524 lines
20 KiB
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524 lines
20 KiB
Plaintext
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SUBJECT: COMPUSERVE OCN WITH TRACY TORME, 10/88 FILE: UFO1696
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[This document contains the transcript of the Issues Paranormal forum Sunday
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Night Conference dated October 16, 1988. Special surprise guest is Tracy Torme
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one of the principles in the production of the recent television broadcast "The
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UFO Coverup". - Ted Markley]
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User User ID Nod Rm Name / Forum Area
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---- ------------ --- --- -----------------
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26 71605,2013 SFM 5 Gerry
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37 76011,1324 TOM 5 Gregg Gallagher
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42 70511,17 CRZ 5 Mike
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44 76057,276 TAM 5 Tom Shaughnessy
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49 72135,424 PNB 5 Drax
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49 72135,424 PNB 5 Tracy Torme
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64 76340,1653 QLA 5 Jim
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83 72310,2472 BOI 5 Don M
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97 76703,266 WBR 5 G-WIZ
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109 76474,2001 HAR 5 Mike Lee
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109 72750,463 WPM 5 samuel lamerson
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113 76510,3430 DCI 5 Doug
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121 71450,3504 ANN 5 Bert
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124 76012,3361 MRT 5 Ted
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141 72750,1654 WIL 5 CHRIS
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142 74270,3360 BOI 5 DON
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146 71340,276 SOR 5 Mark
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148 76703,244 HWV 5 Dave Peyton
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(5,Drax) Good news
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(Ted) Tell us Drax!
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(5,Drax) Tracy Torme, one of the producers of the special, will be calling me
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voice soon wants to respond to your comments. GA
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(Ted) Ok. Are we all ready? Ok. This seems as good as spot as any to get
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started....
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(5,Gregg Gallagher) Question: Why no media coverage of allegations made in
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special??
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(Ted) For those new to our Sunday night CO we operate under formal CO rules
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(particularly with this many people!) Ok. The hot topic tonight is the "UFO
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Coverup" TV special presented last Friday night. Several messages expressing a
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variety of opinions have already appeared on the Issues Paranormal message
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board. Tonight, my co host [DRAX] will be in touch via voice line with one of
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the principals of the show, Tracy Torme. Ok, let's open up the Floor. GA
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(5,Gregg Gallagher) ?
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(5,DON) ?
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(5,Bert) ?
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(Ted) Ok. Gregg was first. GA GREGG
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(5,Gregg Gallagher) Thanks - My family and myself were somewhat blown away by
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the special- question is why no media attention??
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(Ted) Good Question. I know that DON was trying to get some [media] attention
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locally, DON can you comment (then DRAX) ga
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(5,Drax) May I?
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(5,DON) Ok, I contacted the local station that was broadcasting the special, in
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order to see if they would be interested in a hook up, with myself, Don Mason,
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the Idaho State MUFON Director, who is here tonight for the first time and
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although the staff was interested, they had to get the General Managers after 4
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phone calls from me....still no response. I feel that it is like many things
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connected with this phenomenon.... if they thought that it would help ratings.
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GREAT!! however, they never responded back. Now for my comment. The special
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was special in many ways more information than I would have believed, from two
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intelligence operatives. At last, an appearance of believability from someone
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associated with the US Gov. However, how much was left out? I think that there
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were generous amounts of disinformation given out very freely, so as not to
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alarm the public?? Hopkins, I feel sold out for the almighty $. He wasn't shy
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about what really happens to the victims in his books, why not where it would
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really generate some curiosity? ga
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(5,Jim) ?
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(Ted) Ok. Jim, er... DRAX... now has Tracy on line and besides DRAX had a
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comment. GA DRAX
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(5,Drax) Well, I was going to type in what Tracy had started to dictate to me
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for the message base, but since he's here now, lets go right to his opening
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comments....
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[From here on Tracy Torme will actually be DRAX typing his responses while in
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contact over the telephone - ed.]
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(5,Tracy Torme) As the show was being developed a major split in philosophy took
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place between Seligman (producer) on one side and Brubaker and I on the other
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Seligman is basically LBS, so there was no question of who would have the final
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say. KB and I both backed away from the project, concentrating on "damage
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control" etc. In answer to certain comments. The "huge" GB audience actually
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WAS huge. We had an overflow crowd that filled another room who were not on
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camera. We had to partition off that room for technical reasons. Because the
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rest of the show ran long GB was cut nearly in half, which explains brevity and
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superficiality of presentation of that segment. Also, AGREED that never-ending
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music was TERRIBLE, and pace of show was WAY too fast. KB and I were dead-set
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against use of teleprompter but were overruled. My problem with the show was
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that we tried to squeeze too much into too little time. BUT DISAGREE about lack
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of meaningful content. Basically, this was the first show to present MJ-12,
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Roswell, FALCON, CONDOR, Emenegger film, Coleman sighting, Russian UFO interest,
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etc. etc. Hope these firsts were not overwhelmed by certain problems caused by
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live broadcast remember, live TV leaves one wide open for clumsy looking
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mistakes. Tape doesn't. GA
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(5,DON) ??
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(Ted) First Tracy (via DRAX) I want to say that I think the show gave the
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general public what it has never seen before. I think the first-time "problems"
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should and can be forgiven.. Next is Bert GA
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(5,Bert) Tracy, have you or the other producers gotten any inquiries from other
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parts of the media on the show. I would think the hook up with the Russians
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alone would constitute media interest, regardless of the subject matter. ga
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(Ted) Ok, Tracy Torme GA
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(5,Tracy Torme) I did several interviews including AP and UPI before the show
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nothing immediately following show. I'll know more when I get back to LA on
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Tuesday (I'm still in Gulf Breeze). GA
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(5,DON) ??
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(Ted) Ok Jim is up next ga Jim
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(5,Jim) I found much of the program presented information already known to the
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general public and found the testimonies of both Condor and Falcon extremely
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unbelievable specially the parts consisting of allowing the ETs to have complete
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control of an military base and having their favorite food being strawberry ice
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cream. GA
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(5,DON) ??
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(5,Tracy Torme) I'm a skeptic on "the birds" stories as well suspect
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disinformation. However, I think you're flat wrong about saying the general
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public knew most of what was presented I made a short list of some of the things
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which were new to the public. Can you say otherwise? (in a follow-up)? GA
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(Ted) Any follow Jim? ga
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(5,Jim) Ted to follow up. Well to begin with I suspected Blue Book to be a front
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for a larger operation so the MJ-12 was not a surprise. Most of the information
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presented has been published previously in one form or another as well as being
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channeled by people who claim to be in contact with ets...the only thing that
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caught me off guard was the claim for the military base under alien control and
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the supposed ship the military has. Why would advanced civilizations allow us
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to carry our problems...ie war and discord into space on one of their vehicles.
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GA
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(5,Tracy Torme) First you said, "I found much of the program presented
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information already known to the general public". Do you honestly believe that
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because SOME of this material was published somewhere the general public is
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familiar with it? Again, I say that criticism that there was nothing new is
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unfair and untrue GA
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(5,DON) ??
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(5,Mike) ?!
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(5,Jim) Well how's this. What "may" have been new REEKED of the National Enquire
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type journalism. GA
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(5,Tracy Torme) OK. I am critical in many ways of the other night's show
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however, you continue to make broad statements which don't seem to have
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specifics behind them. Even at its worst, this show was certainly much higher
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journalistically than the National Enquirer...don't confuse the format with the
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content. GA
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(5,Bert) ?
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(5,Jim) ?
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(Ted) People we must move on. Gerry was next then DON and BERT ga Gerry
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(5,Gerry) I agree with some that this was a history making event even though
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much of the material was already in print such as in *Aztec*. I would like to
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ask tracy if he thinks this was somehow "permitted" to be aired as a damage
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control maneuver. Also acknowledge that a pretty face was put on what may be a
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very sinister situation for all of us. What about that? ga
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(5,Tracy Torme) OK, first not to belabor point, but please keep in mind that
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most UFO literature, especially books like "AZTEC" reach a TINY percentage of
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the population. To say "I read that before in Len Stringfield's book, therefore
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its not new information," is to be wildly unrealistic. Second, all kinds of
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rumors abound regarding ulterior motives or...
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(5,Gerry) i agree
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(5,Tracy Torme) higher involvement with this special. I can't say for sure
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they're untrue, but my personal opinion is, this was just a show made for profit
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by a TV production company. GA
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(5,Gerry) follow?
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(Ted) Quick follow Gerry? ga
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(5,Gerry) ok... but wouldn't there have been interference in other efforts in
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the past? ga
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(5,Tracy Torme) Very hard to say. The line between Big Brother-type involvement
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and paranoia (which frankly runs rampant in this field) is a fine one. GA
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(5,Gerry) thanks ga
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$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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(Ted) Next is DON ga
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(5,DON) Tracy, two things first, why was not Phil Imbrogno on the telecast, and
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Hudson Valley for the purposes of the transcript all all of the material think
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it is much more important than Gulf Breeze and second, why no information out to
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the public about the real phenomenon of what really occurs during abductions?
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ga
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(5,Tracy Torme) pushed hard for"hybrid" theory of abductions to be explored and
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also for Imbrogno's involvement failure to include them was simply the
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producer's decision based on time constraints and personal taste. Also, I
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disagree that HV is more important than GB. In fact I think just the opposite.
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GA
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(Ted) Bert is next GA
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(5,Doug) !
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(5,Bert) Tracy, despite certain rough aspects of the show, I suspect the ratings
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will be found to be fairly high I would think there might be strong interest in
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a mini series documentary, perhaps focusing on different stories such as GB and
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Hudson Valley, etc as separate one hr programs (not necessarily live). Have you
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considered doing anything like this? ga
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(Ted) Ok, added to that what were the ratings and how many callers. GA
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(5,Tracy Torme) Would like to see something like that too. No knowledge of
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anything in the works. Too early to tell about ratings, callers, etc. GA
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(Ted) Jim you're up again ga
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(5,Mike) !!!
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(5,Tracy Torme) (that's too bad!)
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(Ted) keep it BRIEF!!! ga doug
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(5,Doug) have found reaction among friends to be positive and most have little
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knowledge of the subject most are starting to read now Isn't that the desired
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reaction? ga
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(5,Tracy Torme) Yes, absolutely! GA
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(Ted) Mike, yer up! ga
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(5,Mike) first, I applaud your efforts in getting this stuff OUT THERE...a
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frequent comment I've heard was that the 900# was a scam to make $.GA
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(5,Tracy Torme) In my humble opinion, the 900 number idea was simply STUPID.
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First off, we had a number for those who HAVEN'T seen UFOs how many people are
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going to bother to tell us what they HAVEN'T seen. The entire idea was silly,
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but was "commercial," therefore was in from the very beginning its called
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"Living in the USA." No knowledge of direct profit motive, therefore can't
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confirm nor deny but I doubt it. GA
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(Ted) Still I would be interested in how many total callers there were. This
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will give some idea of the interest level. ga
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(5,Tracy Torme) Couple more questions, then we've got to skedaddle. GA
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(5,Mike) do you know anything about the people behind the new War of the Worlds?
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(5,Tracy Torme) Yeah, they're friends of mine. What would you like to know?
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(5,Mike) I just noticed that they are incorporating a lot of UFO lore and
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wondered who they were.ga
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(5,Tracy Torme) Yes. Greg Stranges is the main guy behind it, and is very
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familiar with Hopkins' work. Another driving force on the show is an abductee.
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GA
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(Ted) I have a quick one. What do you see in Jim Speiser???? We have found him
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to be a egocentric guy. (HAH!) ga
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(5,Tracy Torme) the lovable dean of Ufology, Hal Starr to be his personal
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sidekick and traveling companion. GA
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(Ted) Tracy we thank you for your time and attention tonight we hope that you
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can visit us again soon (and you don't have to drag Speiser with you !!!) Thanks
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again - and all kidding aside Jim, that for a wonderful evening. ga
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(5,Drax) Tracy says Thanks for the opportunity, and I say your welcome. GA
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(5,Gerry)
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(Ted) I thought it might be interesting to do a quick survey of the thoughts on
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the show, but first where is everybody from? GA
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(Ted) NJ ga
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(5,Gerry) Oakland CA
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(5,samuel lamerson) w. palm beach ga
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(5,Mike) CA
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(5,Bert) MI
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(5,Mark) Salem, OR
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(5,Doug) DC
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(5,Dave Peyton) Huntington WV
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(5,Drax) Fountain Hills, AZ
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(5,samuel lamerson) ?
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(5,DON) Boise, Id
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(Ted) First survey ? How many though the show was valuable? ga
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(5,Drax) Me!
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(5,DON) ?
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(Ted) ME
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(5,Gerry) yes!!
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(5,Bert) yes
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(5,DON) Me
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(5,Mike) Me too!
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(Ted) How many called in for further government investigation? ga
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(Ted) ME
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(5,Drax) Me!
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(5,DON) me
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(5,Doug) nah!
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(5,Gerry) didn't but should have
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(5,Bert) should have also
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(5,Mike) ditto
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(Ted) How many have seen a UFO CE I
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(5,DON) How about Government disclosure
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(5,Mike) Me
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(5,DON) me
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(5,Doug) no
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(5,Gerry) nope
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(Ted) How many have been involved in a CE II
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(5,Doug) no
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(Ted) Any abductions? ga
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(5,DON) I think Dale was!
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(Ted) Any one else want to take a vote on a ? ga
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(5,DON) How many think there was disinformation
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(5,DON) me
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(5,Drax) Me
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(Ted) ME
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(5,Mike) maybe
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(5,Dave Peyton) bound to be some
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(5,Gerry) by selection of material
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(5,Doug) pass
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(5,Drax) You mean, "official" disinfo, right Don?
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(5,DON) Yes
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(5,Mike) How about discussing that?
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(5,Drax) !
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(5,samuel lamerson) ?
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(Ted) Samuel has been waiting, GA SAM
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(5,samuel lamerson) I am new to all of this and would like to know where to find
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more information (periodicals etc.) ga
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(5,DON) ??
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(Ted) Try "Intruders" by Budd Hopkins (Drax?) ga
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(5,Drax) OK, briefly, (because my girlfriend is mad at me). Or Try MUFON UFO
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Journal ( Seguin TX). Some best info comes from Citizens Against UFO Secrecy
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(CAUS) contact me by EMAIL for their address -- 72135,424. Of course, ParaNet,
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but I don't like to toot my own horn...
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(5,DON) I'm not shy
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(5,Drax) Don's not shy...
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(5,Drax) heheh...
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(5,Doug) !
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(5,samuel lamerson) I call the para-0n in Phoenix is that the one?
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(5,Gerry) I'd give my reading list but I read only discredited material
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(Ted) Where can he reach ParaNet? ga
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(5,DON) ??
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(5,Drax) that's one of them, Samuel, but Don's board is just as good...
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(5,Bert) MUFON, 103 Oldtowne Rd., Seguin, TX 78155-4099
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(5,samuel lamerson) I live in Florida, anything close?
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(5,Drax) I believe that the entire MJ-12 scenario as painted by Moore is
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disinformation, to cover something similar. GA
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(5,DON) ??
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(5,Drax) Nothing in FL, one in Atlanta.
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(5,DON) the segment concerning the EBE's alleged fondness for ice cream was just
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TOO much an obvious attempt to make them look "REAL AMERICAN" and benign.
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Considering what..
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(5,Mike) (or maybe they DO like ice cream)
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(5,DON) has occurred in the last few years, I found that very distasteful. ga
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(Ted)Don. Do you think that the "Dipping the Hands in Blood" is more or less
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real that the Ice Cream? GA
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(5,DON) I have no answer for that, and I never ascribed to that theory, however
|
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while investigating mutes as a police officer, and after what I was told this
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summer by Paul, and many of the similar points of view on Friday by Falcon and
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Condor. Lear may be closer than many of us want to admit. ga
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(5,Doug) My point was made ga.
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(5,samuel lamerson) price for mufon, also here would I find printed material on
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gulf breeze and mj-12? ga
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(5,Bert) $25.00 per year.
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(Ted) Try LIB 10 here and also MUFON publications. Mike is next ga
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(5,Mike) is quite a bit of anecdotal data indicating neutral if not GOOD aliens
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as well.ga
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(5,Gerry) yes I was going to make the mute point but Don did, and also the leaks
|
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pertaining to autopsies all seem to point to no digestive system as we know it.
|
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|
In fact, the mouth cavity dead ends. Also agree about many different types of
|
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aliens and motives. Much more could be said about this, but no room here to go
|
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into it. ga
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(5,Bert) Don referred to his friend Paul who is the subject of a file that Don
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|
loaded up on LIB 10. BTW there has been great interest in that file as it has
|
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|
had over 60 downloads in abut 10-15 days (probably a major record on CIS)...
|
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(5,Gerry) agent.txt?
|
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(5,Bert) I was wondering, Don, if you've had any contact with Paul about the TV
|
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|
show last Friday. Also any possible connections between Falcon, Condor, Lear
|
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|
and Bill English? ga
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(5,DON) first Paul is recovering from a very serious illness right now I have
|
||
|
not had any direct contact with him since his illness as to Lear. Paul took ill
|
||
|
when he heard his story was on CIS. John called me this weekend, and we had a
|
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long conversation as a matter of fact I am now writing a file that I hope to
|
||
|
have posted this week that concerns Lear, the broadcast, and how much of this
|
||
|
ties together. ga
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(Ted) Great. We look forward to reading it when do you think you will upload it?
|
||
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ga
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(5,DON) I hope to have it completed and posted by Weds.
|
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(5,samuel lamerson) can you recommend a couple of files that would give me kind
|
||
|
of an overview of who lear is, more about mj12 and other things?ga
|
||
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|
||
|
(Ted) First DIR.1 and DIR.2 contain a brief description of all Lib 10 files.
|
||
|
Try KEYWORD searching on LEAR and MJ-12. ga
|
||
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|
||
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(5,Bert) LEAR.TXT on LIB 10
|
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||
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(5,samuel lamerson) thanks very much for the help, goodnight all
|
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|
||
|
(5,Doug) I noticed three different types of aliens described new to me was the
|
||
|
two russians (sounded like a little too much vodka) and the AF "Training film
|
||
|
landing" Any comments? ga
|
||
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|
||
|
(5,DON) The Landing at Holloman as alleged to have taken place in 1964 now one
|
||
|
element of disinformation is this. A number of years ago, Rod Serling did a
|
||
|
film that explored the UFO enigma the climax of the docudrama was to have been
|
||
|
film shot during the landing at the AF base. Then according to some "cold feet"
|
||
|
prevailed, because of what the EBE's were found out to have been doing. Much of
|
||
|
what Lear wrote about concerns the alleged "deal" that Uncle Sam was supposed to
|
||
|
have made with the EBE's. Now, as of Friday, it appears to have been proven by
|
||
|
the admission of the two intelligence agents. At least the part about the
|
||
|
"deal". Who really knows, time will tell. ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(5,Bert) Just wondering about the possibility of getting Lear on as a guest here
|
||
|
in the near future. Also what about the possibility of Linda Howe as a guest?
|
||
|
does anyone here know Linda well enough to call her? ga
|
||
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|
||
|
(5,Mike) I went to school with her but haven't spoken in years.
|
||
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|
||
|
(Ted) I'll call Lear ga <gotta go people> ga
|
||
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|
||
|
(5,DON) Ted, Wedge may know how to contact her.
|
||
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|
||
|
(5,Gerry) I know a good friend of hers.
|
||
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|
||
|
(5,DON) Ted, are you going to talk to Lear tonight?
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) No, I'll try calling Tuesday or Wednesday. You wanna call him? ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(5,DON) I thought that I may speak to him tonight.
|
||
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|
||
|
(Ted) Ok Great. We'll get him a free PPN for the night. OK? ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(5,DON) What about a PPN for moi? Do you know what my card said to me last time
|
||
|
I got the bill?
|
||
|
|
||
|
(Ted) "Ouch!" ? ga
|
||
|
|
||
|
(5,DON) Ya.
|
||
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|
||
|
(Ted) Nite all! ga
|
||
|
(5,Bert) nite Ted!
|
||
|
(5,DON) Nite Ted
|
||
|
(5,DON) Nite all
|
||
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|
||
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|
||
|
**********************************************
|
||
|
* THE U.F.O. BBS - http://www.ufobbs.com/ufo *
|
||
|
**********************************************
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