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F I D O N E W S Volume 17, Number 05 31 Jan 2000
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
| The newsletter of the | ISSN 1198-4589 Published by: |
| FidoNet community | "FidoNews" |
| _ | 1-717-732-6820 1:270/720 |
| / \ | |
| /|oo \ | |
| (_| /_) | |
| _`@/_ \ _ | |
| | | \ \\ | Editor: Douglas Myers, 1:270/720 |
| | (*) | \ )) | DougM@paonline.com |
| |__U__| / \// | |
| _//|| _\ / | |
| (_/(_|(____/ | |
| (jm) | Newspapers should have no friends. |
| | -- JOSEPH PULITZER |
+----------------------------+---------------------------------------+
Fidonews welcomes Frank Vest as the newest staff member. In his
article this week, he's "not promising that this will be a regular
thing..." which clearly indicates that he's hooked now :)
Thanks to all the contributors this week for an outstanding issue!
Table of Contents
1. EDITORIAL ................................................ 1
Freedom of the Press ..................................... 1
2. GUEST EDITORIAL .......................................... 3
If you can't take the heat ............................... 3
3. LETTERS TO THE EDITOR .................................... 5
Bully for the Editor! .................................... 5
Is There Support for MAC? ................................ 8
This is a HOBBY! ......................................... 9
4. ARTICLES ................................................. 13
Protocols or Communications? ............................. 13
This weeks Web Page ...................................... 13
5. COLUMNS .................................................. 15
Ol'WDB's Column .......................................... 15
6. NET HUMOR ................................................ 17
Barn Insurance ........................................... 17
Screwing ................................................. 17
7. COMIX IN ASCII ........................................... 18
When people MOO .......................................... 18
8. INTERNET INFO ............................................ 19
Fidonet-related sites .................................... 19
9. FIDONEWS INFO ............................................ 23
Masthead ................................................. 23
Fidonews Index for 2000 (so far) ......................... 24
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 1 31 Jan 2000
=================================================================
EDITORIAL
=================================================================
Freedom of the Press
Doug Myers
This week's editorial was inspired by Ross Cassell's guest
editorial. But let me make it clear that I don't think that Ross
seeks to abridge the principle of a Free Press. Nor is it a proper
response to Ross's editorial; for what it's worth, I mostly agree
with him. Rather, it's an attempt on my part to explain to the
readers here how I view the concept of Freedom of the Press, and why
such freedom might be extended to the clearly unpopular views of
Charles Hunter (apparently the real name of "Mike," who complains of
persecution at the hands of Fidonet).
The principle of Freedom of the Press has never, despite some
opinion to the contrary, guaranteed the right of anyone to say
anything they like in a publication. In countries where Freedom of
the Press is a strong tradition, you will still find publications
which are selective in what they publish. One wouldn't expect to
have an article advocating increased military spending in "the
liberal press," nor an article advocating increased social services
in a "conservative newsletter." Nor anything not mentioning pigs in
Doc Logger's cherished Swine Herders' Weekly.
Freedom of the Press is traditionally interpreted to mean that
private publications are free from government control.
This distinction is blurred in Fidonet because Fidonews was started
by that private organization's founder at a time when he considered
Fidonet to be without any form of government. Though the
Coordinator structure has evolved (not without argument) into a
governing structure since that time, I don't think that there's ever
been an effort to control the contents of Fidonews. Shall we say
that Freedom of the Press is a strong tradition in Fidonet?
So recently your editor finds in his email an article by Charles
Hunter, claiming persecution at the hands of Fidonet. Does he
strike your editor as one who's story simply must be heard, either
because it has merit or because the free press nature of Fidonews
demands that it be printed? Or should the article be rejected
because the author is not a Fidonet sysop or because the point of
view might upset some?
Actually, neither extreme determined publication or rejection of the
article. Certainly, I didn't think that Charles (or "Mike" or
whatever) had a strong argument, and his tendency towards legal
threats predisposed me to just delete the message to begin with.
Nor did I consider whether he was a Fidonet sysop or not - I feel
there are many who are not sysops who make positive contributions to
Fidonet, and this publication is for them also.
So why did he get published? Well, it was a slow day for news...
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 2 31 Jan 2000
... and I did consider that there was some content of interest to
Fidonews readers. Like it or not, the expectation that the Sysops
and Moderators of Fidonet should control what's posted here is
strong with many, and should be vocalized from time to time... if
only to repudiate the notion.
Had I rejected Charles article, it would have been over his legal
threats, as I don't believe Freedom of the Press involves inviting
lawsuits. However, I didn't reject Charles article mostly because I
_do_ believe that my own personal opinion of a point of view
shouldn't weigh on it's acceptance; because I didn't consider his
lawsuit talk to be an immediate threat; and mostly because his own
words expose the fanaticism behind them.
So here's Charles (or "Mike" or whomever) having his brief fling on
the stump. I ask the readers to hear him out, because I believe his
own words damn him to rejection more firmly than any editorial
suppression I could justify.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 3 31 Jan 2000
=================================================================
GUEST EDITORIAL
=================================================================
If you cant take the heat, stay out of the kitchen
==================================================
In a recent issue of Fidonews, our esteemed editor allowed a
non-Fidonet person to submit an article to air a greviance regarding
his treatment in a Fidonet Message Echo. This persons name is
Charles Hunter, any Fidonet sysop whom has lurked around the
ABORTION, HOLYSMOKE or ASAKACOP echoes knows all to well what
Charles temprament is like.
While the situation has grown deeper since its inception, most of
this started over Charles Hunter objecting to an email address
another user posted within the signature line of this users
messages. Charles being to whatever degree, 'religious', literally
was having a fit in the ABORTION echo over Steve Kemps Email address
which was or is: jesusonacid@yahoo.com. As I said, it was giving
Charles fits, eventually the echo moderator clamped down, but not
before enough anomosity between them two existed for it to spill
over into other echoes and then compound itself from that point
onwards.
User or Sysop, Charles simply could have used his next key or a twit
filter if he felt that strong that an email addy such as it was was
going to destroy the existence of his LORD and SAVIOR if it fell
upon his eyes.
Charles earned himself a lifetime ban from the ABORTION echo for
various comments made to the then moderator, which included lawsuit
threats, of course since the ban, the former moderator, current
moderator and Steve Kemp have been threatened with a lawsuit.
Now he is whining about how he was or is being treated in the
HOLYSMOKE echo.. Anyone being in FIDONET for any length of time
knows this echo is a free for all like say FLAME or similiar type
echoes. Charles Hunter willingly followed Steve Kemp into this echo
and now is crying foul.
Charles should have removed himself from those areas that are now
distressing him. He is his own best worst enemy.
Throughout this entire scene, this sysop admits ganging up on him in
this echo, to show how stupid he is behaving. Charles has been
threatening everyone with lawsuits, he has even been threatening the
very sysops that give him access to Fidonet with lawsuits. When I
told him that I was going to suggest to these sysops that they
consider banning him to protect their interests, he sent me a email
threatening me with a lawsuit.
We wont talk about how he doesnt have a solitary case for one and we
certainly wont talk about his incompetence in operating his mail
reader. Like we really need to see the same message from him 4 times
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 4 31 Jan 2000
or seeing messages he addresses to himself?
This sysop believes that Fidonews is not the proper forum for a
non-Fidonet person to address a grievance even if the grievance is
frivolous? Charles Hunters avenues for greviance lies with the
conference moderators and the sysops of the BBS's he uses, those
sysops can make a presentation to the snooze on his behalf if they
so choose. Furthermore Charles doesnt own the machines that run the
BBS's he uses, the sysops whom run these BBS's do so at their
pleasure for sake of a hobby and not to only serve Charles
interests. There is no room in this hobby for anyone whom wants to
threaten legal action everytime someone says 'boo'!
To Steal a Quote from Dennis Miller:
" This is just my opinion, I could be wrong "
Ross Cassell
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 5 31 Jan 2000
=================================================================
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR
=================================================================
Bully for the Editor!
Response to Editorial
Email from "Mike"
chasers1@intergrafix.net
ch> Thanks for your response. I appreciate you may not agree with
ch> some of it; and that is certainly your perogative. However,
ch> maybe your disagreement is because I wasn't specific enough.
ch> Care to discuss the points you disagree with? I'm open to have
ch> you prove me wrong. (Grin) Having someone to intelligently
ch> discuss the matter with would certainly be a treat.
dm> I disagreed on three points, one of which may change over more
dm> specific information. I'll just list them here, as I already
dm> wrote an editorial discussing them at length... what the hell,
dm> I'll send you and advance copy of the editorial. That gives
dm> you a chance to offer rebuttal in the same issue :)
> ----------
>
> Bullies
> Doug Myers
> Sunday Morning I received an article from "Mike" (full name not
> given) on "The Bullies of Fidonet." It's an article I don't
> fully agree with - but since Fidonews should be open to all
> viewpoints, I publish it without regret. The free press nature
> of Fidonews, however, does not prevent me (nor anyone else)
> from presenting an opinion on the issue, however.
> First of all, I sympathize with Mike in his plight. I would
> imagine that he really is receiving all the unkind messages he
> says he is. I'm not following the particular conferences he
> cites nor the discussion in progress, but the arguments between
> pro-life and pro-choice on abortion matters isn't exactly new
> nor confined to the conferences on Fidonet. My own experience
> has been that both extreme positions in this argument have
> accumulated their share of unreasonable proponents so that
> rational public discussion is impossible.
Actually, the complained of messages have very little to do with the
subject matter of the Abortion conference. A poster to that
conference, with a reportedly long history of being harassing, and
annoying in various conferences in Fidonet was using a addy in his
messages that stated: mailto:jesusonacid@yahoo.com which does not
appear to be a n actual email addres. It is irrelevant anyway
whether it is an actual email address. Admittedly, there was little
I could do about him posting that email address in messages to all
or others. However, because he knew that the email address was
offensive to me to the point of intentionally inflicting emotional
distress he set out upon a campaign to harass me generally and in
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 6 31 Jan 2000
the religious sense by sending numerous repeated messages to me
containing that awful email address; and he did so in total
disregard of my demands that he cease and desist claiming a "free
speech" right to do so.
He then moved to the Bible conference where he was told that his
messages which contained such offensive terms were not welcome. He
then moved to the HolySmoke conference where I have never been a
participant. There he started to post defamatory and untrue
statements about me. I posted a warning and defense telling him to
stop posting untrue, defamatory, harassing messages to or about me
and he set out to assault me with repeated, vulgar, religiously
harassing and harassing, defamatory/slanderous/libelous messages
directed to my address and posted in the international conference
known as "holysmoke". Many of his freinds joined in with equally
offensive comments and messages.
The incidents above have nothing to do with "rational public
discussion" and everything to do with the posting of messages with
no value other than religious harassment, harassment,
defamation/slander/libel in the face of a demand to the writers,
moderators, zone managers that they cease and desist. In other
words, FidoNet was put on NOTICE of these improper messages and at
that point had a duty to take action to stop/control such messages.
In addition, I posted several civil and criminal statutes which
clearly demonstrated the liability of the posters, the sysops and
Fidonet.
> What's unclear from Mike's account is how much he contributed
> to situation which led to his bannings and heated responses. I
> wouldn't expect him to report that he went into the discussions
> with an attitude and drew response in kind from his
> counterparts on the other extreme of the issue, but it does
> seem more reasonable a scenario that that he joined the
> conference posting sweetness and light and received personal
> attacks from the forces of evil.
The initial attacks on me were not brought on by me unless you want
to consider a simple request that someone not post to or about me
with religiously harassing statements or addys. I did not go to
Holysmoke to participate. I went there only to defend myself once I
was made aware that false, defamatory/slanderous/libeous statements
were being made about me.
> Here are two areas where Mike's case against Fidonet is clearly
> weak, though. (1) He holds Fidonet Sysops and Moderators
> responsible for controlling messages he finds offensive, and
> (2) he threatens legal action.
That may be considered weak in terms of how Fidonet views these
matters; but it is NOT weak in terms of the law or common decency.
Why Fidonet would want to condone a conference like HolySmoke is
beyond me; but that's not my gripe. My gripe is that unscrupled
people can enter the conference and being posting clearly tortious
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 7 31 Jan 2000
and illegal messages about me without any action from Fidonet or
it's personnel, sysops. Likewise when a similarly vulgar zone
coordinator can post similar messages about me and incite others to
post messages (along with his own) to my sysops to get my access
cut. By the way, I have just been informed by my main BBS sysop
that if I get booted from one more conference he is going to cut my
access.
> If the decline of Fidonet is predicated on Sysops and
> Moderators controlling messages to the extent of not offending
> anyone, then we may as well throw in the towel now. Folks can
> take offense at _anything_ and frequently do. Controlling ones
> own reaction to offense has always been necessary for public
> interaction, and is hardly new to Fidonet. I doubt that this
> requirement has led to the decline of Fido.
Controlling one's own reaction to Offense? To outright religious
harassment, harassment, slander, libel, defamation in conferences
that I did not elect to participate in? I think not. These matters
are not "anything". They constitute violations of law, which even
in the light of the current laws create clear legal liability on the
part of Fidonet and it's sysops. Even the immunity afforded
newspapers and broadcasters does not apply when the said newspapers
and broadcasters were made aware of the defamation and continued to
publish/broadcast it.
> Yes, moderators have taken steps over the years to restrict
> posting which goes out of its way to be offensive, but the
> effort is normally directed towards the smooth flow of
> conversation in the echo. Participants who take offense
> frequently to the statements of others and expect moderator
> action in each case have frequently found themselves removed
> from the conference on the basis that their complaints are just
> as disruptive as the offensive posting. Which is worse: one
> who goes out of his way to be offensive, or one who goes out of
> his way to be offended?
How does someone go out of his way to be offended? Am I expected to
allow someone to defame/libel/slander me in an international echo? I
think not. Do I have to be harassed and religiously harassed? I
think not.
> Threatening legal action is the lowest form of echo behavior,
> in my opinion. First of all, it is seldom seriously intended
> nor practical and, as such, is only intended as bluff and
> bravado.
This is not a case of bluff or bravado. The legal actions are
already being put into motion; and whether Fidonet becomes involved
depends upon how and when Fidonet handles the present situation.
> However, it's the biggest conversation killer around. What
> echo participant would want to cope with legal action over
> conversations which are supposed to be a pastime? Defending
> against even a trivial legal matter would impose more expense
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 8 31 Jan 2000
> and time demands on an individual than he is willing to devote
> to the hobby. In my opinion, threatened legal action gives any
> moderator or sysop the right to drop the threatener.
Single Out someone and expose them to harassment and religious
harassment, defamation/slander/libel is supposed to be a pastime? I
think not. As far as the moderator or sysop, they are subject to
the laws of the state and the United States and civil and criminal
liability.
> Fidonet does need ways to cope with the fact that there are
> going to be less BBSes in the future. Unlike many of the
> optimists, I don't think that trend is going to reverse...
> though I think Fido can survive with a smaller nodelist.
> However, I don't think the discussion is enhanced by taking up
> every grudge which comes down the pike. Sorry, Mike, but I
> think you're going to have to come to terms with the moderators
> and sysops you're arguing with on your own. I don't think
> you'll muster "Fidonet" behind you.
So be it. However, I do think I CAN muster the state and federal
judicial and law enforcement systems behind me. Sorry to be that
blunt; but it would appear that you are merely echoing the pervasive
attitude in Fidonet that lets problems like this arise when a
vulgar, unscrupled atheist or satanist decides to have some fun
attacking other people because of their religious beliefs.
---------------
Editor: You're not being blunt - you're being unreasonable. You're
expecting me to embrace your cause and stop those who would speak
against you while at the same time threatening legal action. I see
no reason to further discuss this with you and possibly give you
something for your attornies to mull over. Have a nice life.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Is There Support for MAC?
Email from Miroslav Ambrus-Kis
<miroslav.ambrus-kis@vecernji-list.tel.hr>
Pardon for appearence :-)
Seems that Fidonet ozrganization is supporting some abandoned
platforms like Atari and Amiga, but doesn't support some living -
like Macintosh is!
Is it only about a (mis)perception, or Macintosh users - unlike
myself - do not care, or even don't suffer the nostalgia about Fido?
These (possibly boring?) remarks are only because an exhaustive
search for up-to-date Macintosh OLR software gave me the only usefult
information: your mail address.
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 9 31 Jan 2000
Please, give me at least some hints or URL-s for connection between
Macintosh and Fidonet based BBS sofware.
Sorry to bother...
---------------
Editor: You're no bother :) Unfortunately, I have no personal
knowledge of Macintosh software availability, but maybe one of the
readers of Fidonet does.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This is a HOBBY!
Response to Editorial
Netmail from Roy J. Tellason, 1:270/615
Consider this a "letter to the editor" and feel free to publish
it...
* Reply to a message in FIDONEWS.
FidoNews Robot wrote in a message to All:
FR> ================================================================
FR> EDITORIAL
FR> ================================================================
FR> Bullies
FR> Doug Myers
FR> Sunday Morning I received an article from "Mike" (full name not
FR> given) on "The Bullies of Fidonet." It's an article I don't
FR> fully agree with - but since Fidonews should be open to all
FR> viewpoints, I publish it without regret. The free press nature
FR> of Fidonews, however, does not prevent me (nor anyone else)
FR> from presenting an opinion on the issue, however.
FR> First of all, I sympathize with Mike in his plight. I would
FR> imagine that he really is receiving all the unkind messages he
FR> says he is. I'm not following the particular conferences he
FR> cites nor the discussion in progress, but the arguments between
FR> pro-life and pro-choice on abortion matters isn't exactly new
FR> nor confined to the conferences on Fidonet. My own experience
FR> has been that both extreme positions in this argument have
FR> accumulated their share of unreasonable proponents so that
FR> rational public discussion is impossible.
Agreed. Or at least very difficult... :-)
FR> What's unclear from Mike's account is how much he contributed
FR> to situation which led to his bannings and heated responses.
I don't think that's particularly relevant, though.
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 10 31 Jan 2000
FR> I wouldn't expect him to report that he went into the
FR> discussions with an attitude and drew response in kind from his
FR> counterparts on the other extreme of the issue, but it does
FR> seem more reasonable a scenario that that he joined the
FR> conference posting sweetness and light and received personal
FR> attacks from the forces of evil.
It doesn't really matter, either way.
FR> Here are two areas where Mike's case against Fidonet is clearly
FR> weak, though. (1) He holds Fidonet Sysops and Moderators
FR> responsible for controlling messages he finds offensive, and
FR> (2) he threatens legal action.
"Case against Fidonet is clearly weak" is simply not strong enough
language for dealing with this. First off, it's been fairly well
established in legal opinion that there are two ways to go with this
sort of a communications medium.
The first one is to provide for the movement of information,
whether it be messages or files or whatever not being particularly
relevant, without exercising much if any say in terms of the
content. I could be a little off on this but I believe that this
makes one a "common carrier".
The other approach is to maintain control over content, and the
legal aspect of this that's probably of most concern to sysops is
that this makes you in effect a "publisher", and puts you in the
position of being completely liable for _ALL_ content on your
system.
I don't know about most sysops, but I carry a fair number of echos
here, some of which seem to run very high in volume, and I don't
read all of these echos, but have them here in terms of stuff that
callers might be interested in. There's simply no way I'd have the
time to do so, I have a hard enough time keeping up with the stuff
I want to read! :-)
The other aspect of this that I have a LARGE problem with is the
threat of legal action. I remember one incident in another net not
all that long ago where somebody did something similar. And there
was no way in hell I'd ever want to associate with somebody who
would do such a thing. In fact, that particular individual
actually called my BBS and addressed this issue, at which point I
simply told them that they'd crossed a line there and that there was
no way they were ever going to un-do what they'd done.
I have no downlinks for fido at this point in time, but if I did,
there's no way that I would care to feed anybody who would express
such a point of view. Do others feel differently about that? Is the
person who's feeding this guy willing to assume that kind of
liability?
This is a HOBBY! And I have absolutely no obligation to deal with
people who would resort to such a threat, much less such tactics.
Nor do they have any "rights" when it comes to feeding from my
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 11 31 Jan 2000
system.
FR> If the decline of Fidonet is predicated on Sysops and
FR> Moderators controlling messages to the extent of not offending
FR> anyone, then we may as well throw in the towel now. Folks can
FR> take offense at _anything_ and frequently do. Controlling ones
FR> own reaction to offense has always been necessary for public
FR> interaction, and is hardly new to Fidonet. I doubt that this
FR> requirement has led to the decline of Fido.
Agreed.
FR> Yes, moderators have taken steps over the years to restrict
FR> posting which goes out of its way to be offensive, but the
FR> effort is normally directed towards the smooth flow of
FR> conversation in the echo. Participants who take offense
FR> frequently to the statements of others and expect moderator
FR> action in each case have frequently found themselves removed
FR> from the conference on the basis that their complaints are just
FR> as disruptive as the offensive posting. Which is worse: one
FR> who goes out of his way to be offensive, or one who goes out of
his way to be offended?
When I last encountered an individual who, for whatever reasons,
found my posts in a certain (technical) echo to be objectionable,
though the moderator and other participants in that echo didn't, I
suggested to him, after seeing complaints by him to the moderator,
that if he really didn't like the way that the echo was run he
should start his own. So he did. I have no idea how it's doing, I
don't carry it here, nor do I participate in it, but he's
presumably less unhappy than he was before.
Isn't that the way it's supposed to work? You don't like something
that's happening, you "vote with your feet"...?
FR> Threatening legal action is the lowest form of echo behavior,
FR> in my opinion. First of all, it is seldom seriously intended
FR> nor practical and, as such, is only intended as bluff and
FR> bravado.
Maybe.
FR> However, it's the biggest conversation killer around. What
FR> echo participant would want to cope with legal action over
FR> conversations which are supposed to be a pastime? Defending
FR> against even a trivial legal matter would impose more expense
FR> and time demands on an individual than he is willing to devote
FR> to the hobby. In my opinion, threatened legal action gives any
FR> moderator or sysop the right to drop the threatener.
Also agreed. It's in effect somebody's way of saying "I can't deal
with you directly, so I'm gonna beat you up with my attorney..."
FR> Fidonet does need ways to cope with the fact that there are
FR> going to be less BBSes in the future. Unlike many of the
FR> optimists, I don't think that trend is going to reverse...
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 12 31 Jan 2000
FR> though I think Fido can survive with a smaller nodelist.
FR> However, I don't think the discussion is enhanced by taking up
FR> every grudge which comes down the pike. Sorry, Mike, but I
FR> think you're going to have to come to terms with the moderators
FR> and sysops you're arguing with on your own. I don't think
FR> you'll muster "Fidonet" behind you.
He sure isn't going to get any support from _this_ sysop!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 13 31 Jan 2000
=================================================================
ARTICLES
=================================================================
Protocols or Communications?
David Hallford 1:211/103
I believe that we are at a crossroads in Fidonet. Which way we turn
will decide Fidonets future.
Are we a network about communications or one about protocols? The
debate rages in some areas. IP only nodes and email only nodes - can
they be members of Fidonet?
The technical standards are fairly clear - If a node flys the IBN
flag and I want to communicate directly with him I need to run BINKD
or ARGUS, if the node flys the ITX flag I need to run TransX. Or
route the netmail to them.
Or should I say that they should run the software that can
communicate with the software I run? What if they really don't have
a need to communicate directly with me? Should I require that they
run software so that *I* can communicate with them if I so desire?
Am I that self-centered? Am I willing to deny Fidonet Membership to
someone because I don't want to have to buy another program when I
can make them buy one?
What is the important issue? The protocol? Or Fidonet?
Who really makes this decision? The Coordinator structure does,if
they allow IP only and email only nodes in the nodelist or not .
Many do. I would like to see the ZC's get together and formalize
this policy. There's only 6 of them with the IC as a chairman so
it should be easy for them to reach a consensus.
To assist them : I am an email only node. I run TransX and have no
phone number in the nodelist. Let the ZCC get together and vote on
whether I should be removed from the nodelist or not. This will at
least clear up the email only node question.
If I disappear from the nodelist you will know that the answer was
"No", but at least Fidonet will have an answer.
Just in case - It's been great being a member of Fidonet. I love the
folks I've met.(physically and electronically) (Yes Roy, this
includes you) and I've had a blast. I've enjoyed each step of the
way and I have learned a lot.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I'm not going to promise that this will be a regular thing, but here
goes. :)
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 14 31 Jan 2000
This weeks Web Page
By Frank Vest
Well, I could start with my page, or my Net or Region's page. Naw...
that'd be too bogus of me. :)
This weeks page is the Region 12 page.
Why? It's good.
Where? http://sparkys.dyndns.org/
What's it got?
Yup, this is the good part. :)
The main page starts out by announcing that it is Fidonet Region 12.
The background is white, covered in a light grey scrip that reads
"Fidonet Region 12". There's an animated "Fidonet" spinning and a
Canadian flag "flying in the breeze". Love the dog on the opposite
side of the page. :)
Just below is a link to an article that appeared in a recent
Fidonews. Then you come to the "meat" of the page. There are links
to R12 News, Fidonews, Files, Fidonet links and telnet links. Of
course, there's a "Guest Book" as well (gotta get me one of those.
:) There's an E-Mail address to the R12C and R12EC also. The page is
also a member of a "Web Ring" and has the banner for that.
The one thing that stands out to me is the Net BBS Lists for the
Region. The time was taken to make a list for each Net in the
Region. Each Net is listed and linked to a page that shows the "BBS
List" for that Net. You'll find them just below the E-Mail addresses
for the RC and REC. Along side the Net BBS Lists are links to some
Fidonet articles of interest.
I did notice that the "Hit Counter" is a little low. :( Of course,
you readers of this article can fix that, right? <G>
All in all, this is a nice page. Informative without being cramped.
Please check it out.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 15 31 Jan 2000
=================================================================
COLUMNS
=================================================================
Ol'WDB's Column
wdbonner@pacbell.net
A lil' poem, author unknown, slightly reworded to
be apropos to today's foreboding naysayers...
HOW DO YOU LIVE YOUR FIDO-NET DASH?
I read of a man who stood to speak
At the funeral of his dear friend, Fido.
He referred to the dates on a head-stone
of Fido from the beginning...to the end.
He noted that first came Fido's date of birth
And spoke the following date with tears,
But he said what mattered most of all
Was the DASH between those years (1984 - 2000)
For that little DASH represents all the time
That Fido has spent alive on earth...
And now only those who loved Fido
Know what that little DASH is worth.
For it matters not, how much we own
The cars...the house...the cash,
What matters is how we live and love
And how we communicate with our DASH.
So think about this long and hard...
Are there things you'd like to change?
For you never know how much time is left,
That can still successfully be rearranged.
If we could just slow down enough
To consider what's true and real,
And always try to understand
The way other people feel.
And be less quick to anger,
And show appreciation more
And love the people in our lives
Like we've never loved before.
If we treat each other with respect,
And more often wear a smile..
Remembering that this special DASH
Might only last a little while.
So, when YOUR eulogy's being read
With your life's actions to rehash...
Would you be PROUD of the things they say
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 16 31 Jan 2000
About how you spent your DASH today?
------Original Author unknown------
*****Coauthor wdbonner
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 17 31 Jan 2000
=================================================================
NET HUMOR
=================================================================
Barn Insurance
Thanks to Roy Reed
rcreedv@juno.com
Larry's barn burned down and his wife, Susan, called the insurance
company.
Susan told the insurance company, "We had that barn insured for
fifty thousand and I want my money."
The agent replied, "Whoa there, just a minute, Susan. Insurance
doesn't work quite like that. We will ascertain the value of what
was insured and provide you with a new one of comparable worth."
There was a long pause before Susan replied, "Then I'd like to
cancel the policy on my husband."
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Screwing
Thanks to Ol'WDB
It's the spring of 1957 and Bobby, a pretty hip guy with his own
car, goes to pick up his date. When he goes to the front door, the
girl's father answers and invites him in. "Carrie's not ready yet,
so why don't you have a seat?" he says.
"That's cool," says Bobby. Carrie's father asks Bobby what they're
planning to do. Bobby replies politely that they will probably just
go to the soda shop or a movie.
Carrie's father responds, "Why don't you two go out and screw? I
hear all the kids are doing it."
Naturally, this comes as quite a surprise to Bobby, so he asks
Carrie's dad to repeat it. "Oh yeah," says Carries father, "our
Carrie really loves to screw. She'd screw all night if we'd let
her!" Well, this makes Bobby's eyes light up, and his plan for the
evening is beginning to look pretty good.
A few minutes later, Carrie comes downstairs in her little poodle
skirt and announces that she's ready to go. Almost breathless with
anticipation, Bobby escorts his date out the front door.
About 20 minutes later, Carrie rushes back into the house, slams the
door behind her, and screams at her father: "DAMN IT, DADDY! IT'S
CALLED THE TWIST!!!"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 18 31 Jan 2000
=================================================================
COMIX IN ASCII
=================================================================
II
( MOOOOOO ! ) II\
________\ / II + (__) ..oo( Hey, there's a cow)
|\ `v' \ + II (00) ( driving that car! )
| \________|____\ \II\ \/-------\
| ( ( @ @ ) ) II + || ||\ (__) ..oo ( How can he )
|\|______\_O_/___| + II ||----|| * (oo) ( afford that?)
| \_______________\ \II\ ~~ ~~ \/--------\
\ (OO_##########_OO) II + || || \
(\(_____[FIDO]_____) + II--+--+--+-II-+--+--+--II+--+--+--+II--
(_) (_) \II II ~~ II~ II
II--+--+--+-II-+--+--+--II+--+--+--+II--
What cows think when people MOO at them
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 19 31 Jan 2000
=================================================================
INTERNET INFO
=================================================================
! = New entries this week
? = not responding
?? = unknown content, doesn't look like fidonet
. -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- .
| FIDONET-RELATED SITES |
` -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- '
Last update: Jan 15, 2000
FidoNet
Homepage: http://www.fidonet.org
FidoNews: http://www.fidonews.org [HTML]
ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/
Echomail links: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html
SDS Files: http://fidobbs.dk/download (Web Access to SDS)
FTSC page: http://www.ftsc.org/
General: http://owls.com/~jerrys/fidonet.html
List server:
http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/fidonet-discussion
Zone 1: http://www.z1.fidonet.org
Region 10: http://www.psnw.com/~net205/region10.html
http://www.tnl-online.com/andy/rgn10.htm
Net 103: http://www.webworldinc.com/club103/
Net 203: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/8687/net203index.html
Region 11: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/region11/
Net 2410: http://oeonline.com/~garyg/net2410/
Region 12: http://sparkys.dyndns.org
Region 13: http://www.net264.org/r13.htm
Net 264: http://www.net264.org/
Net 275: http://www.homershut.net/~mahoover/net275/
Region 14:
Net 282: http://www.rxn.com/~net282/
Region 15: <vacant>
Region 16: <vacant>
Region 17: http://www.nwstar.com/~region17/
Region 18: http://techshop.pdn.net/fido/
Region 19: <Vacant>
Net 124: http://www.startext.net/np/net124
http://texoma.net/~flv
Net 130: http://www.startext.net/homes/net130
Net 393: http://www.chatter.com/~wb/
Zone 1 Elist http://members.xoom.com/echolist/
Zone 2: http://www.z2.fidonet.org
ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/zone2 (Z2 nodelists etc.)
Region 20: http://www.fidonet.pp.se (in Swedish)
Region 23: http://www.fido.dk (in Danish)
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 20 31 Jan 2000
Region 24: http://www.swb.de/personal/flop/gatebau.html (German)
Fido-IP: http://home.nrh.de/fido/ (English/German)
Region 25: http://www.literary.freeserve.co.uk/net2502/
Region 26: http://www.nemesis.ie
REC 26: http://www.nrgsys.com/orb
Region 27: http://telematique.org/ft/r27.htm
Region 29: http://www.rtfm.be/fidonet/ (French)
Region 30: http://www.fidonet.ch (German)
? Region 33: http://www.fidoitalia.net (Italian)
Region 34: http://www.pobox.com/cnb/r34.htm (Spanish)
REC34: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/4552/
Region 36: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/7207/
Region 38: http://public.st.carnet.hr/~blagi/bbs/adriam.html
Region 41: http://www.fidonet.gr (Greek/English)
Region 42: http://www.fido.cz
! Net422: http://www.fido.sk (Slovak/English)
Region 50: http://www.fido7.com/ (Russian)
Net 5010: http://fido.tu-chel.ac.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5015: http://www.fido.nnov.ru/ (Russian)
Net 5030: http://kenga.ru/fido/ (Russian & English)
Net 5049: http://www.n5049.z2.fidonet.org (English/Russian)
?? Net 5085: http://www.fidonet.uz/ (Russian)
Zone 3: http://www.z3.fidonet.org
Zone 4:
Region 80: http://fidobrasil.8m.com (Portuguese)
Region 90:
Net 904: http://members.tripod.com/~net904 (Spanish)
Zone 5: http://www.eastcape.co.za/fidonet/
Zone 6: http://www.z6.fidonet.org
Region 65: http://www.cfido.com/fidonet/cfidochina.html
(Chinese)
Fidonet Via Internet Hubs
See also: http://www.osirusoft.com/fidoip.html
a @ preceding an individual's name implies a virtual email
address. The email is translated as follows
firstlast@osirusoft.com will automatically route to the
appropriate individual's email. Anyone in this list will
also receive routed notice of this feature. In my case, it
would still be joejared@osirusoft.com, but you get the idea.
Also, as information is provided to me, I will be adding a
latency field to each node, which is defined as the maximum
time between when the message is received, and when it is
sent on to other nodes, or available to be sent onward,
defined in minutes. A latency of ! implies that there is an
immediate response, and an attempt to deliver immediately
after processing, or a "MinuteMail System", as it were.
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 21 31 Jan 2000
v-email flag firstnamelastname@osirusoft.com
| email address or
Node# | Operator | Facilities (*) | Speed,| Basic Rate
| | |latency|
-----------+-------------------+----------------+-------+------------
Zone 1 | | | |
10/3 @ Brenda Donovan | FTP,UUE,BinkP | 384K,30| n/c
10/345 @ Todd Cochrane | FTP,BinkP,VMOT | T1,! | n/c
12/12 @ Ken Wilson | FTP | T1 | $24mo.
13/25 @ Jim Balcom | FTP | 56k | $20mo.
103/5 @ Mark Luetger | BinkP | 384k,!| n/c
103/153 @ Michael Box | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
103/301 @ Joe Jared | BinkP,FTP | aDSL,!| n/c
103/401 @ Warren Bonner | BinkP | aDSL,!| n/c
105/8 | Russ Johnson | FTP,BinkP,VMoT | 384k | n/c
105/72 @ Larry James | FTP | aDSL | $50/yr
106/1 @ Matt Bedynek | BinkP, FTP | DS-3,5| $5/$15 mo
106/6018 | Lawrence Garvin | FTP, VMoT | aDSL,60| n/c
107/453 @ Jeffrey Estevez| FTP,BinkP,VMoT,UUE| 56k,60| $10 mo.
140/1 @ Bob Seaborn | FTP,BinkP | T3,30 | $5/$16
167/133 | Stephen Monteith | BinkP | 128k+ | n/c
211/417 @ Korombos | BinkP,UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c
218/109 @ Matt Munson | BinkP,UUE | 33.6k | n/c
244/2 | Kari Suomela | FTP,VMoT,BinkP,UUE| T1,! | $25.00/mo
246/160 @ Mason Vye | FTP, UUE | 56K | n/c
271/140 @ Tom Barstow | UUE,FTP | T1 | n/c
280/169 | Brian Greenstreet | FTP | 33.6 | $2mo.
342/3 @ Richard Dodsworth | BinkP,FTP | 128K+ | n/c
395/670 | Arthur Stark | BinkD,FTP | 128k | n/c
396/1 @ John Souvestre | FTP,VMoT | T1,10 | $5/mo
396/45 | Marc Lewis | UUE | 33.6 | $26/yr
2604/104 @ Jim Mclaughlin | FTP,VMoT,UUE | 33.6 | $1mo
2613/404 @ David Moufarrege | BinkP,FTP,VMoT | 128k+,!| n/c
2624/306 @ David Calafrancesco | VMoT | 33.6 | n/c
3613/2 @ jyates@bsdi.ldl.net | UUE | 28.8 | n/c
3632/84 | Robert Todd |FTP,VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 57.6k | n/c
3639/93 @ Ross Cassell | FTP, BinkP |128K+,!| n/c
3651/9 @ Jerry Gause | FTP,VMoT | 33.6 | $3/$6
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 2 |
20/11 | Henrik Lindhe | BinkP | ??? | n/c
31/1 | Gabriel Plutzar | BinkP | T1+ | n/c
203/600 | Mikael Karlsson | UUE | 64k | n/c
221/360 @ Tommi Koivula | BinkP,UUE | ??? | n/c
236/205 @ Michael Kaaber | BinkP | ??? | n/c
246/2098 | Volker Imre | BinkP | ??? | n/c
284/800 @ Jeroen VanDeLeur | FTP,UUE | 64k | n/c
292/626 | Filip Ruymen | Binkp, UUE | 128K+ | n/c
292/2003 | Eric Vaneberck | BinkP | 768k | n/c
301/1 | Peter Witschi | BinkP | 768k | n/c
332/807 | Roberto Mascolo | BinkP | ??? | n/c
335/535 @ Mario Mure | BinkP,VMot,UUE | 64k | n/c
335/610 | Gino Lucrezi | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
344/201 | Julio Garcia | BinkP | ??? | n/c
346/3 @ Carlos Navarro | UUE | ??? | n/c
382/100 | Sinisa Burina | BinkP | ??? | n/c
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 22 31 Jan 2000
406/555 | Ofir Michaeli & | BinkP | ??? | n/c
406/555 | Marius Kaizerman | BinkP | ??? | n/c
423/81 | Milos Bajer | BinkP | ??? | n/c
464/4077 | Serguei Trouchelle| UUE | 19.2 | n/c
465/204 | Va Milushnikov | BinkP | 33.6k | n/c
469/84 | Max Masyutin | VMoT | 256k | n/c
480/112 | Adam Sarapata| FTP, VMoT, UUE,BinkP| 128k | n/c
2411/413 @ Dennis Dittrich | UUE,BinkP | 64k | n/c
2446/301 | Lothar Behet | BinkP,VMoT,UUE,FTP | 64K | n/c
2474/275 | Christian Emig | UUE | 64k | unkn
5030/115 | Andrey Podkolzin | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5100/8 | Egons Bush | BinkP | ??? | n/c
5020/1159 | Gennady Kudryashoff | UUE | 33.6 | n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 3
633/260 @ Malcolm Miles | FTP,BinkP | 64K | n/c
640/954 | Rick Van Ruth | FTP,VMot,UUE,BinkP| 56K| n/c
774/605 @ Barry Blackford|BinkP,VMoT:10023,ifcico,FTP |33.6| n/c
--------------------------------------------------------------
Zone 4
905/100 | Fabian Gervan | VMoT,UUE,BinkP | 128k | n/c
902/18 | Javier Tejedor | UUE | 33,6 | n/c
--
* FTP = Internet File Transfer Protocol
* VMoT = Virtual Mailer over Telnet (various)
* UUE = uuencode<->email type transfers
* BinkP = front end mailer for TCPIP networks
----------------------------------------------
Fidonet oriented news servers
news.osirusoft.com
news.tardis.net
Fidonet oriented chat rooms.
room #fidonet 5PM (PDT 11AM GMT) Sundays
irc.isonline.com
irc.killaz-r-us.com
irc.korombos.org
----------------------------------------------
Please send updates, corrections and suggestions to
Joe Jared, 1:103/301, joejared@osirusoft.com, and
complaints to jarhead@osirusoft.com .
-----------------------------------------------------------------
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 23 31 Jan 2000
=================================================================
FIDONEWS INFO
=================================================================
Masthead
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- FIDONEWS STAFF - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Editor: Douglas Myers, 1:270/720, DougM@paonline.com |
| Webmaster: Jim Barchuk, jb@fidonews.org |
| Columnist: Joe Jared, 1:103/0, jarhead@osirusoft.com |
| (Fido Via Internet Hubs column) |
| Columnist: Warren D. Bonner, 1:103/401, wdbonner@pacbell.net |
| (Warren uses the pen name "Ol'WDB") |
| Humor: Roy Reed, rcreed@juno.com |
| Features: Frank Vest, 1:124/6308.1 |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- - EDITORS EMERITI - -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Tom Jennings, Thom Henderson, Dale Lovell, Vince |
| Perriello, Tim Pozar, Sylvia Maxwell, Donald Tees, |
| Christopher Baker, Zorch Frezberg, Henk Wolsink |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
"Fido", "FidoNet" and the dog-with-diskette are U.S. registered
trademarks of Tom Jennings, P.O. Box 410923, San Francisco, CA
94141, and are used with permission.
Fidonews is published weekly by and for the members of Fidonet.
Fidonews is Copyright (C) 2000 by Douglas Myers, though authors
retain rights to their contributed articles. Opinion expressed by
the authors is strictly their own. Noncommercial duplication and
distribution within Fidonet is encouraged. Authors are encouraged
to send their articles in ASCII text to Douglas Myers at one of his
addresses above.
The weekly edition of Fidonews is distributed through the file area
FIDONEWS, and is published as echomail in the echo FIDONEWS. These
sources are normally available through your Network Coordinator.
The current and past issues are also available from the following
sources:
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- - FIDONEWS AVAILABILITY - -- -- -- -- -- -- +
| |
| Freq FIDONEWS @ 1:270/720, 1:140/1, or 1:396/1 |
| ftp://ftp.sstar.com/fidonet/fnews/ |
| ftp://ftp.nwstar.com/fidonet/fidonews/ |
| http://www.fidonews.org |
| email subscription: majordomo@fidonews.org |
| (subject: help body: list) |
| ftp mail: ftpmail@fidonews.org (subject: help) |
| |
+ -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- +
FIDONEWS 17-05 Page 24 31 Jan 2000
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Fidonews Index for 2000 (so far)
Included in the Fidonews archive with this issue are Index files for
1998 and 1999. They're a little too big to be included in the
Snooze itself, so I've included the index generated for the year
2000 so far... as a sample. Note that the second issue of Fidonews
this year was incorrectly labeled Volume 18.
Vol # Date Section Title
~~~ ~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~~
17 1 03-Jan-00 EDITORIAL Broken Filebone
17 1 03-Jan-00 EDITORIAL My Thoughts on Fidonet
17 1 03-Jan-00 ARTICLES Are They Really Gone?
17 1 03-Jan-00 COLUMNS Fidonet-related sites
17 1 03-Jan-00 COLUMNS Ol'WDB: Mathematical Explanation
17 1 03-Jan-00 HUMOR Ten Commandments
17 1 03-Jan-00 HUMOR Surgery
17 1 03-Jan-00 COMIX Cow-lliope in the Circus Parade
17 1 03-Jan-00 ADS It's a Web Page
17 1 03-Jan-00 ABOUT_NEWS Masthead
18 2 10-Jan-00 EDITORIAL Every Thousand Years
18 2 10-Jan-00 COLUMNS Fidonet-related sites
18 2 10-Jan-00 COLUMNS Ol'WDB visits NASA Lab for you
18 2 10-Jan-00 HUMOR Monkey Management
18 2 10-Jan-00 HUMOR Frog Noise
18 2 10-Jan-00 COMIX Cow Circus: The Flying Cowlendas
18 2 10-Jan-00 ABOUT_NEWS Masthead
17 3 17-Jan-00 EDITORIAL Is the Doggie Dead?
17 3 17-Jan-00 LETTERS Fidonews: cut back Volume
17 3 17-Jan-00 ARTICLES The Sad State of Today's Fidonet
17 3 17-Jan-00 COLUMNS ECHO TALK - Excuses
17 3 17-Jan-00 COLUMNS Fidonet-related sites
17 3 17-Jan-00 COLUMNS Friends@Fidonet
17 3 17-Jan-00 HUMOR Jesus and Moses
17 3 17-Jan-00 HUMOR Clinton's Pigs
17 3 17-Jan-00 COMIX Cow Circus: Tightrope Walking
17 3 17-Jan-00 ABOUT_NEWS Masthead
17 4 24-Jan-00 EDITORIAL Bullies
17 4 24-Jan-00 LETTERS Who's Out There Lurking?
17 4 24-Jan-00 LETTERS Why Not Cockroaches?
17 4 24-Jan-00 ARTICLES THE BULLIES OF FIDONET
17 4 24-Jan-00 ARTICLES What are ya gonna do?!?
17 4 24-Jan-00 COLUMNS Ol'WDB: Makes you wonder...
17 4 24-Jan-00 HUMOR Boy Becomes SomeBody
17 4 24-Jan-00 COMIX Cow Circus: Cow Balancing on Ball
17 4 24-Jan-00 INTERNET Fidonet-related sites
17 4 24-Jan-00 ABOUT_NEWS Masthead
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Reference in New Issue Copy Permalink