textfiles/magazines/FUCK/fuck0369.txt

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=   F.U.C.K. - Fucked Up College Kids - Born Jan. 24th, 1993 - F.U.C.K.   =
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                      separation of church and state
                      ------------------------------

        If you have read past files of mine, you probably have a good
idea of my religious beliefs (or lack there of). I don't want to turn
this file into any form of religious debate, but turn more to how the
American government originally felt religion should be handled and
how it has fallen short of its original planning.
        For over two hundred years now, politicians have babbled about
the concept of this separation. They follow the trend of the politicians
before them in saying that the founding fathers created this separation
and that it was a firm part of our system. By ranting on about there
not being a national religion, they have fooled a large part of the mass
into believing their lies. While the masses ate this up, they kept their
own religious beliefs in the system.

        The following two instances are the only places the Constitution
mentions 'relgion'. As you can see, there was never a mention of the
separation of church and state. The phrase we like to quote actually
comes from the letter (partially quoted) after the segments from
the Constitution.

        Article VI Section (3)

        "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the
        members of the several State legislatures, and all executive and
        judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several
        States, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this
        Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a
        qualification to any office or public trust under the United
        States. [emphasis added] "

        Amendment I

        "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
        religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging
        the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the
        people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for
        a redress of grievances."


        Letter to the Danbury Baptists
        Thomas Jefferson, 1802

        "Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely
        between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for
        his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government
        reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign
        reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that
        their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment
        of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus
        building a wall of separation between church and state. Adhering to
        this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of 
        the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the
        progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his
        natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to
        his social duties."


        After consideration of the above, consider the following
examples that show a clear lack of separation. Some of these may seem
extremely trivial, but consider them in the bigger picture.

        * For the past few years there has been a series of 'black'
          churches that have been burnt to the ground in the south.
          Since it is happening in the south, and is directed toward
          'black' churches, it is pretty apparent that racism is a
          major factor here. After several pleas for help from black
          community leaders, the government has offered 10 million
          dollars to help rebuild the destroyed churches.

        * In Denver, Colorado, there is a street (University) that
          is typically a four lane road with heavy traffic during
          most of the day. On Sunday mornings the state allows
          parking in front of one of the churches (but not several
          others of different beliefs). This parking accommodates
          seven or eight cars to park there. During the course of
          Sunday morning mass, several hundred cars pass by forcing
          traffic to three lanes. Because of the unexpected parked
          cars, there are frequently 'close call collisions'.

        * In several military bases, there are offices and meeting
          places for chaplains and religious gatherings. In the last
          base I was at, there was a separate office for the chaplain
          and his assistant(s). Beyond that are full blown churches
          built with citizen tax dollars.

        * In almost every city or town you go through, you will
          find dozens of streets with religiously derived names.
          The last one I passed was "Baptist Street".

        * I know in recent years the court system has changed their
          procedures to satisfy everyone, but for hundreds of years
          you were forced to swear on a bible. Beyond that, you can
          still find various plaques and symbols in courts that
          contain religious references or symbols.

        * Despite past debate, there are still religious references
          on US Currency. Currency used by every American citizen,
          paid for by tax dollars.

        * Post offices around the country sell stamps with religious
          figures, references, or symbols. These are also funded by
          our tax dollars, and are continually given to anyone asking
          to purchase stamps, regardless of their religious beliefs.

        * New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani recently said "Mother
          Teresa does not get tickets." He agreed to grant Mother
          Teresa special dispensation after she requested ticket-free
          parking permits for her fellow nuns who have found ministering
          and parking in the city too difficult.

        * Recently, a lightning strike hit the steeple of a church here
          in Denver. Since then (over three weeks ago), they have had
          some portion of Colfax Avenue (the longest continous city street
          in America) closed. At the beginning, it was both lanes
          blocked off. Now, it is still west bound traffic. While the
          road is closed, it is impacting thousands of people a day,
          and hindering other businesses across the street.


        Once again, it may sound somewhat mean spirited that I would
complain about some of these things, especially the last, but as with
many things, you must set a standard and live with it. This means taking
the good with the bad. I find it more amazing that people I know would
argue with me that there is currently a complete separation. Surely they
have run into some of the above listed items. I think it is a matter of
overlooking these events and dismissing them as part of daily life,
while not considering part of the foundation of our government.

        There is little that can be done to remedy the problem, and I
am sure there are a lot of people that don't even see this as a problem,
but it does go against the Constitution. If nothing else, let this
file serve as a reminder to everyone that many people out there find
this sort of oversight an insult to the American Government. The
Constitution says there is supposed to be a separation of church and
state... but it appears this is another area society and its leaders
have failed to keep the 'faith'.

        If I haven't pursuaded you of this fact, then maybe some quotes
from bigger names will help you.


        Benjamin Franklin at the Constitutional Convention June 28, 1787:

        "I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more
        convincing proof I see of the truth - that God governs in the
        affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without
        His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?
        We have been assured, Sir, in the sacred writings, that 'except the
        Lord build the House, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly
        believe this; and I also believe that without this concurring aid
        we shall succeed in this political building no better, than the
        Builders of Babel: We shall be divided by our partial local
        interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves shall
        become a reproach and bye word down to future ages. And what is
        worse, mankind may hereafter from this unfortunate instance, despair
        of establishing Government by human wisdom and leave it to chance, 
        war and conquest. I therefore beg leave to move - that henceforth
        prayers imploring the audience of Heaven, and its blessings on our
        deliberations, be held in this assembly every morning before we
        proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this
        city be requested to officiate in that service."


        Thomas Jefferson:

        "And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have
        removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the
        people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are
        not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my
        country when I reflect that God is just, that His justice cannot
        sleep forever."


        Alexis de Tocqueville:

        "Religion in America ... must nevertheless be regarded as the
        foremost of the political instituions of that country ... I do not
        know whether all the Americans have a sincere faith in their
        religion, for who can search the human heart? But I am certain that
        they hold it to be indispensable to the maintenance of republican
        institutions. This position is not peculiar to a class of citizens
        or to a party, but it belongs to the whole nation, and to every rank
        of society ... Christianity, therefore, reigns without any obstacle,
        by universal consent."


        US Supreme Court - Church of the Holy Trinity vs US 1892:

        "This is a religious people. This is historically true. From the
        discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single
        voice making this affirmation ..... These are not individual sayings,
        declarations of private persons: they are organic utterances, they
        speak the voice of the entire people .... These, and many other
        matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial
        declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a
        Christian nation."


        North Carolina Constitution 1876

        "No person who shall deny the being of God, or the truth of the
        Protestant religion, or the divine authority of the Old or New
        Testaments, or who shall hold religious principles incompatible
        with the freedom and safety of the State, shall be capable of
        holding any office or place of trust in the civil department
        within this State."


        John Jay - First Chief Justice US Supreme Court:

        "Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers,
        and it is the duty as well as the privilege of our Christian
        nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers."


        George Washington - Inaugural Speech to Congress April 30, 1789:

        "No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the the Invisible
        Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than those of the United
        States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of
        an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token
        of providential agency ... We ought to be no less persuaded that the
        propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a Nation that
        disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself
        has ordained."


        John Adams:

        "We have no government armed with power capable of contending with
        human passions unbridled by morality and religion ... Our
        constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is
        wholly inadequate to the government of any other."


        Judge Joseph Story - 19th Century Supreme Court Justice:

        "The real object of the First Ammendment was not to countenance,
        much less to advance, Mohammedanism, or Judaism, or infidelity, by
        prostrating Christianity, but to exclude all rivalry among Christian
        sects, and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment
        which would give to an hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the
        national government."

        "We are not to attribute this prohibition of a national religious
        establishment [in the First Ammendment] to an indifference to
        religion in general, and especially to Christianity, which none
        could hold in more reverence than the framers of the Constitution
        .... Probably, at the time of the adoption of the Constitution,
        and of the Ammendments to it ... the general, if not the universal,
        sentiment in America was, that Christianity ought to receive
        encouragement from the State."


        House Judiciary Report in 1854:

        "Chistianity must be considered as the foundation upon which the
        whole structure rests. Laws will not have not permanence or power
        without the sanction of religious sentitment, without a firm belief
        that there is a Power above us that will reward our virtues and
        punish our vices. In this age there will be no substitute for
        Christianity: that, in its general principles, is the great
        conservative element on which we must rely for the purity and
        permanence of free institutions. That was the religion of the 
        founders of the Republic, and they expected it to remain the
        religion of their descendants. There is a great and very prevalent
        error on this subject in the opinion that those who organized this
        Government did not legislate on religion."

        "The great vital and conservative element in our system is the
        belief of our people in the pure doctrines and divine truths of
        the gospel of Jesus Christ."


        Patrick Henry:

        "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great
        nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on
        religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason
        people of other faiths have been afforded asylums, prosperitity and
        freedom of worship here."


        Supreme Court of Pennsylvania - Updegraph vs The Commonwealth 1824:

        "No free government now exists in the world unless where Christianity
        is acknowledged and is the religion of the country ... Its foundations
        are broad and strong, and deep .... It is the purest system of
        morality, the firmest auxialry, and the only stable support of all
        human laws."

        "Christianity, general Christianity, is and always has been a part of
        the common law ... Thus this wise legislature framed this great body
        of laws, for a Christian country and Christian people ... No society
        can tolerate a willful and despiteful attempt to subvert its religion,
        no more than it would to break down it laws - a general, malicious
        and deliberate attempt to overthrow Christianity, general
        Christianity."


        Calvin Coolidge:

        "The foundations of our society and our government rest so much on
        the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support
        them if the faith in their teachings would cease to be practically
        universal in our country."


        Continental Congress - May 16, 1776:

        "The Congress ... desirous ... to have people of all ranks and
        degrees duly impressed with a solemn sense of God's superintending
        providence, and of their duty, devoutly to rely ... on His aid and
        direction ... Do earnestly recommend ... a day of humiliation,
        fasting and prayer; that we may, with united hearts, confess and
        bewail our manifold sins and transgressions, and, by a sincere
        repentance and ammendment of life ... and through the merits and
        mediation of Jesus Christ, obtain His pardon and forgiveness."


        Noah Webster:

        "When you become entitled to exercise the right of voting for public
        officers' let it be impressed upon your mind that God commands you
        to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God. The
        preservation of a republican government depends upon the faithful
        discharge of this duty; if the citizens neglect their duty and place
        unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted ...
        If a republican government fails ... it must be because the citizens
        neglect the divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer
        the laws."


        Charles Finney - 19th Century Minister and Lawyer:

        "The Church must take right ground in regard to politics ... The time
        has come that Christians must vote for honest men, and take consistent
        ground in politics or the Lord will curse them ... God cannot sustain
        this free and blessed country, which we love and pray for, unless the
        Church will take the right ground. Politics are a part of religion, in
        such a country as this, and Christians must do their duty to their
        country as a part of their duty to God."


[Information for this file was collected over the past few years. I apologize
 if I have missed any credit that should have been given.]

                                dis

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