286 lines
14 KiB
Plaintext
286 lines
14 KiB
Plaintext
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America Online
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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Tuesday, June 12, 1990 10:00 p.m. eastern time
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Topic: Resource Programming
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Forum Leader: Dave Sugar (AFL Dyfet)
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AFL Dyfet I see our banner flying...Good evening and welcome to the Apple II
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Development
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AFL Dyfet Forum. Tonight our topic is Resources. We will be discussing how
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to take
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AFL Dyfet advantage of resources in GS/OS and various products that help in
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using
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AFL Dyfet resources. We will be using protocol tonight starting NOW. This
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means that
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AFL Dyfet if you wish to ask a question, you must enter a '?' on a line by
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itself, and if
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AFL Dyfet you wish to comment on what's being discussed, you must enter a
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'!' on a line
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AFL Dyfet by itself. You will each be called in turn. Okay, the floor is
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now open for
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AFL Dyfet questions...
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AFL Dyfet Okay Lalanovich, you have the first question and the floor
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now...
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Lalanovich Ok, what the heck are resources really good for?
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Lalanovich I, mean what do they do that is so important?
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AFL Dyfet Coach, you look ready for this one...GA :)
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Coach101 Well, actually I waited for Dave Lyons, but....
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Coach101 Much of the interface that is presented to a user,
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Coach101 the desktop, messages, etc., involves a lot of code
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Coach101 that is not really instructions (like a=b) but is
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Coach101 really a series of "data" statements that describe
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Coach101 the location and size of window, the appearance of
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Coach101 a control, menu, or whatever. Resources are a
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Coach101 means of taking this "data" out of the program and
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Coach101 storing it in a "resource fork". Once this is
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Coach101 done, a programmer can play with (really tune) the
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Coach101 interface using a suite of tools that are a lot
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Coach101 more productive than changing "data" statements
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Coach101 in assembler, pascal, C, etc.
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Coach101 There are probably a lot more opinions on what
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Coach101 resources are really good for, but thats my basic
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Coach101 usage of them. Done. GA
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AFL Dyfet I was going to add to what Coach had to say, but he has done such
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a wonderful
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AFL Dyfet sumnation there, it seems now unnessisary :)
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Coach101 I left you the opening, and you wont take it :)
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AFL Dyfet The other important point about having a resource fork is that it
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is integral
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AFL Dyfet to the file. When you copy the file, you copy all the resource
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data with it.
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AFL Dyfet You do not need to keep a bunch of messy little data files about
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for static
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AFL Dyfet data, screen images, etc.
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I see that Doctor Why has the next question...GA Doctor
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Why...
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Doctor Why I asked this last week but didn't get an answer as to why it was
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necessary...
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Doctor Why I had defined a cursor as a resource and when I used it in an
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ORCA/Pascal
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Doctor Why program it displayed OK until I moved it around. It would
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periodiccally be
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Doctor Why junked. I found the solution. I had defined the cursor record as a
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local
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Doctor Why variable. When I made it a global, it worked. Why is it necessary
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to make
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Doctor Why it a global?
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons Local variables in C and Pascal are stored on the stack only
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Dave Lyons as long as you're still in the procedure or function where they're
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declared. Many toolbox
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Dave Lyons routines (like, just to choose an example
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Dave Lyons completely at random, SetCursor) require that the
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Dave Lyons data you feed them a pointer to stick around. When your function
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exited, the
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Dave Lyons space on the stack was re-used in short order, and the
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cursor-update routine tried
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Dave Lyons to use the original cursor record again (it has that right). Does
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that answer the question?
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Doctor Why Yes. Thanks
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Dave Lyons ga
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AFL Dyfet In C, if you had specified that it was a static (local) variable,
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you would
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AFL Dyfet have not had a problem. Unfortunately, in Pascal, there is no
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standard way
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AFL Dyfet to control storage like that. Some Pascal implimentations do have
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extensions
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AFL Dyfet to allow something like 'static' (fixed, non stack allocated)
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local variables,
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AFL Dyfet but I do not recall off-hand if Orca/Pascal has any such unusual
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support.
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Dave Lyons (Yes, I should have said "locals in Pascal" and "auto variables in
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C". Thanks.)
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Doctor Why So to be on the safe side, all record structures should be
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global.
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I see that Nuzz has the next question. GA Nuzz
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Nuzz I have an NDA that uses Resources.Not its own Resources, but Res's
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from other
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Nuzz Apps, selected via Standard File. It works fine, but I anm not
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"logging" in
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Nuzz to the Resource Mngr with a startup, Set/get curresourceapp,
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etc.
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Nuzz Is this needed in this circumstance.
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons Yes. If you're not starting up the RM yourself, any resource
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files you open or close
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Dave Lyons are affecting the resource-search-path of whoever
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Dave Lyons the current RM user it (from GetCurResourceApp). Not a good
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thing. You should start it up
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Dave Lyons with your own ID when your window is opened, & shut it down when
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you're closed. When the system
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Dave Lyons calls your Action routine or any Run-QUeue routines that belong to
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you, it will already have set
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Dave Lyons you as the current resource app, so life it nice. ga
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Nuzz Ok. I understand that .GA
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AFL Dyfet Thank you Dave...Okay, I see Windrider has the next question. GA
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Wind...
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Windrider5 How do you link the resource and data forks of a program?
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AFL Dyfet GA Coach...
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Coach101 There are a couple of ways to do it.
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Coach101 The simplist is to just specify the keep file from
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Coach101 the linker as the keep file for REZ when you do
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Coach101 the compile. REZ will not destroy the material
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Coach101 in the data fork (the output from the linker) but
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Coach101 will place its (REZ's) output in the resource fork.
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Coach101 Done... GA
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AFL Dyfet It depends, in part, on what kinds of tools you are using to
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create your
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AFL Dyfet resource fork data with, too...
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Coach101 Right.... Dumb me... Overlooked a whole different
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Coach101 area...
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Coach101 You can also use APW's "Duplicate" tool to copy only the resource
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fork of one file into another
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Coach101 file. Caution is advised with "Duplicate", it was/is a stopgap
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tool and it has some anomalies
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Coach101 I would definitely recommend ONLY using the most current version
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from APW (that is the new stuff
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Coach101 that Tim has alluded to a couple of times)... DOne again. GA
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Matt DTS The new APDA stuff is shipping as of today. Call and order
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tomorrow if you like. :)
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AFL Dyfet GA Why...
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Doctor Why Also, if you are using the APW or ORCA shell, there is a REZ.TUTOR
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in the
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Doctor Why software libraries in this forum that has a MAKE exec to show you
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how it
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Doctor Why is done.
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I see the next question is from Lalanovich...GA Lalanovich,
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you have the
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AFL Dyfet floor now.
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Lalanovich Thanks for the great answers on my previous question. I've seen
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descriptions
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Lalanovich of resources elsewhere (latest Nibble, for example) that say
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something to
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Lalanovich the effect that you only need to move one file instead of a lot of
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supporting
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Lalanovich files. Does this mean that the resources are included as part of
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your main
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Lalanovich program in one big file or am I missing something here? Also, is
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it safe to
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Lalanovich assume that programs such as DesignMaster are using resources in
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doing what
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Lalanovich they do?
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AFL Dyfet In effect yes, the resource fork is attached directly to the
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program file,
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AFL Dyfet forming one large file, as far as the external user is concerned.
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Internally,
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AFL Dyfet there are two seperate file streams, however, and the resource
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file is further
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AFL Dyfet segmented into individual resource items. But if you are copying
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the file, you
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AFL Dyfet are copying everything all at once, together.
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AFL Dyfet Are there any other comments??
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ClubBob The object code is separate or not ...pgm/data
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Coach101 The data and resource forks of a file are two
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Coach101 independent entities from a programming point of view. When
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accessing the file via GS/OS you must
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Coach101 always specify which fork (data/resource) that you are using.
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Programs like Finder, interpret copy
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Coach101 commands to mean, copy both parts (data/resource) of the file.
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ga
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CodeMaster My brain hurts!
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CodeMaster I must have missed something!...
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CodeMaster I guess this is reallly not for raw beginners.
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CodeMaster I use Macs, I understand Desktop...
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CodeMaster I understand 75% of the GS Toolbox...
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CodeMaster But I can't get a handle <grin> on Resources!
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Coach101 Aha, he is looking for a pointer :)
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CodeMaster Is there a conseptual problem here?
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CodeMaster most likely! ;)
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CodeMaster I can't spell to nite either!
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AFA Gary J (use Memory Manager :)
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CodeMaster thanks Gary! ;)
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Coach101 What part gets you confused code?
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CodeMaster I guess, how the 2 mix, and how prgsa use Rez!
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CodeMaster Rez = Resource files.
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CodeMaster GA
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons Programs don't use Rez--the Rez compiler is just one way to create
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a resource fork full of
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Dave Lyons fun stuff. Once an application is built, it uses resources just
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by making appropriate toolbox
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Dave Lyons calls (like NewWindow2 with a resource-id-number). Does that
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help?
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CodeMaster You mean it is like doing a _SFGetFile call?
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Dave Lyons How?
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Dave Lyons If my program does a NewWindow2 to create a
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Dave Lyons window from a resource template, I just have to provide the
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resource id number, and the
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Dave Lyons Window Manager takes care of loading the template from my resource
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fork and calls NewWindow
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Dave Lyons with that template before it returns.
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CodeMaster A tool call that does a Dilaog Box for you.
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CodeMaster So all the resouce files, windows, BS, etc, have numbers...
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CodeMaster unique to them, I use a Tool call with a Resource ID, and add some
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info...
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Dave Lyons Well, inside
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Dave Lyons the resource fork, there are a bunch of resources. Each one is
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identified by a Resource Type (one
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Dave Lyons word) and a resource ID (4 bytes, somewhat limited range). The
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IDs only need to be unique within
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Dave Lyons a resource type (I can have a String ID=1 and a Window Template
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ID=1, no problem). When you
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Dave Lyons do something like NewWindow2, the toolbox *knows* what type it
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wants, so you only specify the
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Dave Lyons ID. For example,
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Dave Lyons NewControl2 *knows* it wants type rControlTemplate, so it feeds
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that to LoadResource for you.
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Dave Lyons (I decided NewWindow2 was a bad example...you actually do have to
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pass a resource type
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Dave Lyons there, since there are two different types possible.)
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Dave Lyons (ga)
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AFL Dyfet Any further comments...
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CodeMaster thanks :)
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CodeMaster ( I think )
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I guess Windrider has the floor next...GA Wind...
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Windrider5 from what little rez code that I have read, it seems that writing
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resources for
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Windrider5 menus takes a lot more effort than the old fashion way. Are there
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any short-
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Windrider5 cuts
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AFL Dyfet GA Dave...
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Dave Lyons Sure--use Genesys, DesignMaster, etc. ga
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Windrider5 is genesy available?
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Dave Lyons (I think so)
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Coach101 I agree with you Windrider. Raw REZ code can be as complex, or
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more complex, than just dropping
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Coach101 the appropriate code in your program. However, with the advent of
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DesignMaster and Genesys
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Coach101 (WSYWIG resource editors and/or compilers), the true power of
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resources will surface... done ga
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AFL Dyfet Genesys is particularly nice because it will also generate the
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interface code
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AFL Dyfet for using the resource you have created...
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A GibberFC Genesys is Available as we Speak!!! I just got my copy a couple of
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days ago!
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AFL Dyfet Genesys has been released since A-fest, actually...
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A GibberFC Put together a full set of menus and about 25 dialog boxes in a 2
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hour session
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A GibberFC <grin> GA
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AFL Dyfet Okay, I see that Doctor Why has the next question. GA Why...
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Doctor Why What was Matt's announcement about a new product available through
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APDA?
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Matt DTS The new version of APW Tools and Interfaces, which is final.
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Matt DTS You can order it through Developer Tools Express even if you're
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not an APDA member.
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Matt DTS It's $50, or a $25 upgrade if you have the beta version.
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Doctor Why Is there a product #?
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Doctor Why (for an upgrad)
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Matt DTS It started shipping today. Yes, there is a product number. I
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just don't have it. <sigh>
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Matt DTS GA
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Doctor Why Okay, thanks.
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Coach101 But, Tim posted the product number here in the
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Coach101 development environments section.... I think
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Doctor Why (thanks, I'll check it out)
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A GibberFC This is a question for Matt... Is there a window on the release of
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the
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A GibberFC Scsi Tape and Scsi Scanner Drivers?
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Matt DTS I'm sure there is, but I don't know what it is. It should be
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available at APDA soon if not currently.
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Matt DTS GA.
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A GibberFC Great!! thanks :)
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AFL Dyfet Okay, are there any other questions for tonight?
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Doctor Why (looks like Gib and I are making calls to APDA tomorrow) :)
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