textfiles/rpg/rating10.txt

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                     Results: Greyhawk Ratings
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          Compiled by: brooks@odie.ee.wits.ac.za (Goth)

[Note: This file is one section of the ratings posted on December 22, 1994 
to rec.games.frp.dnd; it is included in order to make the publically 
available ratings as complete as possible.]

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                          Points Ratings
                          ==============

In order for a product to appear on the points rating table, it must
have at least five votes. Products are listed in points order, from
highest to lowest.

     /-------------------------------------------------------\
     |                        - Key -                        |
     |                                                       |
     |  Score = the product's average rating                 |
     |  Low = the lowest rating anyone gave this product     |
     |  High = the highest rating anyone gave this product   |
     |  Voters = the number of people who rated the product  |
     \-------------------------------------------------------/

Note: Results for the 1st Edition modules are included in the results
summary for the 1st Edition AD&D products. Only the WG modules are
included here.

Product                                     Score  Low  High  Voters
-------                                     -----  ---  ----  ------
WGR4: The Marklands                          8.7    5    10      7
WGR5: Iuz the Evil                           8.3    5    10     10
City of Greyhawk                             8.1    4    10     12
World of Greyhawk Folio                      7.4    6     9      7
Greyhawk Adventures                          7.3    5     9     13
WGR6: The City of Skulls                     7.3    5    10     10
>From the Ashes                               7.2    2    10     15
WGR1: Greyhawk Ruins                         7.0    5    10     11
MC5: Greyhawk                                6.7    7    10     10
WGR2: Treasures of Greyhawk                  6.5    4     9     10
World of Greyhawk                            6.3    2    10     22
WGR3: Rary the Traitor                       6.2    3     8      9
Wars                                         4.4    2     6     10

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                             Comments
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This next bit is a selection of comments people have sent in. I've
removed some remarks which were very similar, especially for products
which provoked large quantities of comment and I've done some minor
editing for grammar and spelling. Other than that, this is how they
were sent in.

Core Material and General Comments
----------------------------------
Greyhawk was always kind of flat for me -- there never seemed much to
it, but it's a good basis for making your own campaign world. It has
lots of ideas, and a decent framework for knowing what's required.

Greyhawk isn't as detailed as Forgotten Realms New Edition, and has
less support, but it has a good medieval good vs evil open feeling
about it. When I mean open, I mean it has MANY possibilities.

I've grown up with Greyhawk, and it's wide and wild enough to do
whatever you want in it. I've avoided From the Ashes because of $$$
and I wanted to keep the wide open-eyed wonder about me when I think
of Oerth.

Greyhawk was the first, and a sentimental favorite, but wasn't
supported or built upon much and was really kind of bland in many
places as a result. From the Ashes took this standard-issue world
that hadn't been getting proper support, and gave it real weight
and a new lease on life. A truly excellent work, especially if one
adds Sargent's subsequent efforts, "The Marklands" and "Iuz the
Evil."

First of all, i haven't bought much of the newer stuff for the "new
and improved" Greyhawk creation that TSR has just recently put to a
well deserved death. It is a shame that the structure of Greyhawk
wasn't left alone and that TSR couldn't just provide more adventures
for said structure -- instead they create a whole new world to place
their silly adventures in...

The original boxed set was very useful. It gave me an overall world
to place my small kingdom in, which until that point was worldless.
Most of the spells in the 1st Edition PHB were based on creations of
wizards who were suppose to be living (or had lived) in the world of
Greyhawk and now we had an opportunity to see where they lived.
During my early years  my players and I had always made the comment
that we wish we could play in Greyhawk with Gygax as the DM, it would
have been so cool.

The hardcover was a bonus look into what could possibly be
accomplished with a lot of hard work and gave me a lot of incentive
to try and develop my own world better. I eventually gave up and
decided that I would instead learn the subtleties of Greyhawk in
which to better prepared for surprise teleportations of group of
players who suddenly decided they wanted to see what was in the
Jungles of Chult or the Valley of the Mage or...

There was a time when TSR hinted they were going to put Gygax's
Greyhawk Ruins into print in a module format and they kept saying it
would be out soon and then it arrived -- the module Greyhawk Castle.
What a total waste of my precious game money!!! I was totally
depressed that they would even publish such a thing!! but my friendly
store owner/insideman said cheer up because they'll put out the ruins
you're looking for, the ones that will make you dream and drool... I
had very little faith that after making such a big cheat as they did
with Greyhawk Castle that TSR could even recover some of my respect.
What they did instead was give me one of the best things I have ever
payed money for...

NOW the RUINS of GREYHAWK!!!  What a GREAT adventure!!! We started it
in the fall of 1989 and we just put the campaign on break last
February (1994). That's over 5 years with the same group of
characters in the same area (Greyhawk City, Greyhawk Ruins, and the
base town Zarnicus). Never before have I been able to keep the
players from getting the "urge to see what's on the other side of the
lake" syndrome. This module kept them incredibly interested
to see what was on "the next level".  Ask any of my players and
they'll let you know that they have had the most fun with this group
of characters and in this particular campaign. Don't get me wrong in
believing that I don't have other campaigns that I run occasionally,
I have at least three long running campaigns and a few that we play
now and then, but when we started Greyhawk Ruins we all sort of
silently agreed to put the others on hold, sort of a silent
consensus!!  We would still be playing the same campaign actively
today but two of the players had to move out of town to find work and
I myself have now moved to across the continent from the remainder of
my group to find work. If and when we get the group together we'll
certainly pick it back up and finish it (we have not even completed
half of it!!!) I think that TSR having only put this module out for
market for a short period of time has really boned the people who
missed it!!! I encourage any who can get their hands on it to do
so...

I liked it so much that I bought another one after it was out of
print for $30.00 and would have payed more if the dealer had known!!!

The City of Greyhawk boxed set was an _immense_ resource, especially
for those ever-so-difficult city campaings. It was very well thought
out, and very thorough.

>From the Ashes helps with the transision after the wars, if you're
continuing after them, and things went relatively similar to what
happens in "Wars". If things didn't go the same, it provides a lot of
ideas for possible plotlines/effects of the war.

Carl Sargent's work was uniformly excellent, some of the very best
material that TSR has ever put out. While the scope of "From the
Ashes" and accompanying space restrictions cramped his style a bit,
the result was still very good. For a real treat, though, I recommend
"The Marklands" and "Iuz the Evil." There Carl has enough room to
really shine -- and does. "City of Skulls" is also excellent, and
should be required reading for anyone who wants to incorporate a
truly evil realm into their campaign and do so vividly and
convincingly. In fact, Sargent may have been a little TOO good at
this.

The City of Greyhawk Boxed Set was a wider collaboration, and was
also very, very good. It was even an excellent value, with its
mini-adventures, vivid NPC personalities, and good "atmosphere" to
the city. My only complaint is the layout/map, which Gygax did ten
times better in his "Gord the Rogue" books; otherwise, a 10.

The Monstrous Compendium appendix has one of the best ratios of very
useful monsters to silly ones that I've seen in TSR's supplements.
The artwork was good but not great, though.

The Greyhawk adventures hardcover was a disappointment, and a
significant portion of it (deities and their clerical spheres) was
soon made useless by contradictory updates. In contrast to the
Forgotten Realms Handbook, this hardcover actually contained very
little information on the World of Greyhawk, and was mostly a
compendium of spells, monsters, and magic items.

"Greyhawk Wars" had an outstanding history of the Wars, but the game
was useless. The result was that a product which should be on every
Greyhawk gamer's shelf (the history) -- and could have been for $5-7
-- is not possessed by many players because they (rightly) didn't
want to spend the money on the game as well. Nice going, TSR.

Carl Sargent is a truly brilliant writer. I _love_ his stuff. He is
complete, consistent and true to the flavor of Greyhawk. All his
supplements are well worth the money.

The Greyhawk Wars was one of the worst TSR produducts I have ever
brought. Extremely low quality maps and little else. It promised so
much and gave so little.

The Greyhawk Adventures Hardcover is somewhat useful, and has a lot
of good ideas, especially with regard to weird and interesting
geographic areas. The new magic items and monsters seemed kinda
stupid, for the most part.

The City of Greyhawk boxed set is a well-done, highly detailed look 
into the City of Greyhawk. It's filled with NPCs, neat locations,
rules for how the city works... everything you need to detail the
city as extensively as needed. The only thing that could have made
this better was if Gygax himself had helped write it.

Other than the work by Gary Gygax, the newer works by Carl Sargent
are the best in quality and content IMEO. The Marklands, and Iuz the
Evil are great reference sources and have excellent maps that show
all that doesn't fit on the grand hex map! MY campaigns don't use the
GH Wars senario, and these books are still very much invaluable.

WGR Series
----------
Perhaps I'm judging "Rary the Traitor" unfairly, due to its contrast
with Sargent's work. Still, I thought that the central storyline
involving the scorpion-crown was insufficiently compelling for NPCs
of Rary and Robilar's stature. The culture of the local tribes could
also have been dealt with much better and more comprehensively, and
Rary's fortress was way below its potential. Add the fact that
important maps are MISSING from this supplement, and it represents a
shining example of why gamers are annoyed with TSR.

City of Skulls is possibly my favorite module published by TSR. It is
very intense, what with the you-have-to-get-in-and-out-damn-
quick-or-else-the-cavalry-is-coming (and what a cavalry!) attitude. 
TSR actually introduced a new system here that was workable, made
sense, and contributed to game play (the notoriety point system).
They get kudos in my book for it! (and not those silly little candy
bars, either!)

Rary the Traitor, although it opens up a whole new land, was somewhat
dissapointing because of the number of clusterf*cks made in the
production of the resource (pages left out, areas forgotten about in
the details). It also didn't really introduce anything new, or all
that interesting. Rary's tower is kinda munchkiny, but some good
adventure can be had in the surrounding deserts.

The WGR5 is one of the best sources I have ever seen from TSR and
other companies alike. In fact, I'll probably use it for Rolemaster,
and I have never done any such thing before.

The Greyhawk Ruins module is a triple dungeon that has the feel of
the "old" TSR modules to it. The place is filled with a wide variety
of monsters, treasures, traps... very impressive piece of work. I'd
buy any module by the same author, on principle alone.

WG Series
---------
If you can get past the silly plot and senseless traps, etc., there's
a fair-to-middling module hidden somewhere in Gargoyle.
Unfortunately, the party I was with at the time couldn't find it...
(but then, maybe it was 'cause we were in the Realms at the time we
were run through this one...)

WG7 was a hillarious riot! I loved each twisted level, each badly
concealed pun, each blatant rip-off. If only they realized why it was
so easy to spoof themselves...

WG9? Where is it? More space is taken up by monster descriptions and
PC sheets than story. Scanty material. If using the show _Gargoyles_
to rework it, you would get a lot more out of it.

WG4 has too many death saves for too many prizes. The wand of force
is totally unbalanced item.

The low level adventures in WG8 are ok, but later it gets too hard
too fast.

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                              The End
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