textfiles/messages/BACKWATER/bw820730.txt

NUMBER OF LINES: 580
1 TO SEE MESSAGES PLEASE TYPE 'HELP' OR 'LIST'
2 ********************** REMOVED: 30 JUL 82 ******************
3 WELCOME TO BWMS (BACKWATER MESSAGE SYSTEM)  MIKE DAY  SYS OP
4 ************************************************************
5 
6 TO LEAVE A MESSAGE, TYPE 'ENTER' AND USE CTRL/C OR BREAK TO GET OUT
7 OF THE ENTER MODE. THE MESSAGE IS AUTOMATICLY STORED.
8 IF AFTER ENTERING THE MESSAGE YOU FIND YOU MADE A MISTAKE,
9 USE THE REPLACE COMMAND TO REPLACE THE LINE.
10 
11 TO EXIT FROM THE SYSTEM TYPE 'OFF' THEN HANG UP
12 THIS WILL PREVENT THE FILE UNSAFE MESSAGE FROM PRINTING OUT WHEN THE
13 NEXT CALLER USES THE SYSTEM NO BIG DEAL IF YOU DON'T TURN THE SYSTEM OFF
14 IT USED TO MEAN THAT SOME DATA WAS LOST, BUT I HAVE SINCE MODIFIED THE
15 SOFTWARE SO THAT THE DATA IS NO LONGER LOST, NOW ALL THE OFF COMMAND DOES
16 IS PREVENT THE UNSAFE FILE MESAGE FROM BEING PRINTED.
17 IT WAS LEFT IN BECAUSE I NEED IT WHEN I AM CLEANING THE FILES UP.
18 ********************************************************************
19 How quickly can you find out what is so unusual about this
20 paragraph? It looks so ordinary that you would think that
21 nothing was wrong with it at all and, in fact, nothing is.
22 But, it is unusual. Why? If you study it and think about it
23 you may find out, but I am not going to assist you in any
24 way. You must do it without coaching. No doubt, if you work
25 at it for long, it will dawn on you. Who knows? Go to work
26 and try your skill. Par is about half an hour.
27 ***************************************************************
28     THE
29         MIDNIGHT
30                  EXPRESS
31        CREDIT CARD
32 DON'T LEAVE YOUR TERMINAL/MODEM
33 WITHOUT IT...
34       ---------------------
35       I  MIDNIGHT EXPRESS I
36       I                   I
37       I      (-----)      I
38       I      I     I      I
39       I      I O O I      I
40       I      I  .  I      I
41       I      I  U  I      I
42       I      (-----)      I
43       I                   I
44       I HERMAN HOLLERITH  I
45       I-------------------I
46 The answer to your riddle is that there are no 'E's' in the paragraph!!
47 
48 What is this Herman Holorith and credit card stuff? Info,man,I need info!
49 ``````````````````````````````````
50 HEY THERE WHERE CAN I MEET HERMAN
51 HOLORITH ?????? AND HOW CAN I GET
52 A MIDNIGHT EXPRESS CARD??? HAH ??
53 EH DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH ??
54 `````````````````````````````````
55 Is this all there is? I will try to add what I can...I guess that is the name of the game here. I am on line with a VIC-20. 
56 HELLO to any and all VIC use Am interested in contacting with idea of gaining badly needed knowledge.
57 Leave a phone number or call.
58 Also-is there anyone out there who understands the gibberish on CP/M?
59 Ron is back after a 3-week respot in God knows where!! Who is Ron, you ask? Find out on your own. It's something someone told m
60 TOO!!!
61 >>FOR SALE<<
62 APF Computer:16K-Expandable. Tape sy,joy sticks on board. 6800cpu-based--Machine language programmable
63 Hi-res,lo-res graphics,sound.Good first machine,or as hardware freak's delight!
64 Call any time. Leave message.
65    What is the phone # for the SOURCE 
66 computer system ?
69 WORST PIECE OF ENGINEERING I HAVE  EVER SEEN. I PAID 279 FOR ONE,
70 AND TOOK IT BACK 2 WEEKS LATER BECUASE IT WOULDN'T DO ANYTHING I
71 WANTED IT TOO. EVEN THE GAMES ARE LOUSY. THE SCREEN HAS A STRANGE
72 TWITCH TO IT. IT MAKES USING THE COMPUTER MORE OF AN ORDEAL THEN
73 FUN. I WOULD NOT RECOMMEND IT TO ANY ONE. STICK WITH APPLES OR
74 ATARIS FOR COLOR, OR SOME OF THE NEWER LOOK ALIKES. I EVEN HEAR
75 THERE IS A COLOR COMPUTER BASED ON THE TRASH-80. ABOUT TIME !
76 ALL VIC OWNERS OR PEOPLE THINKING ABOUT ORDERING ONE, BEWARE. THE
77 PEOPLE AT COMMEDORE HAVE REALLY PUT A LEMON ON THE MARKET.
78 
79 Response to the above: I'm typing this in using a VIC. Where is your "lower"
80 case? My experience has been that alot of the so-called problems with computers
81 reside with the USER!  Personally,I am not ready to let go of $1,500 for an 
82 APPLE,nor $400 for a glorified PACman (Atari), not to mention the huge 
83 additional cost of getting one of those to operate "on-line".
84 
85 
86    Anyone who has a VIC-20 is not really looking 
87 for a computer that you can do things with Because
88 the VIC-20 is a piece of JUNK !!!  Take the Apple II+
89 many different expansion boards ,very wide selection
90 of programs (of all types) and much more .....
91 I think buying a VIC-20 is a WASTE of MONEY !!!!
92 If anyone can prove that the VIC-20 is better than
93 the APPLE,TRS-80,or ATARI they are welcome to try !!!
94              From the Masked Man of Clackamas
95 **********************************************************
96 **********************************************************
97 APPLES HAVE WORMS!! TRASH-80s ARE TRASH!!
98 ATARI IS NOTHING BUT AN ELECTRIFIED TONKA TOY! Get your facts together before
99 you make any judgements about Commadore!
100 ******signed: A lot of research
101 I HAVE USED COMMADORE VIC, PET, AND CBM. THEY ARE
102 ALL QUITE WORTHLESS AS COMPUTERS GO. I MEAN LOOK AT
103 A VIC, IT'S NOTHING BUT A SOUPED UP INTELLEVISION.
104 A CALCULATOR HAS MORE COMPUTING POWER THEN A PET,
105 AND THE BIG CBM'S ARE TOTALLY OUTCLASSED BY
106 APPLES AND TRS-80'S, THE BIGGEST COMPETITORS.
107 IF COMMADORE IS SUCH A GREAT COMPANY, HOW COME
108 IT HAS SUCH A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE MARKET.
109 APPLE AND TANDY COMBINED ARE MORE THAN TRIPLE ALL
110 OTHER MICRO MANUFACTURES COMBINED. THE FACTS DONT
111 LIE. COMMADORE IS SIMPLY NOT UP TO PAR WITH THE
112 REST OF THE MICRO WORLD.
113  
114 SIGNED, A GUY WHO DOESN' GET SO EMOTIONAL ABOUT
115 SUCH SMALL THINGS, UNLIKE SOME OF THE ABOVE
116 PEOPLE.
117 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
118 Let me put my two cents worth in. I have had the oppurtunity
119 to use a PET and as far as I am concerned it is as said 
120 before a worthless piece of junk! The AMC Pacer of the 
121 computer industry. I also tried the Ohio Scientific. I
122 don't know if this company is even in business but their
123 machines stink as well. What makes matters worse is that
124 William (Capt. Kirk) Shatner would stoop so low as to 
125 actually advertise for Commodore. This really burns me
126 up. What do I think is the best ? Well for starters I like
127 TRS-80's, LNW's and unfortunately the new IBM PC is very
128 impressive. A notch below these are Apple and Atari. 
129 Although even these two are much better then anything
130 Commodore or Ohio Scientific puts out. So there.
131      A dedicated TRS-80 or TRaSh-80 as others like
132      to call it, owner. Pronto.
133 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
134 Far be it from me to criticize anyone for their poor taste in computers.
135 It is very easy to get accustomed to the eccentricities of the machine
136 that one normally uses.  Having done that, using other computers is
137 strained and makes one uncomfortable.  After using a microcomputer,
138 the unfriendliness of the dec VAX 11/780 wants to make you scream,
139 but it would be hard indeed to say that the VAX is a piece of excrement!
140     Someone mentioned Ohio Scientific above.  They must have been a
141 really bad company.  So terrible that M/A COM paid several million
142 bucks to buy it out.  It was renamed something else (still with the
143 initials OSI) and it appears that they will leave the hobbyists and
144 toy computer users for the baksheesh of the small biz world.
145     Most of the programs I write are number-crunchers.  While I'm
146 sitting at the keyboard writing them, I always have my handy HP
147 calculator sitting on the table to use for calculating constants and
148 converting units.  It's funny how mush easier the calculator is for
149 doing such things.  I guess it is better than my $3000 computer!!!
150 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
151 
152 WELL MR. OSI EXPERT, ACCORDING TO THE LATEST FIGURES, OSI BRINGS
153 IN ABOUT 25 MILLION IN DP SALES, WHILE TANDY BRINGS IN 460 MILLION,
154 AND APPLE BRINGS IN 410 MILLION. BOY IT SURE LOOKS LIKE OSI IS
155 A BIG THREAT TO THE DP WORLD. YES PEOPLE, LOOK OUT FOR OSI --
156 WHAT A JOKE !
157 COMMADORE, REGARDLESS OF THEIR ADS, WHICH CLAIM THEY ARE THE
158 BIGGEST MICRO PRODUCER, IS 1/3 THE SIZE OF TANDY COMPUTER
159 DIVISION. I GUESS THE PEOPLE AT COMMADORE MUST OF BEEN
160 USING THEIR OWN COMPUTERS WHEN THEY FIGURED THAT 150 WAS
161 BIGGER THAN 460 !
162 
163 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
164 All right OSI was bought out. It looks like OSI is really
165 going to have a lot of supporters out there. Why don't they
166 just go into another business. And Commodore looks to be
167 doing just as well. As you said (above) these jerks seem 
168 to think they are outselling Tandy and Apple. Pure B.S.
169 Thanks to you for the info on these other lesser computer
170 companies. 
171 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
172 Well so much for the childrens hour!  When are you all going to grow-up?  I've 
173 seen better dialogue on Benny Hill.
174 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
175 Well, Well.   What a bunch of ignorant jerks.  The fact that a computer
176 company sells x number of dollars worth of machinary seems to have nng
177 to do with the relative quality of the gear.. I.. Ibm has been chaions
178 to inflict VMS on pure, unsuspecting users!
179 ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
180 WELL WELL , SURE IT IS EASY TO PUT DOWN IBM, SINCE THEY ARE
181 THE BIGGEST. BUT THEY DIDN'T GET TO BE THE 4TH LARGEST COMPANY
182 IN THE COUNTRY 
183 BY SELLING JUNK. IBM HAS PUT OUT SOME OF THE MOST INNOVATIVE HARDWARE
184 THAT HAS EVER BEEN PRODUCED. THERE ARE A MULTITUDE OF COMPANIES
185 THAT SELL IBM COMPATIBLE
186 HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE. DONT TELL ME THEY SELL STUFF FOR
187 A COMPANY THAT MAKES BAD COMPUTERS. OPEN YOUR EYES .
188 SALES ARE THE ONLY TRUE TEST OF A COMPUTERS WORTH. PEOPLE ARE
189 NOT GOING TO BUY STUFF IF IT IS NOT GOOD. ALTHOUGH SOME
190 JERKS SEEM TO THINK, IF IT IS BIG, IT MUST BE BAD, THEY
191 ARE THE ONES IN THE DARK, AND FOR ALL I CARE, THEY CAN STAY
192 THERE, WHO NEEDS STUPIDOS LIKE THAT AROUND !
193 
194 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
195 Here Here to above message. Can it really be true that there
196 is someone out there who understands what the DP world is
197 really about?
198 I am getting sick of the anti-establishment garbage that
199 floats around these bit-bucket systems anyway. It is easy
200 for people to put down the establishment, but let us see
201 who are the first ones to cry when their "hated" establishment
202 is taken away...
203 ]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
204 Let me remind everyone there are other computers besides the
205 Apple, Atari, TRS-80 mod1,3, PET, and OSI.
206 how about the TRS-CC, the Osburn, and a host of other new
207 micros ?
208 *************************************************************************
209 At the risk of getting a lot of flack thrown at me I am offering
210 my postion on the argument as indicated in the above verbage.
211 
212 First let me say that to say that something is good simply because 
213 there is more sold of it then anything else is a misconception of
214 economic principles. By this argument GM's largest division would be
215 Cadilac while the Chevrolet division would be near bankruptcy, and
216 Rolls Royce would outsell every other car made. This of course is not
217 true. The point of fact is that each item produced has its own good and
218 bad points. Some have purposly been allowed to be for economic reasons
219 while others are simply the result of a design problem which again is
220 usually the result of economic pressure to produce something at a reasonable
221 cost. It is quit possible to produce a calculator that has no defects at
222 all, and will last several lifetimes. The problem is that no one will 
223 pay $100,000 for a caclulator when they can buy an adequate one for $50
224 or less and throw it away and buy another one when it breaks. 
225 
226 Second I would like to say that I find the argument about the merits of 
227 a particluar machine as good or bad to be somewhat tedious. The true test
228 as to if a machine is good or bad is if it can perform its intended 
229 function. If it can not then it is bad if it can then it is good. (With
230 of course all the variations of so so equipment in between.) If the machine
231 is attempted to be used outside of its intended fuction, then its ability
232 to do so is a direct result of any overdesign or synergistic capabilities
233 provided. I have owned a Sinclair ZX80. I have used it and programed on it
234 and I have gotten rid of it, not because it was a peice of junk as some
235 would have it, but rather because it was not suited to my needs. It is still a
236 perfectly good machine, and it performs its intended fuction marvalously
237 well, but to say that it is a piece of junk just because I have no need for
238 it, or because it is far too limited for my needs, is an unjust statement.
239 
240 Finally I would like to say that the relative sales of a company is hardly 
241 an indicator of the quality or capabilities of the product they manufacture
242 There are many products that have extremly high sales volume that are
243 considered to be of fair or poor quality. The only reason for their existance
244 is that quality is not an important factor in its use. 
245 A good example of this is the Altair and IMSAI S100 machines. Both of the 
246 original manufactures of these machines went out of business. The Altair
247 was mercifully put to sleep by Pertec, While IMSAI went bankrupt. While I 
248 normally don't like to get in to the argument as to what the first
249 personal computer was since they have been around alot longer then the micro
250 manufactures would lead you to believe, I think it can be safely stated that
251 the Altair was the first microcomputer to be designed and marketed ffor use
252 by the general public. The first personal microcomputer to be sold however
253 predates even the Altair that being the MARK-8 which used the original
254 8008 processor chip. The Altair had many problems which limited its sales
255 potential. The IMSAI was produced which took care of many of the problems,
256 but it also had (and still does have) many problems in its design. The MARK-8
257 had too many problems to cope with and on top of it all was its limited 
258 functionality. (There are still some working to this day however!)
259 One would think that with all the problems these machines would have the
260 decency to go off and die a gracfull death. Yet over 90% of all Altairs
261 and IMSAI's ever sold are still working and of those over 50% are activly
262 working today. While this is a testament to the machines abilities, it
263 is largly a result of synergistic design. At the time concepts and equipment
264 was changing hourly (this is no exageration either, it was!) and as a 
265 result the equipment had to be designed to allow it to be upgraded to
266 something that nobody had any idea as to what it would be. This very
267 capability is what has kept them alive and fuctioning there are quit a few
268 Altairs out there in which the only thing original left in them is the
269 sheet metal cabinet. Yet the identity remains. Note that there has been 
270 nothing said of the Apple or TRS-80. This is because they are really 
271 late comers to the game. (Despite what Apple would lead you to believe)
272 The Polymorphics SOL computer was the first desk top micro. While the now
273 defunct SPHERE computer was the first all-in-one computer. I actually 
274 helped to get the first Apple computer in the Portland area working. It
275 was nothing to write home about either, but then it had no pretentions
276 back then. The Apple didn't really take off until the Apple II came out.
277 Even Osborne can't claim to have the first portable computer. I still 
278 have the advertisment around here someplace for the BABY computer which
279 was built into an attache case. (By the way, even the government has
280 told Apple that they are not the first personal computer. They tried that
281 argument on the FCC, and they told Apple that is was a misstatement of
282 fact {legalise for a lie}). 
283 One final note, just because a company has high sales volume, it does
284 not make it immune to bad judgement in its product. Most companys manage
285 to grow from nothing because they were in the right place at the right
286 time with the right product no mater what management would have you
287 beleive about marketing  statages and such, if you are not lucky enough
288 to be there, you will not be a succes. If Apple had introduced the Apple II
289 at any later date they would never have made it., as it would have been
290 impossible to compete with the TRS-80 in any kind of volume. Additional,
291 to say that Comadore is a nothing company because it only has a sales
292 volume of $25 million seems to me to be a bit odd. I would consider a
293 company capable of that kind of volume to be quit formidable. Indeed, 
294 with that kind of volume all they need is the luck as stated above, and with
295 the VIC they just might have it. To try to compare the VIC to the Apple
296 in my opinion is an unfair comparison. It is in the realm of comparing
297 the Rolls Royce to the VW bug. Remember that you are paying under $300
298 for the VIC and trying to compare it to something that costs 10 times as
299 much! I don't own a VIC myself, but not because I don't like it, I do.
300 I don't own one simply because it does not have the capabilities I need.
301 But if I needed a machine of the capablities of the the VIC, I would not
302 hesitate for a moment, I would buy it.
303 In closing let me say that if you base your judgement on what someone
304 says is a good machine or a bad machine, you are missing the point
305 entirly. You should analize what your expected needs are determine
306 what machines can meet those needs, then if at that point you still
307 have more then one machine to chose from go test drive them and
308 pick the one you personally like, not what someone else says is good
309 or bad, because their view of the machine is going to be different then
310 yours. After all, they are not you, you are yourself, so be yourself!
311 **** Sincerely **** the IN SANE SCIENTIST **** 24 JULY 1982  8:44 PM ****
312 HOW LONG HAS THIS BBS BEEN ON THE LINE?
313 I THOUGHT I MIGHT ADD MY TWO CENTS WORTH BY
314 SAYING THAT I ENJOY READING IT. IT HELPS PASS THE MIDNIGHT 
315 HOURS AWAY WHEN YOU ARE LACKING SOMETHING
316 BETTER TO DO...
317 *****************************************************************
318 BWMS HAS BEEN ON LINE FOR A LITTLE OVER A YEAR NOW BRINGING BIZZARE 
319 AND OTHERWISE ODD COMMUNICATIVE STATMENTS TO THE SOUTHERN METRO AREA.
320 ****** CIST OP MIKEY ***************************************************
321 I like ZX80's. I like Apples with worms. I like trash 80's. I like PET's
322 I like VIC's. I like Altair's. I like IMSAI's. I like Atari's. I like
323 Intelevision's. I like CBM's. I like ICBM'S. I like liver. I like dirt.
324 I like IBM's. I like Honywell's. I like Burrough's. I like RCA's. I like
325 Xerox's. I like Japanese's. I like Amdahl's. I like Intel's. I like Itel's.
326 I like garbage. I like Processor Tech's. I like Polymorfic's. I like QT's.
327 I like Lomas's. I like National Semic-onductor's. I like TI's. I like misc micro's.
328 I like Osburn's. I like Kaycomp's. I like Baby's. I like Sphere's.
329 I like Intertube's. I like getting beat to a pulp. I like Big board's.
330 I like little board's. I like medium board's. I like monster boards.
331 I like Mini's. I like Maxi's. I like Colosolis's. I like strange BWMS's.
332 BUT I HATE PEOPLE WHO SAY WHAT THEY LIKE ALL OF THE TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
333 ******* from the ever strange and obnoxious BIZZARO #1 **********************
334 Good Grief - I almost burnt out my screen scanning the torrid
335 pulp above.  Name calling just isn't my bag.  Say - how about
336 a sale?  O.K.
337     FOR SALE - Shugart 8" drives   NEW with carton  $250.00
338                Laurence Gilbert - GILBERT AUDIO
339                503- xxx-xxxx   < afternoons please>
340  
341 I might mention that my machine preference is the LNW-80 kit
342 which, with a little scrounging might cost about $750.00 to
343 build (or less if you build your own case).  It includes the
344 following as standard equipment:  Z80 processor running at
345 5.3 Mhz (soon to be about 7 Mhz.), 48K user RAM (96K in non-kit
346 TEAM MODEL) 16K graphics pallet, 480 x 192 HI-res B.W., 384 x 192
347 R.G.B. color, 128 x 192 lower-res color; R.G.B. output, composite
348 output, R.F. output, floppy controller for up to six sides of
349 any size floppy in single or double density, Centronics 
350 parallel port, RS-232 port, Real-time clock, U/l case, 80x24
351 screen capable, simultaneous HI-res and low-RES overlap (or
352 color or whatever), full size keyboard with numeric pad, 
353 steel case with low RF radiation, built-in fan, fully com-
354 patible with TRS-80 operating system and software, 12K ROM,
355 and other features I surely forgot.  Nothing is competitive
356 in terms of features for less than four times the kit price
357 or twice the assembled price.  I'm satisfied, for another
358 $200.00 it becomes a 64K C.P.M. machine as an option at cold
359 boot.  LNW is probably the smallest company mentioned in the
360 previous six hundred lines.  If sales were an indication of
361 quality than Campbells soup is king.  Sales, many times, is
362 indicative of proper promotion and consumer ignorance.  
363 perform a critical evaluation based upon criteria which is
364 really important would damage earnings.  In my business,
365 
366 the public has been duped into considering distortion in
367 stereo equipment as a main criteria for component evaluation,
368 resulting in distortion wars.  An LM-380 amp chip can be
369 set-up for near zip distortion and still sound just awful.
370 The public prefers to remain ignorant.  It's easier.  We
371 live in a McComputer world. 
372 <----------------:-------------------:---------------->
373 Thanx, Sysop, for cleaning up the prior
374 ramblings. Most of us, I'm sure appreciate it.
375 
376 off
377 
378 *************
379 Over on Drive B is a message I left a long time ago about the need to
380 inform Ma Bell about Modems being attached to the line.  Well, as an
381 update to that message I found the following message on the door knob
382 at home the other day, it's from PNB:  "Someone has been trying to
383 reach you on xxx-xxxx and reported your telephone out of service.  We
384 tested and found the line OK.  Your answering machine should be
385 registered with us however."    So the next day I called the Bus. Offc
386 and gave them the FCC reg number and Ringer Equiv. and that was that.
387 ************************  Lyle ****************************************
388 P.S.   The only thing I wonder now is who reported my phone out of service?
389 **************************************************************************
390 Not to flog a dead horse, but in all the comments about hitting the
391 establishment, etc, the main point was lost -- sales volumne hasn't got
392 damned thing to do with product quality.  (See Gilbert's message). IBM
393 may put out some innovative hardware, but they have put out some real dogs
394 as well.  Ditto just about everything else.  Commodore in fact makes a 
395 reasonable machine for the market that they wanted to concentrate on --
396 that of CAI.  To date, Apple, despite its pretensions, does not. The
397 decision as to what makes a good or bad machine, as stated several hundd
398 lines above, is HOW WELL DOES IT FIT MY NEEDS?.  Of course, that assumes
399 that you even know enough to ask that question, and not be blinded by mere
400 sales volumn or the latest gee-whizbang that is of marginal usefullness to
401 you!
402 One comment on the Commadore sales listed above; latest figures show that they h
403 have sales in excess of $200,000,000.00!
404 After all who do you think makes the CPU's for about 55% of the hardware out 
405 ther, Apple & aAtari to name just two. Z80 is probably next and least of all is 
406 TI, Motorola's 6800 &68000 have a damn good share also.
407 
408 
409 
410 off
411 ********************************************
412 Is there a command resident in this system that allows
413 one to access the last few lines/new stuff on this disc?
414 It would surely save a lot of connect time for thosose of us that have already 
415 seen all of the above.
416 **********************
417 **********************
418 Try the following sequence:  BO
419                               UP N : N = 10 - 20 
420 
421 This will take you to the bottom of the data area, and then
422 up  10 to 20 lines.  Use the HELP command for details of how
423 to walk around in this system!!!!!
424 *****************************************************************************
425 ok children -- its time for some history.  after reading a couple
426 of hundred lines of torrid verbiage, mostly based on opinion little
427 supported by fact, let's review some history of computing.
428 1. If it had not of been for some historic marketing mistakes and
429 a minor disagreement between Eckert and Mauchly, Sperry Univac,
430  not IBM would be the dominant force in computinfgg.  These errors,
431    combined with IBM,s policy of bundleing software with the hardware,
432    gave them a marketing edge that univac was never able to overcome.
433  This gave them a virtually perpetual edge, since the cost of converting
434 software to a new hardware environment is astronomical.  My god, there
435 are still *1401* programs running under emulators -- and the 1401 
436 disappeared nearly 15 years agogo.
437 2.  Commodore in the US -- Commodore decided to concentrate on the European
438 market - and still outsells all other microsystems over there by a factor
439 of two.
440 3. A side comment -- people WILL buy junk. The apple, in fact, is not all
441 that good a machine.  Nor is the TRS-80.  But then, since my personal
442 system is 68000 based, under unix, anything smaller, to me, seems like a toy.
443    Yet i bought a trs-80 for my kids to bang on -- its just right for the
445 needs an inexpensive machine.  You CAN do some real work on them, but
446 the amount of hacking required to get even minor applications to/from
447 disk, the lo-res display, all bug the hell out of me.
448 {}{}{}{}{}{}}}{}{}{}{}}{}{}{}} The Mad Analyst {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{
449 HOW ABOUT A NEW TOPIC FOR BLASPHEMOUS ARGUMENTS?
450    There is sure a lot of print in the computer rags about graphics
451 systems with this resolution and these colors and that raster and those
452 vectors and on and on.  Will somebody please tell me what the heck those
453 multi-kilodollar devices are used for?   And you know I don't mean the 
454 latest version of some boring role-playing or tasteless shoot-em-up
455 game, which are obviously just time wasters and CPU burn-in routines.
456    I've seen systems with nice bed plotters used for circuit board
457 layouts and for mapping roads and utility systems, but the capabilities
458 of these systems seems rather pedestrian compared to the state-of-the-
459 art display systems that are advertised on every other page of the slick
460 pubs.
461 {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{} Analog Alan {}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}{}
462    One of the things that bugs the tar out of me are all of these people
463 with multiuser systems.  In a hobby hacker environment, how many keyboards
464 can you type on at once?  I'll admit that the features of UNIX look quite
465 attractive, but why aren't there (or are there) systems for single users?
466 In other words, why should I get a super fast 16 bit CPU to take care of
467 ten users when there is just me?
468 RYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRY samuel f.b.m. RYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRYRY
469 'Cause getting the whole ball of wax to work right is half the fun of
470 computing!!
471 ::::::::::::::::::::: Me. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
472 One of the more amusing things that i use mine for are the generation
473 of pretty pictures -- having just read up on fractals, i'se gonna try
474 'em!   As for single user Unix -- yes such a beast exists.  Admittedly,
475 its a few years old ...But then Unix was origanally designed for single
476 users.   Just cause it MAY have multiuser capability, the real neat thing
477 its good for is multitasking, without some of the hacks of M?PM.  It just
478 has its own amusing vagarie.
479 
480 
481 YES! I AGREE, I REALLY WANT/NEED MULTITASKING TYPE THINGIES. I REALLY DON'T
482 NEED MULTIUSER. ALTOUGH SOME MIGHT THINK I WOULD FOR THIS SYSTEM, ACTUALLY I
483 DON'T AS THERE IS ONLY ONE PHONE LINE, IT SEEMS POINTLESS. ADMITTEDLY I COULD
484 USE IT WHEN I AM UPDATING THE SYSTEM LOCALLY, BUT THEN WHO WANTS TO WRITE
485 A WHOLE NEW OPERATING SYSTEM FOR A MEDIUM USE BBS THAT IS RUNNING WELL WITHIN
486 CAPACITY (MOST OF THE TIME, EXCEPT MAYBE WHEN ARGUMENTS START TO ROLL. WHICH
487 BY THE WAY I LOVE! IT GIVES SOMETHING INTERESTING TO READ! THIS SYSTEM GIVES
488 PEOPLE ENOUGH SPACE TO SAY THIER PIECE WITH OUT FRAGMENTING IT WHICH MESSES
489 UP ITS STRUCTURE.) BESIDES, WHEN I AM UPDATTING IT I JUST BECOME ANOUTHER USER
490 AS FAR AS IT IS CONCERNED. SINCE IT IS NOT MY MAIN COMPUTER ANYWAY THERE IS NO
491 REAL POINT I HAVE MY OWN HOMEBREW SYSTEM THAT DOES JUST WHAT I WANT SO I DON'T
492 HAVE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW GREAT OR ROTTEN SOME MANUFACTURES PIECE OF SILLYCONE
493 IS. BUT MULTITASKING I COULD USE. ACTUALLY I DO HAVE MPM WHICH I KEEP SAYING
494 I AM GOING TO PUT ON MY HOMEBREW, BUT THEN I ALSO HAVE 2.2 WHICH IS EVEN
495 CONFIGURED FOR IT, SO WHY AM I STILL USING 1.4CPM?? I DON'T KNOW! I WAS HOPING
496 YOU WOULD TELL ME! I GUESS I AM JUST A HOPLESS CASE.. ** CIST OP MIKEY *******
497 HOPELESS CASE INDEED. ANYONE WHO STILL USES 1.4 OVER 2.2 HAS GOT TO HAVE
498 HIS/HER HEAD EXAMINED. 1.4 COMPARED TO 2.2 IS LIKE PINTO TO PORCHE.
499 
500 *********************************************************************
501 Still using 1.4???????? Good God -- that went away with the 8008!
502 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 
503 ACTUALLY IT WAS 1.3 ON THE 8008 (WHICH I ALSO HAVE A COPY OF) ** MIKEY **
504      
505    TO: SYS OP             30 JULY 82      2125
506 
507           HD BOOT 24 JULY 82   FAILURE
508           BUT IMPROVED.  SEEMS TO INVOLVE
509           ONLY CHARACTERS 1 AND 2, NOW.
510            NOT POSITIVE, OF COURSE.
511 
512                      RAT HOLE TERMINAL
513 
514 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
515 PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
516 ANY ONE OUT THERE ? HEY, HI 
517 THIS IS S. WHAT ARE YOU ALL
518 DOING ? DOES THIS DRAGON LADY EVER GET ON HER
519 ANY MORE ? I AGREE WITH OUR CISTOP ABOUT 
520 1.4 TO 2.2. WHY YOU ARE COMPARING A HONDA 1.4 LITER
521 ENGINE TO A MOPAR 2.2 HEMI. THE HEMI KICK BUT OVER
522 HONDA. MY 2.2 CHARGER IS VERY FAST!! IT CAN EVEN
523 RUN ALONG WITH THE NEW CAMARO, WHICH IS NEATR ALSO
524 GOOT BYYE            F.     PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
525 PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
526 
527 What an incoherrent chap we have above. Everyone knows that the 2.2 hemi
528 is in new Toyota's. Chrysler hasn't figured out the hemi-engine or how
529 it works.................................................................
530 
531 ** WH
AT'S A HEMI?? CIST OP MIKEY ******************************
533 ******************************
534 I'M A POOR DEMENTED CRIMINAL.  I ESCAPED LAST WEEK, AND THEY
535 WILL NEVER FIND ME.  I NEED MONEY.  I'M HUNGRY AND NEED NEW
536 CLOTHES AND A CAR TO GET OUT OF OREGON WITH.  IF YOU HAVE A FEW
537 EXTRA DOLLARS JUST LAYING AROUND THE HOUSE, LEAVE THEM LAYING
538 AROUND THE HOUSE.  LEAVE YOUR HOUSE NUMBER AND STREET
539 ADDRESS HERE, AND I WILL COME AND PICK THEM UP SOMETIME IN
540 THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT.
541 
542 DON'T FORGET, ONLY YOU CAN SAVE A CONVICTED FELON'S LIFE WITH
543 YOUR HARD EARNED DOLLARS.
544 
545                SIGNED,
546                THE ROCKY BUTTE RADICAL
547 ***************************************
548 WHAT THE HELL IS UNIX?  I LIKE MY TRSDOS BETTER WHATEVER IT IS.
549 WHO NEEDS 16 BIT PROCESSORS WHEN 4 BIT ONES WILL DO?  CP/M IS
550 A SCREWED UP LANGUAGE.  BASIC WORKS BETTER.  BULLITEN BOARDS
551 ARE FUN TO CRASH.  I LIKE TO CRASH THIS ONE...IT'S EASY...
552 
553 MP/M IS FOR THE BIRDS.  MACHINE LANGUAGE IS MORE FUN.  COMPUTERS
554 SHOULD ONLY BE USED BY MORONS.  SMART PEOPLE NEED TO APPLY FOR
555 WELFARE.
556 
557 SIGNED,
558 THE BIZZARO USER
559 How about a word or two about computer sales people.  I really get miffed when 
560 most of them don't know the first thing about the products they are pushing on 
561 there clients.  One can ask questions till one is blue in the face and never get
562 an inteligent answer.
563  Most of them should go back to selling aluminnum sidind or stocking grocery 
564 shelves.  If there is a knowledgable sales person out there that can discuss 
565 more than the machine/machines that he/she sells, I would sure like to meet 
566 him/her!  All the manufacturers make claims about how you can interface with 
567 other equipment but there's no one out there to offer any valid instructions.
568 This I think is the biggest problem with the industry, not the equipment.
569 ********************************************
570 
571 HEY COMPLAINER, WHY DON'T YOU LEARN TO SPELL BEFORE YOU START GRIPING
572 ABOUT SALES PEOPLE. MAYBE IF CUSTOMERS LEARNED HOW TO ASK INTELLIGABLE
573 QUESTIONS, WE SALES PEOPLE COULD HELP YOU BETTER. TRY ROLE REVERSAL,
574 IT IS VERY ILLUMINATING.
575                            TIGARD BYTE SHOP
576 
577 *********
578 Since when was CP/M or MP/M ever a Language?!?
579 ************ Signed, Lyle ***********
580