textfiles/messages/BACKWATER/bw830120.txt

NUMBER OF LINES: 563 
1 If you are in need of help, you need but ask....
2 ************************ REMOVED: 20 JAN 83 ****************************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day System operator
4 ************************************************************
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
6                     THIS SYSTEM.
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
12 right to remove any and all messages from the system which are offensive
13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
20 use the replace command to replace the line.
21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
23 ========================================
24 WOW! THE SYSTOP-MICKEY WAS QUICK IN GETTING A NEW DISK IN!
25 WILL MIRACLES EVER CEASE! I WONDER WHEN HE IS GOING TO
26 DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE TELEPHONE PROBLEMS?
27 BY THE WAY, THE PROBLEM LIES IN THE LOUDNESS OF THE TONES
28 CARRIED OVER THE TELEPHONE LINES. IF YOU MODIFY YOU MODEM
29 TO INCREASE ITS INPUT/OUTPUT THE PROBLEMS WILL CEASE.
30 (IT IS SO FAINT THAT MY MODEM HAS PROBLEMS KEEPING THE CARRIER)
31 I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS AT ALL ON THE OTHER BBS SYSTEMS.
32 JUST LISTEN TO THE PHONE, YOU CAN HEAR THE DIFFERENCE.
33 CISTOP- A FEW AdJUSTMENTS WON'T COST YOU A THING, HAVE AT!
34 *****************THE SYSM, DAVID GREENMAN*****************
35 ***************** 01/05/83 9:37 P.M.    *****************
36 
37   
38 =============================
39 Ken Wilkenson will have his
40 Timex/Sinclair ZX81 at the
41 PCS meeting, if you would
42 like to evaluate it.  It has
43 a 16K expansion with 3 prom
44 slots available, a REGULAR
45 keyboard made especially for
46 the ZX81 and a modem.  The
47 Shugart disk drive will be
48 added later.
49 =============================
50 *********************************************************
51 NEATO! KEN WILKENSON NOW HAS A BIGGER TOY TO PLAY WITH!
52 
54 ______________
55 The loudness of the carrier does seem to be very low.  Should
56 definitely be raised.
57 ______________
58 
59 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
60 Further drivel on processors:
61 The 6502 appears to be a 'dead end' processor.  Why?  What
62 has come along that is either source- or object-code compatible
63 with it?  Close to nothing, probably nothing.  With the 8080
64 software, you get compatibility wit 8085, Z80, NSC800, plus one
65 of the National 16-bit processors.  Further, in about a year the
66 Z-800 will be available, with a speed approx equal to a 20-mhz
67 Z-80.    It shows that this architecture and instruction set is
68 being supported quite well (by the way, the fastest 8085 available
69 is 10 Mhz, fastest Z80 is 8 Mhz).  Clearly, in the future systems
70 and software designed around this series will be more compatible
71 than the 6502.  Not only the 8-bit machines, but the 8086 is
72 source-compatible with 8080, which is why we already have the
73 amount of 8086 software we do.  Compare this with the 68000, 
74 which is still spinning its (admittedly fast) wheels.
75 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
76 I AM HERO ONE
77 I AM A ROBOT 
78 I HAVE JUST GOT MY NEW ELCTRIC HANDS
79 SO I WANT TO MEET NEw FRIENDS
80 WNNT YOU PLEAE BE MY FRIEND?
81  what is this stuffwe are getting on thi 
82 this stuff ir pretty strange
83 I do^t like conversing with a robot
84 It would be a good Idea to ban robots
85 from this system
86         THE SLNTH
87     THE SLOTH
88 ...............................................................
89 I have a friend with both a ZX-80 & a T/S 1000. I'm sure he'd
90 like that game so please put it on O Great SYSOP!
91 	Reagarding the ZX-80 & 81, I admit that they're pretty
92 low grade computers, but my friend couldn't AFFORD anything
93 better. (The T/S 1000 was a christmas gift).
94 	Price is more important than most ad writers seem to
95 realize. I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see an ad
96 calling $2500+ computer "affordable"! According to some census
97 data I saw $16K is the median income in the US. I make a bit more
98 but $2500 is 2 1/2 months take home pay!! (believe it or not
99 I DON'T qualify for loans or credit at most places, so I'm
100 talking CASH)
101 ................................................................
102 
103 THE JAPANESE ARE COMING!
104 THE JAPANESE ARE COMING!
105  >> look out Timex/Sinclair <<
106 
107 **********************************************************
108 SYSOP MIKEY==
109 Please do put in your TINY WUMPUS on here.
110 Would you be upset if i converted it to run on
111 another brand of computer - and then published
112 it in a magazine?
113 *******************************************************************
114 ps. yes, I would be willing to give you credit
115 (money is another matter though)
116 *****************************************************************
117 
118 
119 *********************************************************************
120                 BIT BUCKET Bulletin Board Back UP
121 *********************************************************************
122 
123   This is to announce that the BIT BUCKET Bulletin Board system
124 is tentatively back up.  The problems that were plaguing it last
125 week when I first brought it up have been resolved (I Hope!) and
126 I think now that it is ready to go again.  There have been a few
127 changes, mostly for the better.  The phone number is 761-xxxx.
128 Buadrate is 300.  Hours are variable...mostly weekdays and late
129 evenings.  Give it a call try it out.  Please leave a message
130 to System Operator letting me know you made it, and what you
131 think of the system. 
132 
133        Rick Bensene - System Operator, BIT BUCKET
134 01-06-82  10:21PM
135 *********************************************************************
136 P.S. ^^^^^  To get in, press RETURN till you get a response after
137       getting the carrier. (Sorry 'bout that...)
138 
139 Has any body been able to access Bit-Bucket BB?
140 I've been trying with no success-
141 dan h. 12:46  7-jan-83
142 
143 ..............................................................
144 I gave up on Bit Bucket after sending carriage returns for
145 about a minute and a half with NO response from the system
146 L.E. 16:15 1/7/83
147 ..............................................................
148 I WILL CHECK OF THE XMITT LEVEL ON THE SYSTEM, HOWEVER I DON'T HAVE
149 ENORMOUS HOPES AS IT IS RUNNING PERMISIVE, AND AS SUCH I AM AT THE 
150 MERCY OF MA BELL AND WHAT EVER LOSS OCCURS BETWEEN HERE AND THE EXCHANGE
151 I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO CHECK UNTIL NEXT WEEK THOUGH AS MY EQUIPMENT IS
152 ON LONE. OF COURSE I COULD ALWAYS BOOST IT TO THE LEVEL THAT IS THE
153 MAX ACCEPTABLE BY THE EXCHANGE SINCE I CAN GET THAT INFO BY A ROUND
154 ABOUT METHOD, BUT THAT IS NOT LEGAL WITH A PERMISSIVE ARRANGEMENT.
155 ********** CISTOP MIKEY ******* 7 JAN 83 ***************************
156 
157 Just a point to keep in mind, the 10Mhz 8085 really operates at 5Mhz
158 as the clock is divded internally by 2. I am very displeased at the 
159 way sales types keep trying to push that crap on the unsuspecting
160 by saying it runs at 10Mhz because it happens to use a 10Mhz xtal!
161 
162 ..................................................................
163 P.S. a 6502 can be pushed to 10Mhz real speed by giving it 6 volts
164 power. The problem? finding RAM and other parts that can run that
165 fast. A 6502 running at 10Mhz has the same thruput as a Z80 running
166 at 25Mhz on an average.
167 
168 ....................................................................
169 
170 MINI-WUMPUS FOR THE ZX80-81  VERSION #1  BY MIKE DAY
171 1 LET Y=1
172 2 PRINT "PLAY?"
173 3 INPUT Y
174 **** SET UP THE BURROW
175 5 RANDOMIZE
176 10 DIM D(6)
177 15 FOR C=1 TO 6
178 20 NEXT C
179 30 LET M=-1
180 35 LET S=0
181 **** ENTRANCE FROM ARROW ROUTINE
182 40 CLS
183 **** ENTRANCE FROM BAD MOVE
184 45 LET N=D(6)
185 50 GO SUB 800
186 **** ENTRANCE FROM GOOD MOVE OR BAT SNATCH
187 **** FIND OUT IF WE HIT ANYTHING
188 55 IF N=D(1) THEN GO TO 700
189 60 IF N=D(2) OR N=D(3) THEN GO TO 600
190 65 IF N=D(4) OR N=D(5) THEN GO TO 500
191 **** DIDN'T HIT ANYTHING, SO FIND OUT WHAT'S NEARBY
192 70 LET D(6)=N
193 75 GO SUB 800
194 80 FOR C=1 TO 5
195 85 IF NOT D(C)=X AND NOT D(C)=Y AND NOT D(C)=Z THEN GO TO 110
196 90 IF C=1 THEN PRINT "WUMPUS NEAR"
197 95 IF C=2 OR C=3 THEN PRINT "PIT NEAR"
198 100 IF C=4 OR C=5 THEN PRINT "BAT NEAR"
199 110 NEXT C
200 ***** NOW TELL 'EM WHERE THEY ARE AT
201 120 PRINT "IN",D(6)
202 130 PRINT "ROOMS",X,Y,Z
203 140 PRINT "TO?",
204 150 INPUT N
205 **** DO THEY WANT TO SHOOT AN ARROW?
206 160 IF N=S THEN GO TO 200
207 **** IS IT A VALID MOVE?
208 170 CLS
209 180 IF N=X OR N=Y OR N=Z THEN GO TO 55
210 **** NOPE! REPRINT EVERYTHING
211 190 PRINT "HUH?"
212 195 GO TO 45
213 **** DART ROUTINE
214 200 PRINT "S"
215 210 PRINT "SHOOT TO?",
216 220 INPUT N
217 230 PRINT N
218 **** DON'T SHOOT?
219 240 IF N=M THEN GO TO 400
220 **** GOT THE WUMPUS?
221 250 IF N=D(1) THEN GO TO 400
222 **** NOPE! SO MOVE THE WUMPUS
223 260 LET N=D(1)
224 270 GO SUB 800
225 280 LET D(1)=RND(20)
226 290 IF D(1)=X OR D(1)=Y OR D(1)=Z THEN GO TO 40
227 300 GO TO 280
228 **** GOT THE WUMPUS!
229 400 PRINT "GOT HIM"
230 410 RUN
231 **** BAT ZAP!
232 500 CLS
233 510 LET N=RND(20)
234 520 PRINT "ZAP"
235 530 GO TO 55
236 **** FELL IN A PIT!
237 600 PRINT "FELL IN PIT"
238 610 RUN
239 **** THE WUMPUS GOT YOU!
240 700 PRINT "WUMPUS GOT YOU"
241 710 RUN
242 **** LOCATOR ROUTINE (CALCULATES NEIGHBORING ROOMS)
243 800 IF N-10>0 THEN GO TO 870
244 810 LET Z=N+10
245 820 LET Y=N+1
246 830 IF N=10 THEN LET Y=1
247 840 LET X=N-1
248 850 IF N=1 THEN LET X=10
249 860 RETURN
250 870 LET Z=N-10
251 880 LET Y=N-2
252 890 IF N-13<0 THEN LET Y=N+8
253 900 IF N-18>0 THEN LET X=N-8
254 910 RETURN
255 **** END OF MINI-WUMPUS
256 *****************************************************
257 STATEMENTS PRECEEDED BY **** ARE NOT PART OF THE PROGRAM, 
258 I ONLY PUT THEM IN TO LET YOU KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON.
259 ***** THE MARVALOUS CISTOP MIKEY **** 7 JAN 83 **************
260 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////
261 Contrary to the misinformation presented above, a 10 MHz 8085
262 really runs at 10 Mhz, with a 20 Mhz xtal used externally.
263 Most systems designed use a 5 Mhz 8085, with a 10 Mhz xtal.
264 I truly doubt if increasing the vcc to a 6502 would make it
265 run at anywhere near 10 Mhz.  Why?  Microprocessors typically
266 aren't speeded up more than about 10-20% by this, so if a 
267 significant fraction of parts actually could run at 10 Mhz
268 'hot', the manufacturer would be easily able to sell them at 8
269 Mhz or 6 Mhz.  As far as I can tell, the fastest common 6502
270 is 3Mhz, while most systems use 2 Mhz.  They may have 4 Mhz
271 parts in very small quantities, but that's nowhere near 10 Mhz.
272 
273 In any case, it seems than the 6502 and z80 are relatively
274 similar in speed, which is reasonable considering they are
275 built on processes of a similar technology level.
276 Further, in computation-intensive businesses, it is generally
277 true that programmers won't re-program their software 
278 unless the target machine is at least twice as fast as the
279 current machine.  Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth it.  In
280 home computing, this would be more like a factor of 4.
281 So there is little reason related to speed why anyone would
282 want to convert 6502 software to z80 or vice versa.  However,
283 their is a big reason concerning software compatibility:
284 With all of the new Z-80 based computers (Big boards, Zerox 820,
285 Kaypro, Osborne, Micro Decision) and all of the old ones, the
286 CP/M compatibility is critical.  It's true that as more 16 bit
287 computers come on line the Z-80 will be less important, but
288 the assembly language compatibility is still there.
289 	By the way, check out the Z800.  Little info yet, but
290 looks better all the time.
291 ---------------------------------------------------
306 I know this is an odd time of year to be doing this, but is
307 anyone interested in a crotch rocket. I have a suzuki GS1100E, a trely incred-
308 ible machine. I love it but rarely ride. I want to sell it to add some new 
309 'puter goodies, and so I'll take either a good daisywheeler or an Epson 100
310 in partial trade. Low blue book is 2500. The bike is an '80, excellent condition
311 (I used to be a motorcycle mechanic).  Anyone intterested can leave a message
312 here or call me at xxx-xxxx days or xxx-xxxx eves/wkends. I'm also interested
313 in a boat trailer that can handle a 23' boat as part trade, or rifles, or 
314 whatever. 
315 
316 by the way, to the Cistop, despite all the grumbling above about carrier cond-
317 ition, I have always been able to hold your system, even when I had problems
318 with my line on other systems. Strange world.
319 Bill B
320 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
321 
322 TO THE SYSOP REGARDING GETTING ON THE SYSTEM
323 
324 I THINK YOUR SYSTEM SUCKS. THIS IS THE WORST TRAVESTY OF COMPUTERS I HAVE
325 EVER ENCOUNTERED. I CAN'T BELIEVE ANYONE WITH AN OUNCE OF INTELLIGENCE
326 WOULD TRY TO MAKE A SYSTEM LIKE THIS RUN. DON'T YOU HAVE ANYTHING BETTER
327 TO DO? MAYBE MA BELL SHOULD MORE CLOSELY MONITOR WHAT GETS PUT ON HER 
328 LINES! I HOPE THIS SYSTEM GOES THE WAY OF SO MANY OTHER CRUDE BBS'S, DOWN
329 THE PROVERBIAL TOILET! HAVE A CRAPPY NEW YEAR!
330 
331 //////////........../////////
332 And now, a word from our sponsors.........
333 /////////........../////////
334 
335 
336 I will not argue with you in regard to if there is truly a 10Mhz 8085
337 as there very well could be (athough my INTEL manual says not), but
338 as with the 10Mhz 6502 I would be willing 
339 to bet they are extremly rare. I bring up the main cause of my statement
340 as a result of the continued bable from those who know not whereof they
341 speak that because a computer uses a 10Mhz xtal it must therefor run at
342 10Mhz. This is of course at best pure popycock!
343 I bring up the 10Mhz 6502 only as referance that it is possible, which
344 it is (I have seen it with my own eyes!) But this by no means is indicative
345 that it is a commonly reproducable thing. The actual machine was being 
346 pushed to the upmost of its limits, and in fact would crash sometimes
347 as well as requiring some very special hardware considerations as well as
348 programing. It used bipolar RAM and lookahead addressing in hardware
349 since there was no memory access time available it had to be already 
350 available upon request. This of course require certain specail programing
351 requirments to assure proper sequencing.
352   In regard to the same technology being used for both machines, again
353 I would have to take issue. The 8080/Z80/8085 machines are what are 
354 called state machines, that is they perform instructions by passing
355 thru a series of states. This is done because internaly they operate
356 in different machine langauge (called nano code) which then interperates
357 the incoming instruction and operates on it. The 6502 on the other hand
358 is a dirrect proccesor. That is it operates on the incoming code directly
359 with out the interveaning states. So although the two proccesors use the
360 same silicon and manufacturing processes to be made, there is far more
361 to be said as to how they are made to function. This is why a 6502
362 running at 2Mhz can keep up or run faster then a Z80 running at 4Mhz.
363 As was stated in an earlier message, the real test of a good proccesor
364 is how efficiently it uses it resources, not how fast it crunchs inside
365 since in the end it is whats on the outside that is important, not
366 what is in the inside. 
367    Now for the down side.. While I still like the 6502 very much, I 
368 have to agree that it is based on old technology and is begining to 
369 lose to some of the more powerfull machines (like the 186) but the
370 concepts on which it is based are stil very sound. There are only
371 two things about the 6502 that I find to be lacking to a fault,
372 the limitation of only being able to directly address 65K, and the
373 lack of seperate I/O capabilitiy. The lack of seperate I/O has been
374 a real argument raiser in the past, but I have found that once I
375 got use to the concept it was superior for me in handling I/O. 
376 Particularly the indirect ability of the Z80 to take a byte of memory
377 and output it in a single instruction. (Of course the 6502 can do
378 it faster with its indirect function, but I am speaking of programing
379 concepts here not hardware.) Which brings to mind another complaint
380 of mine, what good is a nifty instruction in a computer if the typical
381 programer can't figure out how to use it! If you take a look at most
382 programs, you will find that most do not take advantage of special
383 instructions unless there is no other way to do it. This is because
384 the programer must adhere to a pattern that he can understand so that
385 the program can be seen as a whole not as a collection of nifty parts.
386 *** MORE BABELOUS VERBAGE FROM CISTOP MIKEY *** 8 JAN 83 ************
387 **************************************************************
388 I don't know a lot of this technical stuff, but I do
389 know about makeing things, and upgrading them, and
390 other business type activities.
391 Perhaps the reason that the 6502 has not been superceded
392 is that it is (far from being a dead-end) still
393 the state of the art and it is not yet economical to
394 improve or replace it - whereas the z-80 familiy
395 seems to need a lot of improvement. when 16-bit really
396 becomes NECESSARY then Perhaps the 6502 will be upgraded
397 
398 to handle it (or be replaced with something better)
399 Companies don't go around messing with their product
400 if they don't have to - that you can be assured of.
401 also, few manufacturers want to see their product
402 die in the marketplace (unless it is uneconomical to produce-
403 and many superior products have been that)
404 ***********************************************************
405 I can't agree with you, I do not beleive that the Z80 is in need
406 of the improvements you suggest, being very familure with both
407 the 6502 and the Z80, I find them to be equally matched in
408 proccessing capabilities. The only real reason for going to
409 the 16biters that I have seen so far is the increased memory 
410 accessability. Even that has been very poorly used to date.
411 In fact I don't think I could honestly say that I have seen 
412 a 16bit micro perform any job yet that could not have just as
413 readily been done on an 8 biter. Any comments?
414 
415 ...........................................................
416 WANTED:
417               A 2101-2 RAM CHIP.
418 
419 Check all your junk (parts) bins, take a look at that old wire-wrap card you
420 just got, call your friends.  We have a customer with a customer in Boise
421 with a dead TI-810.  Yes, fellow hackers, the great TI still uses 2101's in 
422 the buffer.
423               Will Pay CASH.  Price NEGOTIABLE! Delivery time is 2-4
424               weeks from TI! This boy is in trouble!
425  
426 If you got one, or know were one is, call WRAM, xxx-xxxx and ask for Gary.
427 /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\1/09/83\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
428 
429 What alot of technicolor bull shit. The whole issue comes down to how much
430 software is available for a given processor, and what processor more
431 computer manufactures are making. The people who decide which processor
432 to use or not use are infinitely more sophisticated to a bunch of stick
433 in the muds who log in to a go nowhere computer system. They plan and
434 plan, and then plan again before they decide on which processor to
435 use. According to a survey in a recent Mini-Micro, the Z80 was
436 used in 1/3 of all micro, or planned micro computers. It was
437 far ahead of any other processor, including 6502, 8086/8, 6809, and 68000.
438 That is saying alot. Companies did not chose the Z-80 over others because
439 their brother in law works for Zilog, they choose it because it could do
440 what they wanted, now, without waiting for the software to be written. Out
441 in the big wide world, someone who is looking for a computer system doesn't
442 want a computer with software 'available soon'. They want it now. The
443 Z80 gives them the software they want now. They don't give a hoot in hell
444 if the 6502 is 2x the Z80, how much stuff is there for a 6502?
445 
446 **********TI 99/4 for sale***********
447 TI 99/4 , manuals and TI Invaders cartridg>enter
448 **********TI 99/4 for sale***********
449 TI 99/4 , manuals, and TI Invaders cartridge
450 	All new.
451 	All 150.00
452 Call rick at xxx-xxxx eves. and wkends.
453 ......................................................................
454 As to memory addressing, have any of you seen an Apple 3? It comes with
455 128k of memory, stock, and can be increased to 256k. It runs the obsolete
456 6502, and has access to most of the apple 2 data and program base. 8 bit
457 machines are not obsolete yet. As to why use an 8080 rather than a 6502,
458 it has a lot to do with what you want to do. They cetainly aren't the
459 last word in 8 bit machines, either. The 6809 should be able to run circles
460 around both (or around z-80) but hasn't seen much use beyond the TRS coco.  
461 Much the same reasons exist for using certain processors as certain
462 programming languages: availabilty, speed, future. The 16's will take
463 over eventually in general purpose uses, sometime in the future, but
464 for now the micro world is all 8's, and if you are making something now
465 use one, any one. Why argue if a Hornet could out run Stanley Steamer?
466 (It couldn't) Any modern car will do it, but this isn't why we buy
467 new cars: they have long lasting tires, good headlights, real heaters,
468 are comfortable, dependable, etc. 8 bit machines are not for speed, that
469 depends on what kind of speed you need: a number cruncher will be faster
470 at arithmatic, but how about something that has to look up a lot of data
471 in memory, and then do something with that; it isn't going to use the
472 same machine. For speed use special processors, like the 9511 math chip,
473 for disc acess use the successors to the 1771, etc. The 16's use newer
474 technology, and therefor may run faster, but other limits deny the 
475 same thing being done to say a z-80: this requires redesign of existing,
476 working processes and systems to make use of it, and isn't seen as worth
477 it. Apple used the 6502, as it was seen as state of the art in about 1977.
478 Altair ( remember them) used the 8080 because it was what was available.
479 The choice is no longer determined by hardware availability, but by
480 software, and this means compatability, which in 8 bit terms means CP/M,
481 and thei means 8080, 80o85, Z-80. None of these can touch the 16's for
482 speed, but who (besides nuts and cranks) cares, as long as your machine
483 has a 6502 in it, I suggest you use 6502 code, it will run this a lot
484 faster than it will run z-80 code.
485 .....................................................
486 Enough of this, I use obsolete equipment. For a good reason. I can
487 AFFORD it. It works. It is not blindingly fast, but I send off my
488 moon orbit calculation to Cray, and the word processing is fast enough
489 for my slow printer even when run on a 2 MHz 8080. (However, for
490 certain software reasons, I have replaced the 8080 in this with a z-80)
491 Now, more on obsolete stuff: Does anybody out there have some manuals
492 for Clcomp 142m disc drives? (8") I am trying to add a pair to my
493 system to get access to cp/m, and am having troubles.
494 in particular:what are the timing and polarity requirements of the
495 step and track 43 leads? Where can I get a replacement drive belt?
496 _______________________________Berney 231-8708_______1-9-83;19:33 pm___
497 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
498 Inertia
499 	That's what determines what is used in most computer
500 systems, as well as everything else.  Once a pile of software
501 is available for a particular processor, it becomes increasingly
502 difficult to change.
503 	Why is the Z-80 most common for general-purpose
504 computing?  Because the main operating system (CP/M) was designed
505 to be able to run on ARBITRARY sets of hardware, using an interface
506 software block called a BIOS.  This means that a manufacturer can
507 design the computer of his dreams, and as long as he can write the
508 appropriate BIOS, he is suddenly compatible with the rest of the
509 world.
510 	Contrary to this, 6502 software tends to be very machine-
511 specific.  Example, to run Apple software you essentially have to
512 have an Apple, or a machine specifically designed to be like one.
513 An Atari won't 'look like' an Apple for a long time, I assure you.
514 
515 	The result of this is that any innovation tends to be
516 hindered.  Add a new goodie?? Impossible! 
517 
518 	By the way, the reason Apple used the 6502 is that the
519 chips cost $20, and the 8080 (or z80) were too expensive.  This 
520 is the worst reason to use a processor: Now a Z80 is $2, and
521 cheap.  Because those numbskulls at Apple were too cheap to 
522 buy something else!  think of it!
523 ////////////////////////////
524 *******************************************************
525 NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE
526 O                                              C
527 T       P. C. S.  MEETING LOCATION CHANGE      I
528 I                                              T
529 C   The Portland Computer Society will not     O
530 E   be meeting at the Far West Federal any     N
531 .   more.                                      .
532 N                                              E
533 O     We will now be meeting at the P.C.C.     C
534 T   Sylvania campus at 12000 SW 49th.          I
535 I   The meeting time is 15 Jan 83 at 1:15 PM   T
536 C   Doors open at 1:00 PM.   Room ST-B14       O
537 E      Everyone is Welcome!                    N
538 .                                              .
539 N   P.S. The Feb meeting is the 19th, and the  E
540 O   March meeting is the 19th also.            C
541 T                                              I
542 I   The Sylvania campus is just off I-5        T
543 C   about 1/4 mile past the Mcdonalds.         O
544 E                                              N
545 .                                              .
546 NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE.NOTICE
547 If the Apple is so bad, how did Wozniak (sp??) get to be so rich he
548 could afford to blow a couple million bucks on a rock concert? He must
549 have been doind something right. In fact the Apple 2 has the rather
550 unique ditinction of being the longest lived micro. The machine dependence
551 of 6502 machines has nothing to do with their processor, only their design
552 methods. Most Z-80 machines need interchangeability because they left
553 something out. In any case new features will do them all in, like graphics
554 sound, and maybe even speech. Well done, all these will require more
555 computing power than the curent machines can offer, so we will see these
556 running on bigger cpu's with multimeg discs, though as we learn how, these
557 things are coming to involve less and less overhead and mew hardware does
558 it without as much from the cpu. But then what good is graphics in business
559 software? Pretty graphs are nice, but then you need to write the software
560 to create them, and that is expesive. The Apple, for instance had good
561 graphics way back when, but the use of them was a long time in coming,
562 because it took a long time to write the software, and an even longer
563 time to realize what ti could do.