruce?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) FREEDOM OF INFORMATION AND PRIVACY ACT (FOIPA) of 1976 (?)
|
|||
|
|
says anyone has the right to
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) ask the government or governmental
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) agencies for information AND (this is the big point) THEY HAVE
|
|||
|
|
TO RESPOND in a reasonable time (weeks).
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) Moreover, they must release info unless
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) they can show cause why it should not be
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) released. However, classified info does
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) not come under the FOIPA. Therefore
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) in many cases documents have been released
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) with portions, sometime
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) sizeable portions, blacked out.
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Georgia) bruce
|
|||
|
|
(Georgia) I'd like to tell you
|
|||
|
|
(Georgia) two years ago, one of the Sysops
|
|||
|
|
(Georgia) was investigated, followed and harassed
|
|||
|
|
(Georgia) by CIA for asking for some science info,
|
|||
|
|
(Georgia) I've forgotten the name of the big gov't concern...
|
|||
|
|
(Georgia) let's open discussion. maybe someone here knows that name...
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
% Discussion period beginning
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Bob?
|
|||
|
|
(BOB ESPOSITO,ALASKA) HAS EITHER OF THE GUESTS OR ANYONE IN THE AUDIENCE HAD
|
|||
|
|
(BOB ESPOSITO,ALASKA) PERSONAL CONTACT WITH A UFO OR AN EXTRATERRESTRIAL??
|
|||
|
|
(BOB ESPOSITO,ALASKA) IF SO, COULD YOU SUPPLY A BRIEF DESCRIPTION? THANK YOU.
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(bruce maccabee) No.
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) NO
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) no
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) No
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Scot) no
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(mary) no
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Bob, have you?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(BOB ESPOSITO,ALASKA) NO, JIM.
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) OK, Ted?
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) During the Brewster meeting there was a drive to sign up members
|
|||
|
|
for...
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) a new group called "Contact". The purpose of the organization is
|
|||
|
|
to explore..
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) the abduction phenomenon and help those who have undergone the
|
|||
|
|
terrifying...
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) and humiliating experience. I was one who not only signed up but
|
|||
|
|
bought...
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) one of the nifty sweatshirts. Can anyone report on the status of
|
|||
|
|
(Ted Markley) this group? GA
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(phil) I can..
|
|||
|
|
(phil) Contact got so many applications that...
|
|||
|
|
(phil) Peter Gersten decided to hold back on the organization...
|
|||
|
|
(phil) I can tell you that a major meeting is being planned involving all
|
|||
|
|
contact members..
|
|||
|
|
(phil) in the very near future ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Dale?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Melody) Jim, is ParaNet part of Compuserve?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Melody, no, not really, its a separate organization, but we use
|
|||
|
|
CIS frequently.
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Dale, you had a Q? Then Dan, then Melody, then Ted.
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) Larry Warren (Art Wallace) made a statement at the 4
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) sorry, 40th year conference about groups working together...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) in your opinion, Phil and Bruce...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) do you see a time that FUFOR, APRO(Defunct?), MUFON and
|
|||
|
|
others...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) will get together, put their stuff on the table, and let...
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) all investigate instead of a selected few?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(phil) can I go
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) FOR SOME REASON MY COMPUTER LOCKED UP SO I MISSED SOME STUFF
|
|||
|
|
GETTING BACK ON.
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(phil) I thought that it was coming about...
|
|||
|
|
(phil) until mj-12..
|
|||
|
|
(phil) This document divided many people in the ufo field ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Bruce, the question is...
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) do you see any move towards unifying the different orgs?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) Not especially. MUFON and CUFOS will stay separate. I expect
|
|||
|
|
others will also. However, although it is true that the MJ-12
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) document has caused some "pain," we
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) must not lose sight of the fact that the
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) OPEN RECORD of FORTY YEARS OF SIGHTINGS
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) is AVAILABLE TO ALL WHO WISH TO LOOK
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) (and see). There is no "division" here. Those who read the
|
|||
|
|
open record and
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) understand will not be surprised at what
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) the "CLOSED RECORD" (e.g., MJ-12 documents) may say, ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) OK, sorry Dale, gotta move on. Dan?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(DAN,N.J.) IS THERE ANY HARD EVIDENCE, SHIP PARTS,BODIES,SUSPECTED GOVT.
|
|||
|
|
SUPRESSION?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Who wants to take that one?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Dale B. Wedge) no,no,no,yes
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) Roswell crash investigation involves
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) first hand witnesses still living to actual
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) material retrieved. This is as
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) close as we can get to "hard evidence" if you IGNORE
|
|||
|
|
PHOTOGRAPHS, LANDING TRACES, etc. But
|
|||
|
|
(BRUCE MACCABEE) who really thinks we should ignore them? ga
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(DAN,N.J.) HOW CAN I GET A COPY OF THE MJ-12 DOCUMENTS?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Jim Speiser) Dan, we can prove govt. suppression, I think. Melody? GA
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
|
|
(Melody) Is there a list of addresses for MUFON, ParaNet, etc. for interested
|
|||
|
|
parties?
|
|||
|
|
|
|||
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(Jim Speiser) (Dan> Issues forum, DL 10, BRO /KEY: MJ12
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(DAN,N.J.) 10-4
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(Jim Speiser) Can you repeat, Melody? Lost in the line noise.
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(Melody) Is there a list of addresses for MUFON, ParaNet, etc. for interested
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parties?
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(Jim Speiser) ParaNet is a modem service: 602-837-0062, 300/1200/2400....
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(Jim Speiser) Bruce is director of the Fund for UFO Research, BRuce, can you...
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(Jim Speiser) give the address for that?
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(BRUCE MACCABEE) FUND FOR UFO RESEARCH, BOX 277, MT. RAINIER, MD 20712
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(Jim Speiser) OK, Ted? Then Scot.
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(Ted Markley) Can anyone report on the progress that CAUS has made (or IS
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making or ABOUT...
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(Ted Markley) to make) on it's suit against Uncle Sam regarding with holding
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information...
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(Ted Markley) on UFO's contrary to the FOIA? GA
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(Scot) What is CAUS?
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(BRUCE MACCABEE) Don't know how CAUS...CITIZENS AGAINST
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(BRUCE MACCABEE) UFO SECRECY IS DOING.ga
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(Ted Markley) Phil can you help?
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(Jim Speiser) Oh, sorry, Citizens Against UFO Secrecy, headed by...
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(Jim Speiser) Barry Greenwood. Very good group. GA
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(Ted Markley) Guess Not.
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(Ted Markley) Next
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(Jim Speiser) Ok, Scot?
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(Scot) Georgia, a ways back you spoke about one of the sysops being harassed...
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(Scot) by the CIA. What sort of harassment took place and what was the
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(Scot) nature of the information he/she was trying to look into?
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(Georgia) i remembered it was FBI not CIA,
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(Georgia) but he asked (oh radon or something like that)...
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(Georgia) he just wanted to know what they made - nothing big...
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(Georgia) they investigated his credit, citizenship, followed his family,
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(Georgia) and he said he never did find out. it' was Michael Fitzgerald,
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(Georgia) no longer with us. I suggested he ask again! ga
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(Scot) Who is "they"?
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(Georgia) fbi.
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(Georgia) ga
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(Jim Speiser) OK...
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(Jim Speiser) incidentally, Phil Imbrogno's book is NIGHT SIEGE, published by
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Ballantine...
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(Jim Speiser) its the best $6.95 you'll spend,....
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(Jim Speiser) and if you write the Fund, ask for their order form of products.
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Dan?
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(DAN,N.J.) COULD YOU TELL ME MORE ABOUT ROSWELL?
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(DAN,N.J.) WHERE COULD I FIND INFO?
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(Jim Speiser) Theres a lot to it, Dan. Read The Roswell Incident by Bill Moore.
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(DAN,N.J.) THANX
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(phil) comment
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(Jim Speiser) yes, Phil
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(phil) Well Alan Hynek felt there was nothing to Roswell.
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(Jim Speiser) Now here's where the two big time Ufologists fight it out. GA
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(Georgia) isn't he dead?
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(Jim Speiser) Yes, Georgia, Allen died in 1986.
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(BRUCE MACCABEE) Roswell info is in MUFON Symposia proceedings of the last
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several years (1986 and back). Hynek didn't talk to the half dozen first
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(BRUCE MACCABEE) hand witnesses , the two doezon second hand witnesses and the
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60 or so supplementary witneses
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(DAN,N.J.) WILL THERE BE ANOTHER CONF. UPCOMING????
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(Jim Speiser) Dan, we're going to do this more often....
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(phil) comment
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(Jim Speiser) I think the next time will be on cattle mutilation. Right here
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(Jim Speiser) we have Tom Adams, Linda Howe, and Dave Perkins. GA Phil
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(Jim Speiser) Phil you had a comment, please ignore us and go ahead.
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(phil) I just wanted to say...
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(phil) I was just relating what allan told me..a few years ago...
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(phil) I actually believe something did take place ga
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(BRUCE MACCABEE) how much longer does this convention last? it's past ten. ga
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(Jim Speiser) OK, we have to wind it down...
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(DAN,N.J.) GOOD LUCK PEOPLE, AND MAY YOU FIND THE FORCE.
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(Georgia) shall i end?
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(Jim Speiser) anyone who wishes to stay, can, but I have to go too. Thank you
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VERY much,
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(Jim Speiser) Bruce and Phil, for your patience and your good words. GA
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(BRUCE MACCABEE) THIS HAS BEEN A TRULY MAJESTIC CONFERENCE. ga
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% Discussion period ending
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% The conference has ended
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Thank you for attending
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(Jim Speiser) Bruce....was this as good as remote control sex with Phil Klass?
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(BRUCE MACCABEE) arrrghhh. perish the thought....
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Conference Logging Terminated: 22:30:29 EST
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Conference Logging Duration: 02:48:46
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*********************************************************************
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* -------->>> THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo <<<------- *
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*********************************************************************
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