textfiles/messages/BACKWATER/bw830918.txt

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1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask......
2 *********************** REMOVED: 18 SEP 83 ****************************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day System operator
4 ************************************************************
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
6                     THIS SYSTEM.
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
12 right to remove any and all messages which I may find offensive
13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
20 use the replace command to replace the line.
21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
23 ========================================
24 
25 Mikey: Since most of the time a /0 error happens at a time when you
26 want a very LARGE number as a result (if not, please tell me what
27 on earth (or elsewhere) you are doing!) I think the interpreter
28 should return some LARGE # as the answer (preferably some number
29 that can't be gotten any other way). I'd like to define some
30 "non-valid" bit pattern (most BASICS have at LEAST one) in a numeric
31 variable as "infinity" (or whatever). This would be similar to
32 some Basics that have a defined variable "PI". This way you could
33 get a "valid" answer AND be able to test for the /0 "error" without
34 messing with error trapping subroutines (a simple IF A = INFINITY THEN...).
35 
36 DOM: Almost ANY machine with a Microsoft BASIC will have error
37 trapping routines. I KNOW that the following machines have them:
38 TRS-80 Model I (Level II & Disk BASICs only)
39 TRS-80 Model II
40 TRS-80 Model III (same restriction as Model I)
41 TRS-80 Models 4,12&16
42 TRS-80 Color Computer (EXTENDED BASIC only)
43 TRS-80 Model 100
44 Apple II
45 
46 The following machines do NOT have Error trapping (ie ON ERROR GOSUB ):
47 ZX-80 & 81
48 Timex Sinclair 1000
49 PET 2001
50 
51 If I didn't mention a system, then I don't know. I SUSPECT that
52 the VIC-20 & C-64 don't support error trapping.
53 ONE FOR THE TRS-80!!!!!!!!!    TRON.... The Mad TRS-80 fan!
54 Now as for the "Sub-Atomic S*xuality" discussion: Please remember
55 to take into account the lastest Quark discoveries. Should Pauli
56 exclude particles merely because they are "strange"? What effect
57 does "charm" play in the love life of the proton? And what about
58 "truth" & "beauty"?
59 		STAY TUNED FOR THE ANSWERS TO THESE QUESTIONS IN
60 THE NEXT EPISODE OF "QUANTUM DEGENERACY"!! (c) 1983 all rights etc.
61 
62 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
63 
64 Who is the above person??  Has Signed resumed his previous identity of 
65 Unsigned or is there another unsigned in our midst?  In any event, thanks 
66 for the above info (regarding error trapping).
67  
68 I am looking foreward to the above mentioned lecture.
69 
70 I STILL WANT TO KNOW HOW TO ROLL MAKIZUSHI, any suggestions?
71 
72                 Dirty
73 
74 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
75 TO DOM: GET HIM DRUNK FIRST (OOOOH SO BAD A JOKE)
76 TO MIKEY: AGREE COMPLETELY WITH /0=0. MOST APPLICATIONS ARE BUSINESS
77 ORIENTED, WHERE WHAT ONE WANTS IS A RATE OR PERCENTAGE, E.G. 
78 WHOLESALE COST/#UNITS IN INVENTORY=AVERAGE COST AVERAGE COST HERE
79 SHOULD BE ZERO IN MOST APPLICATIONS IF THERE CURRENTLY ARE NONE IN INVENT-
80 ORY. HOWEVER THIS WOULD NOT BE TRUE IN SCIENTIFIC OR ENGINEERING APPLI-
81 CATIONS, AND THE RESULT GIVEN SHOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO THE GENERAL USE
82 OF A SYSTEM.
83 TO BAD: HAVE READ ISSUE REFERRED TO, QUITE INTERESTING, ARE YOU A FIG MEMBER
84 TO DOM: THATS OK DOM NO PROBLEM. SEE NEXT MESSAGE.
85 
86 TO ALL: CAN REACH ME THROUGH SOURCEMAIL AT STI194, CAN GET ME ON COMPUSERVE
87 AT  CHATTER OR CB OCCASIONALLY UNDER THIS MONIKER.
88 
89 TO ALL: EVRYTHING ELSE ON WANG 1200 MODELS STANK, BUT ONE NICE THING THEY
90 DID HAVE WAS THE ABILITY TO (ON SOME VERSIONS) GET VERY PRECISE CONTROL
91 OVER ERRORS, FOR EXAMPLE BRANCHING TO A PARTICULAR LINE OR ROUTINE IF A
92 PARTICULAR ERROR NUMBER ON A PARTICULAR LINE OCCURRED. OTHER MACHINES HAVE
93 ALSO HAD VERY GOOD ERROR CONTROL BUT THE OPERATING SYSTEMS ON THESE MICROS
94 WON'T BE UP TO THIS TYPE OF THING TILL EVERYONE HAS HARD DISK, I SUSPECT.
95 
96 I THINK 5.75 AN HOUR IS EXPENSIVE, LET ALONE $100/HOUR. IN A SOCIETY 
97 WHERE ACCESS TO TRAINING AND OTHER INFORMATION IS SO VITAL, WE SHOULD
98 STRIVE TO MAKE SHURE ALL MEMBERS OF SOCIETY HAVE ACCESS TO IT. A POOR
99 KID SHOULD AT LEAST BE ABLE TO GO TO THE LIBRARY AND HAVE ACCESS TO THIS
100 STUFF THERE FOR FREE. THE LIBRARY COULD PAY SOME FEE LIKE THEY DO WITH 
101 BOOKS. HOW ABOUT A BUCK AN HOUR FOR NETWORK ACCESS FROM THE HOME?
102 ))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))BATPOOP, THE MAGNIFICENT++++++++++++++++++++
103 [{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|
104 O melancholy poet, O betrodden one, thou hast inspired me:
105 
106 It flows like a river, rapid, but seemingly never ending,
107 Though the stones beneath the surface may be cold, jagged and piercing,
108 Only the smallest of ripples can be seen from above.
109 
110 It wails as the brisk winds in the forest in Autumn,
111 Forceful and destructive, yet to be heard only from within,
112 To one who watches from a distance, there is only the gentle bowing of the trees.
113 
114 It roars like the thunder on a warm September night,
115 To those who are close, the warning is clear,
116 But the time to beware is past, for ligtning has already struck.
117 
118 Then a leaf is torn from the tree by the wind,
119 Falling into the river, it is barely able to remain afloat,
120 Because the ripples so small now seem so big.
121 
122                                                        =Apollo=
123 [{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|[{[{(*)}]|
124 
125 what complete bullshit. How can anyone person spew forth so much of it ? 
126 wonders will never cease...unfortunately.
127 
128 
129 IIIIIIIIIIIII
130 
131 
132 I#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC
133 II#AP230,CC,B,DT,CI,HC
134 IIIII#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC
135 SO THATS WHAT 'ESC I' DOES!
136 WHAT DOES #AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC  MEAN ?
137 
138 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
139 
140 Its amazing, its astounding!!!
141 Batpoop agrees with mikey.  I agree with Batpoop regarding scientific
142 applications, and since I haven't the slightest business background I am
143 willing to concede that he is probably right on that point also.  I percieve
144 that Aaron, Unsigned (or Signed as the case may be) and BAD are also scien-
145 tific/engineering types who may be willing to make the same concession.
146 If so, this means that we are all (at least all who have expressed an opinion
147 on the matter) TOTALLY, WHOLLY, ENTIRELY, UTTERLY, COMPLETELY,
148 UNFLINCHINGLY, WITHOUT THE SLIGHTEST RESERVATION:
149 
150                   >>>>>IN AGREEMENT!!!<<<<<
151 
152               Isn't this boring?            Dirty Ol' Man
153 
154 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
155 I
156 
157 ^^-^^^-^^^^^-^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-^^-^^^-^^^^^
158 (un)signed, With your attitude of "I know the answer, but I'm not going to tell
159 you!  So there. Nya!", I sincerely hope that you are not involved in research!
160 The strain and mental anguish it would cause you to turn in a report, even 
161 worse if something should get published where where we, the ignorant people,
162 could get hold of it, would be too cruel.
163 SINCERELY YOURS                                                     THE DOCTOR
164 ^^-^^^-^^^^^-^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^^^-^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^-^^-^^^-^^^^^
165 [{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|
166    O thou uncultured one:
167 
168    How perceivest thou thy pass,
169    With thine head up thine @!#%*?
170 
171           =Apollo=
172 [{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|[{(*)}]|
173 IT WOULD SO SEEM THAT THERE MAY BE INDEED AN AGREEMENT OF SORTS.
174 SAY, HOW ABOUT WE SUE FOR OPTIONAL ZERO HANDLING? I GET ZERO RET
175 THE ENGINEERING TYPES GET INFINITY, AND EVERYBODY ELSE GETS ERRORS!
176 OR IS IT ME WHO GETS ALL THE ERRORS?
177 ********* CISTOP MIKEY ********* 13 SEPT 83 ****** 4:25 ************
178 ?????????
179 Well here goes.  Hi everybody.  I'm not quite a new user, since i have been
180 reading messages on this thing for a few months.  But I finally decided to
181 stick my big toe in the water and chance a message.  I really like the format
182 of this system, and all the interesting people around.  I guess the
183 informalness of the format lets people really be themselves.
184 There really are some sharp people around here.  You know who you are.  I'll
185 try to keep up with the current discussion, whatever that is.
186 
187 As to the discussion of /0.  I've programmed for a few years, and have 
188 occasionally been zapped by /0.  But I don't think it should hide the error
189 by returning infinity, especially it because it cant anyway.  And returning
190 0 would hide the error, maybe surfacing later in even more strange ways.
191 Sure, its no fun getting an error message, but a program that tries to divide
192 by zero is already doing something wrong, and an error message might be useful.
193 
194 I guess a good analogy is that of type checking in compilers.  In some languages
195 like Pascal the variables are strongly typed, meaning you cant get away with
196 anything.  In others, like LISP, you can get into all sorts of trouble.
197 I dont know which I prefer, but the protection of checking can make debugging
198 easier.
199 Well, there you are!  I did it!  Since most of you seem to have some kind of
200 handle, now that I'm conversing, I will too.  I dont know how you select yours,
201 but here goes.
202 ----------------------------------------------- P. V. Jeltz-------------------
203 To: Robert   From: Art
204 Your harder to get a hold of then a greased fish.
205 cul
206 ```````````````````''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
207 But probably a lot less disgusting.
208 ```````````````````''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
209 I#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC
210 I#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC
211 I#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC
212 I#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC
213 I#AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC
214 
215 
216 
217 HMMMM
218 
219 IT WORKS!
220 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
221   in the presence of an auto mechanic, one would not say "gee...whats the
222  feasibility of running a car on table salt?"      or, say, in a bakery
223  "how 'bout using WD-40 to keep those muffins from sticking?"
224 
225  stupid? impossible?            Yes, no one would ask those questions.
226 
227  BUT............
228 
229  "why cant i hook my rs-232 directly into the phone lines without a
230  modem? I mean, at 1200 baud the signals are well within the audio
231  range and therefore it should be possible to transmit them over a 
232  voice line"
233 
234  OR.............
235 
236  "whats wrong with pulling that ram card out with the power on?"
237 
238  "can I abort a disk write operation by turning the drive off?"
239 
240  "why does my computer say "SYNTAX ERROR" when I type in "tell
241  me how old I am"?"
242 
243  to someone unfamiliar (to various degrees) with computers, these
244  are INTELLIGENT, VALID, AND DEFINATLY WORTH ASKING questions. You
245  would not stand up and say "boy, you have no business owning a 
246  computer, you mental neanderthal." (or would you?) I think that
247  I can safely say that no one using BWMS would. (why? probably 
248  because we can remember when we would have (or did!) ask those
249  questions)
250 
251  BUT...........
252 
253  what if the person asking those questions did so at the AI SIG
254 meeting?
255 
256  or this person was the EDP manager for your office?
257 
258  surprise hardly qualifies !   (a quick check with Roget's......)
259   stupefaction ,agahst, awe-struck, flabergasted  might,though.......
260 
261 espicially if:
262 
263  You had gatherd a group a people together, strangers yet sharing a 
264 common bond: their quest for knowledge, their enjoyment of a challenge,
265 their love of intelligent company. As you sit siping your coffee, 
266 discussing, say, business applications of the C64 within a small sub-
267 group, while other sub-groups (all in your living room) (rather cozy,
268 informal, just some acquaintances shooting the breeze about all and
269 everything, from politics to poetry) discuss all else, someone pipes
270 up with (he's not in your sub-group, but he's on the couch in front
271 of you and seems to be speaking in rather loud tones) 
272 "wow! you guys wanna try something neat? run your finger up and down
273 the PC board of your micro and watch for a lightshow! in fact, if you
274 shuffle you feet across the carpet first, it might even be neater! I
275 do it all the time and WOW! you guys otta! "
276 and concludes with:
277 "it hasnt hurt my computer a bit! "
278 you might be able to stay in your seat and keep your comments to a 
279 muffled giggle. We wouldn't want to throw a damper on things, so OK,
280 its his oppinion and its FINE. You continue with your smalltalk, p
281 eraps with your ears just a little more attuned to the voices carring
282 over from the sub-group in front of you. Everythings fine. That is,
283 until you here :
284 "wow! neat! i think ill try that tonite!"
285   and...
286 "gee! what a neat observation! i agree! that might be fun!"
287 
288 Now, if you could stop screaming "ARGH! DONT DONT DONT NO NO NO!"
289 for a second, and "IMBICILE !  WHAT ARE YOU TELLING THESE PEOPLE! "
290 and "YOU SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED A COMPUTER, YOU MENTAL NEANDERTHAL!",
291 you would notice that you very QUICKLY changed the WHOLE tone of the
292 evening; its not fun anymore. In fact, your words fell upon deaf ears;
293 they closed the NANO-SECOND you began your abusive (yet justifiable)
294 commentary, and were wasted, you should have said nothing, THE RESULT
295 would have been the same as it will be; these people will simply
296 destroy there computers.
297 
298 well, well.....what has been accomplished? NOTHING except DAMAGE
299 
300 you pipe up "well, what COULD i have done?"
301 
302 the answer? well, lets start with where the problem started. and where
303 is that? when the first hopless said "finger the PC for a good time"
304 if you had said :
305 "excuse me, but i think that that would be detremental to your 
306 computer, sir"
307 
308 you might get in responce
309 
310 "gee really? just who are you? what makes you a know-it-all? "
311 
312 which does not help the situation at all.......
313 
314 often the response will be:
315 
316 "Why?"
317 
318 do you feel like discussing the mechanics of CMOS breakthru and
319 leakage enhancement? probably not (at least with this fellow)
320 so......
321 
322 "because it damages the internals of your computer"
323 
324 so far you have been responsible... you have
325 a)  POLITELY alerted the person to a fallicy in his concepts
326 b) offered an explanation THAT IS APPROPRIATE TO BOTH THE
327     ENVIRONMENT AND THE LEVEL OF THE SUBJECT.
328 
329 your responsibility is complete, the ball is in his hands now...
330 
331  yet the "enlightend" (supposedly) users of BW are failing at these
332 points.....a) is not accomplished POLIETLY and  often b) is ignored,
333 because of the fealing of "this jerk dosnt deserve an answer, if he
334 dosent accept my superior knowledge, so be it" or "im to busy to 
335 get into a fruitless discussion with this rookie"
336 
337 so solution 1 is for those of us that think we a just a little better
338 (or alot!) to strive to points a and b. i know i fail often....yet
339 there is ALWAYS another chance to succede..
340 
341 well, i said that the ball is in his court now, and it is...
342 
343 if he, to start with said the "just who are you, and you are 
344 certainly CLOSE-MINDED about new ideas..." line after you
345 r polite interjection, he has fumbled already......
346 
347 It is the RESPONSIBILITY for EVERYONE to realise that there are
348 people WHO KNOW MORE THAN THEY..(gulp! that hard for even me to
349 swallow!) maybe if i rephrase.....
350 
351 It is the RESPONSIBILITY for EVERYONE to at least LISTEN to those
352 who are TRYING to help you! (via superior knowledge or not!)
353 
354 so....lets assume are hopless did perk up with a "WHY?" and you
355 came up with the "because".....
356 
357 our hopless now has the choice of deciding.....
358 
359 1) you dont know of which you speak
360 2) you do know of which you speak
361 3) i need more information
362 
363 if he takes choice one:
364  he procedes to talk of such things,ignores your warning....
365 
366 well, thats OK    (repeat...OK)
367 
368  BUT! he certainly should not be PO'ed if you still take 
369 exception......
370 
371 choice 2:
372 
373 well ok, youve won, just dont let it go to your head
374 
375 
376 he takes choice 3:
377 
378  you have the option of discussing it further with him,OR NOT !
379 
380 if you choose to explain further....all the better
381 
382 but if you choose not to, it is certainly your chioce, and it
383 would be unreasonable for him to go flapping
384 
385 "well XXX wouldnt explian it so i dont beleive him and he dumb
386 and ugly and sucks slug s---"
387 
388 
389 It is the CORRECTEE'S RESPONSIBILITY to realize that not everybody
390 has the time or inclanation to explian the basics of plasma nucleonics,
391  marxism, or AI.
392 
393 
394 
395 sooo.......... that concludes that so i can do a 
396 ENDIF (remember the "espicially if" way up there? oh,well i cant either)
397 
398 MAYBE, thru these examples, one can gain an insight why there is such
399 a violent reaction on BW when someone says something like "people can
400 travel to alternate dimensions through a black hole" (i KNOW noone
401 said that,i just trying to take a little of my own medicine and avoid
402 getting personal)..........
403 
404 a conclusion?     well,ok..........
405 
406  We all are intellegent, no question about it. If we can EACH remember
407 that EVERYONE else here has both a BRAIN   AND    EMOTIONS to accompny
408 it, that would be a good start.Want even a better start? 
409 
410 The differnce between acting like HUMAN 1983  and HUMAN 1389 is 
411 neglidgable in energy expendened, yet ENORMOUS in benifits 
412 derived therfrom.
413 
414 
415 and of course an apology is due to the users who have to tolerate
416 my +150 line diatribe, i just felt it was time for a change to 
417 a happy and productive environment here at the inn........
418 
419                                                    Aaron
420 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
421 *******************
422 
423 Boy, that didn't sound like Aaron to me.
424                                DP
425 *******************
426 
427 ============================================
428 hi jim
429          joeduck
430 ============================================
431 go ducks, go go go go go go go go ducks !!!!
432 
433     this message brought to you courtesy of joeduck
434 
435 ============================================
436 BP: no, I am not a FIG leafer, I prefer C.
437 The worst thing program can do when handed garbage is return something
438 that looks good, but isn't, so on /0 I prefer a certain error exit, but
439 the program should NOT crash like most basics do. No the VIC has no 
440 on error goto, so you must do your zero checking before you try to divide
441 by it. Please would someone tell me when 0 would be a valid response to
442 a/0? how do you tell this from 0/a?
443 
444 Who winterizes computers?
445 ///////////////////////BAD  0531:14-9-83\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
446 Oops.
447 
448 I'm gone for only a few days, and look what happens.  A firestorm.  I see blood all around.  But I'd like to clear up some
449 apparent confusion.  Before, I didn't sign any messages, thinking that I was the only (almost only) one that did so.
450 But 3 days ago my computer fell into a deep slumber (I was careless) and couldn't log on.  Fine.  Great.  It seems that
451 along came somebody who also didn't sign their messages.  I can't accuse anyone of attempting to forge a non-signature,
452 can I, but the result was an obvious mess.  I fear the s**t will fall on me.
453 What do I do?  It was my mistake in the first place, since I should have made my messages more identifiable.  So I will adopt
454 a nom-de-plume, an AKA, an alias, whatever.  Maybe that will stem the tide of confusion.
455 
456 	I am anonymous, so I will be ANONYMOUS.  By this appelation, I not only identify myself, sort of, but I also become
457 the single most prolific source of poetry in the English language (you know, Anon.)    (another oops; no, I have never put
458 poetry on this system, and will never)
459 	I hope this clears up the confusion, or at least part of it.
460 
461 	Once I thought that all messages over 50 lines should be banned.  But the long message above 
462 proves that I was wrong.  Thanks, Aaron.
463 
464 						Anonymous
465 ___________________________________________________________________________
466 TRON!! DON'T overwrite my msgs! (besides the only reason most of the
467 machines listed are TRS-80s is because those are what I had info on!)
468 I am the person who wrote the section from the beginning of the
469 disk (ln 25) to the (c) notice for QUANTUM DEGENERACY (R). Except
470 (except for the line TRON added in the middle). Apparently my
471 signature got "lost". Oh well.....
472 	Now for an applicable quote:
473 
474 	On any matter not self-evident there are ninety-nine persons totally incapable of understanding it for one who is capable;
475 and the capacity of the hundredth person is only comparitive, for the majority of the eminent men of every past generation
476 held many opinions now known to be erroneous, and did or approved numerous things which no one will attempt to justify...... 
477 In the case of any person whose judgement is really deserving of confidence, how has it become so? Because he has felt that
478 the only way in which a human being can make some approach to knowing the whole of a subject is by hearing what can be said of
479 it by persons of every opinion, and studying all modes in which it can be looked at in every character of mind.
480 		John Stuart Mill, "On Liberty" 1859
481 
482 
483 Now  #AP230,CC,PB,DT,CB,HC in response to ESC I means that you are
484 running an APPLE using VIDTEX. ESC I is the CIS terminal identification
485 code prompt. I'm not sure what ALL of it means, but CC means your
486 machine supports the CIS Cursor Control ESC sequences. PB means
487 that you support their protocol B transfer (used in ACCESS). I 
488 don't know what the rest of them mean but they all are coded info
489 for the CIS computers. I have a TRS-80 Model III & my sequence is
490 #RS633,CC,CW,G4,PB,CB,DT,HC (note: in the code on the disk says
491 233, not 633) CW is control width (64 or 32 char screen). G4 is a
492 LOW res graphics mode (color), my machine "simulates" the colors.
493 If you wish, I'll see if HC, CB, & DT are in my notes. (WARNING:
494 VIDTEX allows EXTENSIVE remote control of your machine. The screen
495 and/or keyboard can be enabled/disabled, the buffer can be opened
496 closed or zeroed, ALL REMOTELY! Worse, if someone knows how, they
497 can enable the prtocol b transfer & access your disks!)
498 _________________________Leonard___________________________
499 
500 PHOTO EQUIPMENT FOR SALE-A NIKON 35 MM-ALPS AUTO TELE-CONVERTER,2X
501 MULTI-COATED WITH NIKON LENS SERIES E 50MM(1:1.8)AND A VIVITAR MACRO
502 FOCUSING (FULL)ZOOM LENS-75-205MM(1:3.8)-PRICE FOR ALL,200.00 OR BEST
503 OFFER-CALL RICK AT 287-xxxx.HAVE A GOOD ONE.........................
504 
505 
506 THANKS LEONARD..... IF THERE IS ONE THING I DISLIKE IT IS A TERMINAL PGM DOING THINGS BEHIND YOUR KEYBOARD....
507 
508 -RR-
509 
510 
511 )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))+
512   TO LEONARD: IS THERE ANYTHING YOU KNOW OF ON THE SOURCE AND COMPUSERVE
513 TO PROTECT ONESELF FROM TIME THIEVES CHARGING ONES ACCOUNT?
514   TO AARON: WAS THAT REALLY YOU?
515    
516   OK, HOW ABOUT THIS EXAMPLE OF 0/0 IF YOU DIDN'T LIKE THE LAST ONE. YOU
517 ARE A BUSINESSPERSON IN CHARGE OF PURCHASING. YOU WANT TO GET THE BEST RATE
518 OF 'TURNS' ON INVENTORY POSSIBLE, TO PRODUCE THE BEST POSSIBLE PROFIT FOR
519 YOUR DOLLARS AVAILABLE FOR INVENTORY. THE 'TURNS' ARE GIVEN BY 
520 UNITS SOLD/AVERAGE QUANTITY IN INVENTORY. IF A PRODUCT WAS OUT OF STOCK
521 THAT MONTH YOU STILL WANT IT ON THE REPORT, UNLESS THE ITEM HAS BEEN DIS-
522 CONTINUED. YOU MAY HAVE HAD ORDERS, WHICH BECOME BACKORDERS. THIS FIGURE
523 WILL APPEAR ON THE REPORT AS WELL. IF YOU HAD NO QUANTITY IN INVENTORY
524 YOU WILL HAVE HAD NO SALES. THUS YOU HAVE NO TURNS. 
525 0 TURNS=0 SALES/0 INVENTORY. THIS FIGURE IS MEANINGFUL, BECAUSE OF THE 
526 BACKORDER FIGURES. IF YOU HAD BACKORDERS, YOU MADE A MISTAKE IN HAVING
527 NO INVENTORY AND THUS NO SALES, BECAUSE PEOPLE WANTED TO BUY. THE 
528 SITUATION OF BACKORDERS WITH NO SALES BUT INVENTORY, A 'LEGAL' FORMULATION,
529 IS NOT GOING TO OCCUR (0 TURNS=0 SALES/SOME INVENTORY QUANTITY) BECAUSE
530 IF YOU HAD INVENTORY YOU WOULD HAVE HAD SALES. NOW BY LOOKING AT ONLY
531 TWO , PERHAPS ADJACENT, COLUMNS ON THE REPORT YOU CAN TELL FROM THE BACKORDER
532 COLUMN IF 0 TURNS MEANS NO INVENTORY (/0) WHEN THE BACKORDERS ARE POSITIVE.
533 IF BACKORDERS ARE 0 YOU CHECK INVENTORY TO ELIMINATE THE POSSIBILITY OF
534 'DEAD' ITEMS IN STOCK (MEANING HAVE A SALE). THIS IS ONE WAY YOU CAN NOT 
535 ONLY SAFELY IGNORE THE RESULT OF THE CALCULATION 0=0/0 BUT USE IT IN A
536 POSITIVE MANNER. THIS IS HOW IT IS OFTEN DONE. ON SOME COMPUTERS YOU
537 STILL NEED TO DO THE ERROR TRAPPING, HOWEVER, TO KEEP THE PROGRAM FROM
538 BLOWING UP AND FORCING AN OPERATER TO RESTART THE JOB.
539 )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))BATPOOP, THE MAGNIFICENT+++++++++++++
540 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
541 
542 Batpoop:  Thanks for the example.  As mentioned earlier I am about as adept
543 at business applications as a butterfly at scuba diving, so it will require
544 some pondering on my part.  In the mean time, your handle has reminded me
545 of a question which has been lurking in the back of my mind for quite some
546 time now.  Perhaps you or someone else with knowledge in this area can en-
547 lighten me.  Is it true that bats hang up side down in caves, and if so, how
548 do they release their biological by-product without getting very, very
549 messy?
550 
551                                               Dirty Ol' Man
552 
553 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
554 ------------------------------------------------------------------
555 Atari's also do error trapping, in fact the trap routine can
556 determine the particular error and the program line that the
557 error occured -- so that you can take the appropriate action
558 without bombing your program!
559 --------------Atari User (and proud of it)------------------------
560 Discrimination!  That's all we hear on this system! Discrimination.
561 Whenever any of you want to criticize someone, you always call him
562 a Neanderthal.  Well, for your information, the Cro Magnons I've 
563 talked to were just and dumb, ugly, mean, and violent as any
564 Neanderthal.  But they're not even given equal time.  I thought the
565 Fairness Doctrine Applied to this system, too.  Let's be fair, guys.
566 Call somebody a Cro-Magnon today, and even the score.
567 
568 	(The preceeding was a political announcement donated to
569 	the Cro-Magnon Equality Organization in reply to all
570 	the mentions of the Neanderthals.)
571 ------------------------------------------------------------------
572 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
573  yes, Batpoop, 'twas I..................
574 
575  BAD: any news on that strangness I gave you?
576                                                    Aaron
577 <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
578 
579 }[][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][]
580 ACTUALLY, NEANDERTHALS AND CRO-MAGNONS  HAD AVERAGE BRAIN SIZES LARGER THAN MEN TODAY.  THE NEANDERTHAL'S BRAIN WAS
581 EQUIVALENT TO MODERN MAN IN MOST AREAS, WITH THE INCREASE IN SIZE IN THE PART OF THE BRAIN DEDICATED TO EYESIGHT, WHILE
582 THE CRO-MAGNON'S BRAIN WAS LARGER IN THE FOREBRAIN AREA.  THIS DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY WERE SMARTER THAN MODERN HUMANS,
583 AS INTELLIGENCE IS DETERMINED BY A LOT  OF OTHER THINGS BESIDES ABSOLUTE SIZE,  SUCH AS THE NUMBER OF NEURONS BETWEEN
584 THE VARIOUS SECTIONS, DIET, ETC..  AND  IT WOULD BE ILLOGICAL TO REFER TO THEM  AS STUPID, SINCE WE HAVE NO WAY OF 
585 TELLING EXACTLY HOW SMART THEY WERE. FOR SOME REASON, THERE WERE NO I.Q. TESTS  AT THAT TIME, WHICH SHOWS THEY WERE
586 A LOT MORE INTELLIGENT THAN WE GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR.
587      AARON, AARRRGH!!!  OK, FINE, I'LL  PICK THE SUBJECT.  FROM THE LAST 10
588 DISKS OR SO, I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT   VERY FEW PEOPLE KNOW HOW TO EXPRESS WHAT THEY WANT TO SAY WHEN THEY MUST DO IT
589 NON-VERBALLY.  IN FACT, WHILE I HAVE A  LOT OF RESPECT FOR THE OBVIOUS KNOWLEDGE AND INTELLIGENCE OF THE PATRONS OF
590 THE INN, IT BOTHERS ME TO SEE THAT SO   MANY OF THEM SEEM TO LACK KNOWLEDGE OF  THE RULES OF LOGIC AND ARGUMENT.  WHEN
591 I WAS IN SCHOOL (I'M REALLY NOT AS OLD  AS THAT MAKES ME SOUND), THE BASIC RULES OF LOGIC, ARGUMENT, AND CRITICAL
592 THINKING WERE TAUGHT ALONG WITH GRAMMER AND CREATIVE WRITING AT THE HIGH SCHOOL LEVEL.  APPARENTLY THAT ISN'T SO NOW,
593 AS AD HOMINEM, DICTO SIMPLICITER, AND   BEGGING THE QUESTION APPEAR FREQUENTLY  IN MUCH OF THE WRITING HERE.  WHY IS
594 THIS?  IS IT TAUGHT, BUT JUST IGNORED?  OR HAS IT BEEN ABANDONED ENTIRELY?
595 C'MON, AARON, YOU HAVE MANY ANSWERS, SO WHAT'S THE ANSWER TO THIS?
596 
597 [][][][][][][][][][][][]PAM.[][][][][][]
598 Another example of /0, consider that inventory tax is due. Now consider
599 (for the sake of easy calculation) that the tax is 1% of the value of the
600 goods in inventory. Now if we have 100 widgets at a value of $10 each, then
601 the total tax for the items would be $10. 100 X $10 = $1000 / .01 = $10
602 Now if we have 0 thing-a-majigs, which have a value of $1 each, then the 
603 total tax would be $0. 0 X $1 = $0 / .01 = $0. 
604 Please note that I do not necesarily feel that zero MUST be the value returned
605 from the equation, it is only that I am expressing my frustration that 
606 someone decided to make the program blow if a divide by zero occured.
607 Thus I must do a check each time I perform an equation of this sort. This can
608 be very difficult if the equation is extensive (and if you ever delt with taxes
609 they are unbeleivibly complex!). 
610 ******* CISTOP MIKEY ******* 9:30 PM ********** 14 SEPT 83 *****************
618 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~
619 
620 Good grief, in consideration of the number of times I have attempted to
621 call and found the line busy in the last 24 hours (about 100+),
622 I expected that we would be 3/4 the way through the next disk by now.
623 I hate to suggest such a thing, but perhaps we should have a time limit.
624 I think six hours should be adequate to read the entire contents of both
625 disks 27 times, compose 12 medium length poems, criticize 14 other
626 BWMS users, and enter into meticulous
627 deliberation on eight unfamiliar subjects.
628                                                    Dirty Ol' Man
629 DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~DOM~