676 lines
26 KiB
Plaintext
676 lines
26 KiB
Plaintext
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AppleLink
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APPLE II DEVELOPMENT FORUM CONFERENCE LOG
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February 28, 1989 10:00 p.m. Eastern Time
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Topic: Developer Support Issues
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Forum Leader: James Luther (AFL Jim)
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JSchober Ugh... and why are they CONFERENCE rooms??
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AFL Marty hi tim
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AFA Parik Alink updated its software today...
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THE GIBBER has to go up soon...
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AFA Parik some new features. like a HELP in downloads, and also a "MORE..."
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instead
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AFA Parik of that !#*$#* continue button.
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AFA Parik Hi Dopper.
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Dopper HI ALL
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AFA Gary J Yeah, Parik. I like the "More..." instead of "Continue"
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THE GIBBER I DID
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JSchober hehehehe... Yeah, I saw the changes, Parik. Anything else besides
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those?
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AFL TimB Hey, I haven't seen the changes yet!!
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AFL Marty HI TIM
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JSchober You did?? When??
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AFL TimB :)
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JSchober ;)
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AFL TimB Anyone able to help with a TML Pascal question??????
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AFA Parik Hello Matt.
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AFA Gary J Hi Matt.
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AFA Parik Hi Tim & John.
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Matt DTS hello (brb)
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AFL TimB Last time to ask. Anyone here know TML Pascal Speech toolkit?
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AFA John Evening everyone..
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AFA Parik I've seen it Tim!
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JSchober It's been a LONNNG time, Tim... :|
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JSchober Hi, John.
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AFA Parik It's a bunch of user tools that you use to make speech. Wait,
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I've got it
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AFA Parik laying around here SOMEWHERE...
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BRCCMAIL Hi Everyone
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JSchober Rehi John.
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AFL Marty You should stick to BASIC, Tim :)
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THE GIBBER Modem droped me again....
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AFA Parik Hi BRCC & John.
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JSchober Hi Jim! Hi Oli!
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AFA Gary J Hi Jim.
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AFA Parik Wow, the first disk I pick out of the box its TML Speech
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Toolkit...
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AFL TimB Using the Say command, (from Speechintf) from a GS environemnt/
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I'm having...
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AFL TimB problems.
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AFL Jim Howdy
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AFA Parik Hi Jim.
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JSchober Hi, Etmusta.
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AFL Marty Yeah.... Tim's GS won't speak with a British accent :))
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AFL TimB :)
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AFL Jim BRB
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JSchober LOL Marty...
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AFA Parik Did you put TOOL050, TOOL051, and TOOL052 in the tools
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subdirectory?
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AFA Parik of your boot disk?
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AFA Gary J test
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AFL Marty <can you say "bums"... I knew you could :)>
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THE GIBBER "bums"
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AFL TimB Yup, that's not the problem, it won't compile. It behaves as if
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its not ...
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AFL Marty sure
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AFL TimB accessing the Speechintf module.
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JSchober Did you remember including the proper USES Speechintf?
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AFL TimB I cut and pasted the code from Plaintalk, a plain vanilla talking
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program.
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AFA Parik There goes Jim...
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AFA John Well, I guess your out-of-luck then! :)
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Matt DTS talk about slow nodes, Parik!
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JSchober Jim went off to get another node, I think...
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AFA Gary J Jim went for a faster node.
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THE GIBBER "And your little node, too :)
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AFA Parik :)
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AFA John your = you're
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AFA Parik This is ridiculous...
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AFL TimB rehi Jim
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Matt DTS No, this is AppleLink. But that's not important right now.
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JSchober rehi Jim!
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AFA Gary J Any better? :)
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AFL Jim This one may be even slower....
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Matt DTS Jim: Try it ONE MORE TIME then go on with things. We're polite.
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We'll wait.
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AFL Jim OK, let's get started... if it looks like I'm not here, just
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remember that
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AFL Jim my signal is being bounced off Mars.
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AFA Parik Mine's being bounced off Dom De Louis...
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AFL TimB :X
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AFL Jim Welcome to the Apple II Development Forum. Tonight there is no
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scheduled topic,
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JSchober Hi Floyd!
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AFL Jim so we're going to talk about developer support issues.
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Matt DTS We are. Truly.
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AFA Parik Will it cost us any extra money? :)
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AFL TimB :)
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AFL Floyd Hi all.
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THE GIBBER Wait.... I have my visa and a bank loan :)
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JSchober $600, Parik, that's all...
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AFL Jim Floyd: we _were_ going to have an auditorium event, but it was
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canceled.
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Whistles Hello there?
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JSchober Hi, Whistles.
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AFL Marty You're outta luck with $2.38 Joe :)
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AFL Jim Matt and I would like to find out what you think about a few ideas
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that are
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Dave Lyons Is that aud event rescheduled, by the way?
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JSchober I know, that's why I'm not a developer anymore... yo Vince!
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AFL Jim being tossed around in Apple Developer Technical Support.
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Whistles Jim how's the weather on the coast, You left KC just in time!
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AFA Parik keep going...
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AFL Jim I might be, Dave - it hasn't been yet.
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AFL Jim Matt, would you like to start out?
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Matt DTS No. Go ahead.
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AFL Jim (I=It)
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AFL Jim Hmmm.. you know more about what was said last night...
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Matt DTS But I don't want to start, and you *did* ask.
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Matt DTS (It's such fun to annoy Jim like this.)
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AFL Jim Should I order him?
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AFL Jim :)
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFL Vince now boys..........
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AFA Parik It must be FUN working with Matt...:)
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Coach101 Try tossing a coin fellas
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AFL TimB GA Jim
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AFA Gary J Go Matt!
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JSchober LOL... :)
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AFL Marty ----====$
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AFL Jim Besides... you can type faster, Matt
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Matt DTS Oh, all right <geez Louise>...
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JSchober (hey, Marty, if you're going to throw money, throw it this
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way....>
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Matt DTS Realizing that Apple II AppleLink - Apple Edition (that's the one
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we're not...
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AFA Parik LOL...//roll for it....:)
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Matt DTS ...using) is, in the words of David Szetela, "unconscionably
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bad"...
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Matt DTS ...we in Developer Services (and Apple II DTS in particular) are
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exploring...
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Matt DTS ...alternative ways of supporting the developer community
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on-line.
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Matt DTS This would probably mean accepting AIIDTS E-mails on services
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other than...
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Matt DTS ...AppleLink Apple Edition and MCI Mail, and could go so far as
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to...
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AFA Parik heh, the DTS BBS...
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THE GIBBER lol
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Matt DTS ...duplicate the entire Developer Services folder (a few megs of
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information)..
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Matt DTS ...from AppleLink Apple Edition to another service. The first
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question is:
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Matt DTS What do you all think of expanding to AppleLink Personal
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Edition?
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HiddenLine !
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AFA Parik !
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JSchober ()()()()() <=== do it Carson style... :)
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THE GIBBER !
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AFL Vince GO FOR IT!
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Dave Lyons Go for it!
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Matt DTS (we fully well realize this may be a biased audience.)
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AFL Floyd Yeah!
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THE GIBBER Go Fer it, Dude
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JSchober Biased? US?? Nahhhh...
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AFL Vince Easier operation, and cheeper daytime access... :)
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Matt DTS (The GEnie crowd last night didn't seem to like the idea at
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all.)
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HiddenLine I think it's a splendid idea!:)))))))))))))
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Whistles tell us more?
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Dave Lyons :) Nahhhh....
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Matt DTS Jim - I suggest protocol so you can get everyone's comments.
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(Sorry, but...
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THE GIBBER I don't see why the Genie Crowd didn't like it.........:)
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Matt DTS ...I don't want anyone lost.)
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AFL Jim OK, WE'll use protocol.
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AFA Gary J Q = (HiddenLine, Parik, Gibber)
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AFL Jim HiddenLine, a comment? GA
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HiddenLine I really like the idea, when I talked to Jim this afternoon, he
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mentioned the
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HiddenLine idea, and at first I was doubtful, but comparing this software to
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the ALAE
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AFL TimB ?
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HiddenLine software will make this system a prime target for everyone who
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develops on
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AFA Gary J Q = (Hiddenline, Parik, Gibber), Tim
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HiddenLine Apples! It will bring better support than ever before... IMHO...
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GA
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AFL Jim Parik, you're up.. GA
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AFA Parik I think its a great idea, maybe a little unfair to the other
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services though.
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AFA Parik but who said life's fair. Would it be easier to do that or to
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rewrite the
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AFA Parik interface/modem updates on the APAE software? ga
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AFA Parik (you are after all the best programmers for the Apple :)
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AFL Jim I don't think the APAE software will be rewritten...
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Matt DTS Let's start by listing the evils of the Apple Edition software:
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AFA Gary J Neither will the ALAE software :)
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HiddenLine (OH BOY!!!:))
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AFA Parik sorry, not enough time today Matt. :)
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Matt DTS 1. It's in Pascal. It can only access 3.5 and 5.25" drives, and
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the first...
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Matt DTS ...drive always has to contain the program disk.
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Matt DTS 2. It doesn't use clocks or clock cards.
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AFA Gary J Q = (Gibber), Tim
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Matt DTS 3. It saves AppleWorks files that fall apart if you type in
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them.
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Matt DTS 4. It can only handle 15K or less memos and messages.
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Matt DTS 5. It only transfers AppleWorks disk files.
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Matt DTS 6. It barely supports non-Apple equipment (modems, interfaces,
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etc.)
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Matt DTS 7. It's just basically depressing to use.
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Matt DTS (that's it.) Making something useful and good out of it could
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add...
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Matt DTS ...20 years to some poor soul's life, where ALPE is already useful
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and good.
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AFA Parik sounds like a plan then to me...
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Matt DTS And the time to rewrite it, test it and implement it could be over
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a year.
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AFL Jim John, you're back, so GA
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Matt DTS I think letting it die is a noble thing.
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AFA Gary J Q = (Gibber), Tim
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THE GIBBER Geez....Got dumped again :( 5th time tonight
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Matt DTS It's a Sign.
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AFL Jim GA Gib
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THE GIBBER I like the idea of more developer support on applelink Pe... if
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DOES happen
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THE GIBBER What sorts of support are we talking... The folders and all the
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rest and
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THE GIBBER Hopefully ONLINE ordering??????
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THE GIBBER ga
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Coach101 ?
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Matt DTS Unknown. We're just soliciting opinions at this point.
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Matt DTS On-line ordering of developer hardware is something I don't really
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expect...
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JSchober (sheesh, Matt, didn't you see the NO SOLICITING sign when you
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walked in??)
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Matt DTS ...ever to see. Online APDA ordering is certainly possible if not
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probable.
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AFA Gary J Q = Tim, Coach
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AFA Parik :) Joe
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AFL Jim GA Tim
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AFL TimB What did the GEnie users dislike about the idea? :)
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AFA Gary J :)
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Matt DTS There's a fear (expressed by me) that if we can't pull it ALL
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off...
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Matt DTS ...in other words, if we can't get the entire Developer Services
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BB from...
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Matt DTS ...AppleLink Apple Edition duplicated anywhere else, that the
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Apple II Devs...
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Matt DTS ...could get a feeling of "second-class citizenship".
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AFA Parik you can do it...just think about the little train that could...
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Matt DTS (Also, a key factor is some way for AppleLink Apple Edition and
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AppleLink PE...
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JSchober :)
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Matt DTS ...to have a mail interface, so that Developers on here could
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contact anyone...
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AFA Gary J Q = Coach
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Matt DTS ...at Apple through E-mail. That's a primary advantage of
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AppleLink which...
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AFL Vince Interlink for Quantum would solve that.
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Matt DTS ...would need to happen for us to go through with this.) GA
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AFL TimB I suspect that it is unlikely that AE and PE will be
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interconnected if that's..
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AFL TimB what you're thinking about.
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Matt DTS I don't know about "interconnected" - I'd settle for a mail
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gateway.
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Matt DTS If we can duplicate the board and transport the mail, we've got it
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down.
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AFL Jim Coach, GA
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Coach101 With everyone on ALPE, 1) would that be too much more traffic
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for
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Coach101 ALPE (it is not hte fastest now) and 2) how would you distinguish
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between
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AFL Vince !
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Coach101 CDs (under their new name) and others (two citizenship classes on
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ALPE?) GA
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Matt DTS Jim - you take this one.
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AFA Gary J Q = Coach (Vince)
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AFL Jim I think Quantum is prepared for a much heaver load than what we
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have now.
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AFL TimB :)
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Matt DTS Heave...HO! Heaver...HOR!e
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AFA Gary J :)
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AFL Jim I'm not sure what can be done to identify paying from non-paying
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developers,
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AFA Parik !
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AFL Jim but I'm sure something would be done.
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AFL Jim Vince, a comment?
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AFL Jim ga
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AFA Gary J Q = Coach (Vince, Parik)
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AFL Vince One benifit is that the overall cost would be cheeper since access
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time on ALPE's networks is
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AFL Vince cheeper than GEISCO. Also, since most developers work during the
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day, I dont think system load would
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AFL Vince be a problem here. It's pretty fast during the day most of the
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time.
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AFL Vince GA
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AFA Parik You could give paying developers a free ALPE account and have a
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identifying
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AFA Parik prefix (ie, DEV) which only developers can use. [Quantum can
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reserve letter
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AFA Parik combos in a name] GA
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AFL Vince Why identify the accounts at all. Most companies would benifit by
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using a secondary name for
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AFL Vince marketing purposes.
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AFL Marty !
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AFA Parik For official questions though...
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AFL Vince They're not here to answer questions, Parik. They're here to ask
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them.. :)
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AFA Parik exactly :)
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AFL Jim Marty, GA
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AFA Gary J Q = Vince (Marty)
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AFL Marty You identify accounts for the purpose of maintaining an access
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list....
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AFL Marty if message boards can be restricted to those appearing on an
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access list...
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AFL Marty (they can), so can an Email gateway. GA
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AFL Vince valid point
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AFA Parik very.
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AFL Jim Anyone have any more comments?
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AFL TimB That's why they pay Marty the big bucks!
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AFL Vince it also solves any problems relating to keeping a message base
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private... prices, etc..
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AFL Marty ha!
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AFA Parik :)
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AFA Parik everyone's node die?
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AFL Vince I think ALPE can handle it... the question is will it alienate the
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other services?
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AFL Jim OK, I'd like to get some other opinions. What would you like to
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see Apple II
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Coach101 !
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AFL Marty !
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THE GIBBER No....My node is just stuffed up ;)
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AFA Gary J Q = Vince (Coach, Marty)
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AFL Jim DTS supply on ALPE and other information services that we aren't
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supplying now
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AFL Jim IF this WERE NOT to take place? (How can we help?)
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AFA Parik free food, parties, & women for starters...
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons !
|
||
|
|
JSchober LOL
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince Jim... how much support is DTS planning to give to non
|
||
|
|
Partner/Associate members?
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine !
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty (not necessarily in that order)
|
||
|
|
AFA Parik yup :)
|
||
|
|
Coach101 Who sets Parik's priorities?
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = Jim (Dave, HiddenLine), Vince (Coach, Marty)
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons I want The Information Exchange in Apple II-readable format.
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim We plan on putting out lots of Tech Notes and Source Code
|
||
|
|
Samples.
|
||
|
|
AFA Parik Whats wrong with the binder version Dave?
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Not MPW
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim We're also looking into a question and answer database.
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim PROTOCOL!
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim Dave, GA
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons The problem is the Binder has no "Find" command. :)
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons And it takes up shelf space.
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons (ga)
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = Jim (Dave, HiddenLine), Vince (Coach, Marty)
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim HiddenLine, GA
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine I think Dave has hit the nail right on the head with his
|
||
|
|
Information Exchange
|
||
|
|
AFL TimB {_}-------
|
||
|
|
AFL TimB T
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine comment.. to add mine... I think if AIIDTS doesn't come to
|
||
|
|
AppleLink Pe.. the
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine next best thing would be to allow certified developers that are on
|
||
|
|
AppleLink
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = Jim (HiddenLine), Vince (Coach)
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine the ability to save some money by answering techincal questions
|
||
|
|
here.. I...
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine realize that you guys have your hands full keeping up with all the
|
||
|
|
mail you
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine get now, but the name of the game is support-regardless of where
|
||
|
|
the question
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine comes from... GA
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim OK, Vince GA
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince I think this queue entry was in relation to an earlier comment
|
||
|
|
about this move possibly alienating
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince the other services... wondering your opinion more than anything
|
||
|
|
else. GA
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty !
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = Vince (Coach, Marty)
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim My opinion: the more places we support, the better off the
|
||
|
|
developer community
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim will be, BUT we in DTS have to be able to keep up with the
|
||
|
|
resources we
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim currently have.
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim Coach, ga
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons !
|
||
|
|
Coach101 As for alienating the other networks, if Apple has to pick
|
||
|
|
Coach101 a primary network to provide support via, it would seem
|
||
|
|
appropriate
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = Vince (Coach, Marty, Dave)
|
||
|
|
Coach101 that it be AL? . The fewer "services" that DTS has to scan to
|
||
|
|
find
|
||
|
|
Coach101 wquestions the less time will be spent getting in and out of
|
||
|
|
Coach101 networks and data bases! In general, the whole idea sounds like
|
||
|
|
it
|
||
|
|
Coach101 would benefit all concerned (except those with other network
|
||
|
|
accesses
|
||
|
|
Coach101 that have not yet gotten to ALPE). A positive move in my
|
||
|
|
opinion.. GA
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim Marty, GA
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty My first reaction was "who cares?"... I am not being completely
|
||
|
|
frivolous...
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty in saying this however...
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = Vince (Marty, Dave)
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince (Agree, Coach)
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty where else would anyone expect to find developer support if not on
|
||
|
|
the...
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty system which bears Apple's name and the AppleLink logo?... also
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty there is some precedent for doing something like this... witness
|
||
|
|
the ...
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty embracing of ByteWorks (via APW) as an example...
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty Of course, the best of all possible alternatives would be to
|
||
|
|
have
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty DTS available on all the major services. GA
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim Dave, GA
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Q = Vince (Dave)
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons I think it'd be nice for DTS to accept official questions _from
|
||
|
|
the same
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons people that ask them now_. That wouldn't increate the load on DTS
|
||
|
|
much.
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons (ga)
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons (I mean CDs...the people that can ask official questions now.)
|
||
|
|
Matt DTS We know what that meant, but what the heck is "increate"?
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim That's what I thought you meant, Dave.
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince increased typed in dracoease
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Oh, "increate" has something to do with Greece, I think.
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J LOL!
|
||
|
|
Matt DTS ugh>
|
||
|
|
Guy Rice :)
|
||
|
|
Matt DTS Is that trailer right?
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim Pay no attention to the BANNER on your screen....
|
||
|
|
AFA Parik :)
|
||
|
|
Guy Rice I thought those were worms... :)
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim Wyme
|
||
|
|
Matt DTS Nearly out of time, gang.
|
||
|
|
JSchober Wrym... ;)
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Seems like the organizers of events should have the ability to
|
||
|
|
send out
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons correct wyrms real-time, instead of whatever the procedure is now.
|
||
|
|
Ick.
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince What more do you need to know, Matt?
|
||
|
|
Matt DTS I don't need any more; I was just pointing out that we're almost
|
||
|
|
done.
|
||
|
|
JSchober I think Cust Rep can change 'em on the fly if a person with
|
||
|
|
sufficient ...
|
||
|
|
JSchober authority requests it... I =think=...
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince ah ha.. :)
|
||
|
|
HeckOfAGuy The wyrms are programed in advance and are difficult to change
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Oh Heck!
|
||
|
|
AFA Parik :)
|
||
|
|
JSchober (well, so much for my genius... %)
|
||
|
|
HeckOfAGuy Hi Gary
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim OK, thanks for the comments.
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty (guess you should find someone difficult to change it then :)
|
||
|
|
HeckOfAGuy :)
|
||
|
|
AFA Parik I think the best thing would be for DTS to fly people to Cupertino
|
||
|
|
and let
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim Does anyone have any pressing programming questions tonight that
|
||
|
|
they'd like
|
||
|
|
AFA Parik them ask questions themselves face to face...
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim to discuss?
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons That shouldn't be too hard around here....
|
||
|
|
Guy Rice :)
|
||
|
|
JSchober LOL Parik
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Yes, Parik. Right :)
|
||
|
|
HeckOfAGuy programming questions in a Dev forum?
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince Why wont my GS go fast?
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince :)
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty I'd rather have the free women, Parik :)
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons (Finding difficult people shouldn't be too had, I mean.)
|
||
|
|
Matt DTS Slow operator. Next question?
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim Right, HeckOf...
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince :)
|
||
|
|
AFA Parik WHat Marty? You'd rather party with women than with matt & Jim?
|
||
|
|
hehehe
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Vince, that IS a programming question. Switch to assembly.
|
||
|
|
HeckOfAGuy What about you Parik, would you?
|
||
|
|
AFA Parik any day...
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty Tough decision... but yes (and the dumber she is the better :)
|
||
|
|
AFA Parik No offense. :)
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine LOL!
|
||
|
|
Matt DTS Well, barring any pressing needs, I'm gonna bid y'all good
|
||
|
|
night.
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Print manager! Anybody figured out why my little procedure isn't
|
||
|
|
working?
|
||
|
|
JSchober 'Night, Matt. :)
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim Which little procedure?
|
||
|
|
AFA Parik Night Matt.
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine Night, Matt.
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim Later, Matt
|
||
|
|
Coach101 If "she" has system talent, who cares if she programs?
|
||
|
|
Matt DTS I didn't read it. It looked suspiciously high-level to me.
|
||
|
|
G'night.
|
||
|
|
HeckOfAGuy Seeya Matt
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Goodnight, Matt.
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince prestigous?
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons In the Print Manager folder of Apple IIGS Toolbox in Let's
|
||
|
|
Discuss. (I haven't
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons checked it today.)
|
||
|
|
JSchober No, Vince, prestigious.
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim I haven't either.
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince :)
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons I can tell I'm gonna have to add Print Manager data structures to
|
||
|
|
the list of
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons things that Nifty List can dump (with ";").
|
||
|
|
AFL Marty Think I'll go get some prestige :)
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J There weren't any new answers, Dave.
|
||
|
|
AFL Vince Me too, Marty...
|
||
|
|
AFA Parik Bye Marty & Vince...
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine Dave, I have another strange idea for Nifty List..
|
||
|
|
JSchober Night Vince, Marty...
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Shoot, HL!
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine This one is kinda useful..How about the ability to interactively
|
||
|
|
define define
|
||
|
|
JSchober Hi, Mike.
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Howdy, Mike L.
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine got me shaken.. your own data structures... like format the
|
||
|
|
output? Is that
|
||
|
|
AFA Parik Hi Mike!
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine possible?
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Something like that would be nice...are you thinking about data
|
||
|
|
structures that
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons you would dump like the ";" does, for ";W" or ";P" (windows and
|
||
|
|
ports)? Or
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons do you mean something more complicated (recognizing inline
|
||
|
|
parameters for
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons certain subroutine calls, or something I haven't thought of)?
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine Well, something like outputformat=8,4,8.. Where the numbers
|
||
|
|
indicate the
|
||
|
|
Mike Lutz Hi Brccmail, HiddenLine, Floyd, Jim, HeckOfAGuy, Guy Rice, Parik,
|
||
|
|
JSchober...
|
||
|
|
HeckOfAGuy Hi Mike
|
||
|
|
Mike Lutz Dave L., and Gary J!
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine width of a field and all a use does is supply a range of addresses
|
||
|
|
to dump..
|
||
|
|
Guy Rice Hi Mike. :)
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine simple, but I think it would be a good thing to have when I'm
|
||
|
|
looking at my
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine own data. GA
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Hi Mike
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Hmmm...that's a start, but it'd be much more useful if you could
|
||
|
|
specify that
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons some of those 4-byte things were pointers to C-strings or
|
||
|
|
P-strings, or class-1
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons GS/OS strings, or class-1 GS/OS result buffers, or rectangles, or
|
||
|
|
regions...
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons in other words, something powerful enough that the existing ";P"
|
||
|
|
and ";W"
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons dumps would just be built-in templates.
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine Ok.. that's taking it one step further than I thought you would
|
||
|
|
care to go,
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine but if it's possible, I'd like to see it. It really makes looking
|
||
|
|
at dumps
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine easier! Thanks!
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Probably I'll get something like that implemented in the next
|
||
|
|
month or two--I'm
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons making the data file format much more general, and I'm allowing
|
||
|
|
there to be
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons more than one data file. Coming up with a template for data
|
||
|
|
structures is
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons definitely a good idea. I'll also be adding "modules" (people
|
||
|
|
will be able to
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons write their own Nifty List commands, and they'll be able to pick
|
||
|
|
and choose
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons which modules they want to keep in their machine, so they don't
|
||
|
|
waste memory
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Great!
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons with new things I write for it that they don't need). Like Big
|
||
|
|
Brother, which
|
||
|
|
JSchober Neat! Making a terrific program BETTER?? I wanna SEE this...
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons will slow things down a LOT and be used only when you're debugging
|
||
|
|
things.
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine That is FANTASTIC!!!
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons You'll see it! Don't know exactly WHEN, yet!
|
||
|
|
JSchober :))))
|
||
|
|
JSchober That's fine... it sounds terrific!!
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine <-----been dumping a lot, in the past week...
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons By the way, writing things like DIcEd is about 3 times more
|
||
|
|
profitable for me
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons than things like Nifty List. :( On the other hand, I _used_
|
||
|
|
Nifty List to
|
||
|
|
AFL Floyd You should make Nifty List a commercial product once you add all
|
||
|
|
that stuff.
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons help me develop DIcEd.
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim I agree with Floyd.
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Maybe I should...there are other options I'm considering, too,
|
||
|
|
which I suppose
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Me too.
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine Floyd, I agree. And thanks for the stuff you sent me! I
|
||
|
|
appreciate it!
|
||
|
|
AFL Floyd What stuff?
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons I shouldn't bring up until it looks like they could happen.
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine <---Scott... the gimme stuff, and the contacting companies stuff!
|
||
|
|
Really will
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine come in handy!
|
||
|
|
AFL Floyd Oh. I didn't know it was you. ;)
|
||
|
|
JSchober "stuff"... technical terms are wonderful....
|
||
|
|
AFL Floyd Your welcome.
|
||
|
|
AFL Floyd Did ya ever hear the "stuff" skit by George Carlin? Hilarious!
|
||
|
|
JSchober Nope. :(
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine One more little suggestion, Dave... Any thought about making Nifty
|
||
|
|
List..
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine programmable from the command line (ie not through files?)
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Programmable in what way? Do you mean being able to accomplish
|
||
|
|
the same things
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons you can by editing the data files in a text editor, or something
|
||
|
|
more, like
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons a script language?
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons (I _do_ intend to add the ability to evaluate "expression" from
|
||
|
|
the command
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine Kinda like a script language.. would that make it too big and
|
||
|
|
complex?
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons line--this would include arithmetic operators and toolbox
|
||
|
|
calls!)
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons A script language would not necessarily make it bulky...what sorts
|
||
|
|
of things
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons do you want to be able to do?
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine What I mean.. is something like this.. Dumpmemory
|
||
|
|
(range)|format(Handle),..
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim Dave, I'd just like you to add disk support, so I can save what I
|
||
|
|
see.
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine Dumpmemory(range)|Format(special=xxxxxx), etc... things like that
|
||
|
|
...
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine GA
|
||
|
|
JSchober I agree with Jim...
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine Same here..
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim (and fix the screen dump :)
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Jim, you want to be able to redirect output to a text file, or
|
||
|
|
something
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons more complicated than that?
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim What you just said
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Oh! Actually, I forgot to say I've just released Nifty List 2.60;
|
||
|
|
not terribly
|
||
|
|
JSchober Nope, Dave, that would be great... :))
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Where, Dave?
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons exciting, but it _does_ fix the screen dump of inverse/mousetext
|
||
|
|
characters.
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Anything new in it?
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons I said "released," not "uploaded." :-) Some recent DIcEd
|
||
|
|
customers have
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons their disks in the mail w/ NL2.60 on there, and I'll upload it
|
||
|
|
tonight.
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons New features:
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons The ";" command remembers the last option you used, and subsequent
|
||
|
|
";"s (with
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons blanks, end-of-line, or other ";"s after them) default to that
|
||
|
|
option. So
|
||
|
|
AFL Jim (I can finally rid myself of Diversi-Hack)
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons you can go ;;;;; to continue your last hex or ascii dump, or
|
||
|
|
whatever, and
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons you can do things like 5/1000;a;;;; instead of 5/1000;a;a;a;a;a
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons I already said the Apple-H was fixed; the only other additions are
|
||
|
|
to the
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Status command (S): it displays the GET_LEVEL setting under P16
|
||
|
|
or GS/OS;
|
||
|
|
AFL Floyd <Great. I hated doing ;h;h;h;h> ;)
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J Me too!
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons it displays GET_SYS_PREFS and SESSION_STATUS under GS/OS; it
|
||
|
|
displays your
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons ROM version (not too exciting, at least for most of us); and it
|
||
|
|
displays the
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons values of all NON-NULL prefixes from 0 to 31.
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons That's all for 2.60. My to-do list is impressively long, though.
|
||
|
|
:)
|
||
|
|
JSchober Hmmm... sounds good. We gonna get monthly updates or something??
|
||
|
|
:)
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J I like it, Dave. :)
|
||
|
|
Dave Lyons Monthly? We'll see....
|
||
|
|
AFA Gary J heheh
|
||
|
|
HiddenLine Dave, I hope you didn't take my "suggestions" the wrong way..I
|
||
|
|
love Nifty List!
|