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F I D O N E W S -- Vol.10 No.44 (31-Oct-1993)
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| A newsletter of the | |
| FidoNet BBS community | Published by: |
| _ | |
| / \ | "FidoNews" BBS |
| /|oo \ | +1-519-570-4176 1:1/23 |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | Editors: |
| | | \ \\ | Sylvia Maxwell 1:221/194 |
| | (*) | \ )) | Donald Tees 1:221/192 |
| |__U__| / \// | Tim Pozar 1:125/555 |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
| Submission address: editors 1:1/23 |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Internet addresses: |
| |
| Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
| Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
| Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com |
| Both Don & Sylvia (submission address) |
| editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
| For information, copyrights, article submissions, |
| obtaining copies and other boring but important details, |
| please refer to the end of this file. |
+----------------------------------------------------------------------+
========================================================================
Table of Contents
========================================================================
1. Editorial..................................................... 1
2. Articles...................................................... 2
Intolerance and FIDOnet..................................... 2
For the Record.............................................. 3
Servants or tyrants?........................................ 5
The Spirit of Fidonet is crying............................. 7
Portrait of an RC........................................... 7
AURORA...................................................... 10
3. Fidonews Information.......................................... 11
========================================================================
Editorial
========================================================================
FidoNews 10-44 Page: 2 31 Oct 1993
Another week, another snooze. We have been moving all week,
and I cannot say that I like it much. A month's overlap in the
two residences takes some of the pressure off, but drags it out
as well. Some of our books are still not unpacked from our last
move.
There are a couple of articles from England that week that
point out the continuing problems of Fido administration. That
fine balamce between people who are willing to run things and
people who want to run things is particularly elusive.
We're in a hurry, we have to get this out the wire, so...
========================================================================
Articles
========================================================================
Intolerance and FIDOnet
Gregory Woodbury
wolfe@wolves.durham.nc.us
I've been reading FIDONews for a long time (about 6 years now)
and I am constantly suprized at how much tolerance and
intolerance are shown in the articles that are printed. Tom
Jennings held his temper a lot, and some things that he passed
were, I am sure, personally painful for him to publish. I am
extremely glad that you are continuing his "publish nearly
everything" policy.
Steve Winter's latest broadside against "sodomites" and the
original "Home Schooling Echo" is merely the latest in a whole
series of actions that the whole net has been subjected to by
Mr. Winter.
Steve Winter and the "PRIME Network" and his "Pre-Rapture BBS"
here in Durham NC are quite (in)famous, and he has been
suspended from FIDOnet on more than one occasion for both
technical violations and XAB. In addition, Mr. Winter abuses
the local FIDO/Usenet gateway by sending commercial messages
through it on a regular basis, when the Usenet side operator has
constantly asked for limits on commercial use.
It is fortunate for Mr. Winter that others are more tolerant
than he is willing to be. If we were to emulate his behaviour,
he would be out in the cold, and not a part of any network.
FidoNews 10-44 Page: 3 31 Oct 1993
For the Record
David Cupp 1:2215/150.2
First of all and for the record, I would like to make it known
that I never said I was out to get Flame Removed from the
FidoNet Backbone! That was Not And Is Not My Intention!
The following was written before several messages were sent
between my SysOp and the Flame Moderator. However, it now
appears, my original concerns have been shunted. I feel this is
an issue that must be dealt with.
================================================================
* * It's ok to have Minors On Flame.. * *
That's right! At least that seems to be the case! But, don't
you dare challenge this issue on Flame. That is, unless you want
your feed cut. Is it normal for a Moderator to ignore policy4,
so he/she can keep this issue mute? I am a father of two
children and have a protective place in my heart for them. When
I began reading the contents of Flame, I at first thought it was
a bunch of kids using the echo as an adult equivalent! That's
what it sounded like to me!
I posted the following message on Flame..
> What gives here!
>
> I can't believe this echo is part of FidoNet..
>
> It appears that this echo is nothing more than an excuse for
> foul mouthed teens and children, who want to use FidoNet as
> an Adult Equivalent Echo for Minors..
> I for one can't understand how this has happened and why it
> has been permitted to continue..
> I thought that Flame was for legitimate, heated discussion,
> between two or more persons, which was not permitted on regular
> echos.. The place to go when you have a bitch, gripe or other
> type of complaint..
> I could be wrong with this line of thinking, however, I know
> that it should NOT be used as it's being used now!
I admit this message may have been a bit harsh but in my eyes
it was true.. Boy, I still can't believe the replies I got back!
And I won't repeat them here!
Of course, when the Flame Moderator read this he was furious!
Needless to say, my feed was cut! Sorry, but this doesn't sound
like policy4 to me! Well, I guess if a Moderator doesn't like
what he sees on his echo, he can warn you and cut your feed all
in one blow! Yep, that's right, that's exactly what happened!
FidoNews 10-44 Page: 4 31 Oct 1993
At first, I didn't want to be removed like that because it
gave him total power without question. After re-thinking this
situation, I've concluded, since I didn't really want to be a
part of Flame anyway, there was no real reason to pursue this..
It's been a few weeks now and thanks to the tremendous efforts
of my SysOp and NC my access to Flame has been restored.. Not
that anything good could ever come out of me posting there
(which I won't)! However, there is an issue that needs to be
dealt with by FidoNet Officials..
In a couple of the replies I received, it was stated (and I
have most of them on paper), there are indeed minors on Flame!
If *I* wanted access to an Adult board, I would have to show
proof of age! With the language used on Flame, I believe this
echo should be available only to consenting adults with proof of
age. I know that if I came home from work, turned on the
computer and discovered that my child had been accessing this
kind of echo without my consent, someone could soon be in court.
I was glad to hear that this echo is only available to adults
at my end, but what about all the others? FidoNet is Massive!
I would like to see measures taken to insure that only Adults
and those with Parental or Guardian Consent are found on this
"R" rated Flame echo!
I know there is someone, somewhere reading this that thinks
I'm just out to cause trouble. If you asked someone who knows
me, you'll find that just isn't my way.. David Cupp
================================================================
After careful consideration, I do admit, the statements I made were
harsh and if I could I would take most of it back. As a father of two
girls, I was and still am concerned about minors being allowed on Flame.
Obviously the Flame Moderator mistook this as a threat. I can see his
position now as to why he pulled my feed to flame, but will never
understand his reason for warning me not to post along the lines which
I was posting, then pulling my feed before I had a chance to reply to
his message.
It has been stated to me by the Flame Moderator (John Clifton)
that my concern is misplaced.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
JC> I teach school and I can assure you that what a student
JC> hears in the hallways EVERY DAY makes this echo look like
JC> Disneyland.
JC> As for you being concerned, I think your concern is misplaced.
JC> Oprah, Sally, Geraldo and Donahue are more readily accessible
JC> to children and that should be far more worrisome to you.
JC> John Clifton 1:153/6.4
JC> FLAME Moderator
FidoNews 10-44 Page: 5 31 Oct 1993
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry John, I just don't see it that way. The children I teach
are my own and they will learn and respect the English Language
rather than Slang! (Street)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Area: Flame!
Msg#: 1345
From: John Clifton
To: Mikey
Subj: BULLSHIT!!!!
> FLAME is a tradition and is the only echo specifically
> mentioned in a Policy document. It is unrefutable and has a
> traceable lineage that precedes all but a few of the current
> power structure(s).
JC> This is why I worked to keep FLAME alive when all hell broke
JC> loose last Spring. It *is* a tradition and shouldn't be snuffed.
JC> BTW, the Censors have never sent me any guidelines for modeating
JC> the echo. I'd like to see 'em try to get rid of FLAME under the
JC> circumstances.
JC> ! Origin: Basic'ly John's Point, Langley, B.C. (1:153/6.4)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
If Flame is in Policy4, I can't find it! And believe me, I
tried! I did a word search of Policy4 on Flame, Sex, Minor,
Adult and Child! Not one of these words exists in this document.
As the content of Flame is harsh (or, "a tradition", as
stated above by Flame Regulars), I believe it should be given an
Adult "R" Rating! This would limit Flame access to Adults! Any
minors wishing access to Flame would have to have a consent form
filled out by a parent or legal guardian which conveys The
Content of Flame as Adult..
Sincerely Yours:
David Cupp
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Servants or tyrants?
Policy and *Cs, servants or tyrants?
by John Burden
2:255/112
It may not have escaped the attention of the rest of Fidonet
that zone 2 has been experiencing some "local difficulties" as a
result of decisions reached by the Z2C and handed down to his
FidoNews 10-44 Page: 6 31 Oct 1993
RCs to carry out. As a result, there has been turmoil in
Germany and also now in the UK. The excuse is that "policy
requires it".
Such an attitude turns policy into a convenient tyrant to hide
behind when in fact it should be the servant, the enabler, of
the network. More than anything else, the inflexible,
intolerant and undemocratic implementation of policy, WHEN IT
SUITS THE *Cs CONCERNED, makes them into tyrants as well. It is
the defence used by those who sent millions of men, women and
children to their deaths in the concentration camps and gas
chambers, that they were only obeying orders. Humbug!
In the UK, it has been decreed that there will be a grand
shake-up, relocating nodes from one net to another. There is no
rationale for this other than "policy requires it". Not even
the advocates of the so- called geo-net shake-up have been able
to produce any evidence to show that the existing way of
operating failed to work and work well. It has always been my
understanding that POLICY exists to ease communication between
systems. Instead, it is used in Europe as an instrument of
oppression.
We are told by the UK RC that a formal request for exemption
from any geo-net requirements has lain on the desk of the (now
resigned) IC for more than 4 months. In the meantime, instead
of waiting for this request to be dealt with, the enforced
transfer of sysops continues unabated. Anyone who resists an
imminent move is given a simple choice - move or lose your
nodelisting!
What has Fidonet become when the co-ordinators will not listen
to the wishes of the majority and instead act like dictators?
More to the point, what will it become next? There have been
several requests from region25 sysops for a free vote to be
taken on this issue, with both sides bound to accept the
democratic decision, but these have been ignored by the RC.
Instead, the region is splintering into different camps camps
with the creation of two "Classic" region25 nodelists, one
established by existing *Cs, the other by "grunt" sysops (more
power to their elbows).
The regional co-ordinator (supposedly the top man in Fidonet in
the UK) abuses his position and the region daily. Among his
latest diatribes in the PUBLIC Region25 echo conference is the
following. This was sent to the person democraticly elected as
NC for net 258 after both the RC and the ZC declined to accept
the result of the vote.
.................................................
"AAAhhhh!.. yes say the sweetest things ..... I have allready
told you in repsonce to where you said i was an "asshole" ( your
words, for someone that claims he is a born again christain, did
the halo slip for a second ? ) that I am the biggest shit
FidoNews 10-44 Page: 7 31 Oct 1993
shoveller in the world, proberlly the biggest wanker and also a
fucking BIG asshole... You have the netmail I sent you, prehaps
you would care to make it public.....
.................................................
Then our RC wonders why respect for him and for his position
within Fidonet is falling away!
The question is, apart from joining one of the "Classic"
breakaways or resigning, what other options exist for the vast
majority of sysops in the UK who are totally sick and tired of
what is going on and simply wish to be allowed to continue their
hobby without needless and petty tyranny? How much more has to
be gone through before those in leading positions within Fidonet
internationally decide that enough is enough and call a halt to
the abuse of this region?
John Burden
2:255/112
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Spirit of Fidonet is crying.
Tony Dunlap, 1:2220/30
Part 1, Public Key Cryptography
Public Key Cryptography? Why? Anything so sensitive or
important as to require this type of security has no buisness in
echomail, even clear signed messages. Why not? It serves no
purpose for 99.99% of the readers of an echo. And just how much
would this cost us, who pay long distance charges to transfer
the echoes around the world? Using the example provided by Mr.
Riddle, (Fnews 1042) I came up with 315 bytes extra per message.
Using my rather modest average of 300 messages per day that
comes to 94,500 bytes extra per day (That would be an increase
in my packet sizes of over 25%. How many Sysops would like
that?). And that's not including extra messages produced by
people posting their public keys.
We live with an occasional grunged message. We live with
spurious dupes. Why can't we live with less than 100% guarantee
of authenticity? Eventually the software will evolve to handle
all three problems to a very high degree. I, personally, can
wait...
Stay tuned for "The Spirit of Fidonet is Crying", Part 2, The
(fill in the blank)-Mongers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Portrait of an RC
Nick Reid (1:253/159)
FidoNews 10-44 Page: 8 31 Oct 1993
Howdy Folks!
It's that time of year again, when we take our expensive microphones
and video gear to roam the quieter backwaters of the known universe
in search of quaint fillers to show you while Bryant hits the john.
Today we find ourselves in England. Not much happens in England that
an amazing character here does not try to control.
Peter Burnett, Regional Co-ordinator of FidoNet in the UK, is a simple,
earthy man, with a twinkle in his eye and a direct and friendly manner.
Fully committed to exerting and extending the authority of the *Cs at
the instigation of, and in full collusion with, his manipulative buddy
the Zone 3 Co-ordinator (so sue me Ronbo) he is cleaning up FidoNet
throughout this land by assiduously seeing-off all who are making a
real mess through gross negligence of their FidoDuty to lick his butt.
Here, in a series of sound bites from only one day's Regional echo is
a portrait of this remarkable and dedicated promoter of FidoNet ideals.
To: Mark Matts Message #: 6991
From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 26 Oct 93 07:09:00
Subject: *** ZMH CHANGE *** Status: Public
Received: No Group: REGION25 (25)
MSGID: 2:441/80 2cccdbbf
<...>
B - O - L - L - O - C - K - S T - O Y - O - U
--- GoldED 2.41+0024UK1/D'Bridge v1.54/002129
* Origin: Popper's & TNX, Hastings, UK | HST/V32 | <...> (2:441/80)
To: Kevin Grumball Message #: 7000
From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 26 Oct 93 13:37:00
Subject: Classic Status: Public
Received: No Group: REGION25 (25)
MSGID: 2:441/80.1 2ccd29a1
KG> Oh, and by the way, some "despot down
KG> south" (Peter Burnett) *will* tell you what net to join :-(
AAAhhhh!.. yes say the sweetest things ..... I have allready
told you in repsonce to where you said i was an "asshole" ( your
words, for someone that claims he is a born again christain, did
the halo slip for a second ? ) that I am the biggest shit
shoveller in the world, proberlly the biggest wanker and also a
fucking BIG asshole... You have the netmail I sent you, prehaps
you would care to make it public.....
Now exactly when are you going to tell me something new ?
FidoNews 10-44 Page: 9 31 Oct 1993
--- XRS/386 5.1+ via XCS 1.10
* Origin: Point Operations at The Neverland eXpress (2:441/80.1)
To: Kevin Grumball Message #: 7001
From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 26 Oct 93 13:44:00
Subject: Brewery trip Status: Public
Received: No Group: REGION25 (25)
MSGID: 2:441/80.1 2ccd29c3
<...>
Fuck off
--- XRS/386 5.1+ via XCS 1.10
* Origin: Point Operations at The Neverland eXpress (2:441/80.1)
To: Paul Dickie Message #: 7125
From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 27 Oct 93 10:21:00
Subject: Whats it all about? Status: Public
Received: No Group: REGION25 (25)
MSGID: 2:441/80.1 2cce4bc9
PD> Frank, you don't *need* to *prove* that you're arrogant.
And you do not need to prove that YOU are an asshole !
Peter.
--- XRS/386 5.1+ via XCS 1.10
* Origin: Point Operations at The Neverland eXpress (2:441/80.1)
To: Ben Davis Message #: 7126
From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 27 Oct 93 10:23:00
Subject: Whats it all about? Status: Public
Received: No Group: REGION25 (25)
MSGID: 2:441/80.1 2cce4c74
<...>
And you call Frank THICKHEADED... jezz man.. take a look in the
fucking mirror and see what a wanker you are !...
Peter.
--- XRS/386 5.1+ via XCS 1.10
* Origin: Point Operations at The Neverland eXpress (2:441/80.1)
To: Kevin Grumball Message #: 7128
From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 27 Oct 93 10:28:00
Subject: *** CLASS25.A?? *** Status: Public
Received: No Group: REGION25 (25)
FidoNews 10-44 Page: 10 31 Oct 1993
MSGID: 2:441/80.1 2cce4d7f
>>> EH> Likewise, please ensure that 2:258/0, 2:258/2000, 2:258/23
>>> EH> and 2:258/24 are excluded from future editions.
>>> Errm... *I'm* 258/0 now.
> EH> Errr Kevin, you may believe that you are 258/0, that's fair
> EH> enough. In practice though, I am still 258/0, as both the
> EH> RC and the ZC now told you.
KG> You are *NOT* 258/0 in the Classic nodelist.
SO why dont you fuck off there with 2:258/1 and pull your entries
from the fidonet.org published list.
--- XRS/386 5.1+ via XCS 1.10
* Origin: Point Operations at The Neverland eXpress (2:441/80.1)
To: Kevin Grumball Message #: 7130
From: Peter Burnett Submitted: 27 Oct 93 07:25:00
Subject: *** CLASS25.A?? *** Status: Public
Received: No Group: REGION25 (25)
MSGID: 2:441/80 2cce22b0
Hello Kevin!
<...>
KG> You are talking complete crap.
You should know.. you are indeed full of shit!........
Peter
--- GoldED 2.41+0024UK1/D'Bridge v1.54/002129
* Origin: Neverland eXpress | RC25 | Hst/V32 | <...>(2:441/80)
Truly a fine example of rustic charm and a great approach to FidoNet.
But our time here is up so, for now, this is your crew, somewhere in
England, saying goodbye till next time we explore together the curious
highways and byways of human nature in its natural habitat.
And so it goes.....
----------------------------------------------------------------------
AURORA
Jerry Cain, 1:300/8
jcain@pimacc.pima.edu
An echo to support the finest text/programmer's editor available
The Aurora text editor is, simply put, the BEST! If you haven't tried
FidoNews 10-44 Page: 11 31 Oct 1993
this editor, you're in for a real treat.
File-request AUROR110.ZIP from 1:300/8 and step into the future of
editing.
We invite you to participate in the support echo which was created to
support Aurora. The tag is AURORA and for now you'll have to poll
1:300/8 a couple times a week until we get enough participating systems
to get it on the backbone. The author has promised to tune into the
conference.
Need more info? Here's a clip from its FILE_ID.FIZ:
The Aurora Editor v1.1 is a beautiful new high performance text
editor with a superb windowing environment, full mouse support, a
huge 1 Gigabyte paged virtual memory using XMS/EMS/disk, object
oriented macro language, multi instance programmable file manager,
unlimited undo/redo, a 386 version, user definable menus, keyboard,
and toolbar, text folding, binary edit, 16K max line length, shrinks
to 1.2k, file scan, bookmarks, more!
-Jerry Cain
----------------------------------------------------------------------
========================================================================
Fidonews Information
========================================================================
------- FIDONEWS MASTHEAD AND CONTACT INFORMATION ----------------
Editors: Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, Tim Pozar
Editors Emeritii: Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince Perriello,
Tom Jennings
IMPORTANT NOTE: The FidoNet address of the FidoNews BBS has been
changed!!! Please make a note of this.
"FidoNews" BBS
FidoNet 1:1/23
BBS +1-519-570-4176, 300/1200/2400/14400/V.32bis/HST(DS)
Internet addresses:
Don & Sylvia (submission address)
editor@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
Sylvia -- max@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
Donald -- donald@exlibris.tdkcs.waterloo.on.ca
Tim -- pozar@kumr.lns.com
(Postal Service mailing address) (have extreme patience)
FidoNews
172 Duke St. E.
Kitchener, Ontario
Canada
FidoNews 10-44 Page: 12 31 Oct 1993
N2H 1A7
Published weekly by and for the members of the FidoNet international
amateur electronic mail system. It is a compilation of individual
articles contributed by their authors or their authorized agents. The
contribution of articles to this compilation does not diminish the
rights of the authors. Opinions expressed in these articles are those
of the authors and not necessarily those of FidoNews.
Authors retain copyright on individual works; otherwise FidoNews is
copyright 1993 Sylvia Maxwell. All rights reserved. Duplication and/or
distribution permitted for noncommercial purposes only. For use in
other circumstances, please contact the original authors, or FidoNews
(we're easy).
OBTAINING COPIES: The-most-recent-issue-ONLY of FidoNews in electronic
form may be obtained from the FidoNews BBS via manual download or
Wazoo FileRequest, or from various sites in the FidoNet and Internet.
PRINTED COPIES may be obtained from Fido Software for $10.00US each
PostPaid First Class within North America, or $13.00US elsewhere,
mailed Air Mail. (US funds drawn upon a US bank only.)
INTERNET USERS: FidoNews is available via FTP from ftp.fidonet.org, in
directory ~ftp/pub/fidonet/fidonews. If you have questions regarding
FidoNet, please direct them to deitch@gisatl.fidonet.org, not the
FidoNews BBS. (Be kind and patient; David Deitch is generously
volunteering to handle FidoNet/Internet questions.)
SUBMISSIONS: You are encouraged to submit articles for publication in
FidoNews. Article submission requirements are contained in the file
ARTSPEC.DOC, available from the FidoNews BBS, or Wazoo filerequestable
from 1:1/23 as file "ARTSPEC.DOC". Please read it.
"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, and are used with permission.
Asked what he thought of Western civilization,
M.K. Gandhi said, "I think it would be an excellent idea".
-- END
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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