609 lines
33 KiB
Plaintext
609 lines
33 KiB
Plaintext
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LIST
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FILE ON
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MARGIN IS 80
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STATUS: ALL ALLOWED
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NUMBER OF LINES: 629
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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
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2 ********************** REMOVED 22 FEB 84 *******************
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3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System) Mike Day System operator
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4 ************************************************************
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5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION
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6 PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM.
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7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
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8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
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9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. As the system is
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10 privatly owned, I retain the right to remove any and all messages which
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11 I may find offensive. Because of the limited size of the system, it will be
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12 periodically purged of messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
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13 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out of the
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14 ENTER mode. The message is automatically stored. If after entering the
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15 message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to replace
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16 the line. To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
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17 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
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18 ************************************************************
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19
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20 Gary: It sounds like you have a rather common misconception regarding
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21 "non-profit" organizations. They CAN make money, they just can't distribute it
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22 as profits to stockholders/owners/etc.
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23 I wasn't aware of this myself, until I became treasurer of a local branch of a
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24 non-profit group.
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25
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26 Some people have been reading things into my msgs regarding religion.
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27 I suggest they re-read the msgs, this time WITHOUT making any assumptions about
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28 what I "mean" by what I wrote.
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29 I did NOT say that I don't believe in God, neither did I say that I
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30 do believe. I said I have doubts about organized religion. No more, no less.
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31
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32 Piper: I agree that some on this system do seem to display the attitude that
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33 you speak of, but very few have said so in as many words. As you can see from my
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34 above comments, they should be given the benefit of the doubt. I, myself, feel
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35 that all religions deserve equal respect. I do alter this "base level" based on
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36 12
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38 ______________________________________Leonard___________________________________
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39 "Ah, Piper, after that song I would dearly love to sing 'Men of Harlech'.
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40 I must apologize though, as I seem to have forgotten a few lines. Thusly, I
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41 shall instead sing an SCA song derived from it"
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42 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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43 Men of Reisling (words: Deirdre Muldomhnaigh, tune: Men of Harlech)
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44 Men of Reisling, stop your dreaming,
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45 Can't you hear the bastards scheming
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46 Overthrow of all of Reisling
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47 At your very door?
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48
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49 Men of Reisling, none to steady,
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50 On your feet and the ready;
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51 Even though it has been said ye
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52 Cannot find the floor.
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53
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54 Raise your glass and quaff it;
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55 Your nightshirt, you must doff it;
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56 Leave your thoughts beside her cot,
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57 But get your body off it!
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58
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59 Men of Reisling, arm for battle,
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60 They are stealing all your cattle,
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61 And your e'en more precious chattel:
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62 Your wenches and your beer!
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63
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64 Stagger on the fleeing foemen,
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65 Drunken knights and drunken yeomen,
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66 And some very drunken bowmen
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67 Tangled up in twine.
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68
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69 We'll pursue the foe and harry
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70 Any who should chance to tarry;
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71 Another day, they'll be more wary
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72 Who they rob of wine!
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73
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74 Reislings, do your duty;
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75 They're fleeing with their booty!
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76 Your wives you'll miss, but worse than this,
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77 Of wine the swine would loot ye!
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78
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79 Let them have the keeps and towers;
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80 We'll protect the casks and bowers--
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81 Castles fall, but nothing sours
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82 Loving and good wine!
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83 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~BARD~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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84
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85 mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm + - / * mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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86
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87 Special Note to The Mad Actor: I do sincerely regret the fact
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88 that my chosen designation causes the screen erase. It would
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89 seem to me that terminal programs should not act on valid
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90 ASCII characters in some special way. I changed the heading
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91 for this note to be sure you can read it.
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92
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93 Concerning your request for information on the floating
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94 hyper-space channel, I hardly ever whisper in the pines
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95 but perhaps we can devise some other means of exchange.
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96
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97 mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm The Mesolithic Mathematician mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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98
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99 ***********************************************************
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100
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101 Leonard: Being in social services, a former trustee of a
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102 church, and responsible for a tax exempt fund for the Mental
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103 Health Association I know more about non-profits than you
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104 appear to assume.
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105
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106 A lunar mining station would require a tremendous amount of
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107 start up capital. The General might be right. Perhaps the
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108 only way to get started would be through a non-profit, which,
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109 in practical terms, means depending on the government.
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110
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111 The problem with getting all your support from one source is
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112 that you lose the power to direct the project in the way you
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113 envision. The General is a man of vision. I fear the
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114 government would be less than sympathetic to his idealism.
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115
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116 Finding a way to include private enterprise would offer a
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117 balance. If the General could play the government off against
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118 private enterprise he could make himself a powerbroker. This
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119 would seem the most practical way to create his project as
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120 near to his vision as possible.
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121
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122 The government is far to cynical to go for a project run by
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123 volunteers. Even John Kennedy, who created the Peace Corps.
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124 and VISTA, did it to get the hippies out of the hair of
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125 government.
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126
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127 Perhaps if he included a killer lazer gun or atomic missiles
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128 capable of destroying cities he might have better luck with
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129 funding.
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130
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131 Contremon Valerius: Very sad to hear you're leaving. You will
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132 be missed.
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133
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134 General Maciabo: Good luck with your plans. Perhaps someday
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135 idealism will triumph...even though it seldom has in the past
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137
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138 Gary
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139
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140 ***************************************************************
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141
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142 Fair Patrons,
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143 I have been mulling over a rather unique phenomenon of the current culture.
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144 Single parentage by design.
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145 Unique in the sense that single women voluntarily decide to have children
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146 without benifit ( or hindrance as the case may be ) of family ( meaning stable
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147 father figure etc. ) I am by no means decided on the matter -- just concerned
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148 over the welfare and future dispostition of the children involved.
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149 Does not having a tangable quantifiable father by maternal design as opposed
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150 to being an orphan have any detrimental effects ?
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151 Does this signal a new order of family (?) life ?
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152 In terms of social acceptance ( peer groups etc. ) what will be the effect ?
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153
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154 Your comments please !
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155
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156 :::::::::::Alex:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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157 alex
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158 where is it established that there must be a father to raise the child? surely there are enough father figures in the world fo
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159 surely there are enough father figures for the child to emulate.
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161 break
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162
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163
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164 To the above:(is your name "Break"?)
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165 There are certainly father-figures aplenty, but many psychologists feel that for proper development (emotional andsocial)
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166 to occur, parents of both sexes should be present, especially during the first 4-6 years. This of course opens up the can
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167 of worms "what is proper development", which I choose not to delve into at this time.
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168 MesoMath: Surely you aren't suggesting the Postal (dis)Service! How Mesolithic can you get?
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169 && The Mad Actor &&
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170 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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171 DAVER, MACAIBO, CONTREMON........WHAT CAN I SAY?........YOUR GREAT
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172 WRITING STYLE WILL BE SORELY MISSED! I WOULD IMAGINE THO, THE BBS IN
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173 CALIFORNIA HAVE NO IDEA WHAT'S IN STORE FOR THEM.......BUT WE DO!
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174 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?DEBORAH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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175 ALEX: I, TOO FEEL CONCERN FOR THIS GROWING PHENOMENEN. I WAS FROM A
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176 SINGLE PARENT FAMILY TO SOME EXTENT, THO I DID HAVE A STRONG MALE FI-
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177 GURE IN MY LIFE DURING MY SO CALLED FORMATIVE YEARS. GRADE SCHOOL AGE...
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178 I DO BELIEVE THAT IT IS QUITE IMPORTANT TO HAVE BOTH INFLUENCES WHILE
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179 A CHILD IS YOUNG, BUT IF THE TWO PARTIES INVOLVED HATE EACH OTHER,
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180 THE LACK OF ONE OR THE OTHER IS LESS DETRIMENTAL. IT WAS QUITE A RE-
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181 LIEF ON ALL WHEN MY PARENTS DIVORCED, AND I BECAME A MUCH MORE STABLE
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182 CHILD WHEN THE HATEFUL ATMOSPHERE WAS REMOVED. BUT EVERYONES CIRCUM-
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183 STANCES ARE DIFFERENT.
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184 I ALSO HAVE 3 STEP SISTERS THAT WERE TOTALLY RAISED BY ONLY A MOTHER.
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185 THEY ARE SO NORMAL IT'S UNBELIEVABLE! MY FATHER JUST RECENTLY MARRIED
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186 THEIR MOTHER.
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187 I ALSO HAVE SOME VERY CLOSE FRIENDS THAT WERE RAISED ONLY BY THEIR
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188 FATHER, AND THEY TOO ARE FINE. I THINK IT DEPENDS ON HOW MUCH OF A
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189 PARENT THE PERSON INVOLVED IS, AND HOW CLOSE OF A RELATIONSHIP CAN
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190 BE MAINTAINED BETWEEN ADULT AND CHILD.
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191 L
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192 *****************************************************************
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193 TMA: I AGREE WITH YOUR CONCERN ABOUT NOT WANTING TO INFRINGE UPON
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194 THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH OF OTHERS, BUT VANDLISM IS NOT AN EXERCISE
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195 IN FREE SPEECH, IT IS INSTEAD AN INFRINGMENT OF THE RIGHTS UPON
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196 THOSE WHO IT IS DONE. THIS EVEN INCLUDES LIBAL (RIGHTFULLY SO) AS
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197 IT IS AN ATTEMPT TO HURT ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL VERBALY. VANDLISM IS
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198 DESTRUCTION OF ANOTHERS PROPERTY, AGAIN AN INFRINGMENT UPON
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199 ANOTHER (OR IN THE CASE OF PUBLIC PROPERTY, ALL OF US). ONE OF
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200 THE NICE THINGS ABOUT BWMS BEING SO OPEN, IS NOT ONLY THAT ANYONE
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201 CAN SAY ANYTHING THEY WANT, BUT ALSO IT IS SELF POLICING. I HAVE
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202 VERY SELDOM ENCOUNTERED POLICING EFFORTS WHICH WERE TOO EXTREME.
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203 WHILE THERE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF VANDLISM, IT IS
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204 SOMETHING THAT ONE LEARNS TO LIVE WITH. HOWEVER, REPAIRS SHOULD
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205 BE EFFECTED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE AFTER SUCH, OR IT GIVES THE
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206 INDICATION TO OTHERS THAT VANDLISM IS OK. WHICH IN MY OPION IT IS
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207 NOT! SO ANYWAY, YES THIS SYSTEM IS OPEN TO ALL TO USE IT AS THEY
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208 WISH, IT IS NOT HOWEVER ACCEPTED THAT OTHERS WORKS (INCLUDING
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209 MINE) BE VANDLIZED. THAT IS NOT IN ACCORDANCE WITH BASIC
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210 FREEDOMS, AND NOT CONSIDERED ACCEPTABLE HERE EITHER. THERE IS ONE
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211 AREA WHERE I DO STRAY FROM THE STRICTEST SENSE OF THE FREE SPEECH
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212 CONCEPT, AND THAT IS FOUL LANGUAGE. I DO NOT APROVE OF IT ON THIS
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213 SYSTEM BECAUSE IT IS OPEN TO THE PUBLIC, AND MANY YOUNGER
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214 INDIVIDUALS DO LOG ON TO THE SYSTEM. WHILE I COULD CARE LESS
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215 ABOUT THE LANGUAGE OTHERS USE, I DO CONSIDER IT IMPROPER TO
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216 EXHIBIT SUCH DISREGARD FOR ITS USE TO YOUNG IMPRESSIONABLE MINDS
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217 POSSIBLY GIVING THEM THE IDEA THAT IT IS OK TO TALK THAT WAY.
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218 UNTIL SUCH TIME AS THEY ARE MATURE ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND THE TRUE
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219 CONTENT OF WHAT IS SAID, I FEEL THAT SOME DEGREE OF RESTRAINT
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220 SHOULD BE OBSERVED. WHILE I DO FEEL THAT RESTRICTING THE LANGUAGE
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221 IN THIS FORM IS APPROACHING ON THE EDGES OF RESTRICTION OF THE
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222 FREEDOM OF SPEECH, AND IN FACT IF TOO MUCH EXTREMISM IS TAKEN IN
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223 THAT REGARD IT DOES INDEED FALL IN THAT CATAGORY IN MY OPINION,
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224 YET THERE IS THE WIDER PICTURE OF CONSIDERING INFRINGMENT UPON
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225 THE CHILDS RIGHTS GIVING FALSE VALUES, THUS DISRUPTING THEIR
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226 LIVES IN AN INDIRECT WAY. BASICLY MY FEELINGS IN THIS REGARD IS
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227 IF IT REQUIRES SOME DEGREE OF EFFORT WHICH IS NOMINALLY
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228 PREVENTIVE TOWARDS ALLOWING A CHILD TO GAIN ACCESS TO
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229 DISREPUTABLE MATERIAL (WE WON'T GET INTO WHAT DISREPUTABLE IS AT
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230 THIS TIME) THEN IT IS IN AN ACCEPTABLE RESTRICTED FORM. IF
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231 HOWEVER IT IS FREELY AVAILABLE FOR EASY ACCESS WITH NO REGARD FOR
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232 WHO MIGHT VIEW IT, THEN I FEEL THAT IT IS AN INFRINGMENT, AND
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233 SOMTHING SHOULD BE DONE ABOUT IT. I REALIZE THAT THIS IS A TOUCHY
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234 AREA, AND A REAL PROBLEM IS DEFINING WHAT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, AND
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235 WHAT IS, BUT I DO FEEL THAT IT IS THE PROPER THING. I ALSO
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236 BELEIVE THAT THESE SORTS OF CONCEPTS REQUIRE CONTINUAL REVAMPIMG
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237 AS THE VALUES OF SOCIETY CHANGE. THE TRUE MEANING THAT IS
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238 IMPARTED UPON A WORD OR ACTION CHANGES WITH TIME, AND CAN BECOME
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239 NASTY OR GOOD DEPENDING ON THE CURRENT VALUES.
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240 ****** ENOUGH ALREADY! ******** CISTOP MIKEY *******************
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241 P.S. PAM, I HOPE YOU INACTIVITY IS ONLY DUE TO NOT BEING ABLE TO
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242 GET ON EASILY (THOUGH I HOPE EVEN THAT ISN'T TOO MUCH A PROBLEM
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243 FOR YOU) AND NOT BECAUSE YOU'VE SOURED ON BWMS. YOUR INPUT HAS
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244 ALWAYS BEEN INTERESTING AND INFORMATIVE. BESIDES, I LIKE IT!
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245 ****************************************************************
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246 ALEX I DON'T FIND SINGLE WOMEN HAVING CHILDREN WITHOUT BEING MARRIED
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247 A PROBLEM. HOWEVER I DO KNOW OF ONE WOMAN WHO DID THIS WHILE ON WELFARE
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248 AND WITH EVERY INTENTION OF REMAINING ON WELFARE. THIS I FIND REPUGNENT
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249 PERHAPS BECAUSE INDIRECTLY I WIND UP PAYING FOR THE SUPPORT OF HER CHILD.
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250
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251 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% PEEPER %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
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252 DEAR NANCY:
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253 AFTER ONE DAY OF SEEING YOUR ARTICLES, I AM ALREADY A FAN
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254 I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR FROM YOU, PERHAPS HAVE A GOOD ARGUMENT SOMETIME
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255 - CRUD
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256
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257 EXIT
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258 && && &&
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259 Cistop Mikey:
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260 Much of my previous statement was due to my lack of understanding about
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261 your definitions of "open". Having heard your desires in a bit more detail,
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262 I will return to my practice of throwing out the "garbage" I find on the
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263 board. I myself agree with the attitudes you expressed above, but in my
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264 lack of such detailed knowledge I gave the most liberal interpretation I
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265 could to your sign-on words, feeling that it was better to err in the
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266 direction of leniency, and knowing that if my choice was wrong I would
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267 find out about it (as I have). If I'd simply wiped the material without
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268 comment, I'd have never known for sure.
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269 To All Users:
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270 This Is Your Board, Too. Help Keep It Clean.
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271 The Janitor (also known as...)
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272 && The Mad Actor &&
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273 P.S.-- General, Contremon V.,et al,
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274 I'll miss you too. I was hoping to get you involved in the tale now
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275 unfolding in the Inn. Enjoy your new home, & call as often as you can!
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276 Vale,
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277 && TMA &&
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278 CONCERNING THE ON GOING CONVERSATION ABOUT RELIGION;
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279 THERE ARE MANY POINTS I COULD TOUCH ON HERE BUT BECAUSE OF LACK OF TIME
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280 I WILL JUST HIT A FEW OF THEM.
|
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|
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281 THERE IS NO ONE 'TRUE' RELIGION NOR IS THERE ONE 'TRUE' GOD.
|
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|
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282 EVEN IF ALL PEOPLE WERE TO CALL THEIR GOD BY THE SAME NAME, EACH
|
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|
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283 PERSON WOULD HAVE HIS OR HER OWN CONCEPTION OF WHAT THEIR GOD WAS LIKE;
|
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|
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284 FATHERLIKE
|
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|
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285 FORGIVING
|
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|
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286 STERN
|
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|
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287 UNFORGIVING
|
|||
|
|
288 NO TWO PEOPLE CAN EVEN TOTALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM
|
|||
|
|
289 LET ALONE A CONCEPT!
|
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|
|
290 CHRIST HIMSELF SAID "IN MY FATHERS MANSION ARE MANY ROOMS". MEANING, OF
|
|||
|
|
291 COURSE THAT ALL WHO GAIN THE SANCTUARY OF HEAVEN NEED NOT HAVE COME BY
|
|||
|
|
292 THE SAME PATH.
|
|||
|
|
293 GOD DOES NOT WANT YOU LTO SUFFER PAIN. THAT IS AN INEFITABLE
|
|||
|
|
294 CONSEQUENCE OF HUMANESS, OF BEING A THINKING, FEELING 'CHOOSING' BEING.
|
|||
|
|
295 WE ARE GIVEN THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE OUR WAYS; TO, IF WE WISH DISOBEY THE
|
|||
|
|
296 DESIRES AND COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD.
|
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|
|
297 AND THE LAST COMMANDMENT - THE ONE THAT TAKES PRECEDENT OVER ALL
|
|||
|
|
298 OTHERS IS - LOVE ONE ANOTHER!!!!
|
|||
|
|
299 THERE IS BALANCE IN NATURE
|
|||
|
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300 JOY - SORROW
|
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|
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301 BIRTH - DEATH
|
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|
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302 GOOD - EVIL
|
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|
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303 TO TRY TO, OR WISH TO HAVE ONE WITHOUT THE OTHER IS TO DENY THE
|
|||
|
|
304 FUNDAMENTAL NATURE OF REALITY.
|
|||
|
|
305 ENOUGH FOR NOW
|
|||
|
|
306 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX SNK XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
|
|||
|
|
307 (THE SNOT NOSED KID)
|
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|
|
308 ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
|
|||
|
|
309 The piper moved off in the direction of the promised drink. On the way
|
|||
|
|
310 toward the table where a man dressed in gray and a young lady sat, he hesitatied
|
|||
|
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311 for a moment:
|
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|
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312 "A moment, sir, I should reply to the young lady speaking on religion --
|
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|
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313
|
|||
|
|
314 Deborah -- Forgive me for nearly forgetting to reply, but one thing occurs.
|
|||
|
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315 In my question that I asked before, perhaps I should ask you specifically --
|
|||
|
|
316 what if the bible is *not* divinely inspired, and merely the transcription
|
|||
|
|
317 of the records of a primitive nomad tribe (the old testament) and the
|
|||
|
|
318 interpretations of the teachings of a slightly unbalanced jewish mystic set
|
|||
|
|
319 down by his self-serving followers? Mind you, I do not say this is the case,
|
|||
|
|
320 merely -- what then?
|
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|
|
321 Can you support Christianity without reference to the bible, or is Christianity
|
|||
|
|
322 completely dependent on that single book?"
|
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|
|
323
|
|||
|
|
324 With a smile and a bow, the piper turned away and stepped close to his own
|
|||
|
|
325 table and spoke to the bard.
|
|||
|
|
326 "This gentleman has offered a drink, and I feel that adventure may be in the
|
|||
|
|
327 offing. Should the opportunity arise, are you game?"
|
|||
|
|
328
|
|||
|
|
329 Not waiting for an answer, the piper moved to the table and sank down before e
|
|||
|
|
330 waiting figures.
|
|||
|
|
331 ppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppppp
|
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|
|
332
|
|||
|
|
333 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
|
|||
|
|
334 MIKEY: WELL PUT...I'M TOTALLY IN AGREEMENT.
|
|||
|
|
335
|
|||
|
|
336 PAM: IT IS TRUE YOUR INPUT IS MISSED....I OFTEN FIND MYSELF WONDERING
|
|||
|
|
337 WHERE YOU ARE.
|
|||
|
|
338 PIPER: EVEN WITHOUT THE BIBLE, I FEEL THAT A BELIEF IN A CREATOR IS
|
|||
|
|
339 QUITE LOGICAL. THE BENEFIT WITH THE BIBLE IS THAT WE CAN GET SOME
|
|||
|
|
340 VIEW OF THE WAY GOD HAS DEALT WITH HUMANS, AND A CONCEPT OF HIS
|
|||
|
|
341 LIKES AND DISLIKES. IT'S INTERESTING THAT EVERYTHING THAT IS VIEWED
|
|||
|
|
342 AS WRONG IN THE BIBLE, CAUSES PAIN TO HUMANS. SO LIVING BY IT'S
|
|||
|
|
343 STANDARDS CAN BE A REAL BENEFIT.
|
|||
|
|
344 THE BAD THING ABOUT THE BIBLE, IS WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH IT. THEY
|
|||
|
|
345 TWIST IT THAT WAY AND THIS, AND FIT IN THIS EXPLANATION AND THAT ,
|
|||
|
|
346 TO TRY AND FIT THEIR OWN OPINIONS IN. WHEN ACTUALLY IT WAS MEANT
|
|||
|
|
347 TO BE TAKEN AT FACE VALUE.
|
|||
|
|
348 SNOT NOSE: INDEED THERE IS TRUTH IN REALITY. GRAVITY IS GRAVITY.
|
|||
|
|
349 BLUE IS BLUE, ETC. THER MAY BE MANY OPINIONS.....BUT THERE IS
|
|||
|
|
350 ONLY ONE TRUTH. I'M NOT CLAIMING I KNOW IT ALL....BUT SOMEWHERE
|
|||
|
|
351 SOMETIME, SOMEWAY...THERE MUST BE. NATURE IS VERY DEFINATE,
|
|||
|
|
352 GOVERNED BY EXTREMELY DEFINATE LAWS.
|
|||
|
|
353 ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!DEBORAH?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
|
|||
|
|
354 XRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRX
|
|||
|
|
355
|
|||
|
|
356 OK, LET'S ASSUME FOR THE MOMENT THAT GOD DOES
|
|||
|
|
357 EXIST AND THAT HE CREATED THE UNIVERSE.
|
|||
|
|
358
|
|||
|
|
359 SO WHAT DID HE CREATE IT FROM?
|
|||
|
|
360
|
|||
|
|
361 AND THE REAL KICKER, WHO CREATED GOD?
|
|||
|
|
362
|
|||
|
|
363 XRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXR REX XRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRRXRXRXRXRX
|
|||
|
|
364 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
|
|||
|
|
365 Rex,
|
|||
|
|
366 God is not material. When he created this univerese, he didn't have
|
|||
|
|
367 to worry about the laws of physics. He created those later on. No one
|
|||
|
|
368 created God. He's existed forever. You may find this hard to believe,
|
|||
|
|
369 but time is part of this unverese.
|
|||
|
|
370 Dr. Buck
|
|||
|
|
371 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
|
|||
|
|
372 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
|
|||
|
|
373 Rex, I agree with you totally. I saw an
|
|||
|
|
374 episode of COSMOS where
|
|||
|
|
375 Carl Sagan asked the same questions.
|
|||
|
|
376 It kind of makes you wonder
|
|||
|
|
377 how you make something from nothing.
|
|||
|
|
378
|
|||
|
|
379 FOTI
|
|||
|
|
380 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
|
|||
|
|
381 XRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRX
|
|||
|
|
382
|
|||
|
|
383 WHO SAYS SOMETHING MUST BE MATERIAL TO BE
|
|||
|
|
384 CREATED? LIGHT IS CERTAINLY NOT MATERIAL, YET IT CAN
|
|||
|
|
385 BE CREATED BY A NUMBER OF MEANS.
|
|||
|
|
386
|
|||
|
|
387 ALSO, THE ARGUMENT THAT GOD ALWAYS HAS EXISTED
|
|||
|
|
388 IS A VERY FLIMSY ARGUMENT, BY THAT SAME ARGUMENT I
|
|||
|
|
389 COULD SAY THAT THE UNIVERSE ALWAYS HAS EXISTED TOO,
|
|||
|
|
390 THUS NOT NEEDING A GOD TO CREATE IT. I COULD STILL
|
|||
|
|
391 FIT THIS INTO THE BIG BANG CONCEPT THAT SCIENTISTS
|
|||
|
|
392 LIKE TO USE FOR THE UNIVERSE AND THE SCIENTIFICLY
|
|||
|
|
393 ORIENTED RELIGIOUS TYPES LIKE TO USE AS SUPPORTING
|
|||
|
|
394 EVIDENCE BY SIMPLY POINTING OUT THAT THE UNIVERSE
|
|||
|
|
395 COULD COLAPSE ON ITSELF AND BLOW OUT AGAIN FOREVER.
|
|||
|
|
396
|
|||
|
|
397 I BRING UP THE POINT OF CREATION OF GOD, BECAUSE
|
|||
|
|
398 IF SOMEONE OR THING OR WHATEVER DID CREATE THIS WHOLE
|
|||
|
|
399 MESS WETHER IT BE ONE SECOND AGO, OR UMTEEN MILLION
|
|||
|
|
400 ZILLION YEARS AGO, THE QUESTION MUST BE ASKED WHO
|
|||
|
|
401 CREATED THE CREATOR? AND OF COURSE THAT BEGETS THE
|
|||
|
|
402 QUESTION OF WHO CREATED THE CREATOR WHO CREATED THE
|
|||
|
|
403 CREATOR? AD INFINITUM.........
|
|||
|
|
404
|
|||
|
|
405 NOR CAN I ACCEPT THE CONCEPT THAT SOMETHING CAN
|
|||
|
|
406 BE CREATED FROM NOTHING. THERE HAS TO BE SOME
|
|||
|
|
407 UNDERLAYING BASIS FOR THE EXISTANCE TO OCCUR. THE ONE
|
|||
|
|
408 CONCEPT I HAVE HEARD IN THAT REGARD THAT I CAN FIND
|
|||
|
|
409 ACCEPTABLE IS THAT THE UNIVERSE 'IS' GOD. WHILE IT
|
|||
|
|
410 DOES NOT ANSWER THE OTHER QUESTIONS ABOUT WHO CREATED
|
|||
|
|
411 GOD ECT., IT AT LEAST PROVIDES A BASIS FROM WHICH THE
|
|||
|
|
412 UNIVERSE COULD BE MADE ASSUMING WE ALLOW THE CONCEPT
|
|||
|
|
413 THAT THIS GOD CREATED IT.
|
|||
|
|
414
|
|||
|
|
415 XRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXR REX XRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRRXRXRXRXRX
|
|||
|
|
416
|
|||
|
|
417
|
|||
|
|
418
|
|||
|
|
419 GRETINS TO THE PEOPLE OF THE IN N
|
|||
|
|
420 LET ME INTRODUCE MY SELF I AN MA YUAN A SIMPLE
|
|||
|
|
421 SOLE AND A MILLITANT PASIFASS (I ALSO KAN'T SPELL)
|
|||
|
|
422 AS TO THE SUBJECT OF RELIGON AND BEING RELIGUS
|
|||
|
|
423 IS IT GOOD OR BAD MIGHT IT BE WISE TO LOOKAT
|
|||
|
|
424 WHAT THE BOY SCOUTS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT THAY
|
|||
|
|
425 SAY TO BE REVERENT NOT RELIGOUS I BELIVE THIS
|
|||
|
|
426 MEANS TO RESPECT OUTHERS RELIGONS AND NOT ATTACK THEM
|
|||
|
|
427 I FELL THAT I CAN SPEEK WITH SOME ATHORDY ON THIS DUE
|
|||
|
|
428 TO THE FACT THAT I HAVE BEEN INVOLVED IN SCOUTS
|
|||
|
|
429 FOR TEN YERS.
|
|||
|
|
430
|
|||
|
|
431
|
|||
|
|
432 FATHFULY YOURS
|
|||
|
|
433 MA YAUN
|
|||
|
|
434
|
|||
|
|
435
|
|||
|
|
436 PS IN RESPONC TO NANCY IN AND AN EARLER ARGUMENT
|
|||
|
|
437 I AGGRE WITH YOU AND WISH TO EXPRES MY VEUE THAT
|
|||
|
|
438 SEX SHOULD NOT BE USED AS A LEVER ON A DIFFRENT
|
|||
|
|
439 ENETY.
|
|||
|
|
440
|
|||
|
|
441
|
|||
|
|
442 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% ARE THERE ANY DEIST'S OUT
|
|||
|
|
443 HERE? ALSO, AS A NEWCOMER TO THESE
|
|||
|
|
444 DISCUSSIONS, ONE QUESTION COMES TO
|
|||
|
|
445 MIND. WHAT OR WHERE IS TH MUCH
|
|||
|
|
446 REFERRED TO "INN"?
|
|||
|
|
447 ORNAC
|
|||
|
|
448 %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%
|
|||
|
|
475 Wanted musicians:Forming 50's 60's show band. experiance a must! contact JR
|
|||
|
|
476 at 667-xxxx. thanks
|
|||
|
|
477 ---------------------------------------
|
|||
|
|
478 GEM OF THE MOUNTAINS by Paul Aurandt
|
|||
|
|
479 It was the prospect of gold which brought people into the territory in the first place. Those who came decided to stay.
|
|||
|
|
480 By February of 1859, an act had been introduced in Congress which would make that chunk of land spanning the Rockies an
|
|||
|
|
481 official U.S. territory. The name, "Osage Territory" was proposed. Yet there was too much congressional foot-dragging to
|
|||
|
|
482 suit the enthusiastic inhabitants of the area. And so on June 6 a constitutional convention assembled, and the name
|
|||
|
|
483 "Jefferson Territory" was adopted. Then the election of a delegate to Congress was scheduled.
|
|||
|
|
484 Had duly elected delegate B. D. Williams simply gone to Washington, D.C., and gained the acceptance of Jefferson Territory
|
|||
|
|
485 as an official territory of the United States, the eventual state would have been called Jefferson. Of course, there is no
|
|||
|
|
486 such state, and here's why.
|
|||
|
|
487 Among the unsuccessful candidates for territorial delegate was a fellow namd George M. Willing. He decided to go to
|
|||
|
|
488 Washington anyway, and he met delegate Williams there. He told delegate Williams that Congress would be unlikely to buy the
|
|||
|
|
489 name Jefferson for the new territory, and that he, George Willing, had a better name: Idaho. It was an Indian word, George
|
|||
|
|
490 said. It meant "Gem of the mountains."
|
|||
|
|
491 Delegate Williams said that Idaho was a very nice name indeed, but that the territorial inhabitants had already chosen
|
|||
|
|
492 "Jefferson," and "Jefferson" they would get.
|
|||
|
|
493 Shortly thereafter, both House and Senate committees determined that to start a trend of naming territories after presidents
|
|||
|
|
494 would not be a good idea, and that President Washington's should remain a singular honor.
|
|||
|
|
495 So what about the name Idaho, George Willing once more asked? Delegate Williams replied that if "Jefferson" was out of the
|
|||
|
|
496 question, a number of names should be pondered and carefully evaluated.
|
|||
|
|
497 Names proposed to the Senate committee included "Tampa" and "Nemara" and "Weapollao" and "Arapahoe" and even "San Juan." The
|
|||
|
|
498 House committee seemed particularly fond of "Tahosa," an Indian word meaning "dwellers on the mountaintops."
|
|||
|
|
499 The names of Columbus, Franklin, and Lafayette were also considered for the new territory. But the one name, apparently
|
|||
|
|
500 irresistible to all, was George Willing's original name: Idaho. "Gem of the mountains." What could be more appropriate?
|
|||
|
|
501 But this is THE REST OF THE STORY.
|
|||
|
|
502 Delegate B. D. Williams, still suspicious of the territorial tag-along George Willing, decided to research the origin of the
|
|||
|
|
503 Indian word "Idaho." He discovered not only that Idaho did NOT mean "Gem of the mountains, but that Idaho had no meaning at
|
|||
|
|
504 all.
|
|||
|
|
505 There was no such word, in ANY language, as "Idaho"!
|
|||
|
|
506 Suddenly realizing that the Idaho proposal had been George Willing's practical joke from the start, delegate Williams
|
|||
|
|
507 hurried back to the Hill with this warning: The name Idaho was a fake. It meant nothing, least of all "gem of the mountains."
|
|||
|
|
508 That the name of a territory and ultimately a state should be a product of a practical joker's imagination was unthinkable.
|
|||
|
|
509 Therefore, the new territory must receive another name. A LEGITIMATE name.
|
|||
|
|
510 And it did.
|
|||
|
|
511 The name "Idaho" was abandoned.
|
|||
|
|
512 And on February 8, 1861, COLORADO was born.
|
|||
|
|
513
|
|||
|
|
514 ------------------------------------------------------ P. V. Jeltz -----------
|
|||
|
|
515 Ahhah! At last we get back to the topic I proposed so long ago! (Which topic?)
|
|||
|
|
516 Do we really exist at all? And does that question have any meaning? Don't give me Decarte's cop-out "I think therefore I
|
|||
|
|
517 am," because what you really are saying is that you THINK you think, which doesn't prove a thing!
|
|||
|
|
518 If the universe is/was a creation of God, made from nothing, then perhaps the closest we can come to a true conception o
|
|||
|
|
519 of the nature of reality is that of a dream in the mind of God, who being by definition a limitless being would have a
|
|||
|
|
520 limitless capacity for dream. This would encompass not only our own vast universe, but also infinite other universes, all
|
|||
|
|
521 equally complex. This is, of course, unprovable by standard scientific means, leaving the question open only to examination
|
|||
|
|
522 by non-standard means. Could Gnostic Christians be right in their assumption that the nature of reality is different for
|
|||
|
|
523 each individual, and is open only to experience, not quantitative analysis? If this is so it would help explain such
|
|||
|
|
524 things as the uncertainty principle, and explain why things like yoga and shamanism (and bumblebees) that shouldn't
|
|||
|
|
525 work, do.
|
|||
|
|
526 Keep those cards & letters coming!
|
|||
|
|
527 && The Mad Actor &&
|
|||
|
|
528 ================================================================================ SCENARIO:
|
|||
|
|
529
|
|||
|
|
530 LOCATION: ON DECK OF AN ENGLISH BATTLESHIP IN THE FRENCH-ENGLISH WAR
|
|||
|
|
531
|
|||
|
|
532 SITUATION: FIRST MATE IS DISCUSSIN LOCAL SNAIL RACING WITH THE CAPTIAN
|
|||
|
|
533
|
|||
|
|
534 FADE IN...........
|
|||
|
|
535
|
|||
|
|
536 LOOKOUT SHOUTS FROM ABOVE: "FOUR BRESLY FRENCH SCHOONERS OFF THE PORT BOW !"
|
|||
|
|
537 1ST MATE:YOUR ORDERS SIR?
|
|||
|
|
538
|
|||
|
|
CAP: GO INTO MY CABIN AND GET ME MY GREAT OVERCOAT , THE ONE MADE OF RED VELOUR.
|
|||
|
|
539 1ST MATE: BUT CAPTAIN, WON'T THIS GARMENT BE A BURDEN TO YOU WHEN WE ARE IN BATTLE ?
|
|||
|
|
540 CAP: YES, BUT I AM WEARING IT FOR REASONS OF MORAL,I AM THINKING OF THE MEN
|
|||
|
|
541 1ST MATE: MORALE? HOW? EXPLAIN YOURSELF PLEASE?
|
|||
|
|
542 CAP: IN BATTLE, IF I AM HIT AND THE MEN SEE IT, THEIR FIGHTING EFFECTIVENESS WILL BE GREATLY LESSENED IF THEY SEE THEIR
|
|||
|
|
543 LEADER IS WOUNDED. IF I WEAR A RED COAT, THE BLOOD WILL NOT BE NOTICED.
|
|||
|
|
544 1ST MATE: I UNDERSTAND, A BRILLIANT STROKE OF POLITIC, SIR.
|
|||
|
|
545
|
|||
|
|
546 LOOKOUT SHOUTS FROM ABOVE: "FORTY-FOUR BRESLY FRENCH SCHOONERS OFF THE PORT BOW !!"
|
|||
|
|
547
|
|||
|
|
548 CAP : MATE, WOULD YOU BE SO KIND AS TO GO INTO MY CABIN AND GET ME MY
|
|||
|
|
549 BROWN CORDUROY TROUSERS.
|
|||
|
|
550
|
|||
|
|
551 -CRUD
|
|||
|
|
552
|
|||
|
|
553 ================================================================================
|
|||
|
|
554 Ornac: you're in the Inn now. It seems to exist everywhere/when, but its primary level of existence is in a lan
|
|||
|
|
555 called Innisfall. The entrance to the Inn in our plane of reality is somewhere inside of a computer in the Johnson
|
|||
|
|
556 Creek area of Portland.
|
|||
|
|
557 May I buy you a drink?--Inkeeper! Ales for the Piper and Ornac here, and one for the Bard over there, if he'll
|
|||
|
|
558 have it. Gentlemen, Lynn here has a proposition which I think you might find interesting, if you've the stomach for
|
|||
|
|
559 a little risk...
|
|||
|
|
560 && The Mad Actor &&
|
|||
|
|
561 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
|
|||
|
|
562 It seems logical to me that something could exist forever. Time
|
|||
|
|
563 is part of this universe. A divine being would obviously be above that
|
|||
|
|
564 rule. This universe could not exist forever without a divine being. By
|
|||
|
|
565 the law of entropy, the energy would eventually. evenly distribute
|
|||
|
|
566 itself unless there was outside energy. So no matter which way you
|
|||
|
|
567 look at it, it falls back on God.
|
|||
|
|
568 As for if I exist. I think I'll never know that. In order to keep
|
|||
|
|
569 my sanity, I'll assume I exist. This arrangement seems to work out
|
|||
|
|
570 great.
|
|||
|
|
571 Dr. Buck
|
|||
|
|
572 P.S. Light is a form of matter.
|
|||
|
|
573 Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
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574 I think you would get a argument out of a number of
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575 scientists about light being matter. Also, there are
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576 a multitude of non-material forces out there that
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577 can either be created, or that exist as a result of
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578 something else being created. Three very common and
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579 well known ones are electricity, magnatisism, and
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580 gravity. Non of these are material, we know they
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581 exist, and in the case of two of them we can create
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582 them at will. As for the universe comming to a stop
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583 via the entrophy concept, that is still far from
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584 an only accepted end of the universe, with the right
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585 amount of mass the universe can recyle itsef forever.
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586 It simply colapses back in on itself and goes thru the
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587 big bang again forever.
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588 As far as god is concerned, you seem to be using
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589 a self feeding proof there. Why does God have to
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590 be kicking around forever? Why couldn't he himself (or
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591 herself) have been created? I see no reason why this
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592 can't be so. Being material or not has nothing to do
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593 with hanging around forever. It is quite feasible for
|
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594 both to have that capability.
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595 XRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXR REX XRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXRXR
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596 WILL SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE ME SOME INPUT ON THE REALITY OF NOTHINGNESS?
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597 YST-CRUD
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598
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599 This discussion of religion is pointless and tends to be recursive in all
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600 respects. All that needs to be said is that people thrive best in their own
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601 environ and to question that environ is incorrect ,this statement pertains
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602 to all cases ie: both sides whomever they may be.
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603 If one chooses to entertain a viewpoint that viewpoint is unique and
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604 founded of absolute creativity. To venture to alter this viewpoint
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605 through means of direct criticism is a desecration of human rights of
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606 theory. One may express personal opinions on what they view so long as
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607 these opinions do not wantonly excoriate the beliefs of others.
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608
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609 >> A HYPOCRITE WHO TALKS TOO MUCH
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610
|
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611 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
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|
|
612
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613 The "human rights of theory"? While everyone certainly has the "right" to
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614 entertain any speculative or conjectural viewspoints they wish, unless they are
|
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|
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615 a closely reasoned set of propositions supported by established evidence and
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|
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616 intended to serve as an explanation for some other group of phenomena, I would
|
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|
617 object to classifying them as "theory".
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|
|
618 It is correct to say that one shouldn't wantonly excoriate the beliefs of
|
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|
|
619 others, but if a person intentionally places their beliefs on the table for the
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|
|
620 purpose of argument, he shouldn't be surprised or take offense if they are soon
|
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|
|
621 dissected by others with differing opinions. Such an exchange certainly cannot
|
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622 be labeled wanton excoriation.
|
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|
|
623
|
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|
|
624 It seems that some things never change. Though I've been away for quite
|
|||
|
|
625 some time, this back table still needs to be cleaned. There aren't any random
|
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|
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626 items lying around that need to be picked up, but the table has been abandoned
|
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|
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627 with much left to be done. Ah, well, the Innkeeper now leaves, and so shall I.
|
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|
|
628
|
|||
|
|
629 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM.[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
|
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>
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