914 lines
45 KiB
Plaintext
914 lines
45 KiB
Plaintext
|
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
****************************************************************************
|
|||
|
>C O M P U T E R U N D E R G R O U N D<
|
|||
|
>D I G E S T<
|
|||
|
*** Volume 2, Issue #2.09 (October 27, 1990) **
|
|||
|
****************************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
MODERATORS: Jim Thomas / Gordon Meyer (TK0JUT2@NIU.bitnet)
|
|||
|
ARCHIVISTS: Bob Krause / Alex Smith
|
|||
|
USENET readers can currently receive CuD as alt.society.cu-digest.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
COMPUTER UNDERGROUND DIGEST is an open forum dedicated to sharing
|
|||
|
information among computerists and to the presentation and debate of
|
|||
|
diverse views. CuD material may be reprinted as long as the source is
|
|||
|
cited. It is assumed that non-personal mail to the moderators may be
|
|||
|
reprinted, unless otherwise specified. Readers are encouraged to submit
|
|||
|
reasoned articles relating to the Computer Underground.
|
|||
|
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|||
|
DISCLAIMER: The views represented herein do not necessarily represent the
|
|||
|
views of the moderators. Contributors assume all responsibility
|
|||
|
for assuring that articles submitted do not violate copyright
|
|||
|
protections.
|
|||
|
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
CONTENTS:
|
|||
|
File 1: Moderators' Corner
|
|||
|
File 2: Len Rose Arrest
|
|||
|
File 3: Mars was not "Censored"
|
|||
|
File 4: Response to Mars "Censoring"
|
|||
|
File 5: Steve Jackson Games (SJG) Update
|
|||
|
File 6: The Future of Hacking and the System Security Profession
|
|||
|
File 7: The Ultimate Interface: Hackers and the Private Sector
|
|||
|
File 8: CU in the News: "Hackers" and Bank Blackmail in England
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
----------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
*** CuD #2.09, File 1 of 8: Moderator's corner ***
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
From: Moderators
|
|||
|
Subject: Moderators' Corner
|
|||
|
Date: October 27, 1990
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
++++++++++
|
|||
|
In this file:
|
|||
|
1. COPYRIGHT ARTICLE INFORMATION
|
|||
|
2. BIBLIOGRAPHIC RESOURCES
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
+++++++++++++++
|
|||
|
Copyright Article Information
|
|||
|
+++++++++++++++
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
CuD is *NOT* copyright, and articles by moderators, anonymous articles, and
|
|||
|
other articles may be reprinted as long as the source is attributed.
|
|||
|
However, occasionally an individual article is copyright protected. The
|
|||
|
article in CuD 2.08 by Jim Warren on "PCs and Political Organizing" is an
|
|||
|
example of a submission that is copyprotected but remains freely available
|
|||
|
for others' use. We have heard horror tales of authors who make public
|
|||
|
posts and then later find their material plagiarized and copyright
|
|||
|
protected under another's name. So, do not copyright others' material as
|
|||
|
your own. That's tacky--very, very tacky. If a CuD article is listed as
|
|||
|
copyright (this notice was excluded from Jim Warren's article), you should
|
|||
|
check directly with that author (not CuD) for permission to reprint it.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
++++++++++++++++++
|
|||
|
Bibliographic Resources
|
|||
|
+++++++++++++++++++
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
We are trying to compile a list of bibliographic sources related to the CU
|
|||
|
to eventually place in the archives. If you are writing term paper,
|
|||
|
conference papers, or articles, or if you come across books, legal cases,
|
|||
|
or other references that seem relevant, send the full citation over to us.
|
|||
|
If you come across new books, or better, if you do a book review, send the
|
|||
|
titles or the review along as well.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
>> END OF THIS FILE <<
|
|||
|
***************************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
------------------------------
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
From: Moderators
|
|||
|
Subject: Len Rose Arrest
|
|||
|
Date: October 26, 1990
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
*** CuD #2.09: File 2 of 8: Len Rose Arrest ***
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Len Rose was arrested on state charges of "computer tampering" in
|
|||
|
Naperville, Ill., Naperville police confirmed Monday night. Len obtained
|
|||
|
a job at Interactive Systems Corporation, a software consulting firm, in
|
|||
|
Naperville and began Monday, October 15. Friday, he was fired. Bail was
|
|||
|
initially set at $50,000, and as of late Friday afternoon, he remained
|
|||
|
in jail.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Len's wife speaks little English and is stuck in Naperville, lacking both
|
|||
|
friends and resources. Len currently has no money to post bond, and this
|
|||
|
leaves he and his family in a dreadful situation.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
We caution readers to remember that, under our Constitution, Len is
|
|||
|
*innocent* unless proven otherwise, but there is something quite
|
|||
|
troublesome about this affair. Hopefully, we'll soon learn what specific
|
|||
|
charges and what evidence led to those charges. Even if a "worst case"
|
|||
|
scenario evolves, there are surely better ways to handle such cases in less
|
|||
|
intrusive and devastating ways. Devastated lives and full invocation of
|
|||
|
the CJ process are simply not cost effective for handling these types of
|
|||
|
situations.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
>> END OF THIS FILE <<
|
|||
|
***************************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
------------------------------
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
From: Gene Spafford <spaf@CS.PURDUE.EDU>
|
|||
|
Subject: Mars was not "Censored"
|
|||
|
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 90 14:11:52 EST
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
*** CuD #2.09: File 3 of 8: Mars was not "Censored" ***
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
I'm against censorship in pretty much any guise. I'm opposed to people who
|
|||
|
try to have gif images pulled from sites soley because of their
|
|||
|
sexually-oriented content.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
However, if I were running a news site, I would not carry the current
|
|||
|
alt.sex.pictures newsgroup, nor would I have an archive of the images.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
This is not a contradiction in terms.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
First off, I am not trying to have anyone else's collection of images
|
|||
|
pulled because of the subject matter, nor am I trying to prevent others
|
|||
|
from seeing those images.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
So, if I'm not against the subject matter of the material, why would I
|
|||
|
prevent their transmission through my site and storage on my disk?
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Reason number 1 is most of those images were scanned in from magazines and
|
|||
|
films that have active copyright protection. Scanning them in and
|
|||
|
transmitting them around is a violation of copyright. Not only is that not
|
|||
|
legal, I don't view it as proper to infringe on copyright. Storing those
|
|||
|
images is an infringement.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Reason #2 is the quality of most of those images is poor compared with the
|
|||
|
original. If you want stuff like that, almost any bookstore or videotape
|
|||
|
rental place has the originals. Or, you can order by mail. I don't see
|
|||
|
the value of tying up bandwidth and storage to transmit poor copies of
|
|||
|
material that is generally available elsewhere.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
If the machine was a personal machine, I wouldn't keep the images because I
|
|||
|
have no use for them. They may (or may not) be interesting to look at some
|
|||
|
of them once, but after that I don't see any use for them. And as things
|
|||
|
go, I barely have enough free disk on most of machines as it is. If the
|
|||
|
machine was a shared machine, this reason would need to be explored with
|
|||
|
the other users, but it holds with most people I've talked with about these
|
|||
|
images.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The bottom line is that there may be legitimate reasons not to have these
|
|||
|
images or carry newsgroups or mailing lists containing them. I think
|
|||
|
prudes are dangerous, but I also realize that everyone declining to have
|
|||
|
these images online is not automatically bowing to censorship or forbidding
|
|||
|
their presence because of content.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
>> END OF THIS FILE <<
|
|||
|
***************************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
------------------------------
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
From: portal!cup.portal.com!dan-hankins@SUN.COM
|
|||
|
Subject: Response to Mars "Censoring"
|
|||
|
Date: Sun, 21 Oct 90 00:04:25 PDT
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
*** CuD #2.09: File 4 of 8: Response to Mars "Censoring" ***
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
In article <CuD #2.08 #3>, Karl Lehenbauer <karl@sugar.hackercorp.com> writes,
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
>I used Prodigy several times, and it is a heavily censored system,...
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
This is inaccurate. Prodigy is not censored, it is _edited_. There is a
|
|||
|
significant difference. When newspaper articles are removed by government
|
|||
|
order, that's censorship. When the newspaper owners decide to not run an
|
|||
|
article because it is counter to their editorial policies (or personal
|
|||
|
prejudices), then that's editing.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The difference is that in the first case, the State is telling a citizen (by
|
|||
|
threat of force) what she can and cannot do with her own property. In the
|
|||
|
second, a citizen is disposing of his property as he sees fit.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The Prodigy situation is far more like the second case than the first.
|
|||
|
Prodigy resources are owned by IBM and Sears. Since Prodigy is their
|
|||
|
property, they may dispose of it as they see fit. This includes editing their
|
|||
|
databases to remove any information inconsistent with their policies.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Some may argue that the $10 a month (plus fees for other services provided)
|
|||
|
gives the Prodigy subscriber the right to post anything she desires. This
|
|||
|
isn't the case. The subscriber is paying for the right to use the resources
|
|||
|
as provided for in the contract. Unless IBM and Sears agree in the contract
|
|||
|
not to edit or abridge information residing on Prodigy, they continue to have
|
|||
|
the right, both morally and legally, to do so.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Censorship is when some organization says, "You may not say X.". Editing is
|
|||
|
when some organization says, "You may not use _my property_ to say X." This
|
|||
|
is an important distinction to make explicit; there is an increasing tendency
|
|||
|
for people to believe that they have not only the right to say whatever they
|
|||
|
want, but also the unlimited right to use the property of others to do so.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Mr. Lehenbauer also writes,
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
>If this is IBM's view of the future of personal electronic communications...
|
|||
|
>it is a bleak future indeed... every message must be so inoffensive that
|
|||
|
>*nobody* is going to be offended by it... and that is censorship.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
IBM doesn't control electronic communications in this country; the Prodigy
|
|||
|
subscriber is certainly free to go elsewhere to express his views. This is
|
|||
|
what many of them are doing. BIX is getting a lot of former Prodigy users
|
|||
|
these days.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
It's not censorship.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
It's also worth mentioning here that although the Prodigy bulletin board
|
|||
|
system is edited, Sears and IBM have agreed to not edit email. Users are free
|
|||
|
to form email groups (like Internet mailing lists) to discuss whatever they
|
|||
|
want, from sex to explosives. They just have to pay extra for it.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
In article <CuD #2.08 #4), the moderators write,
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
>In the MARS incident, the NSF flexed its fiscal muscles (according to those
|
|||
|
>on the receiving end).
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
This is again not censorship. The NSF pays for the Internet, and has the
|
|||
|
right to say how those monies are spent. Since MARS resided on an Internet
|
|||
|
node, the NSF had the right to refuse to pay for those files to be transmitted
|
|||
|
across its network. In fact, the NSF has the right to refuse to pay for
|
|||
|
network connections for any site for any reason whatsoever, unless it has made
|
|||
|
a contract to the contrary. If this is "flexing its fiscal muscles", then so
|
|||
|
be it.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The quoted article quotes some other postings. I reproduce here the relevant
|
|||
|
portions:
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
>I also don't like the idea of the university having to censor this board to
|
|||
|
>suit the narrow-minded leanings of a few people...
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
>Again i am sorry that CENSORSHIP found its way into another democratic haven
|
|||
|
>of society...
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
This is just more of the sort of illogic I referred to earlier. If these
|
|||
|
folks want their X-rated pictures, then they can have them. They just can't
|
|||
|
expect somebody else (the NSF or their University) to pay for them. They are
|
|||
|
certainly free to start their own BBS or post the material on a private BBS or
|
|||
|
Usenet mail server that allows such stuff.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
>Can a few angry letters to a federal bureaucrat invoke threats of fiscal
|
|||
|
>blackmail?
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
If I boycott your business because I find some of your activities
|
|||
|
objectionable, am I threatening you with fiscal blackmail? Why should the
|
|||
|
NSF or a university be any different? The NSF is just boycotting sites that
|
|||
|
carry material it finds offensive, and the universities are just exercising
|
|||
|
their right to control use of their property.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
>It would seem that officials could confiscate the equipment of a sysop who
|
|||
|
>maintained adult .gif/.gl files.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
If you are concluding this on the basis of the "federal prosecutions and
|
|||
|
application of RICO" referred to earlier, then I agree with you that it's
|
|||
|
something to be worried about. It would be a violation of various First
|
|||
|
Amendment rights.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
If you're concluding this by extension from the NSF actions, I must
|
|||
|
disagree. A government agency deciding what it wants to spend its money on is
|
|||
|
hardly analogous to confiscating someone's property. The legal right to do
|
|||
|
one does not provide the legal right to do the other.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
>A recent article... raised the spectre of "licensing" BBSs.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Now _this_ is something to worry about. This reminds me of the situation
|
|||
|
in oppressive regimes, where printing presses and photocopiers are "licensed".
|
|||
|
Somehow I don't think they'll get away with this one. Any such regulation
|
|||
|
would be a clear violation of First (and other) Amendment rights.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
CLARIFICATION:
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
When an organization is funded by extortion (i.e. taxes), those who fund it
|
|||
|
have a moral right to say how those funds will be spent, over and above the
|
|||
|
organization's aims. The receivers of the service _still_ don't have any
|
|||
|
rights of control, unless they have entered into a contract with the provider
|
|||
|
that gives them that right.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
In a constitutionally limited republic such as ours, that taxpayer control is
|
|||
|
exerted in one of two ways. The first is by electing to government those we
|
|||
|
believe will implement the policies we want. The second (and far more rare
|
|||
|
option) is referendum.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
As long as its decisions remain within the policies set for it by elected
|
|||
|
officials and referendum, the NSF has the right to spend (or refuse to spend)
|
|||
|
its money as it likes.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
If the article I read in CuD is any indication, the purpose of the NSFnet is
|
|||
|
to only support the exchange of "scholarly" information. X-rated GIFs don't
|
|||
|
belong in that category, in most folks' eyes.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
:END CLARIFICATION
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
By the way, with PC-Pursuit costs, I pay $40 a month for Net access. Yet at
|
|||
|
work there is an Internet gateway I could sign up for access to and use to
|
|||
|
make my posts (for free!). The reason I don't is that I don't think it's
|
|||
|
moral to use IBM resources for purposes IBM wouldn't approve of, such as
|
|||
|
expressing disapproval of their policies; it's their property. So I'm not
|
|||
|
just spouting rhetoric that doesn't cost me anything.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
+++++++++
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Dan Hankins
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
dan-hankins@cup.portal.com
|
|||
|
dan-hankins@pro-realm.cts.com
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Complete the following: Pro is to Con as Progress is to ________.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Disclaimer: I don't work for the NSF or Sears. Although I have a contract
|
|||
|
with IBM to provide programming services to them in return for a salary, this
|
|||
|
does not constitute approval for their policies. In particular, I think that
|
|||
|
their Prodigy policies, while not immoral, are particularly stupid. The kind
|
|||
|
of editing they do on the bulletin board, their ridiculously high email
|
|||
|
charges, and their complete lack of upload/download capability will simply
|
|||
|
drive customers to other services. I am not a Prodigy subscriber, nor do I
|
|||
|
intend to become one. For the same $10 a month, I like Portal much better.
|
|||
|
And I post things in alt.individualism that you'd never see on Prodigy BBS.
|
|||
|
I defend your right to freedom of expression. Just don't ask me or anyone
|
|||
|
else to foot the bill.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
>> END OF THIS FILE <<
|
|||
|
***************************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
------------------------------
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
From: Steve Jackson
|
|||
|
Subject: Steve Jackson Games (SJG) Update
|
|||
|
Date: October 23, 1990
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
*** CuD #2.09: File 5 of 8: Steve Jackson Games Update ***
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
%The following, by Steve Jackson, is reprinted with permission
|
|||
|
from two posts on The Well--moderators%.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
++++++++++++
|
|||
|
UPDATE ON SJ GAMES
|
|||
|
++++++++++++
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
We were raided on March 1. Most people here have heard that story, though
|
|||
|
I'm working on an article for upload. This is an excerpt, because I don't
|
|||
|
know when I'll have time to finish the whole thing.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The brief story: The Secret Service took 3 computers, a laser printer, lots
|
|||
|
of assorted hardware, lots of disks and papers, and lots of my business
|
|||
|
data. In particular, they took every current copy, on paper or disk, of
|
|||
|
the new book we were about to send to the printer.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Because of the confiscation of the GURPS Cyberpunk book, our business came
|
|||
|
to a standstill for six weeks - the time it took us to reconstruct it and
|
|||
|
get it to the printer.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
THE RETURN
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
In early June, we started talking to the people setting up the EFF, and
|
|||
|
word leaked out; I got several inquiries from reporters. On June 20, quite
|
|||
|
suddenly, the Secret Service called to say we could have our property back.
|
|||
|
So we went to pick it up. They really did give most of our stuff back. They
|
|||
|
kept one hard disk and some assorted hardware, as well as some papers. Of
|
|||
|
the things they returned, one computer required $200 in repairs before it
|
|||
|
would work. Another has so much visible damage that I don't even want to
|
|||
|
turn it on.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Loyd hasn't gotten ANY of his things back.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
And we still don't know why they raided us. They took our book; they took
|
|||
|
our BBS computer; they took a lot of things. And their application for a
|
|||
|
search warrant is STILL sealed. So we can speculate, but that's all.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Nobody connected with the business has been arrested. Nobody has been
|
|||
|
indicted. Nobody has been charged. Nobody has even been QUESTIONED again.
|
|||
|
And these guys are still saying "No comment." Well, if I were in their
|
|||
|
shoes, I wouldn't have any comment, either.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
OUR CURRENT STATUS (SIGH)
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
We're not a big business, and the cost of the raid (now well over $125,000)
|
|||
|
pushed us to the wall. We have been squeaking by ever since then -
|
|||
|
sometimes things look more hopeful, sometimes less. The problem is cash
|
|||
|
flow.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
We have kept up with our long-term debt (in fact, we've cleared all but
|
|||
|
$50K of it up, making most payments on the last day of the grace period),
|
|||
|
but we have been very slow-paying with current suppliers. We simply have no
|
|||
|
margin for error; any unexpected expense or failure of income will knock us
|
|||
|
off. As I write this, a couple of big receivables didn't come in when they
|
|||
|
should have; we're about to default on a note payment, and our big printers
|
|||
|
are demanding CASH NOW OR NO MORE PRINTING, for which I can't blame them.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
So the current news is not good. We should still be all right if we make it
|
|||
|
into 1991, but current cash is tighter than it has been for months.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
+++++++++++++
|
|||
|
SIGNIFICANT STATUS UPDATE:
|
|||
|
+++++++++++++
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The warrant application under which my offices were raided has been
|
|||
|
unsealed. It was unsealed a month ago! Apparently this was just after the
|
|||
|
last request from Silverglate and Good, but they were not informed that it
|
|||
|
had been unsealed. (Question of etiquette here?)
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
At any rate, I got a copy today in a package from Senator Bentsen's office,
|
|||
|
in reply to my last letter asking if the Senator could help get this
|
|||
|
information. He could and did.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Ver-r-r-r-y interesting. A copy has gone to Silverglate and Good, who
|
|||
|
should have comments shortly. Brief answers to oft-repeated questions, now
|
|||
|
that I really do know what's going on:
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Yes, this was connected to the Neidorf case. Specifically, my managing
|
|||
|
editor was being "accused" of receiving a copy of the Phrack issue with the
|
|||
|
E911 file and posting it on the BBS, Phoenix Project. The description of
|
|||
|
the E911 file included the same wild allegations that were exploded during
|
|||
|
the Phrack trial.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
No, there is nothing in the application to indicate that the GURPS
|
|||
|
CYBERPUNK game was a target when they came in the door (which does not
|
|||
|
mitigate the seriousness of their effective suppression of the text).
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Yes, they definitely knew that they were raiding a BBS system; it was one
|
|||
|
of the things they were after. The application specifically defined what a
|
|||
|
BBS is - though it did not mention the ECPA or the protections granted
|
|||
|
therein.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
No, they alleged no criminal behavior on my part or on the company's part.
|
|||
|
SJ Games was invaded because Loyd Blankenship was an employee and a
|
|||
|
co-sysop and frequent user of our BBS.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
No, there's nothing there to change my attitude toward Loyd. He is a valued
|
|||
|
employee, innocent until proven guilty, and they haven't even STARTED to
|
|||
|
prove anything.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
I am, no doubt, oversimplifying in my attempt to boil a large stack of
|
|||
|
paper down to a short update - but that does seem to me to be the gist of
|
|||
|
it. I'm sure the attorneys will have more to add soon.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
>> END OF THIS FILE <<
|
|||
|
***************************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
------------------------------
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
From: BORGVM
|
|||
|
Subject: The Future of Hacking and the System Security Profession
|
|||
|
Date: 22 Oct., '90
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
*** CuD #2.09: File 6 of 8: Hacking and System Security ***
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Before I begin the discussion of my views on the future of hacking and the
|
|||
|
system security profession, I feel it necessary to offer an introduction
|
|||
|
which I hope will aid in the understanding of my views. I am an ex-hacker,
|
|||
|
yet in saying so I do not rule out a few things which I associate with my
|
|||
|
personal perspective on hacking. To begin with, I have always associated
|
|||
|
hacking with a genuine lust for knowledge. Whether or not that knowledge
|
|||
|
was restricted solely depends on the views of the individual. For me,
|
|||
|
however, hacking was an acquisition of knowledge a form the military likes
|
|||
|
to give as a good reason to join it. You know, hands-on training, of
|
|||
|
course!
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
It was an attempt to learn as many operating systems as possible. Their
|
|||
|
strengths in comparison to one another, their weaknesses, and their
|
|||
|
nuances. When I was hacking, data was sacred. It was something which
|
|||
|
must not be harmed. I can say with genuine conviction that every time I
|
|||
|
heard of destructive viruses, malicious crashes, or the like, I would
|
|||
|
become enraged far more than would your common security professional, who
|
|||
|
would most likely eye the event as a possibility to acquire cash,
|
|||
|
reputation in the foiling of the plot, or as leverage to gain funding and
|
|||
|
public support.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Although my respect towards data is still very healthy, my urge to hack is
|
|||
|
not. After entering higher education, I have been granted an account on
|
|||
|
the mainframe with internet and bitnet access. This situation had served
|
|||
|
as a fuel towards my already healthy paranoia of law enforcement and their
|
|||
|
new technologies: its just not worth the risk.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
After my 'retirement', however, I began to ponder the devices available
|
|||
|
during the apex of my hacking career such as ANI (Automatic Number
|
|||
|
Identification) and CLID (Caller Line Identification) which could
|
|||
|
instantaneously register the number of any 800 caller, and processes
|
|||
|
inherent in some digital switching systems which register calls to local
|
|||
|
packet-switched networks, that about 20% of my hacks could be traced right
|
|||
|
to my doorstep by the right investigator.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
I also noted the increase in these types of investigators and the
|
|||
|
development of more organized computer-security networks involving FBI,
|
|||
|
Secret Service, and private computer security enterprises which developed
|
|||
|
highly efficient training methods: the numbers of security representatives
|
|||
|
in the telephone companies and computer networks has increased
|
|||
|
dramatically, and to a point where telephone company toll fraud is no
|
|||
|
longer convenient, for danger and convenience rarely coexist.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
I believe that the future will offer much protection from hacking, but only
|
|||
|
to a certain extent. One needs only to examine the header of a message
|
|||
|
originating from some microcomputer host which UUCP's it through half a
|
|||
|
dozen Usenet sites, the Internet, and finally to its BITNET destination to
|
|||
|
visualize, quite realistically, a phone number tagged onto the end of the
|
|||
|
originating userid.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
With digital technology advancing at its current rate, the possibilities
|
|||
|
are endless. It is for these reasons that the private computer security
|
|||
|
profession (at its current size) is only a short-term success sparked by
|
|||
|
mass press-generated hysteria, and blatant disinformation. The computer
|
|||
|
security profession did not receive its recognition from the voices of
|
|||
|
concerned individuals or even gluttonous corporations: it received the
|
|||
|
necessary attention and nurturing due to the paranoias of a corrupt
|
|||
|
military-minded government which knows exactly what it keeps on its systems
|
|||
|
and exactly why no one else must. You see, its a matter of 'national'
|
|||
|
security! Any good real hacker who has been around a few nets knows this.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The time will come when a hacker will sit down at his terminal to hack a
|
|||
|
computer somewhere far away. This hacker might dial up a local network
|
|||
|
such as Tymnet or Telenet and connect to a computer somewhere. That remote
|
|||
|
computer's standard issue security drivers will sense an intrusion (user
|
|||
|
John Doe calling form a network address originating in California which is
|
|||
|
inconsistent with Mr. Doe's schedule,) request the network's CLID result,
|
|||
|
and forward the information directly to Mr. Hacker's local police
|
|||
|
department which is, in this day and age, fully equipped with the ability
|
|||
|
to centrally tap telco lines (data or otherwise.) The expert system at
|
|||
|
the police department verifies that the local data tap is indeed consistent
|
|||
|
with the victim computer's John Doe Session and sends out a dispatch.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Sound like fantasy? Every bit of it is perfectly possible with our
|
|||
|
existing technology, and upon review of the chronology of computer security
|
|||
|
over the last three years, certainly probable.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Data security professionals are as easily replacable by computers as are
|
|||
|
assembly-line workers. In this day (which will be, incidentally, just
|
|||
|
prior to the banning of Orwell's "1984") there will be a small but very
|
|||
|
knowledgeable and powerful group of hackers able to circumvent some of
|
|||
|
these security mechanisms. A group of hackers not large enough to present
|
|||
|
an obvious threat, but powerful enough to give a self-perpetuating
|
|||
|
technological dictatorship and its docile society a nice, re-asserting slap
|
|||
|
on the rear.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
>> END OF THIS FILE <<
|
|||
|
***************************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
------------------------------
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Subject: The Ultimate Interface: Hackers and the Private Sector
|
|||
|
From: Dark Adept
|
|||
|
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 90 22:19 CDT
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
*** CuD #2.09: File 7 of 8: Hackers and the Private Sector ***
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The Ultimate Interface: Hackers and The Private Sector
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
A major problem in Cyberspace is the lack of communication between hackers
|
|||
|
and non-hackers. Corporations are fully entitled to their privacy, and so
|
|||
|
they feel threatened by the hacker "menace." They view the hacker as the
|
|||
|
enemy, and so they persecute him. This is a valid belief since history
|
|||
|
shows that when a group does not understand another group, they try to
|
|||
|
destroy it. Saying this is valid does not make it right. If hackers and
|
|||
|
corporations and security companies and software companies, etc., etc.,
|
|||
|
etc. were to overcome their differences much could be done. By trading
|
|||
|
bits and pieces of knowledge, the two opposing groups could together
|
|||
|
develop revolutionary advances in computing that would benefit all. The
|
|||
|
problem is to get the two groups to trust one another. In some upcoming
|
|||
|
G-Philes and submissions to CuD, I hope to break down this barrier of
|
|||
|
resentment by crossing over the lines of the Underground into the "real"
|
|||
|
world and providing valuable information about systems, security,
|
|||
|
interfacing, etc. from a hacker's/member-of-the-underground's point of
|
|||
|
view. I hope others will follow suit, and that the private sector will
|
|||
|
reciprocate by allowing technical information to flow into the Underground.
|
|||
|
Ultimately, I hope that there will be a rapport between hackers and members
|
|||
|
of the private sector so that we may learn from each other and make the
|
|||
|
best use possible of this greatest of inventions, the computer. Without
|
|||
|
further delay, then, I present the first of what I hope will be a long and
|
|||
|
successful series of articles. These must be short since they are merely
|
|||
|
articles, but I have planned a few full-length works that will be more
|
|||
|
in-depth; I will send them to the CuD archives as they become available. I
|
|||
|
hope you enjoy them.
|
|||
|
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
System Security: Security Levels and Partitioning
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
by The Dark Adept
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Traditionally, security levels are used to prevent a user from gaining
|
|||
|
access to areas where he lacked legitimate interest. They also have
|
|||
|
another very useful purpose that is seldom recognized. They can be used as
|
|||
|
a firewall of sorts to stop the spread of viruses and the destruction of
|
|||
|
files by an intruder. A good analogy of this theory is ship design. When
|
|||
|
a ship is designed, the lower compartments are designed separate from each
|
|||
|
other so that if the hull is punctured, the flooding compartment may be
|
|||
|
sealed off thus localizing the damage and stopping the ship from sinking.
|
|||
|
In the same way accounts should be assigned security levels. However, if
|
|||
|
the accounts are fully isolated from one another, it is too restrictive to
|
|||
|
be of any real use. A user in Accounting would not be able to access the
|
|||
|
records from Personnel to find an employee's rate of pay, for example.
|
|||
|
Optimally, then, one would want a balance between freedom and security.
|
|||
|
This optimal assignment of security levels is accomplished through a
|
|||
|
two-stage step.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The first stage is the creation of generic accounts. Many computer
|
|||
|
systems, such as those of schools, use generic accounts as their sole
|
|||
|
source of security. This is VERY dangerous. By generic accounts, I mean a
|
|||
|
set of basic accounts where each member has certain privileges assigned to
|
|||
|
it that differ from the other members. For example, in schools the
|
|||
|
teachers often receive one type of account, and students another. Besides
|
|||
|
the systems operator's account, these are the only two types of accounts
|
|||
|
available. The teachers have a wide-range of freedoms including being able
|
|||
|
to look into files that don't belong to their department since they can be
|
|||
|
trusted. The students have a limited amount of ability, mostly restricted
|
|||
|
to accessing their files only. But what happens if an intruder grabs a
|
|||
|
teacher's account? You got it, he has access to A LOT of stuff!
|
|||
|
Obviously, this won't do. However, generic accounts are useful if used in
|
|||
|
combination with other devices. This leads to the implementation of the
|
|||
|
second stage: security levels.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Example: Let X, Y, and Z be generic accounts in system S with the
|
|||
|
following maximum abilities:
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
X can access file areas A, B, C, D
|
|||
|
Y can access file areas B, D, J, K
|
|||
|
Z can access file areas B, C, J, L
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Assume some User, u, needs access to file areas B and L alone. Assign him
|
|||
|
account type Z with security modifications such that he may access only
|
|||
|
file areas B and L.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
This results in User u being restricted to the proper file areas, B and L,
|
|||
|
but allows ease of modification later if he needs access to areas C or J.
|
|||
|
It also allows for the greatest amount of security since his account type
|
|||
|
is Z so by definition he cannot access file areas A, D, or K without
|
|||
|
receiving a new account. Therefore, if an intruder takes control of
|
|||
|
account u, he cannot destroy more than areas B and L without modification.
|
|||
|
The most he can modify account u to have access to is areas B, C, J, and L.
|
|||
|
Therefore the damage will be localized to file areas B, C, J, and L. The
|
|||
|
only way he can enter the other areas is to get a new account. This is much
|
|||
|
more difficult than modifying one he already has.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The same sort of setup may be applied to commands, usage times, dialup
|
|||
|
ports, etc. For example, say the editor of a newspaper has account Z that
|
|||
|
has maximum port capability of T, t1, t2, t3 where T is a terminal in his
|
|||
|
office and t1, t2, and t3 are outside lines. At first he is assigned a
|
|||
|
security level that allows access to T only so his account cannot be
|
|||
|
accessed from intruders outside thus stopping someone from deleting all of
|
|||
|
tomorrow's edition. Now, if he must go on location somewhere, it would be
|
|||
|
a simple matter to modify his account to give him access to t1 so he can
|
|||
|
call up and review the submissions. Yet, again, if there exist ports t4,
|
|||
|
t5, etc., these would NEVER be able to access the files since account type
|
|||
|
Z is incapable of being accessed through these ports.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
What follows here is a mathematical model of account partitioning using
|
|||
|
concepts of discrete mathematics. Since this is a text file and cannot use
|
|||
|
graphics characters, some common mathematical symbols must be defined using
|
|||
|
regular characters.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Symbols:
|
|||
|
--------
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
| = "such that" (ordinarily a vertical bar)
|
|||
|
%e% = "is an element of" (ordinarily an emphasized epsilon)
|
|||
|
<==> = "if and only if"
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Model:
|
|||
|
-----
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Let S represent a computer system.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Let S1 be a set of different areas of interest in a computer system. This
|
|||
|
is modelled by S1=%a1,a2,a3,...,an% where n is some integer, and a1,a2,
|
|||
|
a3,... are the areas of interest in S.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Let S2 be a set of different user accounts in a computer system. This is
|
|||
|
modelled by S2=%u1,u2,u3,...,uq% where q is some integer, and u1,u2,
|
|||
|
u3,... are the user accounts in S.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Let x %e% S2. Let y %e% S1. Let r be a relation on S defined as this:
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
xry <==> x %e% S2 | x has access to y.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Now r becomes a partitioning relation on S2. The function that defines r
|
|||
|
is determined by how the operator wants his accounts set up.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Further, the equivalence class of x, [x], defines the generic account.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Example: Say S has accounts u1, and u2. It also has areas of interest a1,
|
|||
|
a2,a3. Now say the operator wants u1 to have access to a1 and a2, and u2 to
|
|||
|
have access to a1 and a3. By defining r in the proper manner he gets:
|
|||
|
r =%(u1,a1), (u1,a2), (u2,a1), (u2,a3)%. Now [u1]=%a1, a2% and
|
|||
|
[u2] = %a2, a3%. Thereby defining the generic accounts.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Now let G be the set of all of the equivalence classes determined by xry
|
|||
|
that define generic accounts in S. This is seen as G=%[x]|x /e/ S2%.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
For clarity, let g1 = [u1], g2 = [u2], ... so we have G=%g1,g2,...gq% where
|
|||
|
q is some integer.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Now let d %e% G. We define w to be a relation as such:
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
dwy <==> d %e% G | d has access to y.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Now w becomes a partitioning relation on G. The function that defines w
|
|||
|
is determined by how the operator wants to implement a generic account
|
|||
|
for a particular user.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Further, the equivalence class of d, [d], defines the specific user
|
|||
|
account.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Example: Say S has generic account g1 set up. It has areas of interest
|
|||
|
a1, a2, and a3. g1 is partitioned in such a way that it can only access a1
|
|||
|
and a3. Now say the operator wants a certain holder of a generic account
|
|||
|
type g1 to have access only to a1. By defining w in the proper manner he
|
|||
|
obtains: w=%(g1,a1)%. Now [g1]=%a1% thereby defining an appropriate user
|
|||
|
account.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
As some may have noticed, accounts can be partitioned ad infinitum. In
|
|||
|
most cases I have found two partitions to be sufficient. An interesting
|
|||
|
adaptation is also to use this method to define what users have access to
|
|||
|
which commands. It again allows much room for change while keeping things
|
|||
|
safely separate.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The ultimate safety would come when the first partition is defined in the
|
|||
|
operating/timesharing system itself. For example, if Unix (Tm of AT&T)
|
|||
|
came with say 30 different file areas and accounts accessing those areas in
|
|||
|
specialized ways, then even if an intruder grabbed the root account, he
|
|||
|
could not change the first level of partitioning to access all those
|
|||
|
accounts.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
As I hope I have shown, the proper use of generic accounts and security
|
|||
|
levels allows the optimum balance of security and ability. By properly
|
|||
|
partitioning accounts, the system operator can isolate a problem to a
|
|||
|
relatively small area allowing faster restructuring afterward.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
I hope you have enjoyed this article. I can be reached for comments,
|
|||
|
criticism, and E-mail bombs at Ripco BBS (312)-528-5020. Also, if you
|
|||
|
liked this article, you may comment to Jim Thomas (editor of CuD) and he
|
|||
|
can pass the general reception on to me.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Written 10/21/90 in Chicago, IL -- The Dark Adept
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
>> END OF THIS FILE <<
|
|||
|
***************************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
------------------------------
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
From: P.A.Taylor@EDINBURGH.AC.UK
|
|||
|
Subject: CU in the News: "Hackers" and Bank Blackmail in England
|
|||
|
Date: 24 Oct 90 12:59:34 bst
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
*** CuD #2.09: File 8 of 8: CU in the News: Hackers/English Banks**
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Taken from: "The Independent On Sunday," October 14, '90:
|
|||
|
Mysterious computer experts demand money to reveal how they penetrated
|
|||
|
sophisticated security.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
HACKERS BLACKMAIL FIVE BANKS by Richard Thomson
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
At least four British clearing banks and one merchant bank in the City are
|
|||
|
being blackmailed by a mysterious group of computer hackers who have broken
|
|||
|
into their central computer systems over the last six months. These
|
|||
|
breaches of computer security may be the largest and most sophisticated
|
|||
|
ever among British Banks.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The electronic break-ins which began last May, could cause chaos for the
|
|||
|
banks involved. Once inside their systems, the hackers could steal
|
|||
|
information or indulge in sabotage, such as planting false data or damaging
|
|||
|
complex computer programs.It is unlikely, however, they would be able to
|
|||
|
steal money. So far, the hackers have contented themselves with demanding
|
|||
|
substantial sums of money in return for showing the banks how their systems
|
|||
|
where penetrated. None of the banks has yet paid.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The break-ins are evidence of the rapid growth in computer fraud and
|
|||
|
manipulation in Britain. Although most hacking is relatively trivial, the
|
|||
|
latest cases show much sophistication. The hackers have concentrated on
|
|||
|
tapping the banks' electronic switching systems which, among other things,
|
|||
|
control the routing of funds around the world.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Some of the hackers are in contact with each other, but they are believed
|
|||
|
to be operating individually. One computer expert described their level of
|
|||
|
expertise and knowledge of the clearing bank computer systems as "truly
|
|||
|
frightening". They are not believed to have links with organised crime,
|
|||
|
which has become heavily involved in computer hacking in the US over the
|
|||
|
last two to three years.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
It is a severe embarrassment for the banking community which is frightened
|
|||
|
that public awareness of the security breach could undermine public
|
|||
|
confidence. As a result, they have not called in the police but have hired
|
|||
|
a firm of private investigators, Network Security Management, which is
|
|||
|
owned by Hambros Bank and specialises in computer fraud. It is common for
|
|||
|
banks not to report fraud and security failures to the police for fear of
|
|||
|
damaging publicity.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
All the banks approached either denied that they were victims of the
|
|||
|
blackmail attempt or refused to comment. The hunt for the hackers is being
|
|||
|
led by David Price, managing director of NSM, who confirmed his firm was
|
|||
|
investigating computer security breaches at five British banks. "I am
|
|||
|
confident of success in catching the hackers," he said. "The amount of
|
|||
|
information they can get from the banks will vary depending on the computer
|
|||
|
systems and the ways the hackers broke into them," he added. "They could
|
|||
|
go back in and sabotage the systems, but they are not threatening to do
|
|||
|
so."
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The ease with which the hackers appear to have penetrated the systems
|
|||
|
highlights the vulnerability of the computer data. Clearing banks in
|
|||
|
particular rely on huge computer systems to control their operations, from
|
|||
|
cash dispenser payments to massive international transfers of funds.
|
|||
|
Security measures were tightened after a large computer fraud at a leading
|
|||
|
City bank three years ago Although the bank involved was never named, it is
|
|||
|
understood the money was never recovered.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Nevertheless, the speed with which computer technology has developed in the
|
|||
|
last few years has made the detection of security breaches more difficult.
|
|||
|
According to an expert, who recently advised one of the big four clearers
|
|||
|
on its computer systems, there are few people who understand the banks
|
|||
|
system well enough even to detect a break-in.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
Computer-related fraud has boomed over the last decade as businesses have
|
|||
|
come to rely more heavily on electronic information. According to some
|
|||
|
reputable UK and US estimates, up to 5% of the gross national product of
|
|||
|
western economies disappears in fraud. Experts say that the senior managers
|
|||
|
of many companies simply do not appreciate the need for tight security.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The British legal system has been slow to respond. The Computer Misuse Act
|
|||
|
which makes it illegal to access a computer without authorisation, came
|
|||
|
into effect only at the end of August this year.
|
|||
|
(end article)
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The follow-up article (from The Independent on Oct 21), also by Richard
|
|||
|
Thomson, is basically much of the same thing. He quotes a hacker from the
|
|||
|
US who's computer "nom de guerre" is Michael Jordan who makes the following
|
|||
|
points.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
1.One large US bank is notorious for lax security and it has effectively
|
|||
|
become a training ground for hackers.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
2. Guessing passwords is sometimes "absurdly simple", they tend to choose
|
|||
|
words like "Sex, Porsche, or Password"
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
3.Social Engineering techniques are used and he would spend approx 6 weeks
|
|||
|
trying to suss out from a manager's secretary etc. anything he could find
|
|||
|
out that would help him have a better chance of accessing a bank's system.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
The main body of the article is pretty glib; it has the usual stock phrases
|
|||
|
like..."Hackers and Bank employees have always been a danger, but now there
|
|||
|
are signs that yesterdays bank robbers have hung up their sawn-off
|
|||
|
shot-guns and are turning to computers instead." and even more hypey is ...
|
|||
|
" Mr Jordan claims to have been shown pictures of people in organised
|
|||
|
crime.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
"They're East End lads who've become more sophisticated now. I've been told
|
|||
|
that if they ask you to help them and you refuse, it's baseball bats at
|
|||
|
dawn."
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
There's also a discussion of the reliability of fraud figures, a mention of
|
|||
|
how various definitions can exaggerate the actual role played by the
|
|||
|
computer. Detective Chief Superintendent Perry Nove head of the city fraud
|
|||
|
squad defines "computer fraud" as ... "It is when the computer system
|
|||
|
itself is attacked rather than just used to facilitate an offence" The main
|
|||
|
conclusion on the whole area of fraud is "...the subject remains cloaked in
|
|||
|
mythology and mystery.Naturally, no one knows how many frauds are commited
|
|||
|
that are never discovered. Matters are further obscured because banks
|
|||
|
fearful of bad publicity, sometimes do not report frauds to the police- a
|
|||
|
situation that Mr Nove accepts with resignation. There is general agreement
|
|||
|
among hackers and other experts that it is more widespread and more
|
|||
|
sophisticated in the US, that it is growing in Britain, but that British
|
|||
|
Banks are more secure than those in America and the Continent. That is
|
|||
|
about as reliable as the detailed information gets."
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
I hope I've summed up the general tone of the whole article, it was in the
|
|||
|
business section of The Independent On Sunday, 21st Oct. The paper's
|
|||
|
normally a very good one, so the generally bad coverage this bloke Thomson
|
|||
|
gave to the subject of hacking, and the amount of what I'd call "casual
|
|||
|
empiricism" he used to back up his arguments, is sadly probably indicative
|
|||
|
of what the CU is up against in the way of ignorance and bad reporting. I
|
|||
|
thought it was quite ironic that he recognised the role of mystery and
|
|||
|
mythology, since he seemed to be doing his best to add to it. Finally, if
|
|||
|
he'd of mentioned the word expert once more ..grrrrrrr.... Cheers for now,
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
P.A.T.
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
------------------------------
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
**END OF CuD #2.09**
|
|||
|
********************************************************************
|
|||
|
|
|||
|
|