textfiles/messages/ALANWESTON/1991/CIS09_10.txt

#: 12126 S7/Telecommunications
    08-Sep-91  13:17:22
Sb: #12124-sterm 1.5
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul,

Why not just use the values in the table provided for Level II and manually
patch ACIAPAK with  dEd. PAKMOD.SRC was just a modpatch source file that
automated the process and applied the patches to what was in memory.

Alternately, you could create your own .src file.

Steve

#: 12127 S7/Telecommunications
    08-Sep-91  13:20:59
Sb: #12124-#sterm 1.5
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

For a quicky tutorial on the Level II utility called modpatch, see MODPAT.TXT
in LIB 10.

Modpatch supports both .src files as well as an interactive mode.

Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 12145 S7/Telecommunications
    09-Sep-91  07:39:43
Sb: #12127-sterm 1.5
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Thanks for the tip. I tried modpatch again on a gshell patch to boot MV into an
80 column window and this time I seem to be getting the hang of it since it
worked.  Now I still have to go back and OS9Gen a disk here & there.  -ph-

#: 12128 S7/Telecommunications
    08-Sep-91  13:22:23
Sb: #12115-#sterm 1.5
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul, is thhe problem with deldir _after_ you've patched gshell with gshell2? I
think that was one of the buglets corrected via that file.


Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 12135 S7/Telecommunications
    08-Sep-91  19:48:35
Sb: #12128-#sterm 1.5
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

I had only half completed the gshell2 patch. Seems I re-instated the old scf
file instead of the new one.

IDENTs of each new mod would be helpful in crosschecking especially if more
than one patch is made to a given module, over a period of time.

Now, after making the changes for MV, say with SCF & CC3IO, then these changes
should be applied to the working OS9 boot disk, too, or are they applicable
only when used in MV  (meaning the modules common to both,   not for windint,
for example)?

Yes, I've put /t2 into the env.file, but hadn't thought of aciapak, the absence
of which caused sterm not to load. Once loaded manually, sterm did load into MV
ok.     -ph- 

There is 1 Reply.

#: 12136 S7/Telecommunications
    08-Sep-91  21:17:23
Sb: #12135-#sterm 1.5
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul,

I agree .... things get pretty hairy at this level of patching ... but the
results are well wrth the efforts. Stock MV is pretty much worthless. Kent and
others did a bang up job on getting it to where it is today.

The patches to SCF and cc3io are not specific only to MV. They should be
treated as required updates to the stock modules.

I'd offer my idents to help ... but I'm so patched, I doubt they'd be of much
help.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 12139 S7/Telecommunications
    08-Sep-91  22:32:11
Sb: #12136-#sterm 1.5
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Sheesh, if I read you right then at any given point in time no 2 users will
have the same upgrade of MV;  all their crc's just ain't gonna match nohow
(without proceding from square one along a defined set of upgrade steps)
depending on which patches were applied and when.  -ph-

There is 1 Reply.

#: 12146 S7/Telecommunications
    09-Sep-91  08:13:45
Sb: #12139-#sterm 1.5
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Not necessarily so, Paul. The average user will be in sync with other average
users as far as patch levels go. In my case, I'm constantly trying things ....
patching this, pulling that. If they work well, they stay, if not ....


Steve

There is 1 Reply.

#: 12149 S7/Telecommunications
    09-Sep-91  16:32:49
Sb: #12146-#sterm 1.5
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Steve Wegert 76703,4255 (X)

Well, I was referring to being aware as to what all the available patches are
after one decides to jump into the fray well after the 'olde-timres' have been
at it since square one.    -ph-

There are 2 Replies.

#: 12160 S7/Telecommunications
    10-Sep-91  07:51:15
Sb: #12149-sterm 1.5
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul,

I see your point.

Why not start the file yourself. You're at the begining of a patching project.
Just jot down your successes, file names and where you found 'em. We'll be
happy to help in any way we can.

Steve

#: 12161 S7/Telecommunications
    10-Sep-91  08:00:51
Sb: #12149-sterm 1.5
Fm: Steve Wegert 76703,4255
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Paul,

As a starting point in your search for all those patches, take a look at Kev's
BESTOF file as well as BUGS.TXT and BUGS2.TXT file. All found in LIB 10.

Steve

#: 12129 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    08-Sep-91  13:29:32
Sb: #12125-mod help
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X)

Do you have a copy of the current issue of The Rainbow?  They tell you in
there; check the OS-9 q&a column.  But what you need to do is check the offset
for each module within the os9boot file.  The first block contains every module
with offsets from $0000 through $1FFF, the second block is from $2000 through
$3FFF, etc.  This may or may not be important on your CoCo. For now, don't try
to fit to blocks and see if that's OK.  If not, we can resequence later.  Do
you have ezgen 1.09?  That's what I have, and I want to be sure our programs
will agree.  Instead of the ident -s, try using ezgen -d -m -o os9boot.  Wait a
long time for the disk drive to finish. Then type ?[enter].  That will give you
a listing of your modules and their offsets in the os9boot file.  Use tmode
pause beforehand, or you'll have to be quick on the ctrl-w.  Take down that
information.  Have you yet downloaded os9p3 and extracted it?  You will need to
know where to put it before you can go further.  If you know where to put it,
its position will become obvious once you get that listing.  Then type q[enter]
to quit.  The -o will cause ezgen to leave your present file alone and not
change it (for now). The listing may help, so do send me a copy of what you get
from ezgen.  How many disk drives do you have?  To actually add os9p3 via
ezgen, it will make a difference in the required technique.

#: 12130 S1/General Interest
    08-Sep-91  14:42:22
Sb: CoCo forum
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: All

Has everyone checked out the new games in the CoCo forum?

There's a version of hangman with interesting graphics.

There's also one called SPELLDOWN (SPELLD.ARC) which requires downloading 2
files; the deARCed set of files of one must be on drive 0, the other on drive 1
in a 512k CoCo;  won't work properly with a 1 meg upgrade (at least on mine; I
also have a 512k CoCo).

Both can be unARC'ed with ARCHIV.BIN

Hangman (mentioned above) does seem to work with any CoCo-3.

Doc files are lean on both; read'em with a w.p.
  

#: 12131 S1/General Interest
    08-Sep-91  14:43:04
Sb: SciCalc
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: anyone

  Has anyone been able to use the scientific calculator program?   Once loaded
as a module and called, it seems to only display opening logos and freeze up
the screen. Can be found in Applications lib.   -ph- 

#: 12132 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    08-Sep-91  17:12:49
Sb: #mod help
Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366
To:  75140,3175 (X)

All I have for EZgen is ver 1.02 (I have no -m command in this ver) He gave me
no update !! What do I have to do to get a copy?? Can you upload a copy in
email?

There is 1 Reply.

#: 12153 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    09-Sep-91  23:35:59
Sb: #12132-#mod help
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366 (X)

EZGen is commercially distributed and I therefore cannot legally upload it. I'd
suugest you upgrade to 1.09.  The only way Burke & Burke distributes updates is
selling them.  Just send them $5.00 and a copy of your 1.02's sales receipt. 
If you don't have the receipt, they might accept the original disk or
something:  contact them.  Their address is Box 733, Maple Valley, WA 98038. 
Orders go to 800 237 2409.  One thing you might also find helpful--and you CAN
download it--is kutil.  I just got it, but I have yet to even extract it.  This
will make it easier to edit the OS-9 kernel by converting kernel<-->disk file. 
Get a copy of that and check it out for yourself.  Meanwhile, it is possible to
install os9p3 even without EZGen, esp. if you have 2 disk drives.  Let me know
if you want to proceed this way or if you'd rather wait for a EZGen upgrade.

There are 2 Replies.

#: 12169 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    10-Sep-91  19:14:10
Sb: #12153-mod help
Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175

It's not just os9p3 i need to install i want to run multivu and I keep running
out of ram memory! I will upload you some stuff mabe will help you help me?

#: 12170 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    10-Sep-91  19:22:26
Sb: #12153-mod help
Fm: Everett Chimbidis 76370,1366
To: Erich Schulman 75140,3175

Where do I find kutil?? And does it have a ext?

#: 12133 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    08-Sep-91  17:13:04
Sb: #12123-Mouse_Hlp
Fm: Brother Jeremy, CSJW 76477,142
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

I see where I made my mistake. The good thing is, I understand your
explanation. It is coming together.

Thanks for the help,

Br. Jeremy, CSJW

#: 12134 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    08-Sep-91  18:44:52
Sb: #12109-RSM.PAK
Fm: James Whitaker 70355,431
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Your welcome. I found the new GFX2 really makes it easy to program those
pulldown menus.

#: 12137 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    08-Sep-91  21:34:01
Sb: #12117-#Intercepts
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

Well, ummm, errr, okay... Actually, in The OS9 Catalogue, page 21, it does
state that "system state functions and OS-9 interrupt service routines operate
only in sypervisor state..." So I assumed that when, on page 81 of the C
manual, they say "any i/o using the OS-9 C library (eg. printf) _cannot_ be
performed inside both the intercept handler function and the main program" I
figured that was the reason. Bob Taylor's comment about signals being enqueued
makes as much sense. But, then how does one un-enqueue the signals -- this
implies to me that if you were to use an intercept to restart a program (maybe
back to the main menu for a game, or whatever) then you'd only be able to do it
once. Under Level II I have used signals for that purpose, without any
problems. I assumed that (for whatever reason) you could not do it with OSK.
Maybe some more expanations from MW are in order. Also, all the examples from
MW that I've seen do avoid I/O in the intercept (they just set a flag and
return). Guess it's time to stop reading the manual and just write the code.
Also, would it make any difference if one is using the CIO trap for I/O?

There are 2 Replies.

#: 12141 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    09-Sep-91  00:28:08
Sb: #12137-#Intercepts
Fm: BILL HEALTON 73367,357
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

Bob - I have barely scratched the surface of C programming, but I have worked
with several device drivers. Applying their approach to your problem...maybe
you could try the following:

Create an initial "core" procedure that sets up an intercept, forks the other
procedure(s) of your program and tsleep(0). Then, any signal will wake the
"core" process...which can either ignore it and re-sleep or do your cleanup
and kill the children(ie. your program). The "core" procedure could even be
run at a higher priority than the children to ensure its not pre-empted by
a child during the cleanup/closeout time.

In the above the "core" and children should all be running in User state with
none of the System state restrictions. Hope this is of some help.

Bill Healton 73367,357


There is 1 Reply.

#: 12150 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    09-Sep-91  20:49:24
Sb: #12141-Intercepts
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: BILL HEALTON 73367,357

Interesting idea, running all the functions of a large program as sub-functions
of a tiny little core (maybe a menuer). I have to think a bit about that for
future projects. In the meantime, I just added the signal trap as others have
suggested and do the cleanup from it. Seems to work fine.

#: 12158 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    10-Sep-91  03:45:12
Sb: #12137-Intercepts
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

Bob,

The "interrupt routines" mentioned there, are for cpu interrupts... not user
interrupt service routines (which should just be called: signal service
routines :-)

I just took a quickie non-pro glance with the debugger at the kernel, and what
I see is this:

Whenever your turn to run comes (assumption: from a signal or sleep wakeup or
whatever), the kernel checks to see if you're already in an signal intercept
routine... if so, it cuts right back to you.

Therefore, I would think that normal wakeup driver signaling will still work,
and so doing I/O should be okay (which the exception of getting, say, a BREAK
key or something else that signals you especially).  Ie: don't expect to get
user signals while in the signal intercept routine :-)

If you jump out of your routine back into a main loop (under OSK or OS9), then
you leave a stackframe hanging around, which will slowly eat up your data area
until you crash.  Under OSK of course, you also leave the special "I'm in an
intercept routine" flag hanging, and won't ever enter the signal intercept code
again.  So the F$RTE under OSK is the correct way to exit.

Anyway, just some info.  I'm having to learn about OSK myself :-) kev

#: 12138 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    08-Sep-91  21:34:13
Sb: #12122-#Intercepts
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: Bob Taylor 73270,3124 (X)

Bob, Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll just have to give it a try and see what
happens, despite MW's admonishments to the contrary.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 12142 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    09-Sep-91  05:13:24
Sb: #12138-Intercepts
Fm: Bob Taylor 73270,3124
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

Bob,

Ooops - intercept(sig) should read catchsig(sig)!

It is my understanding that if other signals are pending, while in the
trap function, after exiting, the trap function is immediately called again
to process the next pending signal.

You should encounter no problems in this particular case.

Bob

#: 12147 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    09-Sep-91  08:59:25
Sb: #12116-#Intercepts
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

Bob,
 AS you've been told, you are not in system state when you go to your signal
trap. I assume by intercept mode you mean you have a line
 intercept(sigtrap);
 somewhere. What happens when you get a signal is this:
 (You cannot get one in the middle of a time slice, BTW)
 1 It is your process'es turn at the cpu (your time slice is coming).
 2 The kernel looks to see if you have any signals pending *before* switching
   to your task.
 3 If you have done an intercept() call, it executes the function you pointed
   to, pasing the signal as an int.
 4 *If* and when you return() from the signal trap, your process continues
   execution where it left off when its last time slice was up.
 The reason MW says to limit what you do in a signal trap is because you don't
want to risk missing a signal. If you were to do a sleep() in the signal trap,
10 processes could send signals to you, but you would only "get" the last one.














































































 (continues)

There is 1 Reply.

#: 12151 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    09-Sep-91  20:49:39
Sb: #12147-#Intercepts
Fm: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203
To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X)

Thanks for the details, Mark. I added the cleanup() stuff to the intercept
routine and all seems to work fine. Now, more questions: once the signal trap
has been entered all other signals will be blocked until a F$RTE is done ...
and this is only done when the intercept routine is actually terminated. I
suspect that jumping back to another section of the main program via a
longjmp() will not cause a F$RTE (it better not!), so this will leave the
signals in a blocked state. I wonder, would re-setting the intercept serve to
un-block things?

There are 3 Replies.

#: 12164 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    10-Sep-91  08:21:10
Sb: #12151-Intercepts
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

Bob,
 Not all signals are blocked. The last signal you were sent is held (you would
not really say it was queued) and handled on your next time slice. While in the
signal handler, you are still going to submit to the kernel's task switching so
may be in trouble. I would only do a bunch of stuff if I were going to exit().
If you are doing the longjmp() (is this OSK?) to make your code smaller, I
would recommend copying the block to your signal trap or putting it in a
function called , say, cleanup().
 The point is, you may even get switched out ("swapping" has been used here,
but that normally refers to sections of memory getting "swapped" out to the
disk. Few systems need to do this anymore as most uP's support paging. OS9's
kernels do not support either, though they used to talk about a level III that
would.), but will come back to the signal trap where you left off. I am pretty
sure you will not re-enter the trap at the top if there is another signal
pending. Microware would have to answer that one, and when you get their
support desk, they're going to try and talk you out of doing I/O in the trap,
even if you are about to exit.
 You could test this by putting a sleep(0) in a signal trap.
 Mark

#: 12165 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    10-Sep-91  08:26:27
Sb: #12151-#Intercepts
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

Bob,
 I just saw Kevin's response to you and he confirms that you will be put back
into your signal trap if you give up or lose your "tick". (I/O is almost sure
to put you in the sleep queue.)
 Whenever I start feeling like a genius, I just log in here and see how many
people there are that are smarter than me. ;)
 Mark

There is 1 Reply.

#: 12168 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    10-Sep-91  10:18:10
Sb: #12165-Intercepts
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Mark Wuest 74030,332 (X)

Mark,
  If you hadn't taken the time to give a bunch of clues, I sure wouldn't have
gone looking myself :-)   One of these days I'm gonna hafta take OSK apart so
that I can answer "with authority", instead of "it looks like to me" guesses
<grimace>

#: 12166 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    10-Sep-91  09:11:14
Sb: #12151-Intercepts
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

(Gads, this is my third response!)
 I just re-read your message offline and something in it set off an alarm in my
head (scary, isn't it?). Why do you want to "unblock" things when you are going
to exit()? The process is just going away. If you do not plan to exit(), read
Kevin's message carefully. What he says about the stack frame is absolutely
correct. The only proper way to "un-block" things is to return() from the
signal trap. This means you would have to first have to return() to the trap
from whatever routine you longjmp()'ed to. If I could, I would talk you out of
a goto (or its relative, longjmp()) here. If you have shared code, that's what
functions are for.
 Bag my ramblings and just make sure you return() from the trap. The compiler
or kernel will take care of making the F$RTE (oh, it's in the kernel). If
you're going to exit(), then you don't have to do anything.
 Mark

#: 12148 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    09-Sep-91  09:01:41
Sb: #12116-Intercepts
Fm: Mark Wuest 74030,332
To: Bob van der Poel 76510,2203 (X)

(continued)
 Since you are going to exit() anyway, who cares what other signals you might
have gotten? Go ahead and write(), close(), and unlink() to your heart's
content.
 Mark

#: 12140 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    09-Sep-91  00:11:56
Sb: #Public Domain
Fm: NEAL STEWARD 72716,1416
To: sysop (X)

How can I find out which software has been released as public domain? Our CoCo
club has taken a string anti-piracy stand and will not place copywrited
software on our bbs.  What is the legal status of software written or
distributed by now defunct companies?  Can distributio rights be obtained?  Who
own the rights to such software, the author or the distributor?  Any help would
be greatly appreciated, and beneficial to the Erie County Color Computer Club.



There is 1 Reply.

#: 12154 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    09-Sep-91  23:53:54
Sb: #12140-Public Domain
Fm: Erich Schulman 75140,3175
To: NEAL STEWARD 72716,1416

If software is p.d. or shareware, it will probably so state.  Commercial
software usually states that distribution is prohibited.  All software that is
not public domain is protected under the law which applies to it, either the
1909 law or the 1976 law.  Even if the company is now defunct, you can be sure
rights were transferred to someone first.  Even if not, the software is
technically still copyrighted.  You can get distributionrights provided an
exclusive license has not been given to someone else already. Of course, they
set the terms and price.  For that matter, you could even buy the entire
copyright unless the owner is hampered by exclusive licenses issued.  All
rights belong to the author unless the author was paid in which case rights
generally belong to the author's employer.  You might want to research the
Copyright Law of 1976 (Title 17 U.S.C.), esp. Chapter 1.  Also, go by the legal
forum (GO LAWSIG, I think) and the Shareware Association's forum (can't recall
how to get there right now).

#: 12143 S12/OS9/68000 (OSK)
    09-Sep-91  06:09:02
Sb: OSK standards
Fm: Robert A. Larson 75126,723
To:  76576,3312

I've uploaded my reply to Ed's oskstand.doc to standrep.doc in dl 12.

#: 12152 S1/General Interest
    09-Sep-91  22:08:40
Sb: gshell+
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: anyone

I thought I'd go back and try an ipatch to gshell from the ground up and keep a
sort of log of ident changes along the way to the latest version but didn't get
past square 1.  Maybe it's too long ago to remember what the first step is;
correct me if I'm wrong:
  Take a stock gshell and apply the gshell.ipc patch thusly:

Ipatch gshell.ipc gshell gshell+ -v

I get:

IPatch Version 1.1
CopyRight (c) 1987 By R.M.Santy
Patch entry for $0002
Changes 2 bytes
Old file data mismatch at $0002
is $FF, should be $3F
Patch NOT complete
ERROR #001

If I do an ident on gshell after this attempted patch I get
>module header incorrect<

So what's going on?    -ph- 

#: 12162 S1/General Interest
    10-Sep-91  08:04:29
Sb: #gshell+
Fm: Paul Hanke 73467,403
To: Kevin Darling 76703,4227 (X)

I knew that gshell+ as a filename won't work but I'd rename it after deleting
the original gshell.  I thot of using dEd too but the patch must have worked
the first time I tried it or I wouldn't now have an upgrade already!...(?)
  How 'bout using modpatch after having loaded original gshell into memory
within an OS9 boot, SAVEing to /r0, then applying the gshell.ipc patch?   -ph-

  Oops, seem to have hit DELETE on your message instead of CANCEL.

There is 1 Reply.

#: 12167 S1/General Interest
    10-Sep-91  10:10:18
Sb: #12162-gshell+
Fm: Kevin Darling 76703,4227
To: Paul Hanke 73467,403 (X)

Sure, modpatch should work for that.

kev

urrgh. lotsa line noise today.

#: 12163 S10/OS9/6809 (CoCo)
    10-Sep-91  08:09:27
Sb: Multi-Pak
Fm: David Betz 76704,47
To: all

I just acquired an ancient (grey case with internal power supply) Multi-Pak
interface for the CoCo.  Can someone point me to the instructions for updating
this to work with a CoCo3 under OS-9?  I seem to remember some modification
involving interrupts that needs to be done to allow the RS232 pak to work
correctly.  On that subject, does anyone have an RS232 pak they're interested
in selling?  I'm also interested in a hard disk controller that can handle SCSI
drives.

Thanks, David Betz

Press <CR> !>