textfiles/messages/BACKWATER/bw831122.txt

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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
2 ************************* REMOVED: 22 NOV 83 ************************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day System operator
4 ************************************************************
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
6                     THIS SYSTEM.
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
20 use the replace command to replace the line.
21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
23 ========================================
24 
25 *****************************************************************:
26 LUKE: FIRST, LET ME PRECEED THIS WITH A NUMBER OF DISCLAIMERS.
27 ONE I AM NOT PRO NUCULAR. TWO IF THERE WAS ANY WAY THAT DISARMAMENT COULD
28 BE REASONABLY ACHIEVED I WOULD BE ALL FOR IT. THREE, I DO NOT BELEIVE 
29 THAT A NUCULAR WAR IS WINABLE BY ANYONE. (BUT THEN, I DON'T BELEIVE THAT
30 ANYONE WINS AT ANY KIND OF WAR, BUT THATS ANOTHER STORY.) FOUR, I AM NOT
31 SAYING THAT THERE WON'T BE SIGNIFICANT DAMAGE OR MASSIVE LOSS OF LIVES, NOR
32 THAT IT WON'T HAVE A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON THE ENVIORNMENT. THESE ARE ALL
33 FACTORS THAT HAVE ENORMOUS PROBIBILITY OF HAPPENING. WHAT I AM SAYING IS
34 THAT THE POPULARIZED VERSION THAT IS SPEWED FORTH BY CARL SAGAN AND OTHERS
35 IS SOMEWHAT EXAGERATED. THE EARTH WILL NOT BE TURNED INTO A MOLTEN CINDER
36 FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS. THERE WILL BE SURVIVORS. MANY PLACES ON THE EARTH 
37 WILL BE RELATIVLY UNTOUCHED. AN EMP PULSE WILL NOT WIPEOUT EVERY PEICE OF
38 ELECTRONIC GEAR IN THE WORLD. THE VERSION THAT IS CURRENTLY BEING SPEWED
39 ABOUT THAT (EMP PULSE) IS GROSSLY MISS STATED. MUCH EQUIPMENT IS CURRENTLY
40 PROTECTED SUFFICENTLY TO SURVIVE THAT SORT OF THING. AS I INDICATED BEFORE,
41 THE RADIATION LEVEL STRENGTH AND LONGEVITY AND PRESISTANCE IS HIGHLY
42 OVERSTATED. YES, CERTAIN ELEMENTS DO LAST FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS, BUT WHAT
43 THEY DON'T TELL YOU IS THAT IT IS A VERY SMALL AMOUNT THAT IS GENERATED,
44 THE WORLD WILL NOT BE FILLED WITH IT. THE ACTIVE RADIATION THAT DOES ALL
45 THE DAMAGE AND NASTINESS WE HEAR ABOUT ONLY STICKS AROUND FOR A VERY SHORT
46 TIME (MEASURED IN DAYS TO YEARS NOT TENS OR HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS OF YEARS)
47 THE BOMBS YOU HEAR ABOUT ARE NOT POINTED AT EVERY SQUARE INCH OF LAND THERE
48 IS, THERE SIMPLY ARE NOT THAT MANY. THEY ARE TARGETED TO SPECIFIC POINTS
49 THERE IS NOT MUCH POINT IN DESTROYING NON-MILITARY TARGETS. (BY THE WAY,
50 PORTLAND IS A MILITARY TARGET SIGH...) ANOTHER THING THEY DON'T TELL YOU
51 IS THAT 25% TO 50% OF THE BOMBS WON'T EXPLODE FOR ONE REASON OR ANOTHER.
52 (BIG DEAL, I KNOW, BUT IT IS NICE TO KNOW THOSE SORTS OF THINGS, AND IT
53 DOES MAKE ME WONDER WHEN THEY TRY TO HIDE THINGS LIKE THAT.) AS FAR AS
54 THINGS LIKE THE POLES ALL MELTING ECT.. IT IS PURE SPECULATION, THE 
55 'FACTS' I'VE SEEN TO SUPPORT SUCH THINGS ARE USUALLY STRETCHED SO FAR OUT
56 OF SHAPE AS TO BE ALMOST UNRECOGNIZABLE. I DO NOT SUPPORT THOSE WHO 
57 STRETCH THE TRUTH TO JUSTIFY THEIR VIEWS BE IT PRO OR CON. I HAVE NO DESIRE
58 TO SEE IF A NUCULAR WAR IS SURVIVABLE, BUT NEITHER DO I BELEIVE THAT IT
59 WILL TOTALY DESTROY THE WORLD. WE WILL SURVIVE, BUT AT WHAT COST I DRED
60 TO THINK ABOUT.
61 ************ CISTOP MIKEY ********** 16 NOV 83 ******** 9:30PM *************
62 HROTHGAR: RE ORIENTAL FOOD. I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS, I HAVE TRYED SEVERAL
63 THINGS, AND I DON'T THINK IT IS THE MSG. I HAVE FINALLY HAD TO JUST GIVE
64 UP EATING ETHNIC FOOD OF ORIENTAL PERSUATION. THE LAST TIME IT HAPPENED
65 I WAS EATING A DELICOUS BREADED SALMON STEAK. I CAN'T STAND IT! ARRGGHHH!
66 *******************************************************************:
67 Chuck: any more on the modem bit? The last price/chip I dug up was the
68 TI modem chip at $25 in qty one $17 qty 25.
69 **********************************************************************
70 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
71 
72  Pam: 
73  1) i would be continously solicting them (on BWMS, CBBS, BBBBBS, PMS, BEE,
74 etc.); and at $.75, I think many users would sign on for the hell of it. Yet
75 I would not go into the wholesale "any/every one" philosophy of many past&
76 present BBs.
77  2) to maintain you "anonymity"; simply send me 3 quarters every month in
78 an envelope with your IUD as the return address. (ps. on my system; you can
79 "sign" ANY name to text you leave, it isn't "auto-signed" , like on the
80 other BBs (excluding BWMS), yet there will be a (hidden) field associated
81 with any text, so that only the originator can edit/abolish it) i dont need
82 to know your address, ph#, etc; because if someone contacts me with "hi! i'm
83 Pam! i want a UID", i would give them one. Watching their text, if it looks
84 like it is PAM, and i get the 3 quarters a month from someone with PAM's UID
85 as the return address, fine. If it dosnt look like you, i would leave a note
86 on the BWMS saying that someone had attempted to establish a UID in your
87 name. (perhaps that would goad you into signing up!)..........the only ID
88 that i would have on ANY users would be 
89 1) his other-system "handle", that he signed up under
90 2) his (my system) UID/password set
91 3) the fact that i get 3 quarters a month from someone claiming to be "1"
92    of above...
93                        
94 ALL: seriously now. please leave a party vote in the format of:
95 
96  vote for Frodo, the furry
97 days: nov 13,12,29,27,29  dec 3,4,6,7
98 places: xxx bar and grill, hobiteria, wendy's
99 
100 list both dates and places IN ORDER OF PREFERNCE
101 
102 
103 dropped bit: where did you go? CRC error?
104                                                          Aaron
105 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
106 .......................................................................
107 tHE Dropped bit was temporairly masked out. Now where were we? Regarding 
108 last message about parties, Any day or place is fine, except Dec. 3rd.
109 That is the day of the BBBS pizza party, and 1 a day is enough. Also(some
110 any!), I would rather is NOT be pizza, since every party up to now has
111 been pizza, but if it is I wouldn't stay away, I would just prefer a change
112 of pace. Aaron, sounds like you have some really good ideas for a BBS. Have
113 you thought much about the logistics of money collection. May I suggest
114 you raise your price to $1 per member. Even if the yearly amount comes
115 out the same(by skipping a month or two), sending quarters in the mail
116 is a hassle, and no one is going to write a check for 75 cents. It is a 
117 heck of alot easier to stick a dollar bill in an envelope than it is to
118 fiddle with change.
119 To Luke (and Jody). (sorry aaron) but I don't mind your messages one bit(
120 no pun intended). Like others have said, it is refreshing to see such
121 enthusiasm in people. I wish the people I worked with were half as alive
122 as you and some of the others who use this system. Also, Luke has started
123 (or is continuing) a subject that I really think is worthy of discussion.
124 Remember the battle cry of the ultra conservatives : 'BETTER DEAN THEN
125 RED!'. 
126 To Mikey. What's this about only half the bombs exploding? I have never
127 heard of this(although I do believe in a percentage of failure, but 50%!)
128 Also, what are the chances that all bombs heading our way will be members
129 of the 50% group?!? Pretty high no doubt! 
130 ~}~............The dropped Bit.........................................
131 
132 TDB: I DID NOT SAY THAT 50% WOULD FAIL, I SAID THAT THERE WAS A POSSIBILTY
133 THAT UP TO 50% COULD FAIL. AS TO KNOWING WHICH WILL FAIL AND WHICH WON'T,
134 I'M AFRAID THAT IS UNKNOWABLE. AS TO WHY, THERE ARE A MULTITUDE OF REASONS.
135 EVERYTHING FROM LAUNCH FAILURE TO ELECTRONICS CONTROL FAILURE TO A JUST
136 PLAIN DUD. AND OF COURSE NO ONE KNOWS HOW MANY WILL GO OFF COURSE. OR WILL
137 BE SHOT DOWN BY ANTI-MISILES, ECT.
138 ******************************* CISTOP MIKEY ****************************
139 
140 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
141 
142      MIKEY, ACTUALLY, THE CURRENT "NUCLEAR WINTER" HYPOTHESIS SAYS NOTHING
143 ABOUT TURNING THE WORLD INTO A MOLTEN CINDER OR MELTING THE POLAR ICE
144 CAPS.  WHAT IT SAYS IS THAT THE AMOUNT OF PARTICULATE MATTER PLACED INTO
145 THE ATMOSPHERE FROM GROUND BURSTS WOULD PREVENT A SIGNIFIGANT AMOUNT OF
146 LIGHT FROM REACHING THE SURFACE, REDUCING THE AVERAGE TEMPERATURE TO 
147 BELOW 0 DEGREES F. (DARN, NO SUBSCRIPTS!) FOR MANY WEEKS, AND DESTROYING
148 THE OZONE LAYER.  AFTER THE PARTICULATE MATTER SETTLED OUT, THE LACK OF
149 OZONE IN THE UPPER ATMOSPHERE WOULD ALLOW ULTRAVIOLET TO PENETRATE UN-
150 FILTERED TO THE SURFACE.  THE LACK OF LIGHT AND LOW TEMPERATURES AS A 
151 RESULT IN THE FIRST PHASE WOULD NEARLY ELIMINATE PLANT LIFE (ON LAND
152 ANYWAY), AND THE HEAVY RADIATION IN THE SECOND PHASE WOULD FINISH IT OFF.
153   THE HYPOTHESIS COVERS MANY OTHER THINGS (WHICH I WON'T WASTE SPACE ON
154 HERE), AND I REMAIN UNCONVINCED.                                      
155                                                                        
156 BUT I GOT A REAL CHILL WHEN I HEARD DR. EDWARD TELLER, THE BIGGEST SUP-
157 PORTER OF NUCLEAR WEAPONS I'VE EVER HEARD SPEAK, SAY THAT HE COULDN'T 
158 ARGUE WITH THE FIGURES OR CONCLUSIONS, THOUGH HE THOUGHT THEM PREMATURE.
159                                                                       
160      THANKS, MIKEY, SOMETIMES I HAVE FLASHES OF INFERIORITY.  NICE TO 
161 KNOW I'M WELCOME.
162 
163      ANYBODY HAVE A SPARE PLANET WE CAN EXPERIMENT ON TO FIND OUT IF THE
164 "NUCLEAR WINTER" HYPOTHESIS CAN BECOME A THEORY?
165 
166      AARON, THAT SOUNDS LIKE A VIABLE CONCEPT FOR A BBS.  KEEP ME
167 NOTIFIED.  DO YOU PLAN ON MAKING IT A CP/M TYPE SYSTEM?  MORE DETAILS,
168 PLEASE!!
169 
170 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM+[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
171 
172 PAM: SORRY, THAT LAST RAVE WAS A BIT MUDDLED. AFTER REREADING IT EVEN I
173 HAVE PROBLEMS TRYING TO FIGURE OUT JUST WHAT I WAS GETTING AT! BASICLY,
174 WHAT I WAS DEBUNKING WAS THE WORLD TURNED INTO A TORCH BIT THAT LUKE
175 WAS SPEAKING OF. THIS ONE STILL GETS A LOT OF PRESS. BUT AS FAR AS GOOD
176 OLD DR. SAGAN AND HIS SCIENCE MODIFIED FOR MASS CONSUMPTION GOES (READ
177 SENSATIONALISM) I AM NOT OVERLY EXCITED WITH THE NUCLEAR WINTER THING 
178 EITHER MAINLY BECAUSE IT IS LARGLY CONJECTURE BASED ON INSUFFICIENT 
179 DATA TO BE ABLE TO CONCLUSIVLY COME TO THAT EXTREME A CONCLUSION. 
180 YES, ADDITIONAL PARTICULATE MATTER IN THE AIR WILL CAUSE COOLER WEATHER.
181 BUT THE EXACT EFFECT OF QTY TO TEMP IS NOT TRULY KNOWN YET, AS WELL AS
182 KNOWING HOW MUCH WILL BE KICKED UP. ALSO THE EFFECT TO THE UPPER 
183 ATTMOSPHERE IS ALSO LARGLY CONJECTURE BASED ON INSUFFICIENT DATA FOR
184 THAT TYPE OF CONCLUSION. MOST INFORMATION THEY ARE WORKING WITH IS
185 FROM OBSERVATIONS OF EXISTING ACTIVITIES BOTH BY MAN AND NATURE. THEY
186 THEN 'SCALE' THIS UP TO WHAT THEY THINK WILL BE GOING ON FOR THEIR 
187 PARTICULAR EVENT. HOWEVER NATURE SELDOM SCALES UP IN A NICE NEAT FASHION,
188 USUALY SOMETHING ELSE COMES INTO PLAY ALONG THE WAY TO THROW A RINGER
189 IN THE WORKS. AND OF COURSE THERE IS ALWAYS THE QUESTION OF HOW MUCH
190 MATTER REALLY WILL BE DISPERSED AND HOW IT WILL FALL OUT AND WHAT THE
191 RADIATION PATTERNS WILL BE. THESE ARE ALL UP FOR PLAYING WITH DEPENDING
192 ON WHAT SIDE OF THE FENCE YOU ARE SITING ON. AS FAR AS ARGUING WITH 
193 THE FIGURES, GIVEN THE BASE THEY WERE DERIVED FROM, NO EVEN I CAN'T
194 ARGUE WITH THEM, HOWEVER WHAT I DO MISTRUST IS THE BASE FROM WHICH THEY
195 WERE DERIVED. 
196 BUT AGAIN, I MUST EMPHISIZE THAT I AM NOT SAYING THAT EVERY THING IS
197 GOING TO BE ROSY. FAR FROM IT! IT WOULD BE CATACLISMIC! I SIMPLY DISAGREE
198 WITH THE WORST CASE SENERIO THAT THE SCIENTISTS PRESENT AS BEING REASONABLE.
199 GIVEN A FEW MORE YEARS I THINK THAT A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT THE
200 DIISTRIBUTION PATTERNS OF THOSE THINGS WILL BE BETTER UNDERSTOOD AS THEY
201 EXPLORE THE ACTIONS OF VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS IN THAT ASPECT, BUT STILL
202 AS I INDICATED BEFORE, WE DON'T REALY KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN THE
203 LEVELS ARE RADICALLY BOOSTED, BUT I DOUBT IMMENSLY THAT IT WILL OCCUR
204 IN THE LINEAR FASHION THAT SO MANY SCIENTISTS LIKE TO USE. MAYBE WE CAN 
205 BORROW MARS FOR SOME TESTS, NO ONE SEEMS TO BE USEING IT AT THE CURRENT
206 TIME.
207 ************ CISTOP MIKEY ********* 1:30AM ******* 17 NOV 83 **************
208 REMEMBER LINEAR BOOST OF LEVELS IS THE SAME SCIENTIFIC METHODE THAT BROUGHT
209 YOU THE DETERMINATION THAT MOTHERS MILK CAUSES CANCER.
210 ******************************************************************************
211 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
212 
213 my vote:
214   good days:    NOV 20,21  DEC 04,10,11,17,18,etc..
215   bad days :    NOV 26,27 (thxgvng); DEC 03 (BBBBS)
216   food/loc :    Any; suggest quiet & large, TRI-METable, not bar/tavern
217 
218                                                          Aaron
219 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
220 
221   All: a special thanks for making the MA 76 standard work.
222 
223                                                          Aaron
224 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
225  (much later....8:00 am)
226 
227    i am going restaurant hunting today. any leads appriciated. 
228 
229    Sysm:   well, maybe i might want a copy (at least to see how my
230  new disk eraser works)............
231 
232    PAM:    good to have at least ONE person intrested! i will (by
233  the end of the week) have to decide wether or not to dedicate a phone
234  line to a system (i am just getting some new lines installed). I 
235  hope i can generate some more intrest by then. If you have any ideas
236  for the system (format, content, policy) please voice them; i need
237  all the input i can get.
238    Dropped bit: make that 2 people. your ideas welcome also.
239 
240                                                        Aaron
241 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
242 
243 
244 
245 
246 
247 
248 
249 ***************************************************
250 ###################################################
251 
252 IT IS THE LOPSIDED MAN WHO RUNS BEST ON THE SIDE HILLS OF LIFE
253 
254                             
255 
256 
257                           LeRoy McKane
258 
259 #################################################
260 *************************************************
282 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   17-NOV-1983   12:46   [][][][][][][][]
283 
284 TO AARON:  MAKE IT 3 AT LEAST
285 
286 MY VOTE:  SEE AARONS VOTE, FOR SAME REASONS.
287 
288 D:  ISN'T A UNIFIED WORLD GOVERNMENT WHAT IS PURPORTED TO BE THE RESULT 
289 OF THE RAPTURE AND MILLENIUM SPOKEN OF IN REVELATIONS?  IS THAT WHAT
290 YOU ARE REFERRING TO, OR A SECULAR GOVERNMENT.
291 
292 D: (AGAIN)  I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT I MAY HAVE CAUSED YOU SOME
293 EMBARRASMENT BY MY RESPONSE TO YOUR FAIRYLIKE TRAVERSING OF MY SYSTEM. 
294 IF SO, I AM SORRY, BUT THE INTENT WAS FRIENDLY, NOT FIENDY.  I AM INVOLVED,
295 AND ALWAYS LOOKING FOR PEOPLE TO CONVERSE WITH WHO HAVE SIMILAR SYNAPSES
296 TO MY OWN PROCESSES.  SORRY IF I WAS MISUNDERSTOOD.
297 
298 ALL: IS THE POPULARITY OF SF AND ORYCON, ETC RELATED TO THE CONCEPT THAT
299 IF THESE THINGS ARE POSSIBLE, THEN WE DIDN'T BLOW EVERYONE UP?  JUST
300 A CONJECTURE.
301 
302 MIKEY:  I CAN UNDERSTAND ALBANY, OR AS A MILITARY TARGET, BUT WHY PORTLAND?
303 PIA ?  THE NATIONAL GUARD ?  SURELY THEY ARE NOT SCARED OF 5 AGING PLANES,
304 AND A FEW TRUCKS AND TANKS?  IS THERE SOMETHING I AM NOT FAMILIAR WITH,
305 OR IS IT THE OLD PROBLEM OF ANY INDUSTRIAL TARGET IS AUTOMATICALLY A 
306 MILITARY TARGET?  
307 
308 (CONCERN, ANGUISH, A SENSE OF FOREBODING)
309 
310 AT LEAST IN GROUND ZERO, YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT HOW TO SURVIVE.
311 WHAT IS THE CONSENSUS OF OPINION ON THE MOVIE, 'THE DAY AFTER'
312 GOOD? BAD? WHO CARES?
313 
314 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   CHINESE PHILOSOPHER - ON TOO LONG   [][][]
315 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]   DJJ  [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
316 
330 FOR SALE: TRS MODEL 100; COMPLETE 
331 SYSTEM INCLDING AC ADAPT;MODEM 
332 CABLE;CENTRONICS CABLE; INSTUCT-
333 TION MANUAL;DOWJONES AND COMPUSERVE
334 TIME;BASIC LANG. MANUAL;A C ADAPTER
335 CALL KEVIN @ 253 0844 OR LEAVE
336 NAME AND NUMBER
337 
338 
339 ----------------------------------------
340 "REAL GENEROSITY TOWARD THE FUTURE LIES 
341 IN GIVING ALL TO THE PRESENT."
342                 -ALBERT CAMAS
343 
344 
345 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
346 "REAL GENEROSITY TOWARD THE FUTURE LIES 
347 IN GIVING PRESENTS TO ALL."
348                ST. NICHOLAS
349 
350 -----------------------------------------
351 suppose we had a choise ****
352 how would we know what to do
353 but it would give some satisfaction
354 to know that it is your own damn fault
355 anybody have a spare thumb
356 
357 
358 
359 
360 #%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%
361  TO ALL: I AM DOING A BIOLOGY TERM PAPER ON EVOLUTION vs. CREATION. I WOULD
362 LIKE ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE SUBJECT IF YOU CARE TO GIVE THEM. THE HELP WILL 
363 BE GREATLY EPRECIATED BY MY PARTNER AND I WHO ARE SHARING THIS DEBATE-TYPE 
364 PAPRER.                  THANKS ALOT ....
365    
366 #%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%--JODY--#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%#%
367 
368 
369 ALL: PORTLAND, AND SEATTLE/TACOMA ARE PROBABLY NOT TARGETED FOR THEIR MILITA
370 --------------------------------------------------------------------------
371 Aaron:
372 Just a note on your proposed system.  Although as a long time "lurker"
373 (I've been calling in to this and other systems for about 3 years) I do
374 not meet your criteria for membership, I would like to offer some 
375 constructive criticism.  Someone earlier on mentioned the possibility of
376 the board stagnating.  You might consider a limited access to outsiders
377 (a "trial period" for newcomers).  In this way you might find others who
378 would be compatible with your membership.  I have noticed that people come
379 and go in this strange environment.  Anyone remember the starcom bb or 
380 games people play?  You might find that limiting the access eliminates the
381 hassles that caused ABBS to be taken down, but you might eliminate some 
382 of the benifits too.
383 At any rate-- good luck and I do wish you great success.
384 -----------------------Dusty-----------------------------------------------
385 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
386 Jody, you haven't answered my questions about Saturday the 26th. There
387 is a message for you on the other drive (DB), that maybe you haven't had
388 a chance to read yet. Please do and answer? Merci.
389 Regarding your paper, you missed the big debate here on that subject a few
390 weeks ago. It was really something! To start it again would to really
391 open a can of worms, but good luck! I know how tough it is somethimes
392 to write papers like that. Bon chance!
393 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Luke |||||||||||||||||||||
394 To whoever...Why won't Portland be a target. First someone says it will
395 be, and then someone else says it won't. Just because there are no
396 military targets here doesn't mean we are still not a target. I'm sure
397 there are enough warheads lying around for every major population center
398 in the country, and Portland certainly falls into that category(unfortunatly
399 )
400 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Luke - again ||||||||||||||||||
401 
402 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
403 
404   Aaron,
405     I vote for "M.T. BOTTLE & DELI " on Hayden Island. Its a nice deli -cum-
406 tavern- very informal the individual who runs it is most tolerant of eccentric
407 people and by virtue of its restaurant status minors are allowed. Besides 
408 they make great Pastrami 
409     As for your BBS .... count me in
410 
411 DJJ, et all
412    Portland << IS >> a military target. We host two companys who contribute
413 significantly to the Defense establishment and several smaller companys that
414 provide avionics & electronics
415    1.  Boeing 
416    2.  Precision Castparts
417 and  Tektronix , Intel , Flight Dynamics Floating Point not to mention anything
418 about Swan Island shipyard or the Port of Portland .........
419 Enough said.....depressing as it is
420   
421 ::::::::::::::::Alex::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
422 P.S. Any night except ( Friday ) or weekend is OK
423 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
424 DEAR COMPUTERNERD ;
425 I MEET YOU AT THE JUNE CES IN PORTLAND AND MY LIFE HAS NEVER BEEN THE SAME!
426 PLEASE TALK TO ME, I CANT GO ON LIKE THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
427 WILL YOU BE AT THE PIZZA PARTY????????
428 I HOPE TO SEE YOU...............
429    A.P.U.
430 
431 [][][]  Am I one of those lurkers? [][][]
432 To Mikey,
433 
434 Did the documentation I provided you help?  I am waiting for a good 
435 file transfer program.  Hope to see you soon.
436 
437 PS - Anyone know of a cave I can hid in, for about a year.  I dont like
438 loud noises.
439 
440 [][][] Billy [][][]
441 ..............................................................
442 tHE place alex spoke of sounds intruiging. Sounds like just th
443 e place for a bunch of backwaters like us. Hayden island is a
444 little far, and I can see that being trouble for some, but
445 I bet we could arrange some kind of car pool for those who
446 couldn't come otherwise. What do the rest of you think?
447 I for one am lookign forward to 'The Day After', and hence am
448 reserving any more comment until after the movie.
449 ...........The dropped Bit....................................
450 
451     <<<  Where is DOM   >>>
452     <<< ?????????????   >>>
453 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
454 All:
455 I just talked to my friend Yuri at the Kremlin about the 
456 possibility of Portland being a bomb-able target for WW3.  He checked with the military, and found that somehow we were
457 omitted from the targeting lists.  I griped that we were being ignored, complained that the Russians just don't care, and
458 he then assured by that by this time next week, a couple of 10 megaton warheads would be reserved just for us Portlanders.
459 (Actually, I asked if one could be sent to Beaverton, too.  He said OK.)
460 So don't worry, we won't be left out.
461 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon ::::::::::::::::::::
462 
463 Actually, from what I've heard, they plan for an air burst of 20 megatons
464 right over the Sylvan area, so both Portland and Beaverton will be
465 taken care of.
466 -------------------------------------------------------------------------
467 **********************************************************
468 BILLY, YES. WHEN CAN I BORROW YOUR MACHINE TO GET IT GOING?
469 ********** CISTOP MIKEY **** 18 NOV 83 ***** 11:00PM *******
470 WILL SOMEONE PLEASE REVEAL TIME AND PLACE OF THID ""PIZZA PARTY""??????????
471 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
472 It would seem to me unimportant whether a few or no one survived the bomb.
473 Last I heard the Russians, and the USA also, have several thousand nukes
474 each, ant that easily leaves a few for good ol' River City, or even Portland
475 ,Or. Of course many, even most would not work, but enough would to make 
476 it hell on earth. If the dust calculations are right, we freeze, if the
477 effect on O3 (yup, no subscripts)<ozone> is even close we cook; the expected
478 radiation dose is about 300 rems average, meaning if evenly spread maybe
479 only 1/4th will die. Not to worry, only one forth, mostly in the cities,
480 is about 60 million in the USA. But these deaths are unimportant, the
481 destruction of commerce will make cities uninhabitable anyway; those who
482 reamin will starve: a typical US city has only about a week's supply of 
483 food. A few air bursts in late summer could burn most of the wheat and
484 corn crops, just like burning cities. Any large population area can support
485 troops, so it IS a valid military target. However, the purpose of destroying
486 the enemy is to scare the survivors off, and letting them know you will
487 bomb anything and anybody is very scary. A small city (maybe Portland) could
488 be a good object lesson to the enemy; let him known you really mean it.
489 By the way, a survivable war implies at least a few million left, it also
490 suggests a continuing war. The fallout from the Russian and US bombs is
491 estimated at 10 to 30 beaches (On the Beach was a pretty accurate descript
492 ion ); if even 90% of the bombs fail, it is still by by.
493 Now, perhaps a sideline: if nukes are the way to the war to end wars, 
494 because there will be no one left to fight, what do you do if you need a
495 deadly threat to stop someone from taking over the world? I rather like
496 nerve gas, at least someone on the other side of the world might survive.
497 
498 Actually, it might be better to read Luke and Jody's love talk than read
499 about death. No, it would be. I think we have beat this topic to death.
500 OUCH!! 
501 //////////////////////////BAD\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\11-19-83////0332 am\\\\\\\\\\
502 REALITY IS FINDING YOURSELF DOING THE VERY THING YOU DENOUNCED
503 AS A YOUTH...............
504 
505 The 80-Plus BBS at 771-4413 is a nighttime only BBS.  The phone line is a 
506 business line from 9am to 6pm.  We really appreciate all you folks who 
507 are using the system and most of you who observe the posted hours.
508 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXthanks, 80_Plus sysopXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
509 
510 OLD AGE IS FINDING OUT YOU REALLY DON'T CARE ANYMORE.
511 
512 
513 ********************************************************************************
514 
515 Does anyone know, or would like to comment about the increase military air
516 traffic over the Portland Int. Airport???
517 
518 I live only a few miles away (about 3), and they travel overhead quite often.
519 
520 
521 
522 .....the Sysm
523 
524 ********************************************************************************
525 .......................................................................
526 WELwELL tomorrow is the big day for the day after movie. I can't believe
527 all the publicity this movie has generatel. It will most likely be one
528 o the most watched shows in recent history. Today's Oregonian Forum page
529 contained 3 articles on the movie on 1 page. I think we will have plenty
530 to discuss after the movie airs.
531 By the way, has anyone noticed Luke and Jody haven't been
532 on here in a while? Is the romance over already?
533 ..........The dropped Bit.............................................
534 In the waning hours of the day I come to the Inn for solice, yet all that
535  find is fear, death, and waste. What has happened to my beloved Inn?
536 Where are my friends? Where even are my enemies? Have you forsaken this
537 humble Inn to leave it a dusty hollow shell of what it once was?
538 My heart is sadened to see this emptyness. Where are you my friends?
539 Where have you gone? Will you not return to once again breath life into
540 this empty shell? 
541 ********* The Inn keeper of the Backwater Inn ***************************
542 |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
543 Well poor Inn keeper, I am sorry to see you are depressed because of the
544 current state of the Inn. I wish I could answer your questions regarding
545 your friends(and your enemies). I can only say I still enjoy coming to
546 the Inn, although I too am a little depressed. My fair maiden Jody has
547 fled the city in search of better times. She will be back someday I hope,
548 but in the meantime, I will remain in this melecholy state. I hope your
549 friends return, but in the meantime, take solace, there are those of us
550 who do remain, and do care, and hope the Inn never goes away and remains
551 in its current location for years to come...
552 ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| Luke ||||||||||||||||||||||
553 
554 
555 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
556 
557      OH INKEEPER, MANY OF US ARE FILLED WITH FEAR AND LOATHING, FOR WE 
558 STAND ON THE EDGE OF AN ABYSS.  THE WAY BEHIND IS BLOCKED BY THE SELFISH,
559 THE POWER-HUNGRY, AND THE EVIL.  OUR PATH IS DEFINED BY THE MAUNDERINGS
560 OF THE ELDERLY DESPOTS OF THE SOVIET EMPIRE AND THE SENILE DEMENTIA OF 
561 OUR OWN SHOOT-FROM-THE-HIP COWBOY LEADER.  OCCASIONALLY, MY DREAMS ARE
562 HAUNTED BY THE SPECTRE OF MISSILES EXPLODING FROM SILOS LIKE ROTTING
563 ZOMBIES RISING FROM DANK, PUTRESCENT TOMBS AT THE COMMAND OF THEIR WICKED
564 MASTERS.  I HOPE THE INN MAY SOON RETURN TO IT'S FORMER LIVELY BANTER,
565 BUT NOW IT APPEARS THAT MANY ARE IN MOURNING FOR WHAT MAY BE THE DEATH 
566 OF CIVILIZATION.                                                      
567 SIGH....
568                                                                        
569      SOME NIGHTS IT CAN BE LONELY, ESPECIALLY WHEN THE RANK SMELL OF
570 FEAR PERMIATES THE WORLD.  IT'S GOING TO BE A SLEEPLESS NIGHT IN A COLD,
571 LONELY BED.
572 
573 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM-[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
574 
575 Pam:  You'd make a wonderful straight-man.  I'll pass on that line, tho
576 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Anon :::::::::::::
577 mike, yes modem deal still churning from my end. tacoma club now wants in.
578 i have enough people for qty 25 or will buy extras myself. what is the
579 total price with $17 a chip for the whole kit? if you cant find the parts
580 or whatever i was thinking about making a quantity purchase from that
581 outfit advertising public domain design modems put together from the 
582 designs in byte magazine. these are about $60 in quantities of 1 already
583 put together. do you think these would be any good?
584 ...........................................................................
585 MIKEY, I THINK THE PROBLEM HERE MAY BE THAT EXPERTISE IN WARPLANES AND
586 MISSILES DOESN'T HELP RESOLVE THE QUESTIONS. THE RELEVANT INFORMATION IS
587 MOSTLY FROM CLIMATOLOGY, GEOLOGY, BIOLOGY, MEDICINE,AND ECOLOGY.
588 
589 MOST PEOPLE WILL NOT BE CONVINCED BY APPEALS TO A BELIEF IN THE EXPERTISE
590 OF THE MILITARY. RATHER THE OPPOSITE.
591 
592 NOTE THAT IN NATURE THERE IS ATTENUATION OF EFFECT, AS YOU SAID. THERE ARE
593 ALSO MANY EXAMPLES OF THRESHOLD LEVELS, OVER WHICH ECOSYSTEMS COLLAPSE.
594 NOTE THAT IN CASE OF NUCLEAR WAR WE COULD BE TALKING ABOUT THE EFFECTS OF
595 20,000 MT ST HELENS EXPLOSIONS. ST HELENS WAS RATED AT THE 12 MEGATON 
596 LEVEL.
597 
598 HOWEVER, THE MAJORITY OF PEOPLE WOULD DIE MUCH SOONER THAN THE ECOSYSTEM,
599 FROM THE COLLAPSE OF OUR INFRASTRUCTURE. NO ANTIBIOTICS, NO HOSPITALS, NO
600 DOCTORS, NO RAT CONTROL. NO FOOD. NO WATER, NO HEAT, NO ROOF OVER THE HEAD.
601 AND NO EXPERIENCE IN DEALING WITH THIS. NOT TO MENTION THAT NEARLY ALL 
602 PEOPLE IN LARGE CITIES (AS LARGE AS SALEM) IN THIS COUNTRY AND EURASIA
603 WOULD BE DEAD IN THE FIRST HALF HOUR. THEN THERE'S THE COAST-TO-COAST FIRE
604 STORM TO DEAL WITH.
605 
606 OF COURSE MOST OR ALL OF THESE SCENARIOS MAY NOT DEVELOP TO THE FULLEST
607 EXTENT POSSIBLE. THATS NO REASON TO BET AGAINST IT. 
608 
609 IN THAT CONNECTION, THE RELEVANT MATH IS REALLY THAT FOUND IN A BRANCH OF
610 GAMBLING STATISTICAL THEORY CALLED "PROBABILITY OF RUIN". THE BASIC
611 TENET OF THE THEORY IS THAT YOU CANNOT BET YOUR LAST DOLLAR. OR LIFE. OR
612 WORLD. NO MATTER THAT YOU MAY BE RELATIVELY SURE THE OTHER GUY REALLY
613 DOESNT HAVE A STRAIGHT FLUSH.
614 
615 BECAUSE OF THE STAKES INVOLVED, IN OTHER WORDS, THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS
616 NOT ON THE ANTI-NUCLEARS. IT'S ON THOSE WHO WOULD LET THE PRESENT SYSTEM 
617 CONTINUE.
618 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HROTHGAR, THE PESSIMIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
619 ************************************************************
620 I agree . Too much is being said on the one topic.
621 Radio,television,bus stop it doesnt seem to matter
622 But i guess its current events
623 
624 
625 
626 Tomarrow morning Im getting up early and taking a hike up along
627 Terwiliger. There is a beautiful view of the city from there.
628 If the sun comes up and its clear you cant find a more inspiring picture
629 Good luck to all see you next disk***Beverly