107 lines
14 KiB
Plaintext
107 lines
14 KiB
Plaintext
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SUBJECT: SWAN ATTESTS TO SOME OF COOPERS CLAIMS FILE: UFO1931
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===========================================================================THE CRUCIBLE <ParaNet Pi> 416-244-9999 - 24Hrs - 12/24/96 *HST*
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(1:223/264)=========================================================================== The following file contains selected excerpts
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from phone conversations I had with Robert Swan during the month of December.Bill Cooper both supplied me with his name, whereabouts, and "co
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de"by which Robert Swan was to know that it was okay to divulge information to me regarding his knowledge of what Bill Cooper had discussed w
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with him. As Bill Cooper did not have Swan's phone number, I had to find that out for myself. Additionally, Bill has asked that I not p
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ring Swan's address, as he does not want this individual "harassed". For those who are serious about getting to the truth of the matter, they
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will know how to find this individual. There will be no commentary from myself, as the file should speak for itself. Anything in [ ] b
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rackets will represent clarification of speech where necessary. Although several calls were made to RobertSwan, I have only included the most
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relevant material from 2 of them here. The purpose of my communicating with Robert Swan was to verify whether or not Bill Cooper had
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indeed shown him certain UFO-relateddocuments (ie. Project Aquarius papers) back in 1972. -Tom Mick
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us 1/22/89Note: "........" indicates conversation not reproduced here.Selected Excerpts from Phone Conversation (A) (WITHOUT KNOWING "CODE")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------........<MICKUS> "Of course you don't know me. I've been speaking with
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Bill Cooper". <SWAN> "Un-huh."<MICKUS> "And you knew him from a while back?" <SWAN> "Yes."........<MICKUS> "There's one thing I
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wanted to ask you. Bill has decided to go public with all he knows, and has been getting from his sources; about what he knew
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was about the U.S. govt. cover-up..." <SWAN> "Un-huh."<MICKUS> "...with UFOs, that type of thing..." <SWAN> "Un-huh."<MICKUS> "...and as one
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of the corroborating sources, he had mentioned your name to myself, and one other person as far as I know, about both of you
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seeing an Aquarius telex document back in '72. And I just wanted to find out, get confirmation from you that that was true
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, that the content in there was what Bill has reproduced." <SWAN> "You know I can't um...I can't verify that. I don't recall
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that."<MICKUS> "So you don't remember ever seeing anything like that?" <SWAN> "No. I may have. But off the top [of my head], you know that
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ts been years and years. And I don't, I don't at the present time remember...you know if I remember the circumstances or
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something...if you could let me know what the circumstances were, then I could piece it back together. To all of a sudd
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en to try and remember something like that... I mean, there's all kinds of discussions that we've had in the past, lengthy..
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.and so on."<MICKUS> "You mean related to this?" <SWAN> "Ahh, well there was a lot of stuff just as far as the carriers [aircraft]
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and stuff like that. But..." <MICKUS> "Just dealing with the military though?" <SWAN> "Yeah. ...but not anything that... He was always very
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above-board with stuff. As far as classified stuff, when I was on the...I think he was on the Enterprise...I don't remembe
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r, but I was on board one time, and we were going through...he was showing me around and stuff, and there was areas that he
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had access to that naturally I wouldn't. I know his knowledge is definitely there."<MICKUS> "So you can attest to that he has, or di
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d have this, high security rating that would give him access to..." <SWAN> "Oh yeah. Sh*t yeah.<MICKUS> "...cause he's come out an
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d said that he's got 4 different military intelligence sources." <SWAN> "Right. Well he was in the Air Force, the Navy... anyway,
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right now I can't really recall the...if I remember the circumstances maybe I could piece it back together...I'll thi
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nk about it...but as far as the UFO stuff, that...that was pretty much hearsay from what was going on on the carriers and st
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uff."<MICKUS> "You mean from Bill, or from other people?" <SWAN> "From Bill, yeah."<MICKUS> "Okay, this is the one thing he mentioned. The
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year was 1972 and it was an Aquarius-telex. Now I imagine if you did see this thing, it would probably stick in your mind...
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" <SWAN> "Yeah..."<MICKUS> "you know, about exchange of technology between Alien groups, Project Plato, then there was a Project Si
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gma about establishing communications, Project Redlight to test fly Alien aircraft, then there was the Project Snowbird to c
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over that up, and that was about all that was in the Aquarius document." <SWAN> "Yeah."<MICKUS> "But that doesn't ring a bell?" <S
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WAN> "No it doesn't."........<MICKUS> "But you say it could be true though?" <SWAN> "Oh yeah, it could be true, sure. He was really into th
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at. You know, I mean as far as... yeah he was really interested in that kind of sh*t. But I don't recall seeing that. And
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like you said, if I had, it probably would stick in my mind. However, if I remember the circumstances, like I said, maybe
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I could piece it back together, but right now..."<MICKUS> "About Bill's involvement, would you say that he's pretty level-headed
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about it? Was he talking about it all the time?" <SWAN> "No, I'd say he was pretty level headed about it."........ <SWAN> "Well he certai
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nly had access to a lot of information. I'm aware of that."........ <SWAN> "Basically what I had gathered from him is on the space
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shots and so on, from tracking and so on...the sightings that have been seen from astronauts in space, you know, communicati
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ons on board...just the sightings and so on. And I think thats what got his interest going on the thing. Navigation, he was
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a navigator I believe, and so he had all that front-line communication stuff going."<MICKUS> "I'm just curious, but is he bo
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und by any,...I know there are various regulations and this type of thing. But conceivably could he be in any hot water over
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..." <SWAN> "I would say so. Right off the top [of my head]". He's no longer in the military is he?<MICKUS> "No..."........========
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=============================================================Selected Excerpts from Phone Conversation (B) (WITH "CODE" THIS TIME)----------
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-----------------------------------------------------------........<MICKUS> "The reason why Bill doesn't want you to get in touch with
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him in the immediate interim, is because he has to get independent verification that he did see these particular document
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s so many years ago. Now you personally haven't spoken with him, or corresponded for how long would you say?" <SWAN> "Twel
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ve, thirteen years."........<MICKUS> "...the night before he was to get married, he apparently told you "on the eve of his wedding",
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that was to be the code or whatever,...that you originally weren't supposed to tell anyone about this because it was just c
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onfidential between both of you. But he was telling me about when he had his house up on Aeia Heights Dr....[Bill Said] " I
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lived only a few houses below him, it was at night, we had a few drinks, I showed him the documents and gave him a c
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opy of it. And we talked for about an hour about it. I asked him to never to discuss it with anyone as it was Top Secret. An
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d then we never discussed it again after that." <SWAN> "Right."<MICKUS> "So do you remember that?" <SWAN> "I remember something to
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that effect, yup."<MICKUS> "And he said in the document, the coversheet said Majesty, it had Sigma, Redlight, Snowbird, Luna, Delta
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, NRO, Pluto, Plato, Pounce and a description of the aliens and other info in it..."....... <SWAN> "There's been lots of di
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scussion and stuff, but as far as anything other than like you just said...really minor momentarily talking about...that's a
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ll well and good. But as far as going into depth and knowing exactly what all that stuff is, I don't."<MICKUS> "He said he d
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id give you a copy of something." <SWAN> "You know, I don't recall that. He possibly could have. The instance [of the meeting] I re
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member that occuring. But I don't remember him giving me a copy of anything because of his involvement with...he was with CI
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NCPACFLT then, and I don't really... He might have shown me that, but I don't... he never gave me a copy of it that I recall
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. If he had of, I would have definitely had it stashed some place, and probably would have lost it by now anyway."<MICKUS> "
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But theoretically it could be buried away somewhere in your old records?" <SWAN> "I've been through stuff over the last ten - fift
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een years, and I a haven't come across it. But there's been stuff that Bill's shown me on UFO stuff so..."........<MICKUS> "
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...is there anything that you can specifically remember that can be shown... Basically what I'm trying to determine is; Yes,
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you did see this particular document. Now I want to know that besides the fact that; Yes, you and Bill were talking about t
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he subject of...and..., this type of thing." <SWAN> "We were talking about the subject of UFOs quite a bit, and his interest in the
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m and all that. As far as all of the stuff that was Top Secret, whatever, there was stuff that he had told me and that he co
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uldn't say anything about, and so... And as far as getting a copy of some document, I don't really recall that, I may have s
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een it...but... And that period right before his wedding and all that, I remember that quite well."<MICKUS> "So if I take yo
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u back to that specific evening on Aeia Heights, and you are both talking over drinks, and Bill comes out and shows you this
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one set of documents. Do you not specifically recall that? Because that is important." <SWAN> "I specifically recall him
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showing me something, but as far as him giving me a copy, I don't recall."<MICKUS> "Well, forget about the copy part..." <SWAN> "As
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far as the exact Project and all of that, I can't really...if there was something in court or something and they would say,
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'positively do you remember reading blah blah blah', and honestly I cannot."<MICKUS> "So how would you characterize those documents
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? If you were to put it into your own sentence as to what he showed you, what would you say?" <SWAN> "Right off the top,\ '
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He showed me some papers with a bunch of stuff on it.' But as far as what it was, as far as what the Projects and stuff tha
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t you were talking about...that doesn't ring a bell to me."<MICKUS> "Like I said before, I don't want to involve you..." <SWAN> "H
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ey I'll tell you something, if I remembered, and if I had a copy of it, I wouldn't hesitate to get involved. I could careles
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s about...where a person hangs out. I'm not squeamish in any ways, about what you're talking about, all kinds of supernatura
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l stuff. If I had some knowledge of it, and I saw it...hell yeah man, I would get right into it."<MICKUS> "Actually, I was t
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hinking more of the...you know theoretically what some intelligence service could do to a person who... I thought that maybe
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you might not want to talk for that reason." <SWAN> "No no. After I talked with you the other time, I kinda gone back and
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re-lived conversations and stuff. As far as the contents of the document you are talking about... I know that we discussed a
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bunch of stuff as far as different things, but I don't know anything about the documents."<MICKUS> "Do you remember discus
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sing events connected with... Now, some of those Project names do they ring a bell at all? Or discussion of UFOs? Do you rem
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ember that as being central to what you were discussing, as opposed to just military..." <SWAN> "Well, if I got into the pa
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rticulars of the different operations or something, I would probably remember what was said. As far as the code names and al
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l of that kind of stuff, they really don't mean anything to me. As far as some of the things that were going on, I recall
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discussions on that. Its trying to piece together stuff that far back, and at that point in time it was fascinating to
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what was going on, but I didn't have any extreme interest in it."<MICKUS> "Would you say, thinking back to that time...that Yes, th
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e impression left is that this stuff that you saw dealt with UFOs. Was that..." <SWAN> "Oh yeah."<MICKUS> "That's clear the
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n, right?" <SWAN> "Oh yeah."<MICKUS> "You're just talking specifics now. And although you may not remember what was on the pages, w
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hatever, can you think back in your mind, and actually see Bill passing something over for you to look at...or referring to
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something in front of him, specific documents." <SWAN> "Yeah, I remember that. I remember that, but its like I said, as f
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ar as the contents and so on, that was just discussed. As far as a copy, I don't recall getting one.".......========================
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================================================ [ - End of File - ]
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**********************************************
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* THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo *
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**********************************************
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