textfiles/messages/BACKWATER/bw830105.txt

NUMBER OF LINES: 629 
1 44
2 *********************** REMOVED: 5 JAN 83 *****************************
3 Welcome to BWMS (BackWater Message System)  Mike Day System operator
4 ************************************************************
5 GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION PLACED ON
6                     THIS SYSTEM.
7 BWMS was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS is a privatly owned
8 and operated system which is currently open for use by the general public.
9 No restrictions are placed on the use of the system.
10 It is intended that the system be normally used for messages and
11 advertisments by the users. As the system is privatly owned, I retain the
12 right to remove any and all messages from the system which are offensive
13 to me. Additionally because of the limited size of the system, it will be
14 periodically purged of older messages. (only 629 lines of data can be saved)
15 The saved information will be cycled to drive 'B' while the information on
16 drive 'B' will be archived, and a fresh disk will be installed in drive 'A'.
17 To leave a message, type 'ENTER' and use ctrl/C or break to get out
18 of the enter mode. The message is automaticly stored.
19 If after entering the message you find you made a mistake,
20 use the replace command to replace the line.
21 To exit from the system, type 'OFF' then hang up.
22 Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system.
23 ========================================
24 
25 Well once again the guy with the Atari assails us with big boasts for his
26 'machine'. Oh like hell its got as much business software as the apple
27 and trs-80. I don't see companies like PeachTree making their complete
28 business packages availble for the atari. Many companies bypass the atari
29 completely, not wanting their name to be assosiated with a game machine
30 like the atari. Give us a break, it'll never be the equal of some of the
31 other micros. IBM will sell 5 times as many PCs in 2 years then atari has
32 sold in 4 years. If that doesn't tell you something about user
33 preference, then nothing does. And Atari sales are hardly what you make
34 them out to be. Warner's stock lost over 16 points in one day, after the
35 announcement of disapointing sales of atari equipment. Apple and Tandy stock
36 kept their values of course, since they are not solely dependent on home
37 entertainment, like atari is.
38 
39 HERE HERE!
40 
41 *****************************************************************
42 item:
43 A large depatment store put their catalog on a computer
44 and then put the computer where the customer could
45 use it to help with their christmas shopping.
46 As a added attention-getter they are using a robot
47 to advertise this new (and very practical) service.
48 The brand of computer? -- ATARI!!!!!!
49 ***************************************************************
50 question: what is "Phone Phreaking"?
51 ==============================================================
52 item:
53 Atari's popularity = Per Scientific American,
54 Atari is in a position to overtake the leaders
55 (Apple, radio shack,commodore, and IBM) in the personal
56 computer field (also Xerox and some japanese companies
57 are in a position to take over that lead)
58 ***********************************************************
59 THE ABOVE ARTICLE SAYS THAT IT IS IN THE "POSITION" TO TAKE OVER THE
60 LEAD...IT DOESN'T SAY IT IS GOING TO DO IT.  MAYBE IF WE HAVE A NUCLEAR WAR.
61 I WOULDN'T QUOTE THEM AS AN AUTHORIZED SOURCE EITHER.  THEY HAVE MADE
62 SOME FOOLISH MISTAKES IN THEIR PREDICTIONS LATELY.  ANYWAY, I DON'T
63 THINK THAT THE ATARI WAS MADE AS A BUSINESS MACHINE.!  BUT WHO KNOWS,
64 MAYBE THEY ARE INVENTED ONE RIGHT NOW?
65 I THINK YOU HAVE TO ADMIT THAT THE ATARI HAC A LONG JOURNEY TO OVERTAKD
66 APPLE AND IBM.  AS FAR AS RADIO SHACK AND THE PET, I PERSONALLY DON'T
67 CARE, AS I THINK THAT THE ATARI IS A BETTER MACHINE THERE.  I THINK
68 THAT THE APPLE OWNER COULD FIND MORE 'ITEMS' ON THE APPLE THEN ON
69 THE ATARI!  HOW CAN ONE WIN A LOSING BATTLE?
70                              RICK
71 **==**==**==**==**==**==**==**==12-15-82**==**==**==6:06 PM**==**==**
72 DAVID, IN ORDER TO GET INTO THAT SYSTEM, YOU NEED A PASSWORD...
73 THE BREAK INTO WE WERE REFERING TO WAS ONCE YOU ARE ALREADY IN!
74 THEN ATTEMPT TO GET PRIVLEDGED INFORMATION.  IT USUALLY IS PRETTY HARD
75 TO BREAC IN IF YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THE SYSTEM!  THANKS ANYWAYS
76 THOUGHT.  DO YOU WORK ON ANOTHER TIMESHARING SYSTEM?  DO ANYONE ELSE OUT
77 THERE WORK ON A LOCAL TIMESHARING SYSTEM?  IF SO, PLEASE WRITE.
78 BESIDE YOU TOM!
79    @                       `        `     RICK
80 **==**==**==**==**==**==**==**==**==**==**=<**<=**==**==**==**==**==**=
81 
82 Atari? HAH! 5th in a race of 5 is no position to be in, but who
83 is there, ATARI! have you played atari today? No! and I don't care to.
84 I'm sick of game machines trying to run with the big guys...Stay where you
85 are atari, in the den, in with the children playing space invaders and
86 other neato games.
87 
88 :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
89 YAAAAWWNNNNN........  FOR SOME REASON, I HAVE THIS OVERWELMING URGE
90 IN REGARD TO THE PREVIOUS ARGUMENTS TO THE EFFECT OF WHO CARES.
91 ATAI HAS LOTS OF POTENTIAL. IT WILL MOST CERTAINLY GET USED IN 
92 BUSINESS APPLICATIONS, BUT NOT THAT MUCH, IT DOES HAVE THE POTENTIAL
93 OF GENERATING SOME EXCITING NEW BUSINESS USES THAT THE OTHERS CAN'T
94 DO, NOT BECAUSE OF ITS CAPABILITY, BUT RATHER ITS PRICE (IT IS
95 ESENTIALLY A THROW AWAY COMPUTER FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT.)
96 ON THE OTHER SIDE I DOUBT THAT THE IBM , TRS80, ECT. WILL EVER MAKE
97 IT BIG IN THE GAME WORLD. THESE MACHINES ARE NOT COMPETING!! THEY
98 SERVE TWO ENTIRLY DIFFERENT OUTLOOKS ON COMPUTERS. THAT DOES NOT MEAN
99 HOWEVER THAT YOU WON'T FIND PAYROLL ON AN ATARI. HECK, I USE TO
100 SELL PAYROLL FOR A PROGRAMABLE CALCULATOR!! THE PROBLEM HERE IS
101 THAT YOU SEEM TO FEEL THAT ANYTHING THAT IS NOT AT LEAST 1MEG IN 
102 CODE SIZE IS NOT A VALID SOFTWARE PROGRAM. I HAVE TO DISAGREE WITH
103 YOU. ANYTHING THAT GETS THE JOB DONE FOR YOU IN A WAY YOU CAN HANDLE
104 IS A VALID PROGRAM. IN FACT, OF ALL THE PROGRAMS THAT WORK BEST AS
105 'THROW AWAY CODE' PAYROLL IS ONE. MAYBE TEK HAS TO HAVE MASSIVE
106 PAYROLL PROGRAMS TO KEEP TRACK OF THE MANGLED MESS OF RED TAPE
107 THAT THE GOV LOVES TO INFLICT ON US POOR PEOPLE, BUT THE TYPICAL
108 MOM AND POP STORE DOWN THE STREET THAT MAKES UP 70% OF AMERICAN
109 BUSINESS HARDLY NEEDS IT, ALL THEY WANT IS SOMETHING THAT WILL 
110 DO ALL THE GRUNT WORK FOR THIER 15 OR SO EMPLOYEES. IN FACT THIS
111 IS WHERE THROW AWAY CODE IS THE GREATEST FOR PROGRAMERS, BECAUSE
112 INSTEAD OF TRYING TO WRITE ONE MONSTER OF A PACKAGE TO HANDLE
113 EVERY POSSIBLE PAYROLL PROBLEM THAT COMES ALONG. YOU CAN WRITE
114 A SHORT ONE THAT TAKES CARE OF THEIR NEEDS TODAY, AND WHEN THE
115 OL' GOV' CHANGES THINGS YOU GET TO MAKE SOME MONEY TO COME IN
116 AND UPDATE THE THING.. OR BETTER YET HAVE A SERVICE CONTRACT
117 AND MAKE THE MONEY IF THEY CHANGE IT OR NOT. 
118 I REALLY DON'T SEE THE NEED TO BUY AN IBM TO USE IT AS
119 AN OVERGROWN CALCULATOR.
120 *** CISTOP MIKEY A RANTEN AN A RAVEN AGAIN *** 15 DEC 82 *******
121 
122 AHA! MIKEY IS MISTAKEN AGAIN! TO SAY THE TRS80 DOES NOT HAVE ARCADE GAMES
123 IS TO SAY ATARI DOES NOT HAVE ARCADE GAMES. THE GRAPHICS ARE LOW RES, BUT
124 WHAT AN IMAGINATIVE PROGRAMMER CAN DO WITH THEM IS AMAZING. THE DIFFERENCE
125 IS THAT ALONG WITH HUNDREDS OF ARCADE GAMES(AND THOUSANDS OF GAMES ALL
126 TOGETHER), THOUGHTFUL COMPANIES HAVE SEEN THAT THIS COMPUTER IS ALSO A
127 VERY CAPABLE BUSINESS MACHINE. THE IBM PC IS MAINLY CONSIDERED A VERY
128 POWERFUL BUSINESS MACHINE, AND THIS IS THE MARKET IBM IS AIMING AT.
129 OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A MARKET FOR A MACHINE OF THIS TYPE, CONSIDERING THE
130 NUMBER THAT HAVE BEEN SOLD IN THE FIRST YEAR OF PRODUCTION. BUT HERE TOO THE
131 IBM IS HAVING GAMES WRITTEN FOR IT. MANY ARE APPLE REWRITES, BUT MANY
132 ARE COMPLETELY NEW, TAKING ADVANTAGE OF THE IBM'S SPECIAL GRAPHICS, AND
133 IT 600 BY 400 RESOLUTION, FAR ABOVE BOTH ATARI AND APPLE.
134 BUT NO MATTER WHAT, THE COMPUTER FIELD IS EXCITING TO OBSERVE!
135 
136 ................................................................
137 Who says TRS-80 doesn't have hi-res? There isn't a standard yet,
138 but there are a number of add-on boards that supply better
139 resolution than Apple. I don't know if this will become a 
140 "standard" or not, but Radio Shack has a hi-res board for the 
141 Model II/16 and next month (if it's on schedule) there will be a
142 COMPATIBLE (same format, commands, etc) board for the Model III.
143 This board has a mere 640x240 monchrome, but then it uses the 
144 built-in monitor! I expect to see some interesting(?!) games for
145 hi-res TRS-80s (even if I have to write them myself!). One
146 strange thing about this board it has its own memory (nice!)
147 and it allows you to use off screen coordinates in the graphics
148 commands. (ie center a 5" circle on a point 4" past the edge of
149 the screen). Do any other microcomputer graphics packages allow
150 this? I know of several that will cause BIZARRE errors if you
151 try!
152 ................................................................
153 Indeed. Finally Radio Shack comes out with Hires B/W graphoics
154 boards! They have their own memory, and their own commands to
155 control the board with. Very fast, very powerful, and very
156 interesting to new software developers. Along with several
157 B/W mods besides the one from RS, devices like the Electric
158 Crayon give the formerly B/W trs80 color!!! The LNW computer
159 is totally trs-80 compatible, comes with 64k CPM, 32K extra
160 RAM with bank selecting, 80X24 and 16X64 screen size, and
161 hires color and B/W graphics. 480X192 in either B/W and
162 8 colors. The graphics ram is totally separate from user
163 ram, so no matter what graphics mode you are in, there
164 is no loss of user ram. 8", 5.25" and hard disks can be
165 hooked up with no modification, just plug in and go.
166 It also operates at 1.7 mhz, 4 mhz, and with one jumper,
167 5.3 mhz!!! All in all, a very powerful computer!
168 
169 ***************************************************************
170 Atari people have made the statement that Atari knows
171 Games, and that they intend to confine themselves to games.
172 Business software for the Atari will hve to come from
173 third party sources -- and IT WILL.
174 Mostly for the reasons cited by Cisop Mikey.
175 Atari is, however, attempting to crack the educational
176 market -- so watch out Apple!
177 In any case, the Atari is becoming more and more popular
178 While EVERY forcast that I have read indicates
179 a smaller share of the market for Apple and Radio Shack.
180 *********************************************************
181 Doeth anyone in these chambers, know of a lost companion of
182 mine, his name is Wansor.  We had to part while being confronted
183 by a wizard of evil nature.  We swore to meet here in the
184 township of BWMS, on the 16th of the twelth month.  If any
185 of you dear friends know of his whare abouts, could you help
186 me to locate him (he owes me ten bucks).
187 
188 			Benis, the great warrior
189 			****** *** ***** *******
190 ARGHHHHH. YOU MISS THE POINT. I DID NOT SAY THAT TRS80 DOES NOT
191 HAVE GAMES ECT. EVEN AN IBM370 HAS GAMES! IT IS AN INEVITABLE CONSIQUENCE
192 OF THE EXISTANCE OF A COMPUTER. THE POINT IS WHERE THE MAJOR PORTION
193 OF THE COMPUTER'S SALES AND USE WILL BE APPLIED. SOME MACHINES WILL
194 INDEED SEE GAMES FOR THEM THE TRS80 BEEN ONE OF THE MORE POPULAR ONES
195 WITH THE APPLE RIGHT IN THERE WITH IT. THERE ARE MANY GAMES FOR CPM
196 BASED MACHINES, BUT MOST OF THE ACTUAL COMPUTING THEY DO IS FOR
197 OTHER THEN GAMES. WITH THE TRS80 AND APPLES THEY TEND TO SHARE THE
198 USAGE A LITTLE MORE, THIS IS TO SOME EXTENT DUE TO THE ABILITY OF THE
199 COMPUTER TO HANDLE THE GAMING TO SOME EXTENT. THE ATARI AND VIC ON THE
200 OTHER HAND WERE DESIGNED FROM THE START TO BE GAMING COMPUTERS. AN
201 IMPORTANT ASPECT OF THIS IS COST.  AS I SAID BEFOR, YOU DON'T GAIN
202 ANYTHING USING A SLEDGE HAMMER TO CRACK NUTS WITH EXCEPT POSSIBLY 
203 CRACKED FINGERS. THE GAMES MACHINES ARE CHEAP BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO BE
204 BUT BY THAT VERY NATURE, IT OPENS THE FIELD TO PEOPLE WHO WOULD NOT
205 CONSIDER EVEN BUYING A COMPUTER OTHERWISE. THIS MEANS THINGS OTHER THEN 
206 GAMES ARE SOON TO FOLLOW. IF YOU ALREADY HAVE A COMPUTER AND YOU CAN
207 BUY SOME SOFTWARE FOR IT FOR SAY $20 OR $25 TO DO PAYROLL THAT SAVES
208 YOU 15 MINUTES OF GRUNT WORK (CACULATING ALL THE WEIRD TAX AND DEDUCTION
209 JUNK) IT WOULD SEEM TO BE A WORTH WHILE PURCHASE. BUT TO SPEND $2000 TO
210 $4000 TO DO THE SAME THING IS A BIT ON THE OVERKILL SIDE. SURE YOU CAN
211 THINK OF ALL THE NIFTY THINGS TO DO WITH IT, BUT THE GUY (OR GAL) WHO
212 BOUGHT IT TO PLAY GAMES COULD CARE LESS.) THE ADDED FUNCTIONALITY IS
213 JUST A CONVENEINCE, NOT A MUST! THE ATRAI AND VIC WILL NOT TAKE OVER
214 THE BIGGIES IN THE BUSINESS MARKET, BUT THEY WILL CERTAINLY CARVE OUT
215 THEIR NITCH IN IT.
216 *** QUOTH THE CISTOP MIKEY YET EVEN MORE *** 16 DEC 82 *************
217 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
218 Well, finally a little sense comes out of the morass of ignorant,
219 opinionated bullshit!  People, at least red-blooded, macho, good-ol'-USA
220 people, are no different about computers than anything else material.
221 It's the THING that counts!  It matters not whether it's a fast car,
222 a spiffy pool cue, a do-it-all food processor, or a wham-bam microcomputer;
223 most people just admire their THING and denigrate everyone else's THING.
224 So few of us ever USE our THINGs.
225  
226 How many folks do you know with hundreds of dollars worth of 35mm SLR
227 equipment who take NO good pictures -- or NO PICTURES AT ALL!
228  
229 Most microcomputers available today, from the Sinclair on up, have power to
230 spare for the applications most of us will really USE.  And of course, chief
231 on that list is GAMES.  It was damn few years ago that I programmed a 12-bit
232 2K ( and that was in two pages! ) machine to run experiments in a med school
233 lab, and I would have given plenty for a VIC-20 to ease my burdens.
234  
235 We Americans are techno-freaks, and we need the biggest, best, fastest,
236 etc. ad nauseum of everything, including microcomputers to make us happy.
237 However, we probably get less from our expensive toys than we do from our
238 brains, and THAT efficiency might be conservatively rated at <10%.
239  
240 Ah, well, all this babble is kinda fun to read, anyway.  How about some of
241 you hot-shots telling us what you're DOING with your snazzy machines, and
242 sharing it, too.
243 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
244 HOWDY! MY NAME IS PAT - I EDIT THE NEWSLETTER FOR THE PORTLAND ATARI CLUB. 
245 INTERESTING COMMENTS RE THE ATARI - ALL TRUE, NONE WITH ANY PERSPECTIVE!
246 WE MEET THE FIRST MONDAY OF THE MONTH AT THE BPA AUDITORIUM.  CALL ME FOR
247 DETAILS 246-3724.
248 WE HAVE NO AXE TO GRIND.  WE DO NOT KNOWCK THE OTHER'S PRIDE AND JOY.
249 WE'RE JUST EXCITED ABOUT OUR ADVENTURE MACHINE!  COME SEE US IF YOU'RE
250 EXCITED, CURIOUS, OPEN MINDED, INVOLVED OR JUST WANT TO MAKE A POINT.
251 CU -- PAT
252 HOWDY, PAT;
253      GLAD TO SEE YOU IN THERE.  BUT I FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT YOU LET
254 THIS CROWD GET BY WITH SO LITTLE FLACK.
255      ATARIS ARE A TRULY NEAT MACHINE, AND SHOULD NOT BE COMPARED TO $5000 
256 IBMs, OR $17,000 ALPHA MICROS.
257      I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU GOOD FOLKS ON THIS NET TRY TO COMPARE 
258 PEACHES AND ICECREAM.  THEY DAMN SURE GO TOGETHER, AND YET ARE NOT AT ALL 
259 ALIKE.
260 ***** PAC MEMBER            JIM *****
261 EXIT
262 QUIT
263 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$,$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
264 Yes. Well. Here's an idea: why don't we all start converting all the old
265 Polish jokes to Atari jokes or Osborne jokes or Northstar jokes or. . .
266 'twould at least help pass the time. MORE HUMOR, LESS HYSTERIA!!!
267 I, for one, do not feel threatened by Atari;I talk to people who own them; and I
268 
269 have just been naild by the phoneco. wasn't saying much anyhoo 'cept we
270 can all share the world of computing quite nice with each other and
271 forget this brand loyalty nonsense.    --shapiro
272 Boring days, and better whatever!  Look at it storm.  Well the weather out-
273 side is stormy, and the computer is so delightful...whatever!  Let it snow!
274 **++**++**++
275 time flies like the wind....   but fruit flies like banannas!!!!!!
276 
277 the sordfish knows......
278 
279 ********************************************************************
280 How 'bout an old Atari trick for you TRS80's with
281 the Hi-Res?
282 It's called Television Artifacts.
283 With the Hi-Res mentioned, you can plot to individual
284 color-dots on a color TV screen, your B&W picture
285 becomes filled with LOTS & LOTS of colors and the
286 effect is predictable (to a degree) and reproducable.
287 (the predictability: the exact color will depend on the
288 adjustment of the TV, but the appox color will
289 be as desired and reproducable).
290 *********************************************************************
291 LIFE IS A SERIES OF EVENTS....SOME GOOD SOME NOT SO GOOD.
292 THE MICE RULE THE WORLD AND WE ARE UNAWARE OF THE FACT.
293 WHY IS IT THAT EVERY ONE SEEMS TO BE SO PREOCCUPIED WITH
294 THINGS THAT REALLY DO NOT MATTER?  
295 WHO KNOWS?
296 I DONO NOT KNOW!
297 ................................................................
298 regarding TRS-80 hi-res:
299 1) you can get "artifacts" on the Color Computer, but not on any
300 of the others. Why? Because they all use BUILT-IN monochrome
301 monitors. (No video output jacks!)
302 2) As to the Electric Crayon, I own one and hardly use it. Why,
303 because it has all the BAD features of Applesoft graphics and
304 none of the good ones. It can make wonderfully detailed pictures
305 quickly if you use the "block transfer mode", Unfortunately,
306 they don't give a memory map so this is DAMN difficult to use!
307 3) Yes, the LNW has great graphics, but last I heard the
308 language (command) support was late and not that good. 
309 ..........................................................
310   if you want graphics, get an Atari. If you want business
311 software,get a business machine. If Your business stuff runs
312 on an atari, use it. If you wnat to buy $30 business software,
313 thats's your business, but don't be surprised when it doesn't
314 do what you wanted, and only you can fix it, because for that
315 price you don't get software. Throw away software is best 
316 written by the user, it probably won't work for anyone except
317 the writer anyuway. The throwaway machines are used for "real"
318 (whatever that means) work, but in the real world it often costs
319 less to buy the real thing. In business, that is the determening
320 factor:cost. Bu the way, wht good are graphics in an accounting
321 package anuyway? 
322 ................................B.A.D...............................
323 As I sit in front of my CRT, I have on my lap a powerful computing
324 machine.  It does have a limited amount of memory, which is fairly 
325 slow and somewhat prone to errors.  On many occasions, this machine
326 refuses to obey even the simplest commands.  It operates without
327 batteries or AC power.  I got it free, but it did require a few
328 repairs and some minor maintenance when it arrived.  Its I/O
329 devices are both crude and sophisticated.  It has no output channel
330 capable of ASCII or EBCDIC.  It's input channel is limited to
331 voice response... no keyboard or modem.  There is no provision
332 for expansion (since it has been modified) but the original
333 configuration was capable of potentially unlimited expansion
334 (which occurs in a somewhat uncontrolled fashion, hence the mods).
335   It's mathematical capabilities are virtually zero, so forget
336 number crunching or even payroll.  I looks forward to my arrival
337 home from work (which is more than I can say for my S-100 box).
338 It has no noisy ventilation fans, but can create audible alarms
339 when its source of energy runs low.
340   If you want one, don't go to Computerland, just try the
341 local Humane Society.  This is a feline, but canine models
342 fit some persons needs better.  (Please don't argue which is 
343 better for graphics, business, scientific, or comunications
344 purposes... it's a matter of personal preference!)
345 meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow meow
346 woof woof woof woof woof woof woof woof woof woof woof woof woof woof
347 -------------------------------------------------------------------
348 
349 THERE IS ONE COMPUTER THAT NOONE HAS MENTIONED, THE COMMODORE 64.
350 THIS MAY BEAT THEM ALL!  IT HAS GREAT GRAPHICS AND A VERY SOPHIST-
351 ICATED S.I.D. (SOUND INTERFACE DEVICE). WHAT'S MORE, IT IS LESS
352 THAN $600. AND WITH A SPECIAL CARD, IT CAN INTERFACE TO A Z-80
353 AND RUN CP/M! (WE'RE ALL AWARE OF THE VAST AMOUNT OF SOFTWARE FOR
354 CP/M) THE CAPABILITIES ON THIS COMPUTER ARE, TO MY KNOWLEDGE, ARE
355 UNMATCHED BY ANY COMPUTER LESS THAN $1500.00!!!
356 
357 *********************** THE ETERNAL SYSM, DAVID GREENMAN *******
358 
359 
360 ================================================================
361 ================================================================
362 DOES ANYONE KNOW OF A BULLETIN BOARD SYSTEM WHERE PROGRAMS ARE S
363 SHARED??
364 THANKS
365 ================================================================
366 To the person who said the graphic language on the LNW is late in coming,
367 that is a rather strange thing to say. Since I am sitting here at my
368 LNW typing this message, and to my lower left is a 200 page manual on
369 LNW graphics. Please don't state "facts" when they aren't! I have a
370 very powerful, very quick, and really easy to use graphics system at my
371 hands. I hate it when people say something about something, and are totally
372 wrong! Research your comments before putting down something, or better
373 yet, don't put it down at all. The LNW is capable to drive 3 screens
374 at once, RGB, TV, and composite video. This is great for someone who wants
375 to demonstrate something to a room of people, and wants to see another
376 screen him/her self. Every computer has a place, lets not forget where
377 that place is.
378 
379 TO PERSON ASKING ABOUT SYSTEMS FOR PROGRAM XFER. IF YOU ARE RUNNING
380 CPM, THE SYSTEM AT 641-RCPM HAS LOTS AND LOTS OF PROGRAMS YOU CAN GET.
381 ************************************************************
382 Just a thought, what computers are most kids playing with today?
383 (in the home.) Number one is Atari then VIC-20 then TI.
384 Next point if someone buys a Chevy, whats the most probable make
385 of car they will buy next time around. If a child goes to Catholic
386 school, what's the most probable Church they will go to as an adult?
387 If their parents are Democrats, what is the most likely political
388 party they will choose? 
389 Loyalty is a very strong bond that cannot be easily dismissed.
390 If the company can survive over the years, and do not overly disappoint
391 it customers, and provide products that suits it customers current
392 needs and wants, it can build an unshakable customer base that no other
393 company can touch even if they do have a better product.
394 IBM is not number one because they have the best product.
395 Just a thought to consider when saying that Atari or Commador will
396 never make it.
397 **** CISTOP MIKEY THINKING AGAIN (OUCH!) *** 18 DEC 82 *****************
398 THIS IS A TRUELY STRANGE MESSAGE SERVICE.  THIS IS MY FIRST TIME USING A MODEM.
399 I HAVE BEEN HAVING A LOT OF PROBLEMS WITH SUDDEN DISCONNECTS, ESPECIALLY ON
400 THE RCPM IN BEAVERVILLE. DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW A GENERIC REASON FOR THAT
401  KIND OF PROBLEM...SOME IDEAS FOR FIXING SAME?
402 
403 aTARI may be first, but Vic 20 is not second. It may be in sales, but
404 certainly not in total number sold. Anyway, you forgot the TRS-80 color
405 computer. What other of those lower end computers can run operating
406 systems like FLEX and OS-9? None!!!
407 
408 //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
409 Name some higher end computers that can run FLEX or OS-9, and some users
410 that would want to.....                       the Phantom Glitch.
411 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\12/19/82\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
412 To the person looking for software to share:
413  
414 CompuServe has several SIG's (Special Interest Groups) which have loads
415 of downloadable software.  Well worth the $5.00/hr. connect charges, at
416 least until you've downloaded whatever you want.
417 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
418 ................................................................
419 To the LNW owner I offended:
420 	Sorry, but it's difficult to check things out at 3 am
421 (especially with regard to a machine that I don't own). I was
422 merely repeating some comments I had heard from LNW owners on
423 other BBSs. I may have accepted this info somewhat uncritically
424 due to the fact that most of the graphics options I have seen/
425 heard of for TRS-80s and related systems suffer from abysmal
426 software & language support. (see my comments on the Electric
427 Crayon!)
428 
429 apology accepted. When the LNW first came out a couple of yyears
430 ago, it didn't have much software to support its great graphics.
431 But the story is quite a bit different now. Those other LNW
432 owners are not aware what their machine is capable of, too
433 bad for them!
434 
435 TO:P.G.  FM:C.M.  RE:I AGREE (FLEX/OS9)
436 In relation to most phone problems: the commomest problem 
437 with acoustic coupled modems is the carbon button mike
438 in the phone, and this problem can usually be cured with
439 either a direct connect modem, or a Novation super-mic.
440 If you have trouble with certain systems (it seems this one
441 is one of the worst for this) it may be the fault of the
442 cables between telephone offices. Try to call back and get 
443 a good line. If this works, call repair service at the
444 number given in the phone book, and tell them you are having
445 trouble. Of course it helps to know what kind of trouble you
446 are having, so.. listen to the signal. If you hear ANYTHING
447 other than the clear tone from your (and the other end's)
448 modem, you have a "noisy line". listen especially for 
449 clicks. The level should be the same, or nearly so, on
450 any call, if it isn't tell repair service about it. 
451 The only part in the phone that should affect your modem
452 is the mike (OK, to the phone man it's a transmitter), 
453 unless it is really busted. Call somebody with a telephone
454 number with the same first 3 digits as the system you are
455 having trouble with, and listen to the line. You shouldn't
456 hear anything besides what the other person says, or
457 have him cover his mike so you can listen. Of course to make
458 all this interesting, most calls between offices now are 
459 over "T-carrier" systems, and these send the signals going
460 one way over a different channel than the stuff going the
461 other way, so it is rather hard to tell what the other end
462 is getting. If you can talk to some systems, you might
463 think this means your system is OK, but if you are slightly
464 off on something, you will be a lot more susceptible to
465 any line probs, like weak sigs or noise. But if you are
466 fairly sure the trouble is the phone line, do call repair
467 and complain. If we don't get any complaints, we must assume
468 everything is perfect, and have satisfied customers.
469 ......................B.A.D.......(with Ma Bell)...........
470 
471 To Cistop Mike RE Flex/OS-9
472 
473 Compared to other operating systems for the 6800, these
474 os's are the tops! You sir, are a big fat jerk!
475 
476 ********
477 To the ? who left the previous message:
478    You sir are wrong on three counts about Cistop Mike.
479 1) He is not big.
480 2) He is not fat.
481 3) He is not a jerk.
482    Your rudness smakes you a B.F.J. however.
483 *********  Setting the record straight ****************
484 
485 To CISTOP Mike:
486 If you will recall, I mentioned months ago that
487 I had sold an article/program to COMPUTE! -
488 Well, it finally sees print: Jan '83 (just got
489 my copy).  They shore did cut it though!
490 Its a nifty little program and one that I would
491 like to see some of these other computers try (I 
492 don't think they'll get far.)
493 *************************************************************
494 Would any of you hackers out there have (or have access to)
495 source code for Space War. I would prefer it in a high level
496 language, but I'll take assembler source if I have to. I know
497 it used to be popular on a lot of mainframes about 10 years ago
498 & I've seen that arcade version. 
499 	If you can help leave a msg here or on CBBS
500 		Leonard Erickson
501 ................................................................
502 ?
503 
504 HELLO: I'M JOE ENGEL AND I'M THE PRESIDE-
505 DENT OF THE PORTLAND ATARI CLUB.
506 
507 THIS IS MY FIRST EXPERIENCE WITH THIS 
508 SYSTEM AND SO MY MESSAGE MAY NOT BE 
509 AS CLEAR AS I WOULD WISH...    AS  I SIT
510 HERE AND WATCH THE OPEN MESSAGES PASS BY
511 THE SCREEN I AM AMAZED AT THE NUMBER OF 
512 REFERNCES TO "ATARI".
513 
514 THE ATARI MACHINE IS ABSOLUTELY AMAZINGING
515 IN ITS ABILITIES AND CLEARLY HOLDS ITS
516 OWN AND YET WE KNOW THAT AT"ATARI" HAS
517 CHOSEN A DIFFERENT PATH. WHILE WE MAY NOT AGREE TO THE PATH, NO ONE CAN
518 DISPUTE THE POWER OF THE 'TRUE COMPUTER'
519 WITHIN THE "ATARI".
520 
521 WE WELCOME ANYONE TO COME AND EXPERIENCE
522 THE AMAZING TRUTH ABOUT THIS COMPUTER. 
523 OUR MONTHLY MEETINGGS SOMETIMES SUPRISE
524 EVEN US.   EVERYONE IS WELCOME!!!
525 
526 YOU SKEPTIKS, YOU DOUBTERS, COME AND SEE
527 THE POWER, THE COMPUTING POWER OF THE 
528 "ATARI"  EVEN A"ATARI" DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THEY'VE GOT ...
529 **==**==**==**==**==
530 Atari, Atari!  HOGWASH!  It isn't that great!  It lacks in being
531 great in several areas...  I agree it is well rounded, but it
532 sure is not "GREAT."  IF you are looking for a great computer,
533 you should look for the future...  I think every computer
534 on that market missed a stroke.  Some do come closer then 
535 others...(ie-Apple, IBM, and a few select others..)
536                                      =Rick=
537 **==**==**==**==**==**
538 
539 Atari-  A Tarnished Aging Relic for Imbosoles!!
540 *********************************************************
541 Atari - a mystery for imbeciles to denegrate!
542 **************************************************************
543 Well now, I see that all the creeps are out it must be
544 Christmas?  Who gives a rats ass which computer you all got!
545 Who cares what it can or cannot do.  They are just toys
546 in the hands of small minded people.  If everyone was so
547 high and mighty.....they would not call any of these local
548 systems and get involved...look. even I lowered myself..
549 ****************************************************************
550 
551 Speaking of BB>B.Fg of the B.F.J. contest who really is the best
552 canidate for that tiaward winning name  BBB.F.J. of the
553 year?
554   **********************************************
555   
556  
557  
558        Rules to pick the BBBB.F.J. OF THE YEAR
559  
560   1. YOU CANNOT  nominate yourself.
561 ON2. ONLY ONE NOMINATION PER INDIVIDUAL
562   3. YIF SELEECTED you cannot refuse to serve for the year.
563   4. BB.F.J.  nominees must bbe sobber or coherient 20% of the 
564      time.
565   5. B.F.J.  Nnominees maybbbbbe male or female and know the
566      difference
567   6. All ties, will bbe broken by a trip to the scales.
568   7. Eg 
569  
570 ***************************************************************
571  One probblbbllem is that how do we weigh ones ego?
572 ****************************************************************
573 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
574 Ah, time for a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to the CISTOP MIKEY!
575 I don't care what others may say, but as for me . . .
576          1) It's relatively easy to get on this system.
577          2) It's almost never down.
578          3) I have NO trouble with the telephone, and I'm served by
579             -- are you ready for this? -- the Beaver Creek Cooperative
580             Telephone Company!
581          4) There's almost always something interesting to read.
582 THANK YOU!
583 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
584 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
585 TO: CISTOP MIKEY
586 FM: ADAM TRENT
587 SJ: LINKASM
588 DT: 12/22/82
589 Hi Mike,
590    Still enjoying AMODEM very much--thanks again.  I recently
591 got hold of LINKASM.DOC and notice that LINKASM also makes
592 symbol files.  Apparently ones that SID can use.  Do you know
593 if this is indeed so?  Have you used SID with LINKASM?  If
594 this combination really works I'll by SID at the next group
595 purchase of the CPMUG.  Also, I recently picked up a newer
596 version of LINKASM called LASM--not much different, except
597 it keeps you posted on console of each source module as it's
598 being assembled.  
599 $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
600 
601 I agree:
602 Three cheers for Backwater Message System
603 and CISTOP Mikey!!
604 .,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
605 To Joe Engel:
606 I hope you haven't been put off to much by the references to your
607 favorite toy Atari. The gist of the messages has not been to put
608 down one particular machine, but rather refers to those who have
609 found out how great their own machine is, and therefore have
610 concluded it is the greatest. BUT without kowing what else exists,
611 they seem to have no perspective. Every computer, from the toy or
612 video game machine has more capability than is often used, but
613 this does not make it good for evey use, or as the arguementers
614 claim the best for every use. I hope you enjoy your Atari as much
615 as some enjoy putting it down.
616 -------------------------------B.A.D.------------------------
617 TO B.A.D.
618 FROM PAT WARNSHUIS, PORTLAND ATARI CLUB
619 Two good messages, BAD.  I really enjoy the Atari from a hacker's
620 perspective.  I built a SWTP 6800 and converted it to a 6809 with FLEX.  A
621 truly beautiful system!  What a natural for a FORTH machine.  Parting with
622 it was like selling a child.  Concurrently I build an Altair 8800 and used 
623 it for the "heavy" stuff.  As you suggested, I was constantly amazed at how
624 it exceeded my expectations.  But the work on it was drudgery (sp?).  We
625 truly are on a beautimous adventure, one and all with our machines.  You
626 bet LNW and Commodore et al are putting pressure on Atari.  We're all going
627 to win in this one.  (My feathers are ruffled by two assertions: the Atari 
628 is just a game machine.  It's not -- it's a personal computer.  2nd: the 
629