376 lines
14 KiB
Plaintext
376 lines
14 KiB
Plaintext
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Original Message Date: 28 Oct 91 13:39:20
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From: Maynard Riley on 1:115/678
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To: Tom Jennings on 1:1/1
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Subj: suspect situation
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Tom,
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My name is Maynard Riley; I'm officiating an election for NC in Chicago <20>
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Net 115.
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Joel Veeneman and Lew Prather are the run-off candidates in the second <20>
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round of voting.
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Rick Thelen is a local SWASHy (SWASHnet NC around here I understand) who <20>
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has sent the following message via netmail to other SWASHnet members who <20>
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are also in FidoNet.
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Rick's message espouses that you support Joel's position against <20>
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discrimination against sysops with affiliations in other networks. (Joel <20>
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is local RC in some other network, not SWASH). However, Rick's message is <20>
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worded to appear that you support his views against "banishment" as listed.
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Rick is incorrect when he says that there is current discussion on the <20>
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"banishment" issues. The only such discussion in progress has been one <20>
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where folks are discussing measures to keep underage kids from viewing <20>
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inappropriate GIFs.
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I would appreciate your response to this situation.
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~-Maynard Riley
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Rick's message follows::::::
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* Originally by Rich Thelen, 1:115/904
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* Originally dated 28 Oct 1991, 10:52
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The election for NET115 NC was held and a runoff will be required.
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Joel Veeneman - 16 votes
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Lew Prather - 14 votes
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Andy Lester - 10 votes
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We can expect most of the Lester votes to go to Prather, so your vote is <20>
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needed more than ever. There will be sweeping changes to the politics of <20>
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the net if Lew is elected. For instance, the following things are <20>
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actively being discussed:
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1. Banish all nodes who carry adult GIFs or adult material
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2. Banish all nodes who carry pirate files
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3. Banish any nodes who supports illegal behaviour of any kind
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4. Banish nodes who carry software un-protects
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5. Make it difficult or near impossible for new nodes who are part
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of other nets from joining Fido.
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Remember, they have already banished one node because he was in another <20>
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net. It could have happened to anyone, even you.
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Joel Venneman is opposed to this witch hunting fever and will not tolerate <20>
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it to exist while he is NC. The founder of Fido [Tom Jennings] and George <20>
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Peace both support Joel's policies. He will need your vote to be able to <20>
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end the witch hunting.
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Vote for Joel Veeneman. I have included a ballot if you did not get one. <20>
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Voting closes Nov. 2 1991. Please vote.
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========================================================================
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Original Message Date: 29 Oct 91 13:38:56
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From: tom jennings on 1:1/1
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To: maynard riley on 1:115/678
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Subj: chicagoland
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^AINTL 1:115/678 1:1/1
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Thanks for writing me!!! Oh, how I hate this sort of thing... not just
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the using my name bit, but the whole concept of "banishment". Violent
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thoughts come to mind...
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Did you cc: Georce Peace? He gets tons of stuff, so you should get the
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gist of the problem into (literally) one sentence ... "You are quoted
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as supporting an NC-candidates position; did you do this? Text
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follows" etc ...
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I do thank you 1,000,000 X for sending me the message... if I sound
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angry I am, but not at you!!!!!! You can remain anonymous if you so
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desire, since I realize you have to live with idiots like this, but
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making it all public usually works better... your call.
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The message I'm delivering follows separately.
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---
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Could you please confirm receipt of this message ASAP? What are its
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chances for getting to thje other nodes in your net if I send one for
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every node to 115/0? (ie will they host route properly). Can you get
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copies out to them?
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Original Message Date: 29 Oct 91 13:41:04
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From: tom jennings on 1:125/111
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To: Rich Thelen on 1:115/904
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Subj: chicagoland "voting"
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^AINTL 1:115/904 1:125/111
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01/27 > tolerate it to exist while he is NC. The founder of Fido [Tom
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02/27 > Jennings] and George Peace both support Joel's policies. He
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03/27
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04/27 I have made no statements regarding your local net politics. The
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05/27 above is a fabrication. The ends do *not* justify the means.
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06/27
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07/27 Please forward a complete copy of this explanatory message (27
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08/27 lines) to all recipients of the one in which I am referred to.
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09/27
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10/27 PS:
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11/27
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12/27 Since I was dragged into this against my will, you now get to
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13/27 put up with my opinions:
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14/27
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15/27 > 1. Banish all nodes who ...
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16/27
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17/27 If this is for real, (and how can I tell, with one lie in that
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18/27 message there may have been others) anyone seriously considering
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19/27 "banishing" others simply because they might do something THEY
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20/27 PERSONALLY DON'T APPROVE is amongst the most disgusting,
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21/27 neo-fascist, unAmerican CRAP I've seen in FidoNet yet. So much
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22/27 for communications. It shows a complete lack of the most basic
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23/27 kind of civilization -- respect for others, EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T
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24/27 AGREE WITH THEM.
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25/27
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26/27 I will shine the light of the public eye on any such large-scale
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27/27 thug behavior I see in FidoNet.
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Original Message Date: 02 Nov 91 05:40:50
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From: Maynard Riley on 1:115/678
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To: tom jennings on 1:125/111
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Subj: Re: no file(s) attached!
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TJ> Did you cc: Georce Peace?
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Copy to George was identical to that sent to you. No reply yet.
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TJ> Could you please confirm receipt of this message ASAP?
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This (direct) message, and the routed one, came in side-by-side. Thank you <20>
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for your time and consideration.
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TJ> What are its chances for getting to thje other nodes
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TJ> in your net if I send one for every node to 115/0? (ie
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TJ> will they host route properly). Can you get copies out
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TJ> to them?
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I can arrange to copy your message here to anyone you wish. Hub-routing <20>
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here is working. Not everyone will need one, because the message which <20>
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used your name was travelling in netmail. I do have the cc: list to that <20>
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message.
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~-Maynard
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--- Sirius 1.0ya
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* Origin: chicagOO's nOOrthern cOOst (FidoNet 1:115/678)
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Original Message Date: 02 Nov 91 05:51:54
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From: Maynard Riley on 1:115/678
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To: tom jennings on 1:125/111
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Subj: Re: no file(s) attached
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> 17/27 If this is for real, (and how can I tell, with one lie in that
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> 18/27 message there may have been others) anyone seriously considering
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> 19/27 "banishing" others simply because they might do something THEY
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> 20/27 PERSONALLY DON'T APPROVE is amongst the most disgusting,
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> 21/27 neo-fascist, unAmerican CRAP I've seen in FidoNet yet. So much
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> 22/27 for communications. It shows a complete lack of the most basic
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> 23/27 kind of civilization -- respect for others, EVEN WHEN YOU DON'T
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> 24/27 AGREE WITH THEM.
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No disagreement on this, Tom. The author of the message I sent you was not <20>
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advocating banishment; rather he rails against it, and makes long litanies <20>
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about first amendment freedoms. The problem is that he's using it all to <20>
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support his right to engage in illegal activities.
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It boils down to one simple question:
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Can FidoNet tolerate "pirate" systems which are known to engage in the <20>
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transfer of files in violation of license agreements, and other illegal <20>
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activities ?
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I get so tired of hearing the excuse that "I didn't pay the license fee, <20>
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so I'm not violating anything by letting you pick up a copy of this."
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~-Maynard
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--- Sirius 1.0ya
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* Origin: chicagOO's nOOrthern cOOst (FidoNet 1:115/678)
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Original Message Date: 02 Nov 91 06:37:44
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From: Maynard Riley on 1:115/678
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To: Tom Jennings on 1:125/111
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Subj: question of ethics
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* Forwarded by: Maynard Riley on 02 Nov 91 at 06:44
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* Original to: George Peace of 1:270/101
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George,
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Referring to a message which I sent to you (at 1/0) on 10/28 wherein I <20>
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copied a message being netmailed around behind an election I'm overseeing <20>
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for NC in Net 115,
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wherein the author used your name and a first amendment stance to state <20>
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opposition to what he called "banishment" of systems,
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as a protection of his "right" to:
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"carry pirate files" and
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"support illegal behavior of any kind"
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I'd appreciate your response to this situation.
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~-Maynard Riley
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--- Sirius 1.0ya
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* Origin: chicagOO's nOOrthern cOOst (FidoNet 1:115/678)
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Original Message Date: 02 Nov 91 14:40:38
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From: Joel Veeneman on 1:115/639
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To: Tom Jennings on 1:125/111
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Subj: Othernet affiliation/ Net 115 issue
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^AMSGID: 1:115/639@fidonet 990e5413
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Tom -
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I am the local net 115 candidate for whom Rich Thelen (1:115/904) wrote <20>
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the letter you quoted (I received your response today). Although I had <20>
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nothing
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to do with the creation of the letter, and it's obvious that some parts of
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Rich's letter are complete misrepresentations, I thought you might want to
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know the circumstances which prompted the creation of the letter.
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Earlier this year, a sysop named Adam Lyons (a teenager in suburban <20>
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Chicago) was admitted to Fidonet, after successful completion of the very <20>
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few requirements we have here - minimum technical compliance and a valid <20>
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phone number are about all that's needed here. Very soon after his <20>
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entrance, a policy complaint was filed against Adam by aother sysop, Steve <20>
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Levinthal, complaining that Adam was using the address of an othernet <20>
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(known as Swashnet) to connect with Steve while transferring Fidonet <20>
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echomail. Steve's complaint stated that the fact that Adam belonged to an <20>
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organization rumored to have dealings in software piracy and other illegal <20>
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acts constituted excessively annoying behavior, especially when evidence <20>
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of such affiliation was used in Fidonet transfers. N115C Jerry Callahan <20>
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agreed with Steve, and removed Adam from the nodelist. A number of 115 <20>
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sysops, including Rich and myself, were rather distraught at that <20>
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decision, and counseled Adam to appeal the decision to R11C, Mark Lynch. <20>
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Mark overturned the decision, and directed Jerry to reinstate Adam under a <20>
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different HUB, so that Steve would not be in direct contact with Adam. <20>
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[For informational purposes, I am now Adam's HUB].
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As a result of the controversy surrounding this issue, the net has <20>
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essentially split onto two factions: one supporting the NC's decision, the <20>
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other supporting the RC's. As Jerry is now retiring from the NC post, the <20>
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two remaining candidates (we are now in an election runoff) represent each <20>
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side of this issue.
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I was distraught when I was forwarded a copy of the letter Rich wrote, as <20>
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I knew that Rich had probably not contacted you or George Peace, and so <20>
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therefore was in error in using your names in the letter. I feel some <20>
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responsibility for the appearance of the letter, as it was designed to aid <20>
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my chances of winning the election, so I offer you my humblest personal <20>
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apologies for the use of your name. I feel it is important, however, that <20>
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you know the facts behind this issue, and, if you loke, I will be more <20>
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than happy to keep you up-to-date on this issue as it unfolds.
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Thanks much for your attention,
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Joel Veeneman
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1:115/639@fidonet
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Original Message Date: 02 Nov 91 15:02:55
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From: Rich Thelen on 1:115/904
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To: tom jennings on 1:125/111
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Subj: NET115
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^AMSGID: 1:115/904 990ee7c7
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> 01/27 > tolerate it to exist while he is NC. The founder of
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> Fido [Tom
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> 02/27 > Jennings] and George Peace both support Joel's
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> policies. He
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> 03/27
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> 04/27 I have made no statements regarding your local net
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> politics. The
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> 05/27 above is a fabrication. The ends do *not* justify the
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> means.
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You have my apology for insinuating that you had chosen sides. The
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text is a little ambiguous, but my intention was to state that your <20>
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position (well known from FidoNews) was similar to Joel's.
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> 06/27
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> 07/27 Please forward a complete copy of this explanatory
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> message (27
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> 08/27 lines) to all recipients of the one in which I am
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> referred to.
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I have carried this out except for those who received unauthorized copies <20>
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of my original private netmail transmission (whose identities I am not <20>
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aware of). The original addresses have received a copy.
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> 09/27
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> 10/27 PS:
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> 11/27
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> 12/27 Since I was dragged into this against my will, you now
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> get to
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> 13/27 put up with my opinions:
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> 14/27
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> 15/27 > 1. Banish all nodes who ...
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> 16/27
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> 17/27 If this is for real, (and how can I tell, with one lie in
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> that
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> 18/27 message there may have been others) anyone seriously
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> considering
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> 19/27 "banishing" others simply because they might do something
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> THEY
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> 20/27 PERSONALLY DON'T APPROVE is amongst the most disgusting,
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> 21/27 neo-fascist, unAmerican CRAP I've seen in FidoNet yet. So
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> much
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> 22/27 for communications. It shows a complete lack of the most
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> basic
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> 23/27 kind of civilization -- respect for others, EVEN WHEN YOU
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> DON'T
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> 24/27 AGREE WITH THEM.
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> 25/27
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> 26/27 I will shine the light of the public eye on any such
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> large-scale
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> 27/27 thug behavior I see in FidoNet.
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I thank you for agreeing with this principle so completely. I am sorry <20>
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that you had to be dragged into this fight. It certainly was not my <20>
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intention. My reference to your name and views was to your own public <20>
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statements. I am sorry that the ambiguity misled anyone.
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Rich Thelen
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115/904
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Original Message Date: 03 Nov 91 08:11:35
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From: Rick Moore on 1:115/333
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To: tom jennings on 1:125/111
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Subj: Net 115 bullshit
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^AMSGID: 1:115/333 2913fa5a
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cc: Maynard Riley
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Hi, Tom. Since I happen to be a member of net 115, I thought I could add <20>
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a little information to what you have heard so far.
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Neither Lew Prather (the newly elected NC) nor Jerry Callahan (the current <20>
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NC) has EVER called for the bannishment of ANYONE, regardless of <20>
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provocation. Period. Lew campaigned on a minimalist, <20>
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non-interventionist platform - it is indeed comical that the letter you <20>
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were shown supported a candidate that wants to substantially increase the <20>
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activities of the NC (read bureaucracy, at least to me) including <20>
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dropping boards from the nodelist that do not live up to his standards (to <20>
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paraphrase of his words).
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Since you are pretty familar with my views on the desirability of anarchy <20>
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in FidoNet, you can be sure you will hear from me if any NC in net 115 <20>
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ever decides to do anything like Richard Thelan assuses Lew Prather of <20>
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wanting to do. Fortunately for us, now that Lew has been elected, you <20>
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can rest assured that nothing whatever of this sort will occur as long as <20>
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Lew is NC.
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Rick
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